You are not logged in.

#76 | Back to Top02-06-2007 09:04:59 AM

rhyaniwyn
Myth is my Bitch
From: Tallahassee, FL
Registered: 11-09-2006
Posts: 684
Website

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

I do think it's possible, though I still am not sure it's any more sinister than ...  Miki emotionally abandoning his sister, distancing himself.  Their relationship has to change, yeah, but he's doing it badly because he's immature and selfish (like everyone his age).  So he "stabs her in the back"; after all, she calls him a traitor.  There's nothing gentle about feeling betrayed, which is (I think) the feeling that inspired her transformation. 

But (a) all the dead and dead-ish people around and (b) the repeating relationships, which echo each other (Anthy & Akio) mean he could have severely hurt her.  I don't think she was literally murdered.  As in, she's probably not permenantly dead (more like Anthy than Touga).  But there's just not enough for me to be sure of that either way...and, hey, what if she killed herself?

It feels weird not to really have a concrete opinion on whether or not Kozue is dead.  I have opinions on pretty much everything else...in the world... O_O

I think choosing cars was probably the next thing to an arbitrary decision.  But the car transformation ends up meaning something, and the car becomes an apt metaphor.  If the transformation had been into a dragon, I probably would have thought it was cooler.  If it had been birds or something, I'd have thought it was more poetic.

Actually, I was doing some thinking about the average student at Ohtori, but I'm not sure it's a fully formed or well-considered theory yet...  Wakaba always pops up to make things more complicated.  She's not really a duellist, even though she is a Black Rose duellist in the anime.  But she's very connected to the duels because of her friendship with Utena throughout the anime.  Her role as token "normal-girl" means I tend to try to transfer her onto the rest of the student body, but maybe that's not exactly the right approach.

In the movie, she really only shows up at the beginning, but the fact that she is the car in which "friendship saves the day" is, I think, directly referential to her character in the series.  I think we basically have to take for granted that she's Utena's friend.  And she's probably fairly close to being like the average student at Ohtori.

There's the angle in which the problem with Ohtori isn't Ohtori itself, physically, but what Ohtori represents due to (as brian put it) Utena and Anthy's emotional baggage.  So Wakaba would transform out of concern for Utena, her friend.  She might want to help out Utena as much as Utena wants to help Anthy.

There's the angle I was implying in my previous post.  Once the "race" begins, it's like armageddon for Ohtori, and everyone chooses a side.  Your average student at Ohtori would be unaware of Ohtori's true nature, or why they were there.  They are there, in a way, because they weren't ready to let go of something in their past and/or grow up.  Ohtori, as it is, is a place of safety from the challenges of wide world outside.  Most of the students don't want to see that reality, take responsibility for their lives, and let go of their own baggage.  Utena and Anthy represent a threat to the safety of their ignorance; they mostly join the horde (which could be why it ends up being so large and is where the "hive mind" comes in).  But this only happens because it's such a huge event in Ohtori-history.  Desperate times, etc.  Without the extraordinary circumstances, they wouldn't have been pushed to the extremety of a transformation. 

Also, we know that in the anime the students are basically a hero-worshipping, faceless mob with a hostility toward the Rose Bride.  Ikuhara may be taking a "people suck, but there are some individual persons who don't" sort of attitude toward the student body.  Ohtori continues to exist in both versions.  In the anime things seem to have changed for the better--slightly--personally, for our main characters.  In the movie, we just know Ohtori is still there.  But I can guess that most of the students are happy in ignorance, in being zombies, in living as they are told.  Sheep, etc.  But I think there is a threat to them, in that they probably feared change.  They feared being exposed to the outside world.

Wakaba is one of the exceptions and she becomes the Jeep--again, because she's Utena's friend.  She's not a duellist, but she's sort of on their "side."  I think Wakaba will end up leaving Ohtori too.  Maybe not quickly, maybe not as dramatically--but she's not going to remain stuck, either.  Anthy and Utena have forged a path for anyone that wants to go too.  But there's not any hurry--the other duellists aren't in a huge hurry either.  They intend to follow, but they don't do so immediately.

