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#1 | Back to Top08-08-2012 05:31:23 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 907

A newbie's conversion to Utena

Read it here: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?588 … ena-Thread.
Is it weird that I find reading about other people watching shows so enjoyable?

Last edited by Atropos (08-08-2012 05:32:32 PM)

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#2 | Back to Top08-10-2012 01:58:15 PM

Yasha
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From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6031
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Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

The confusion. It's so bittersweet, like drinking honeyed tea school-devil


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#3 | Back to Top08-10-2012 03:54:55 PM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

It's always fun to see how confused the new watchers are.

(Never mind that I was pretty confused myself the first time.)

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#4 | Back to Top08-11-2012 01:13:18 AM

Malacoda
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 07-26-2009
Posts: 180

Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

The Utena tag on tumblr has liveblogging posts from time to time and it's the most amusing stuff. Currently, a tumblr user was on episode 10 and was blogging about how psychotic Nanami is. Clearly all the other characters are bastions of reasonable conduct. emot-rofl

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#5 | Back to Top08-11-2012 03:13:45 AM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

Yeah, I check the Utena tag almost everyday, and the confusion is lovely. emot-biggrin There's some thoughtful posts there, though, and I feel bad for not thinking as deeply about it the first time I watched it.

(Also, I laughed when that guy compared Saionji to Ringo.)

Last edited by Lurv (08-11-2012 03:14:20 AM)

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#6 | Back to Top08-11-2012 10:01:22 AM

gorgeousshutin
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Registered: 04-11-2012
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Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

Lurv wrote:
(Also, I laughed when that guy compared Saionji to Ringo.)

Thus, the following fic-worthy line came to my mind:
Saionji (to Touga):  Let us share the fruit of fate!!!!!


(SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Completed as of May 12, 2018) / (PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 4 as of Oct 31, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#7 | Back to Top08-11-2012 11:04:04 AM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

Oh my.

Well, I admit those shows lend them self to crossovers well. emot-tongue

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#8 | Back to Top08-11-2012 11:25:39 AM

Raven Nightshade
Someday Shiner
From: Louisiana
Registered: 12-17-2006
Posts: 2925

Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

I hope you know I was up until 2am reading that thread. emot-rofl

The highlight for me was waiting to see how long it took for him to go

What.


Sometimes I wonder if I'm ever gonna make it home again.
It's so far and out of sight.
I really need someone to talk to and nobody else
Knows how to comfort me tonight.

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#9 | Back to Top08-11-2012 11:50:42 AM

gorgeousshutin
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Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1325
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Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

Raven Nightshade wrote:
The highlight for me was waiting to see how long it took for him to go

What.

That's also my main source of pleasure when going though newbie perspective SKU threads on other forums emot-wink

Edited to add:

To Lurv, regarding the Saionji/Ringo bit upthread:
Come to think of it, Saionji DID share the fruit of fate with Touga in SKU, thus why he was the bride in the pre-revolution duel, and why he followed his buddy into the planetarium for that "photo session" school-devil   Utena was right on the mark saying that greenhair cares more about Touga than Anthy.

Last edited by gorgeousshutin (08-11-2012 11:55:50 AM)


(SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Completed as of May 12, 2018) / (PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 4 as of Oct 31, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#10 | Back to Top08-11-2012 11:43:55 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

Atropos wrote:

Read it here: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?588 … ena-Thread.
Is it weird that I find reading about other people watching shows so enjoyable?

God, reading this is like falling in love with SKU all over again.  I couldn't stop reading until the end of the Student Council Saga.  What an eloquent, insightful, and emotive writer.  Thank you so much for passing this link along.

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#11 | Back to Top08-12-2012 12:41:15 AM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6031
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Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

Best line (spoilered):

But there shouldn't even be a need to worry. Sometimes an umbrella is just an umbrella.

But then, I guess that just shows Keiko knows the territory better than I do.

Well enough for her hand to start shaking, in fact, though she steadies it with the other, deciding she'd better lose herself in the music the moment she owns it, she'd better never let it go, she only gets one shot.


emot-dance


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#12 | Back to Top08-12-2012 04:18:44 PM

BlackBeforeRed
Acknowledged Smart Person
From: The Nightosphere
Registered: 07-09-2010
Posts: 178

Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

I have been reading through these with the same amount of amused enthusiam that comes from watching someone watch Utena for the first time. I lol every time a hilariously off track theory is presented and every time there's a What. The best part of this show is thinking back to when you were a n00b and laughing at how wrong you were, or not laughing (Anthy is a whole different character on Rewatch O.O) This is part of the reason why Utena is so easy to stay interested in years after you watch it (combined with the fact that there's no such thing as overanalyzing in SKU) The jigsaw puzzle never ceases to amaze

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#13 | Back to Top08-12-2012 09:22:04 PM

Davine Lu Linvega
Spam Arsonist
Registered: 06-08-2011
Posts: 88

Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

Wow, this guy comes up with some annoying nicknames for the characters. Juri = Amelia? I jumped to the end and it looks like he's finishing the Juri/Ruka eps, his reactions to the final part of the series should be interesting.

