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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#51 | Back to Top10-03-2012 02:48:56 PM

gorgeousshutin
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Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1312
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Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

Lurv wrote:
But a crack fic where Kyubey interacts with Akio and/or Anthy could be amusing. emot-tongue

Akio (eyeing Kyubey while coming by Anthy's mini-farm where she keeps her pets): Anthy . . . is that what I think it is?
Anthy (narrow-eyed smile):  Yes, brother . . . I've found just the right creature to lay Chu-Chu's eggs for him.


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 3 as of Sep 26, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#52 | Back to Top10-03-2012 03:56:30 PM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

Okay, I lol'd.

Anyway, I really like this fandub of Magia. It's too bad it's just TV size.

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#53 | Back to Top10-04-2012 07:32:10 AM

gpink
Eternal Castellan
Registered: 11-21-2009
Posts: 265

Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

The movie is going to come out in a couple of weeks is anyone planning to see it?

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#54 | Back to Top10-04-2012 01:00:58 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 906

Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

gpink wrote:

The movie is going to come out in a couple of weeks is anyone planning to see it?

I wanted to get tickets in NYC, but it seems I waited too long emot-frown

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#55 | Back to Top10-04-2012 02:40:51 PM

gpink
Eternal Castellan
Registered: 11-21-2009
Posts: 265

Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

Atropos wrote:

gpink wrote:

The movie is going to come out in a couple of weeks is anyone planning to see it?

I wanted to get tickets in NYC, but it seems I waited too long emot-frown

I think they added a second showing for New York City.

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#56 | Back to Top10-05-2012 08:46:54 PM

CausalityStar
Caretaker
From: Idaho
Registered: 09-12-2010
Posts: 215

Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

OnlyInThisLight wrote:

The opening theme is a near total lie as far as presentation goes.  There isn't even a kitty in the show.  emot-mad  Stupid OP kitty.

No, there isn't a kitty in the show, but the one of the drama CDs explains the purpose of the kitty. http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Amy

Obviously the link contains spoilers. I have seen some videos on youtube that are subtitled versions of the drama CDs, but I haven't seen anyone do a version for the CD that talks about Amy yet. So right now, I just have to read the summary of what's going on the CD.

By the way, it looks like some people were having trouble watching this show. You can watch it for free and legally on crunchyroll.com

You don't even have to watch ads for the videos if you use either Firefox or Google Chrome and you have the little ad-blocker add-on installed. (And even without it, I think they only make you watch two ads maximum.) If you want to watch the video in super high Blue-Ray quality, you do need a membership at crunchyroll. However, their standard definition is even better than when I get on my TV and it's most likely better than if you're watching the video on some pirate website.

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#57 | Back to Top10-06-2012 01:58:00 PM

OnlyInThisLight
KING OF ALL DUCKS
Registered: 01-15-2008
Posts: 4411

Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

Yeah, crunchyroll's standard quality is pretty good.

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#58 | Back to Top10-08-2012 09:01:38 AM

Like_Autumn
Network Ninja
Registered: 07-18-2007
Posts: 639
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Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

I'm not reading this thread yet until I finish the series, but all I can say is I LOVE IT. I started watching it because of a review by JesuOtaku on TGWTG.com. Dark subversion? Tragedy? Magical girls? It sounded like another wonderful anime in the vein of SKU. I'm on episode 6 at the moment. I'll be sure to post again once I'm finished with the series.

A large part of my love is the music. I've listened to the full version of Magia so many times in the past day. I don't listen to much Jpop, but that song is fantastic. All of the music is beautiful, too.


Number 1 Shadow Girl Fan

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#59 | Back to Top10-08-2012 09:21:41 AM

OnlyInThisLight
KING OF ALL DUCKS
Registered: 01-15-2008
Posts: 4411

Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

Sometimes I forget how awesome it is the JO does spoiler free reviews.  Some wouldn't care, because the show has been popular for a good amount of time and video reviews are hard to keep spoiler free, especially because JO tries to talk about something unique or un-tread by previous reviewers.  I was able to use her review to convince another friend of mine to give it a shot.

