You are not logged in.

Gougai! Gougai!

GUYS GUYS I JUST UPLOADED THE 1997 UTENA MUSICAL IN HIGH DEFINITION straight from the Japanese Blu-rays! i am now very tired goodnight

Also, our Secret Santa is going on! Come join in the fun!

#1 | Back to Top12-07-2012 02:20:08 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 906

Anthy is the real villain of SKU

C'mon, Anthy. You think after decades of emotionally manipulating teenagers into horrific acts of sadism just for your own amusement - and probably offing a few yourself - you think you can get out scot-free just because some pink-haired tart died pulling you out of a coffin? And even that would be excusable if you had the guts to reveal to everyone what your brother was up to, preventing him from pulling similar shenanigans ever again.
The worst part is that she shows no signs of having changed beyond shifting her attentions from Akio to Utena. This is presently my main disappointment with SKU.
If you know a fanfic where Anthy finally gets the comeuppance she so richly deserves, please post it here.

Offline

 

#2 | Back to Top12-07-2012 03:07:07 PM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

Atropos wrote:

The worst part is that she shows no signs of having changed beyond shifting her attentions from Akio to Utena.

Really? I thought the fact that she actually went out to search for Utena after telling Akio he sucked (albeit in a more ladylike way) showed a big change of character. I guess we don't know for sure if she's become a morally better person, but she did become more assertive and hopeful.

Offline

 

#3 | Back to Top12-07-2012 03:24:06 PM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

My standardized take on this subject:

---- Anthy: Innocent Victim or Malicious Co-conspirator?

Anthy was never evil, just resigned to doing what Akio wanted. Ikuhara said once that while it's true that Anthy has "venom", he would never characterize her as having "malice", and I think that's a good way of putting it.

Anthy's number one motivator was guilt. She hated what her brother had become after sealing Dios, but she also pitied him, and felt responsible for it. So she gave up everything except doing what he wanted, as a kind of endless atonement.

Now, does that mean Anthy is not manipulative, deceptive, and even callous at times? Of course not, but in some ways, Anthy is the most innocent person in the series. There's a diffence between antipathy and malice. Does Anthy despise the petty duelists with their self-centered ambitions? Without a doubt. It was true of Utena too, at first.

But there's a difference between that and actively seeking to do others harm. Regardless of her contempt for others, the person she believes deserves harm, far more than any of them, is herself. In her own eyes the enormity of her sin, and the degree to which she deserves punishment, are so much greater than anyone else's.

The duelists are, let's not forget, "children", and I'm sure that's how Anthy sees them. Obnoxious, selfish, loudmouthed children...and yet compared to herself and Akio they are innocent lambs, and I truly believe she pities them for being tangled up in Akio's web.

Never more so than with Utena. As Anthy comes to love Utena, her dislike for what she and Akio are doing, and her desire to save Utena from what's coming, grows agonizingly throughout the entire show. She starts to tell Utena the truth so many times...she begins, in the most feebly downtrodden way, to show resistance to Akio. This culminates in episode 36 and 37, where Anthy tries as hard as she's able to show Utena the abyss that's yawning in front of her.

So yes, I do think Anthy is "innocent", in the sense that she doesn't deserve her hellish fate, and really does not wish harm on anyone other than herself. She does what she does out of apathy and resignation, but she does not enjoy it, and Akio's self-justifying lies to the contrary are just that: lies, like everything that ever comes out of his mouth.

Akio asks Anthy why she tortures him, but she doesn't torment him, he torments himself - by wanting from her the only thing he could never gain: The same love and admiration that she had for Dios.

In short, I disagree. Also, Utena didn't die. emot-tongue

Offline

 

#4 | Back to Top12-07-2012 03:30:35 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 906

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

Whatever power Akio may have over her, Anthy is ultimately responsible for his being in that state to begin with - and don't say it was for his own good, she says she only did it so she could have him to herself. Besides that, she torments Nanami and Saionji without any direction from Akio simply for being stupid teenagers.

Aelanie wrote:

Also, Utena didn't die.

She 'died' within Ohtori. emot-wink

Offline

 

#5 | Back to Top12-07-2012 03:33:33 PM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

Atropos wrote:

Whatever power Akio may have over her, Anthy is ultimately responsible for his being in that state to begin with

That's what I just said. emot-tongue Only I interpret her as carrying a colossal shame and guilt because of that.

Besides that, she torments Nanami and Saionji without any direction from Akio simply for being stupid teenagers.