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#14 | Back to Top08-19-2012 09:36:51 PM

Raven Nightshade
Someday Shiner
From: Louisiana
Registered: 12-17-2006
Posts: 2925

Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

For those of you keeping up, the thread is up to Episode 29 now.


Sometimes I wonder if I'm ever gonna make it home again.
It's so far and out of sight.
I really need someone to talk to and nobody else
Knows how to comfort me tonight.

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#15 | Back to Top08-20-2012 09:29:31 AM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

Finally. emot-dance Lol, dancing in the Doctor Who sense.

I'm almost disappointed that his next post will be Madoka.

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#16 | Back to Top08-27-2012 08:01:19 AM

MikoGalatea
Rose Bride
From: England, UK
Registered: 02-25-2012
Posts: 115
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Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

That RPG.net thread is certainly one of the more enjoyable SKU liveblogs I've seen. I like how they discuss the little references the show makes, like Akio namedropping Ganymede.

On the other hand, I tend to find the liveblogs on Tumblr kind of irritating. There's some insightful posts on there to be sure, but many others fall way too much into pointless capslocking and shallow character bashing for my liking (which, in my case, isn't exactly helped by the fact that half my favourite characters are the ones who always get hated on...).

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#17 | Back to Top08-27-2012 10:56:14 AM

gorgeousshutin
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Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1325
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Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

MikoGalatea wrote:
pointless capslocking and shallow character bashing

Touga and Saionji and Shiori comes to my mind.

And Akio . . . he's evil but he's NEVER weak.  For the many self-proclaimed feminist  fangirls to try and depower the character by labeling him stupid/limited-power/can-only-control-kids when he obviously has power over not just the students, but like ALL the parents, faculty, and adults who got screen time (and still would, even without Anthy) is just . . .  no.  The Mikage Seminar is said to have major POLITICIANS among its attendees (see first black rose ep), so Akio has control over these outside power players too.  Akio's idea of revolution is alluded to being one where he gain ultimate control over everyone and the world, so to him Utena's helping-a-few-individuals revolution does indeed amount to nothing; Akio is not confused over what he wants - it's a power-seeking, others-sacrificing "revolution" the Ends of the World wanted all along.  Akio is like many successful politicians in our world - projecting false fronts which they use to manipulate the weaker/less intelligent masses.  Is it morally wrong?  Yes.  Is it weak and pathetic?  Then, are the world's leaders weak and pathetic?

Please remain on canon while analyzing/outright-bashing the characters, even the evil ones, please.

Last edited by gorgeousshutin (08-27-2012 11:19:01 AM)


(SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Completed as of May 12, 2018) / (PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 4 as of Oct 31, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#18 | Back to Top08-27-2012 11:27:52 AM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

gorgeousshutin wrote:

Ako idea of revolution is alluded to being one where he gain ultimate control over everyone and the world . . .

My best understanding of Akio suggests that as far as he's concerned, he already has ultimate control over everyone and the world.  He is pleased as Punch to be the absolute master of Ohtori Academy and has no particular ambitions beyond it.  If there's evidence to the contrary in the text, I haven't noticed it.  His power plays that we see are all focused on consolidating his control within Ohtori: strengthening his hold on the special people and trying to keep Anthy docile.

. . . so to him Utena's helping-a-few-individuals revolution does indeed amount to nothing in his eyes; Akio is not confused over what he wants - it's a power-seeking, others-sacrificing "revolution" the Ends of the World wanted all along.

I agree that Akio isn't confused over what he wants.   But what he wants is just what he (thinks he) already has: absolute control.  And since he already has what he wants, he isn't trying to bring revolution at all.  The dueling game is an elaborate sham designed to keep the perpetual motion machine of Ohtori Academy rolling, and Anthy won't call Akio on his bullshit so long as he at least pretends that he's trying to regain the power of Dios and make everything like it was before.  But ironically, Akio is approximately the only main character who isn't stuck in the past.

Akio isn't stupid, and his power is extensive within the Academy.  But outside its walls, he has no such control, or else Anthy's departure would be no threat to him.  In the end, he is the pretend tyrant of a third-rate garden that anyone can leave at any time.  His subjects are enslaved not by him but by their own pasts.  If Utena's revolution consists of freeing these few people from their pasts, then her revolution is indeed very dangerous to Akio!

Anyway, we are straying off topic emot-smile  Probably this belongs in a different thread.  I continue to love the rewatch, though I wish the spectators could leave the Juri/Shiori nuclear war to one side.  emot-rolleyes  Also, I was uncomfortable when someone quoted an old IRG post of mine about "kiseki wo shinjite."  I tried to make it clear in that post that I am no translator, and now I am being cited as authority.   emot-redface  Possibly the lesson is that if I don't know what I'm talking about I should keep my mouth shut rather than try to be the one-eyed man in the land of the blind.