The Black Rose is not an unsuitable comparison to the horde.  I know Blade feels strongly about the mind-control in the Black Rose saga, but they only go to Nemuro because they want to.  The elevator ride is a ride into their own subconscious minds.  They do seem to be under some degree of control, but they open the door to that control willingly.  I could go further into the psychology of that, but basically they are being manipulated based on feelings that they already had inside them.  The manipulation is closer to total mind control than for the Student Council duellists...in part because the Black Rose duellists aren't ready to be real, conscious duellists.  But their repressed feelings are powerful.  The students all had repressed feelings--fears, etc. that could be used.

Actually, in a way, I misstated that comparison between the anime and the move.  They are motivated by a desire change in both versions, they're just more attached to their pasts in the anime and almost seem to want to go back rather than forward.  But in the movie, they seem to be more aware that forward is the only direction and want to do that from the start (it's shorter).  In both, they are intially wrong about what it will take to accomplish that.  For example, in the anime, it slowly becomes obvious that they want revolution without work--they want a shortcut, some power to suddenly free them to act differently, when in reality all that constrains them is inside them.  Which is the revolution of Utena...helping people to realize that, inspiring them to progress.  The young always want to destroy the world because they think it's the world that's wrong.  Maybe it is, but you don't have to play by those rules.  Change yourself and you change the world.  When other people see you doing it, they can be inspired to do the same thing.  Everyone lives more fulfilling lives.  Yay!

Last edited by rhyaniwyn (02-06-2007 09:16:10 AM)


http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/absolethe/itrg_signature.jpg

Offline

 

#77 | Back to Top02-13-2007 09:21:57 PM

SleepDebtFairy
Revolutionary
From: Washington DC
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2096
Website

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

I noticed the Kozue car (and was instantly amused), but I didn't notice the "blood" next to the rubber ducky. My guess is that it is bath water tinted by the red light, but meant to give the illusion of blood for symbolism. Perhaps not symbolism of an actual death, but a death of innocence.

Then again, Kozue did have a razor. But still. I don't think you can literally "die" in Ohtori. In the anime, it seems like when you die in Ohtori, you graduate. .. well, on second thought, if Kozue was killed, it might make sense that she became a car to leave Ohtori. Hm. But Shiori became a car and died anyway. ..okay, the movie confuses me, nevermind.

But on another note, has anyone noticed that Miki and Kozue seem to switch roles from anime to movie? In the anime, it is Miki clinging to their childhood memories and refusing to grow up. In the movie, it's Miki saying they have to grow up and leave their childhood memories behind. emot-confused

Offline

 

#78 | Back to Top02-14-2007 06:08:14 PM

Nilamarthiel
The Icon Icon
From: Northern Michigan
Registered: 02-05-2007
Posts: 3972
Website

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

I'm not sure if I remember this correctly, and I could very easily be wrong, since I lost the DVD somewhere in my room, but...

In the bathtub scene, when the water and ducky splished out of the tub, wasn't there a bit of blood mixed in the water? I'm not sure if that's relevant or not, but... could it be taken into consideration if my memory is correct? Or is that inconsequential?

Offline

 

#79 | Back to Top02-16-2007 06:52:24 PM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 589

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

It's water catching the lurid red light of the garage so it is not literally blood but it is symbolically.

Offline

 

#80 | Back to Top02-16-2007 07:20:31 PM

Nilamarthiel
The Icon Icon
From: Northern Michigan
Registered: 02-05-2007
Posts: 3972
Website

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

brian wrote:

It's water catching the lurid red light of the garage so it is not literally blood but it is symbolically.

Well, yes, I know that, but the actual BATHTUB scene, where Kozue actually has the straightrazor in her hand. I could have sworn I saw some blood mixed in the water.