As someone with a low tolerance for stupid teenagers myself, I say they deserve it. school-devil

Offline

 

#6 | Back to Top12-07-2012 04:21:10 PM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

Atropos wrote:

Whatever power Akio may have over her, Anthy is ultimately responsible for his being in that state to begin with - and don't say it was for his own good, she says she only did it so she could have him to herself.

I figure it was a bit of both. I mean, she wanted him for herself obviously, but he was also dying.

And I would say Akio has some responsibility for being as he is as well. Isn't one of the themes that you chose your own destiny or whatever?

Offline

 

#7 | Back to Top12-07-2012 04:22:51 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 906

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

Dios was choosing death as Anthy tried to save him - she removed his ability to make the choice.

But that's beside the larger point, which is that Anthy is no morally higher than Akio.

Offline

 

#8 | Back to Top12-07-2012 04:27:24 PM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1318
Website

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

Atropos wrote:
The worst part is that she shows no signs of having changed beyond shifting her attentions from Akio to Utena.

I have to agree with this one.  If she has indeed become a morally superior person after she stopped being the Rose Bride, she would have compensated Kanae for the hurt she caused the girl, or at least try warning the main cast to flee Ohtori.  As it is, she simply leaves them there in danger's way while she goes after Utena - the only one she is shown caring for post "revolution".

Lurv wrote:
I guess we don't know for sure if she's become a morally better person, but she did become more assertive and hopeful.

We must remember, that Anthy was shown to be to be both brave and assertive in the "beginning".  Her assertiveness was what got her defending a sick Dios from the rabid mob (although Dios wanted to keep exerting himself for them) - it's what got her pierced by the Swords of Hate to begin with.  During the Ohtori period, she suppresses her assertive side in her Rose Bride role thinking it will help Akio become Dios (whom she wants to resurrect) again.  Thus, after Utena shows herself being more worthy of her affections by near-ending of Ep 39, she simply loses her Rose Bride role and allows her old self (including the bravery and assertiveness) to come back to the surface, thus the TV ending we got.

As for the "hopefulness" . . . I see it as being a part of her strong "determination" - a thing I see her having both before, during, and after her "Rose Bride period".

Is Anthy the villian of SKU . . . well, is Akio the villain of SKU?  I see the siblings as being 2 halves of the same yin/yang sign - both equally manipulative, equally cruel, with one embodying female gender role taken to destructive extreme, and the other embodying the same for the male gender role.  The only difference is that Anthy got to bond with someone who accepts her at her worst and still willing to offer her love (thus breaking her shell/coffin), Akio never met anyone who would/could do that for him.


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 4 as of Oct 31, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

Offline

 

#9 | Back to Top12-07-2012 04:33:09 PM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

gorgeousshutin wrote:

We must remember, that Anthy was shown to be to be both brave and assertive in the "beginning".  Her assertiveness was what got her defending a sick Dios from the rabid mob (although Dios wanted to keep exerting himself for them) - it's what got her pierced by the Swords of Hate to begin with.

Yes, but that was then. After years of being punished by the swords of hate, it makes sense that she lost most of that spirit. Until Utena woke her up from her coffin.

Offline

 

#10 | Back to Top12-07-2012 04:51:10 PM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1318
Website

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

Lurv wrote:

Yes, but that was then. After years of being punished by the swords of hate, it makes sense that she lost most of that spirit. Until Utena woke her up from her coffin.

I see Utena making Anthy again the person she once was before the Rose Bride role; I also see this awakened Anthy being fully capable of succumbing to the same mistakes she made in the past (and possibly becoming evil again), as there's no indication that post-Rose-Bride Anthy is much different than pre-Rose Bride Anthy.


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 4 as of Oct 31, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

Offline

 

#11 | Back to Top12-07-2012 04:55:52 PM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

gorgeousshutin wrote:

Lurv wrote:

Yes, but that was then. After years of being punished by the swords of hate, it makes sense that she lost most of that spirit. Until Utena woke her up from her coffin.

I see Utena making Anthy again the person she once was before the Rose Bride role; I also see this awakened Anthy being fully capable of succumbing to the same mistakes she made in the past (and possibly becoming evil again), as there's no indication that post-Rose-Bride Anthy is much different than pre-Rose Bride Anthy.

Well, she's wearing pink rather than red.

(But I don't really disagree with that point).