Last edited by satyreyes (08-27-2012 11:44:53 AM)

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#19 | Back to Top08-27-2012 12:34:49 PM

gorgeousshutin
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Registered: 04-11-2012
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Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

satyreyes wrote:
Akio isn't stupid, and his power is extensive within the Academy.  But outside its walls, he has no such control, or else Anthy's departure would be no threat to him.

At risk of derailing the thread I'd like to say something about this.

From what we saw in SKU, Utena's parents' funeral seem to happen OUTSIDE Ohtori, and Akio and Anthy both can appear to child-Utena in that outside world as surreal entities to shackle her with the signet, which led the girl to Ohtori eventually.

Miki's Father seems to be located OUTSIDE of Ohtori, when he calls Miki to ask him to speak to his new wife, which from audience POV turns out to be Anthy in a rose bride dress.

And what I said upthread:

The Mikage Seminar is said to have major POLITICIANS among its attendees (see first black rose ep), so Akio has control over these outside power players too.

From what I can see, Anthy's leaving threatens Akio's scenerio in that he lost a powerful ally in his plans - one who could become his enemy in the future.  But Utena freeing a handful of kids will likely leave very little dent in his scheme of things, as anyone (even the black rose duelists) can become duelists in his world


(SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Completed as of May 12, 2018) / (PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 4 as of Oct 31, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#20 | Back to Top08-27-2012 01:01:39 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

I'm not arguing about it here, and I'm not interested enough to start a new thread, though if you start one then I'll come visit. emot-smile

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#21 | Back to Top08-27-2012 01:55:32 PM

gorgeousshutin
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Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1325
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Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

Since I don't wanna start a new thread and clutter up forum space, I'll move my discussion of Akio's Influence in the Outside World with Satyreyes  here:
http://forums.ohtori.nu/viewtopic.php?p … 34#p245434

Satyreyes, if you're still interested in continuing this, fire away emot-dance


(SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Completed as of May 12, 2018) / (PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 4 as of Oct 31, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#22 | Back to Top09-03-2012 05:10:47 AM

Decrescent Daytripper
Best Disney Princess
Registered: 04-09-2007
Posts: 2791

Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

Atropos wrote:

Is it weird that I find reading about other people watching shows so enjoyable?

An entertaining audience is often the mark of a great program. I don't really want to watch Buffy or Evil Come, Evil Go again without either people immediately present who I can gauge through and enjoy their reactions or folks accessible to talk about it. Some things are just better exploded and filtered through the variety of their audience.

"If you're going to have your couple be two girls, why not just have them be two girls?" from the link, though, grates on me. Utena is a lot of things, but she is, um, a girl. Heteronormativity is weird in anime fans.

Last edited by Decrescent Daytripper (09-03-2012 05:17:23 AM)


My Brain is the Wakaba and Shiori Funtime Hour. With limited commercial interruption.

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#23 | Back to Top09-03-2012 05:56:53 AM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

Decrescent Daytripper wrote:

"If you're going to have your couple be two girls, why not just have them be two girls?" from the link, though, grates on me. Utena is a lot of things, but she is, um, a girl. Heteronormativity is weird in anime fans.

Well, Utena does take on a masculine role, so the relationship is still reminiscent of a typical m/f relationship.

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#24 | Back to Top09-03-2012 06:08:24 AM

Decrescent Daytripper
Best Disney Princess
Registered: 04-09-2007
Posts: 2791

Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

Lurv wrote:

Decrescent Daytripper wrote:

"If you're going to have your couple be two girls, why not just have them be two girls?" from the link, though, grates on me. Utena is a lot of things, but she is, um, a girl. Heteronormativity is weird in anime fans.

Well, Utena does take on a masculine role, so the relationship is still reminiscent of a typical m/f relationship.

It never really is to the isolation of what it actually is, though, yeah? Utena is accused of dressing as a boy or being boyish, but she's not wearing what any actual guy in the series is, she never insists on being treated as a boy, and her main dynamic with Anthy involves her appearing more outgoing, more worldly, and more knowing... and our growing realization that she isn't any of those things. Even when it comes to being a Prince, as Utena sees that role, she never says she wants to be a guy, she never attempts to obfuscate her sex or gender, and at least during Saionji's surprise that she's female, in the movie, she takes umbrage at his ignorance. Utena's outgoing and likes to keep things simple, but the thing that makes her seem the most masculine to in-show people is that she's not identical to the rest of the girls and that she's better at many things than most of the boys. Better than boys =/= boy, though.

The poster over there does chill a bit with the second-ep commentary, with Utena's "because I like to" answer to her shorts (the most masculine of attire).


My Brain is the Wakaba and Shiori Funtime Hour. With limited commercial interruption.

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#25 | Back to Top09-03-2012 06:32:18 AM

gorgeousshutin
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Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1325
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Re: A newbie's conversion to Utena

Decrescent Daytripper wrote:
her shorts (the most masculine of attire).

To be honest, that looks like something Touga might wear when alone with Akio in the privacy of their lacy bed . . .


(SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Completed as of May 12, 2018) / (PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 4 as of Oct 31, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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