Offline

 

#81 | Back to Top02-17-2007 06:00:55 PM

rhyaniwyn
Myth is my Bitch
From: Tallahassee, FL
Registered: 11-09-2006
Posts: 684
Website

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

Well, I didn't re-watch just before posting, but I can say I've never noticed it being red then.


http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/absolethe/itrg_signature.jpg

Offline

 

#82 | Back to Top02-17-2007 09:28:10 PM

Nilamarthiel
The Icon Icon
From: Northern Michigan
Registered: 02-05-2007
Posts: 3972
Website

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

Hmm, I did, and there was no blood. My memory must be super-faulty. T_T

Offline

 

#83 | Back to Top02-17-2007 10:05:06 PM

Ragnarok
Caption Captor
From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4472
Website

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

The movie seems to do that. I couldn't remember Wakaba walking with Tatsuya in the ending sequence and I was positive it wasn't in there; until I rewatched it.

Last edited by Ragnarok (02-17-2007 10:05:29 PM)


http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/RagnarokIII/spyschool.jpg

Offline

 

#84 | Back to Top02-20-2007 12:30:44 PM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 589

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

Here are a couple more suggestions about the car-horde.

Maybe they are all Shiori. They mostly look the same as her. After she crashes her will simply does not give up but become stronger and multiplies.

Maybe they are Akio, simple manifestations of his will.

Maybe Anthy creates them out of her own fear.

Maybe they are the Swords of Human Hatred. In the anime they also are mindless and swarm-like. And they are both chasing Himemiya.

Offline

 

#85 | Back to Top02-26-2007 02:37:36 PM

Yams
Nest Boxer
From: Crystal Millenium
Registered: 02-13-2007
Posts: 973

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

Lightice wrote:

Who here would have imagined, by the way, that the biggest and most heated debate on this forum would be about the cars of the movie? emot-rolleyes

I was thinking the same thing after spending about an hour reading the whole thing. emot-dance


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i232/YamPuff/im%20holllowz_zpsx9ddh2gp.png~original

Offline

 

#86 | Back to Top02-27-2007 01:22:52 PM

Toasty
Wakaba Wrangler
Registered: 10-27-2006
Posts: 14

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

As if this whole mess wasn't complicated enough already, I have another theory about the cars. It probably won't hold up under close scrutiny, as a lot of it is gut feeling and pure guesswork. But here goes all the same.

I've always thought of the black cars as lost souls, in a way. They're people who've failed to let go of their pasts and are doomed to stay in Ohtori forever as mindless drones. Don't ask me what gave me that idea, it's just the first thing that came to mind. I don't think tbe students in movie Ohtori have a lot of influence on if and when they'll be turned into a car. There can only be two outcomes for anyone trapped in movie Ohtori. Either they decide to head for the outside world, in which case they'll be turned into a car while maintaining their individuality and are given a chance to leave Ohtori, albeit against high odds. This is what I believe happened to Utena; the pink car is clearly an 'individual' car (i.e. she didn't lose her soul or her free will after turning into a car). As an aside, it may be required to forge a strong bond of selfless friendship (as Utena and Anthy did) with someone in order for a 'good' car transformation like this to take place.
The other outcome is that students who keep clinging to their pasts or childhoods eventually pass a point of no return. At that moment, they'll be completely trapped in the world of Ohtori and turn into a black car. While not exactly dead, I believe these people have no more will of their own. All they do is mindlessly chase people who try to escape to the outside world (crashing during such a chase means actual, physical death) and stay dormant in the garage for the rest of the time.

I think Kozue suffered the latter outcome. She couldn't bring herself to let go of her childhood. The mere suggestion by Miki that they 'can't go back to the sunlit garden' (quite reasonable of him, in fact, stating that she'll still be dear to him all the same) is met with violent outrage on her part. At that point, she had probably already lost her chance to escape from Ohtori, and the transformation into a black car happened shortly afterwards. Miki does treat this very coolly. Maybe he and the other duellists knew about the car transformations all along and he was trying to talk some sense into Kozue during the bathtub scene. Now that she's become a black car, his unspoken attitude towards it seems to be 'I told you so'.