Atropos wrote:

Dios was choosing death as Anthy tried to save him - she removed his ability to make the choice.

But that's beside the larger point, which is that Anthy is no morally higher than Akio.

Not all his choices, though.

Anyway, I don't think of her as innocent, but in the end she became better.

Last edited by Lurv (12-07-2012 04:59:22 PM)

Offline

 

#12 | Back to Top12-08-2012 12:25:20 AM

Decrescent Daytripper
Best Disney Princess
Registered: 04-09-2007
Posts: 2790

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

One thing I like about the movie vs the show, is that the movie removes Akio from being anything but Anthy's (and everyone else's collective) neuroses. and guilt. In the TV version, we're left feeling positive but with no real evidence that Anthy hasn't, say, simply transfered her excuses and subservience onto Utena now. She may still be a complete evil ass. I mean, she smiles nice and walks kinda chipper but she always did.

By actively making Akio le Ghost of Christmas Fuck Everybody, the movie removes a major excuse and encourages us to view each character as largely independent operators, primarily responsible for their own actions, behavior, and interactions with other people. It isn't just the removal of real Akio, but also the shift in the dynamics between Miki and his sister, between Shiori and Juri, as well, or the fact that Touga is explicitly dead through the entire movie. Miki and Juri are both, in the movie, trying to distance themselves from dead pasts which are only significant by virtue of what the people involves place in them, and so, too, this is Anthy's situation.

(The ghosting of Akio and Touga, and non-presence of teachers, also removes the only notable authority in the SKU-verse, leaving us with a manipulated teenaged girl, Shiori, as the real villain who cannot stop acting out even when there is no longer any true stimuli for her behavior, just ghosts, memories, and reflexes.)

Last edited by Decrescent Daytripper (12-08-2012 07:43:38 AM)


My Brain is the Wakaba and Shiori Funtime Hour. With limited commercial interruption.

Offline

 

#13 | Back to Top12-08-2012 07:18:46 AM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

Decrescent Daytripper wrote:

One thing I like about the movie vs the show, is that the movie removes Akio from being anything by Anthy's (and everyone else's collective) neuroses. and guilt. In the TV version, we're left feeling positive but with no real evidence that Anthy hasn't, say, simply transfered her excuses and subservience onto Utena now. She may still be a complete evil ass. I mean, she smiles nice and walks kinda chipper but she always did.

By actively making Akio le Ghost of Christmas Fuck Everybody, the movie removes a major excuse and encourages us to view each character as largely independent operators, primarily responsible for their own actions, behavior, and interactions with other people. It isn't just the removal of real Akio, but also the shift in the dynamics between Miki and his sister, between Shiori and Juri, as well, or the fact that Touga is explicitly dead through the entire movie. Miki and Juri are both, in the movie, trying to distance themselves from dead pasts which are only significant by virtue of what the people involves place in them, and so, too, this is Anthy's situation.

(The ghosting of Akio and Touga, and non-presence of teachers, also removes the only notable authority in the SKU-verse, leaving us with a manipulated teenaged girl, Shiori, as the real villain who cannot stop acting out even when there is no longer any true stimuli for her behavior, just ghosts, memories, and reflexes.)

I absolutely, completely, 100% agree with everything you just said. Movie Anthy is completely unchained from her dead brother. She does not mourn his death or feel any responsibility for his failure as a prince. (Nor should she. It was all his own doing.) She has moved on, is focused on her search for a true prince - the duel game that she is orchestrating in the movie of her own will - and is much, much better off because of it.

Last edited by Aelanie (12-08-2012 07:23:52 AM)

Offline

 

#14 | Back to Top12-08-2012 08:33:09 AM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

Aelanie wrote:

She has moved on, is focused on her search for a true prince - the duel game that she is orchestrating in the movie of her own will - and is much, much better off because of it.

I guess that's why some people see the movie as a prequel.

Offline

 

#15 | Back to Top12-08-2012 10:14:44 AM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

Lurv wrote:

Aelanie wrote:

She has moved on, is focused on her search for a true prince - the duel game that she is orchestrating in the movie of her own will - and is much, much better off because of it.

I guess that's why some people see the movie as a prequel.

You mean a sequel? A prequel is about events that happen before the original work. Anyway, the series and the movie are completely different continuities, as Anthy's starkly different backstories in each version prove (among many other details).