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#60 | Back to Top10-08-2012 08:36:24 PM

gorgeousshutin
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Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1312
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Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

Like Autumn:
Tragedy? Magical girls? It sounded like another wonderful anime in the vein of SKU.

It is watching PMMM that makes me realize just how little SKU resembles a "magical girl show", despite it being one by strict technical definitions.  This is probably why I can enjoy SKU so much: it is, to me, a thought provoking supernatural fantasy.


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 3 as of Sep 26, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#61 | Back to Top10-09-2012 09:14:56 AM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

I don't much think of SKU as a magical girl anime myself, although it kinda is. When I think magical girl, I think of cute/pretty witches, and... um.

Not that all the witches in Madoka are cute. emot-biggrin

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#62 | Back to Top10-09-2012 10:14:27 AM

gorgeousshutin
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Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

On top of having mature-minded dialogues as befitting of real-life 14 yr old Asian females, SKU's "magical girls" - Utena and Anthy - both display "mannerisms" that are not stereotypically "magical girl like".  On top of that, the transformation stock footage radiates mystic occult vibes instead of starry cuteness.  SKU truly is as revolutionary for its genre as its title suggests.


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 3 as of Sep 26, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#63 | Back to Top10-09-2012 10:49:35 AM

CausalityStar
Caretaker
From: Idaho
Registered: 09-12-2010
Posts: 215

Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

I used to just think of cutsey stuff when it came to magical girl anime, but SKU and PMMM have made me change my mind. Sure, a lot of stuff in the genre is cutsey stuff, but that doesn't mean that all of it is. Even Sailor Moon had its dark moments. (Or at least if you watched the Japanese version and not the censored to hell English dub.)

I actually got my mom to watch PMMM with me last December and even though I told her that it had a dark storyline, she thought it was going to be mostly cutsey. So, I guess she was a little surprised at how it turned out. My mom also liked Madoka's parents a lot, especially because Madoka's mom is kind of like her.

I wish I could get my dad to watch the series with me, but he refuses to watch past the first episode. Right now I'm trying to get some of my friends to watch the series with me, but we're always busy with school.

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#64 | Back to Top10-09-2012 11:54:54 AM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

Welll, Utena comes across as more knight-like than anything to me, but that might be true for some other magical girls too.

I've been trying to get some of my friends into Madoka, but I'm not sure how successful I've been... at least they seem to like the music, though. emot-biggrin

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#65 | Back to Top10-09-2012 02:31:55 PM

Dognog
Friend, Perhaps
From: TN
Registered: 06-06-2011
Posts: 333

Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

Got two of my little sisters to watch it, now I just gotta get Toe to finish it. We've watched I think 5 episodes, but every time I ask if she wants to finish it she says no because she's into other stuff right now emot-tongue

My parents don't wanna watch anime with me for some reason, but Mom recognizes Madoka now from my toy being everywhere... She was on the computer the other day and then she said, "Meduka!" but I don't know what she was doing on there!

Last edited by Dognog (10-09-2012 02:32:17 PM)


"DOGNOG: He's got a fiancee, hoes, and freaks with his sister. He is the original PIMP."

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#66 | Back to Top10-10-2012 06:41:40 PM

Like_Autumn
Network Ninja
Registered: 07-18-2007
Posts: 639
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Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

I finished the series today.

OH. MY. GOD. emot-aaa

It's too bad that it was only 12 episodes because the characters and relationships could have been developed even more if it had been longer. Even so, I found myself becoming so emotionally invested in the characters and story. The action sequences were superb, and I felt like the female characters were treated with respect and written in a complex and detailed manner that wasn't "moe" or stereotypical. The animation could be gorgeous and powerful at times. I wasn't bothered by the character designs at all. I loved the look of each magical girl emot-keke I loved the sequence where Sayaka loses it against Elsa Maria and only her silhouette is seen. I also loved Homura's character design and her evocative black hair.