Last edited by Aelanie (12-08-2012 10:27:02 AM)

Offline

 

#16 | Back to Top12-08-2012 10:32:09 AM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

Aelanie wrote:

Lurv wrote:

Aelanie wrote:

She has moved on, is focused on her search for a true prince - the duel game that she is orchestrating in the movie of her own will - and is much, much better off because of it.

I guess that's why some people see the movie as a prequel.

You mean a sequel? A prequel is about events that happen before the original work. Anyway, the series and the movie are completely different continuities, as Anthy's starkly different backstories in each version prove (among many other details).

Yeah, I mistyped. I meant a sequel in the spiritual sense, since movie!Anthy is searching for her prince like series!Anthy is at the end of the show. ;)

Offline

 

#17 | Back to Top12-08-2012 10:48:45 AM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1318
Website

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

I always see the movie as being - artsy visuals aside - a fan-wish fulfillment fanfic animated.  By dumbing down Shiori and Akio as one-dimensional, insignificant villains who gets easily, definitely destroyed, and by using the passionate car-lunge scene in the end, the story becomes directly fan-pleasing yet also more simplified/shallow.  In his more serious works, Ikuhara always make sure that

a) the evil forces are dissed but never outright destroyed (as is often the case in real life)

b) the hero(s) will always be forgotten by their world after they've sacrificed themselves to do good (Ikuhara stated his belief in significant self-sacrifice being needed to help friends/do good in his interviews)

These applied to both TV SKU and Pengundrum, but not Movie SKU.


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 4 as of Oct 31, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

Offline

 

#18 | Back to Top12-08-2012 10:54:09 AM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

Lurv wrote:

Aelanie wrote:

Lurv wrote:

I guess that's why some people see the movie as a prequel.

You mean a sequel? A prequel is about events that happen before the original work. Anyway, the series and the movie are completely different continuities, as Anthy's starkly different backstories in each version prove (among many other details).

Yeah, I mistyped. I meant a sequel in the spiritual sense, since movie!Anthy is searching for her prince like series!Anthy is at the end of the show. ;)

Ahh, I see. Well, it's always an interesting question as to what themes the Be-Papas had in their minds as they were dreaming up the movie, but to me...at the end of the series, Anthy knows that Utena isn't a fairy-tale prince. She leaves Ohtori to search for Utena knowing that. Maybe she has come to accept they can't exist, or simply that she herself doesn't need one, she only needs Utena, the flesh-and-blood human being. Either way, Anthy goes to find Utena knowing she doesn't fit that ideal.

On the other hand, Movie Anthy sees almost immediately that Movie Utena is the prince that she's been waiting for - or rather, that Utena could become so with the help of some emotional therapy and benevolent goading, both of which Anthy provides. Right up until the Car Wash Scene, Anthy has Utena cast firmly in her mind as her prince-to-be, and finally even declares straight out that Utena has succeeded in attaining it. However, Utena decides to reject that role when offered, and pulls them both toward an entirely different fate.

It's such a total contrast. In the series, Anthy would never acknowledge that Utena could become a prince. In the movie, Anthy doesn't just acknowledge the possibility, she takes active steps to make sure it actually occurs!

Last edited by Aelanie (12-08-2012 11:01:26 AM)

Offline

 

#19 | Back to Top12-08-2012 12:20:47 PM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

Aelanie wrote:

Well, it's always an interesting question as to what themes the Be-Papas had in their minds as they were dreaming up the movie, but to me...at the end of the series, Anthy knows that Utena isn't a fairy-tale prince. She leaves Ohtori to search for Utena knowing that. Maybe she has come to accept they can't exist, or simply that she herself doesn't need one, she only needs Utena, the flesh-and-blood human being. Either way, Anthy goes to find Utena knowing she doesn't fit that ideal.

TRUE, that is kind of significant.

In either case, though, Utena's not a replacement. At least that's how I see it.

Offline

 

#20 | Back to Top12-08-2012 01:49:07 PM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1318
Website

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

Lurv wrote:

TRUE, that is kind of significant.

In either case, though, Utena's not a replacement. At least that's how I see it.

I don't think Anthy see Utena as a replacement either, but rather a superior love target to what Dios was to her.

I believe that often times, when a person believes that they can love only one specific someone and no one else, it's only because they have yet to encounter another person who possess qualities that make them "even better" by the lover's (whether self-conscious or not) calculating mind. 