There were a few rushed areas, such as Kyoko's attitude toward Sayaka changing rather suddenly, but overall I found it easy to relate to the characters. Mood-wise, the show oddly enough reminded me of Code Geass. I found a similar tense subtext between Homura and Madoka at times, and Sayaka reminds me of Suzaku. The witches weren't just generic opponents but carried a deep and tragic meaning. I like how every death is portrayed realistically and isn't brushed off.

And can I just say that I bawled between episodes 10 and 12? I had found it very sad up until that point, what with Sayaka's descent into despair seeming like a metaphor for depression and suicide, but I was broken emotionally by episode 10 and the revelation of what Homura had suffered through to save Madoka. It reminded me of something I would do for a loved one, and I was also insecure and fragile like Homura from the first timeline. Her conversation with Madoka at her home where she confessed everything and hugged Madoka was so emotionally touching and tense. Then episode 12 just made it even more powerful. I was reminded a lot by how Utena tries to save Anthy. It came across as a love story to me. Yuri or not, the relationship between Madoka and Homura is more emotionally moving and complex than most het romances that I've seen in anime.

Because of its short length, Madoka's character wasn't as well-developed as I would have liked. She doesn't have the flaws that Utena does. Though it really didn't bother me because I liked and related to her a lot. I think I have a kindness similar to Madoka, so it isn't entirely unrealistic. I found Homura to be the most engaging and complicated character, though. I felt sympathy for Sayaka but would have preferred to see why she was in love with Kyosuke. It was an example of being told that she loved him rather than shown why.

Overall, though, I loved the story and characters. I was very satisfied with the ending and moved by the characters' relationships with each other. It was fantastical but still felt very real and human somehow. I will definitely add it to my list of favorite anime.

The music was perfect as well!


Number 1 Shadow Girl Fan

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#67 | Back to Top10-18-2012 11:17:25 AM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1312
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Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

I think this news will bring joy to you all:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/20 … r-3rd-film

Ikuhara, Ikuhara . . . you'd better do a good job on Penguinbear (and insert SKU elements in there while you're at it).


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 3 as of Sep 26, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#68 | Back to Top10-18-2012 10:16:38 PM

Dognog
Friend, Perhaps
From: TN
Registered: 06-06-2011
Posts: 333

Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

I am so, so excited about the movie. I am a bit afraid of adding on another show, though... Like what's gonna happen o_o I'm always a bit afraid of sequels and stuff. I guess we'll find out!

(there is a Homura plush on its way to my house emot-dance)


"DOGNOG: He's got a fiancee, hoes, and freaks with his sister. He is the original PIMP."

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#69 | Back to Top10-19-2012 03:33:46 PM

BlackBeforeRed
Acknowledged Smart Person
From: The Nightosphere
Registered: 07-09-2010
Posts: 178

Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

I'm seriously considering driving to NY to watch the movie, I want to see it in theatre that bad. I'm so so soooooo ecstatic that they're making another anime emot-dance the only way I'd be any happier is if Sayaka/Kyoko actually became a thing (keep on dreaming emot-rofl) seriously though, why won't they show it in Toronto emot-mad

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#70 | Back to Top10-19-2012 04:21:34 PM

Raven Nightshade
Someday Shiner
From: Louisiana
Registered: 12-17-2006
Posts: 2916

Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

Dognog wrote:

I am so, so excited about the movie. I am a bit afraid of adding on another show, though... Like what's gonna happen o_o I'm always a bit afraid of sequels and stuff. I guess we'll find out!

Well, I think a new series would be based on the sequels, probably Kazumi Magica or Oriko Magica.


Sometimes I wonder if I'm ever gonna make it home again.
It's so far and out of sight.
I really need someone to talk to and nobody else
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#71 | Back to Top04-02-2013 01:33:28 AM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

People have been telling me for a year that I need to watch Madoka, so today I finally marathoned the show.  And I... well, I liked it.  I mean, in terms of its presentation, the charisma of the writing, and above all the way it inhabits its genre, this is clearly one of the best anime I've seen maybe ever, and it deserves the acclaim it's gotten.  But then you get past that, into characters and especially themes, and I discover that I have reservations about it after all.

Madoka gets compared to SKU a lot.  Personally, it reminded me of the three-way hybrid of Eva, Sailor Moon, and Persona 4, but SKU is the show it gets compared to, plus we've all seen it, so let's use that as a reference point.  Here is what bothers me most about Madoka.  Madoka and SKU share two central themes: the power of miracles and the power of friendship.  In SKU the power of miracles is pretty nebulous and probably illusory.  Utena wins because she rejects the power of miracles, the floating castle and the rest of it, in order to help her friend, even if all she could do was give Anthy a chance to revolutionize her own world.  This is a powerful way to end a show because it makes a powerful statement: miracles are things we have to create for ourselves, and all we can do for a friend is to love them and try to set the stage for them to make their own miracles happen.  It's resonant because it's true.

Spoilers follow.

Madoka is different -- but crucially, it's similar in one respect, which is that miracles are ultimately illusory.  You actually can get a miracle, but it is the monkey's-paw kind of miracle that ultimately backfires, and it creates as much grief as it does hope.  This is a great idea because it means magic has consequences, which is exactly what makes this show such a successful deconstruction of magical girls.  But then look how the show ends.  Unlike Utena, Homura and Madoka each win by finding loopholes in the miracle rulebook.  Time travel can magnify the impact of one person's wish; and then if that person makes exactly the right wish then she can cancel out its negative consequences and also create positive ones.  I thought that letting the protagonists circumvent the rules like this undermined the show's tragedy.  (So you're saying that all those people died or became witches because the magic system doesn't work the way we thought it did, and you actually can get something for nothing, you just have to wish in a different way?  Sucks to be them!) 

If I break it down, I think that fundamentally what's not working is the tension between Madoka accepting or not accepting the contract.  All the force of the narrative compels Madoka to accept the contract.  When so many people sacrifice so much in a story to keep X from happening, then it is a rule of plot that X has to happen if it possibly can, because otherwise it's an anticlimax and it feels hollow.  But all the force of the theme, the theme of the power of miracles, compels Madoka to refuse the contract, because the power of miracles is a phony power that is designed ultimately to perpetuate grief.  There is no good thematic reason for certain miracles to be A-OK.  Thematically, it would be better for Madoka, like Utena, to reject the power of miracles and find another way to help her friends.  So the plot and the theme are at war in the last couple episodes, and the plot wins at the considerable expense of a theme that made the plot powerful in the first place.

As for the power of friendship, it's not so much that I think Madoka compromised itself as that I liked SKU's take better.  In SKU, self-sacrifice is powerful, but it can't save someone by itself.  (Anthy is the most notable of the characters who discover this.)  But in the thematic universe of Madoka, you actually can outright save someone through self-sacrifice.  It doesn't always turn out the way you hoped -- though sometimes it does -- but you can do it.  There's nothing wrong with that theme except that I don't think it's true.

I spent this post criticizing Madoka mostly because you guys have already covered a lot of the things I liked about this show. emot-smile  I like it.  It's a good show.  I laughed and I cried.  But the ending felt false to me, and false in a way that tarnished the brilliance of the genre deconstruction.

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#72 | Back to Top04-02-2013 12:04:47 PM

purplepolecat
Atlantean Singer
From: Vancouver, B.C.
Registered: 03-26-2007
Posts: 570

Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

Homura didn't find a loophole - her wish backfired more than anyone's, and it's entirely possible that Kyubey realized that her actions would magnify Madoka's magical girl potential to insane levels.

I'm guessing that the only reason Madoka was able to pull off the ending is that her power was so great that Kyubey couldn't accurately predict every possible outcome of her actions. He was banking on her wishing for something along the same lines as everyone else, which would have sealed her fate.