Let's look at the "calculations" through Anthy's eyes:

Dios   = Noble + Brave + Self-sacrificing + Male + Familiarity
Utena = Noble + Brave + Self-sacrificing - Female (since Anthy "was" straight) + Being Understanding
            + Boundlessly Forgiving(only discovered after Duel Revolution)

It's not hard to see why Anthy jumped ship in the end.

That does not mean that the way Anthy loves can just simply change just because she now loves Utena and not Dios, especially not when SKU ended on a note where Anthy still cares only for one single person (used to be Dios, now Utena), and that her saying Utena without sama (when she sama-ed Utena only to confuse/manipulate the girl into acting as per Akio's designs throughout the show, and not because she truly respected the latter) is basically an extension of her no longer mentally loyal to Akio. 

Realistically speaking, there should be a lot of rocky grounds both TV Utena and Anthy still have to cover (probably more than even what lied between Juri and Shiori, whose situation is relatively simple in that they are both humans, and are really of the same age) before reaching a stable, workable point in their relationship.


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 4 as of Oct 31, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

Offline

 

#21 | Back to Top12-12-2012 01:03:57 PM

KaleMarsh
High Tripper
From: Washington, DC
Registered: 06-13-2011
Posts: 245

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

Atropos wrote:

C'mon, Anthy. You think after decades of emotionally manipulating teenagers into horrific acts of sadism just for your own amusement - and probably offing a few yourself - you think you can get out scot-free just because some pink-haired tart died pulling you out of a coffin?

If you know a fanfic where Anthy finally gets the comeuppance she so richly deserves, please post it here.

I think a lot of people think of Anthy as less of a villain because she doesn't get off scot-free.  She bears unending pain in Akio's place, over and over.  Now, this isn't a punishment for anything she does that's manipulative or cruel, but rather a punishment for self-sacrifice and nobility.  That just makes her more sympathetic, as, if selflessness gets you impaled by swords of hatred, then I'd probably be a selfish, manipulative bitch too.  If I have to suffer either way, at least I can get a few laughs at Nanami's expense.

In a way, she's vindicated.  She's already been punished.  She's done her time.  If it didn't reform her, that's an assessment of the way the world (prison system, lol) works, not her.

But, as someone else pointed out, it doesn't matter if she's suffered or not.  The point is that she's been forgiven by someone.  The statement at the end of the series isn't a statement of reform or change; it's a statement regarding the power of forgiveness and accepting help offered you.  Utena forgave her, Anthy accepted it, so it doesn't matter what she does now.  She is free of Ohtori and the punishment she has endured--arguably.  Whether or not she changes is kind of irrelevant.

Offline

 

#22 | Back to Top12-12-2012 03:44:17 PM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1318
Website

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

KaleMarsh wrote:
I think a lot of people think of Anthy as less of a villain because she doesn't get off scot-free.  She bears unending pain in Akio's place, over and over.

In absolute fairness, isn't the reverse also true?

We see Anthy using her body doing a lot of things for Akio . . . but what about Akio dropping to his knees in sexual submission to Mrs. Ohtori?  Isn't that also a self-sacrificing act that can ensure both he and his sister can use Ohtori as den (for continued survival, for a "base" to realize their mutual quest to awake Dio's power)?

Watch Anthy's psychological tormenting of Kanae since far before the black rose episode - the wiping her glasses on the gift scarf and assorted pettiness - how much of it is Akio's wish, who much of it is Anthy's, how much of it is Anthy making Akio believe that it is his own wish? 

By Anthy's treatment of Kanae, her keeping Utena from being close to Akio (even though she sent Utena to get raped for the sake of furthering the quest for Dios' awakening, she will not tolerate Utena being emotionally close to her brother and thus risk breaking his shell), and her fixing the 2nd Touga duel (like she fixed every duel for her own purpose, not Akio's, as evidenced by Ep 25) such that Akio lost emotional communication with the boy for like 13 ep . . . I see that she is fiercely keeping her brother from developing any emotional bonds with others (while pure sexual/blatant manipulative relationships are okay), to the point that the "devil" is left with no one there to open his closed heart.  Sure, Akio himself must bear the blunt of his own damning actions, but what Anthy did, dosn't that also contributed a lot to Akio's "unrevolutionized" status by the end of the tv show?

There can be no "Utena-for-Akio" showing up to engage Akio sincerely, to see him at his worst and still forgive, because Anthy is there making sure that her brother is trapped by her just like he has trapped her.

Ep 35:
Akio:  But a star is a star. It belongs to nobody.
Akio:  It belongs to nobody.
Anthy (vapid):  Good night, brother.
Akio (frowning in angst):  How much longer are you still going to make me suffer? (from my VCR copy)
(Anthy's lips tensed into a flat line.)

Note Anthy's reaction here: not hurt, not confusion, not anger reacted against some obvious lie . . . it was a "tense defensiveness" - a telling sign she herself believes Akio's accusation is true.

We also must remember that Anthy bears the pain of the Swords not for Akio, but for her own focused, exclusion to all else love of Dios.  There is nothing really noble about her action in taking the Swords of Hate: it is a fulfillment of a self-centered, selfish wish on her own part: "I wanted to keep Dios from harm, I now want to resurrect him; I will help this monster now having taken his place to hurt other people, if hurting other people is the means to bring back the Dios I love.  I will bear suffering, and will make others suffer too, just so I can have what I want."

Last edited by gorgeousshutin (12-12-2012 07:53:35 PM)


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 4 as of Oct 31, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

Offline

 

#23 | Back to Top12-12-2012 09:06:43 PM

KaleMarsh
High Tripper
From: Washington, DC
Registered: 06-13-2011
Posts: 245

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

I agree that they've trapped each other.  To an extent, Akio suffers under emotional manipulation.  Who's pain is greater?  I guess no one can say until they've been trapped in eternity playing this kind of game.  That kind of pain isn't sympathetic, but 1000 swords of hatred sounds pretty bad.  It's more accessible.  It's easier to say that that's definitely a punishment.

It's interesting to me how that gives Anthy a sense of license, almost.  I feel like she's saying, "I've taken your punishment; you're now mine, and I can do what I want with you.  You're in my debt."  She's taken his suffering, and she's making him repay him when he didn't even ask for it.

I agree that Anthy is definitely a villain, but I think her pain and her torment is easier to grasp, which is why it's common for fans to see her as a lesser antagonist than Akio.  Is it a correct interpretation?  Utena's forgiveness says it is, but she's fallible.  This notion just seems to be the prevailing one that I've seen.

Offline

 

#24 | Back to Top12-12-2012 10:36:11 PM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1318
Website

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

KaleMarsh wrote:

t's common for fans to see her as a lesser antagonist than Akio.  Is it a correct interpretation?  Is it a correct interpretation?  Utena's forgiveness says it is, but she's fallible.  This notion just seems to be the prevailing one that I've seen.

We should note that Utena doesn't really get to know, or be emotionally close-knited to Akio - whom she meet via formal advice sessions and dates (during which both parties are showing only their best "sides" to each other) - as she does with Anthy (who shares her dorm room and later the tower bedroom, and the same classes, and the same social settings in and out of school for a long period of time).  Even after the sex, Utena still is emotionally way closer to Anthy (close soulmate) than Akio (distant princely ideal and object of desire).  Having known only a part of the truth till the very end, the girl is not a good judge on which of these siblings are more/less evil than the other.

That, and most fans judge a character more on gender, age and mannerism than their actual action.  Akio being a towering man and Anthy donning a petite teen girl guise makes it seem like the latter is the more vulnerable one, but let's remember that both are likely ancient deities (or at least as old as people from the Nemuro era).  That, and Anthy is really "Mamiya", who was blatantly vicious and malevolent throughout his scenes in the BR Arc. 

Imagine this: what if Anthy always looks like her threateningly sensual hair down witch self, and always use Mamiya-ruthless expressions?  That, and Akio dons his Dios boy guise for the entire show.  Even if both characters are to perform the exact same acts throughout the show, no doubt many fans will now view them very differently.


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 4 as of Oct 31, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

Offline

 

#25 | Back to Top12-13-2012 05:12:40 AM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: Anthy is the real villain of SKU

It's true that people judge by appearances a lot (though people aren't always forgiving of someone using an innocent front, just look at Shiori. Then again, she does have her defenders too). Though about the 1000 swords of hate, I wonder if Akio couldn't have said "it's me you really want," and they would no longer target Anthy. But no one wants to be stabbed by a thousand swords obviously... Unless they are a masochist, I guess, or deeply in love/obsession with someone, or feeling really guiltty... well, I can't think of a strong motivation for Akio to want that. Who knows what happens after the show, though.

Last edited by Lurv (12-13-2012 05:19:27 AM)

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB 1.2.23
© Copyright 2002–2008 PunBB
Forum styled and maintained by Giovanna and Yasha
Return to Empty Movement