I enjoyed that fact that the majority of the show is extremely bleak and cynical. Happiness is a zero-sum game, suffering is a mathematical certainty. Despite this, I felt that the message of the ending, which could have been trite and sugary, was delivered perfectly. When faced with a seemingly impossible situation, don't lose hope.


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#73 | Back to Top04-02-2013 12:14:40 PM

gorgeousshutin
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Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1312
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Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

For me, the reason why I'd rank PMMM a couple notches under SKU, is that I find SKU to be better presented than PMMM - both character-wise and plot-wise.

I've since covered my gripes with PMMM's character presentation upthread – how I find the way the facial expressions and body languages are presented to be less detailed/realistic than what’s in SKU.  However, I don’t think I’ve yet covered my problems with PMMM’s plot presentation.  So, I’ll do so here.

SKU and PMMM are both Shoujo Fantasies; as such, both will contain fantastical elements that deviate from proven reality.  That said, SKU presents the fantasy elements in a way that I find to be more “relevant to real world” than what I’ve seen from PMMM.

This difference can be best demonstrated by how the two shows handle their endings:

SKU – Utena “seemingly, realistically forgotten” by everyone but Akio and Anthy.
None of the Student Council and Black Rose students outright say or do anything to say an “enchantment-amnesia” (as so many fans had insisted happened) took place.  Unlike in Mikage’s case, no buildings/settings changed when she was gone – another strike against the enchantement amnesia theory. There’s even a Shadow Girls Speech alluding to how the cast are processing Utena’s vanishing: “Wasn’t she that so-and-so who use to do what-and-what?  Well, not like it matters.”  Utena is being “forgotten” in such a way that most real life people are forgotten once they change school/work: by being out of sight.  No longer in the here and now, she quickly got put out of most people’s minds, even while the “changes” she’s made on the students still is apparent – much like now Juri’s sister still lives, while the name of her savior is forgotten by the Arisugawas.  I find Utena’s ending a realistic take on how even the best people get forgotten by our real world, and thus seem relevant and real to me. 

PMMM – Madoka “definitely, magically forgotten” by everyone but Homura
Madoka is erased from existence in a new world she sacrificed herself to create.  Even her mother is shown to have completely forgotten about her.  While tragic and dramatically effective upon first viewing, such an ending ultimately rings hollow to me because this kind of “magical forgetting” is not known to take place in our real world.  Ultimately, this ending, much like Penguindrum’s, is irrelevant to how things happen in the real world, and thus feel irrelevant to me.

Last edited by gorgeousshutin (04-02-2013 12:18:01 PM)


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 3 as of Sep 26, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#74 | Back to Top04-02-2013 12:39:32 PM

purplepolecat
Atlantean Singer
From: Vancouver, B.C.
Registered: 03-26-2007
Posts: 570

Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

gorgeousshutin wrote:

this kind of “magical forgetting” is not known to take place in our real world.

Are you sure about that? How would you know? emot-tongue

Personally I think it's forgivable in this instance because Madoka's actions fundamentally changed the nature of the world, kinda like the D-mails in Steins;Gate. There's no way people could have memories of Madoka AND have memories consistent with the new reality.


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#75 | Back to Top04-02-2013 12:48:18 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: Puella Magi Madoka Magica

Mmm hmm, shutin, I think that speaks to what I said above about self-sacrifice.  Part of Madoka's self-sacrifice is that everyone but Homura forgets her.  That element is necessary to bolster what PMMM is trying to say about friendship.  If everyone remembered the great hero Madoka who saved magical girls from becoming witches, then you could say, "Madoka never outgrew wanting to be glamorous and admired."  So she has to be forgotten, and she has to enter the contract knowing that she'll be forgotten.  That's important and it makes PMMM a better show on its own terms.  The problem -- I agree with you -- is that neither "saving magical girls from becoming witches" nor "being magically forgotten by everyone" is something I can connect to the real world.

(Of course, you're right, polecat, that maybe this did happen in the real world and I just don't know about it because of Madoka's incredible sacrifice.  John 3:16!)

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