Now, how does Shiori fit into all this? She becomes a black car but definitely does maintain her individuality (the Shiori car even talks). There are two ways to explain this;
A) She has 'passed the point of no return' but still had some exceptionally strong malice in her. Because of that, she became a sort of extra-evil black car which maintained all the negative aspects of her personality (As well as some of her dress sense. Lace on a steering wheel has to be a sign of utmost evil).
B) She made a conscious decision to go to the outside world, but for all the wrong reasons. She says only she should be allowed to do something as 'nifty' as heading outside. She wants to leave Ohtori purely to spite Anthy and Utena, it's not about growing up or overcoming the past for her. So she ended up as something halfway between a black car and an 'individual' car. In the end, she fails and crashes because her turning into a car was motivated by petty reasons (like the duels in the TV series, where those who duel for selfish reasons always end up losing).

I'm not going to touch the Wakaba-jeep just now, as this post is far too long already and I feel dead tired. Given some thought, it could probably fit the theory, though.


I don't mind straight people as long as they can act gay in public.

Offline

 

#87 | Back to Top03-02-2007 03:25:22 PM

Mai_Kanzaki
Ohtori Paramouri
From: Left of Nowhere, Ohio
Registered: 02-18-2007
Posts: 93
Website

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

Eh here's a half-arsed essay I started thanks to this thread. Pick at it as you like.

With the exception of the Wakaba Jeep the cars strike me as one thing. The way to leave Ohtori, from here on called "this world", to go to the outside world.

Utena has her reasons to leave (not this thread's topic), so does Shiori (again another time), even Akio's car serves the same purpose (GAH! My head hurts...).

There's also a purpose for the "car-nage" as Brian put it.

It's all connected to Kozue's transformation but we'll get there in due time...

First of all I believe that the "bath scene" is an emotional turning point just as much as Utena's confrontation with Anthy in the rose garden and even parallels with its imagery; a physical attack, the flooding and stuff being carried away, even the water itself, and the axe and blade as sharp dangerous foreboding objects, I could go on... But where we get the beautiful dance scene and a sense of relief or at least something positive for the "engaged" pair we get nothing of a solid follow-up with the twins but I for one doubt any death was involved time limit or not it seems too important to not get any on-screen time.
I believe the twins’ confrontation reveals the different goals of the twins. I'll warn you I'm taking a cue or two from the series but please bear with me I'm using mostly for insight since I can. Kozue seems to want to return to the garden were they where equals in many ways and they created something beautiful together (the sunlit garden song) with both his genius and her ineptitude (I seem to catch that the little flourishes that Anthy used when playing the song were strikingly similar to Kozue's bumbling around when she was playing for her friend). Miki however wants to go beyond that (by pushing for the concert) and in the movie he hasn't come to regret it as he does in the series. Thus we have the set up for the confrontation. Kozue feels abandoned and as a part of her believes that she and Miki are the best things about the world (as she states as a Black Rose Duelist) this world is no longer something she wants to be a part of. By separating herself from this world there are few options for her: death (like Akio) or to leave.
So far it seems to leave you must take the highway thus become a car or ride one. The highway and the car are in all honesty a modern analogy for transition and movement, change in a way, and here as leaving one world to go to another in my opinion. It also seems like a modernization of the prince's white horse especially in the case of Akio's car.

But why is she stuck in the garage? Well just because you don't want to be here doesn't mean that you want to go anywhere in particular. Maybe she lacks the proper inspiration (the key) to leave or she's stuck between a rock and a hard place, this world breaks her heart but the outside world frightens her. Thus she's trapped. Even if she’s not capable of movement the car’s light moved disturbingly similar to someone who stirs in their sleep opens at least one eye then lies down again.  People in a coma are said to be still aware to a certain extent.
Miki and Juri might be in the garage out of curiosity, much like kids sneaking into an abandoned or "haunted" house. Being duelists it's possible that they're reveling in going where no one else is allowed. But what about the presence of Dios? Could it be that he's haunting this place for the same reasons as the cars that are held there? (More for another time sorry...)
It could be possible that Miki and Juri are arriving as Kozue is being added to this holding station. So could they have arrived for this reason to see and confirm his sister's fate? He could be there to gloat for all we know. It's possible that sibling rivalry has been awakened between the twins and from our point of view it could be argued that Kozue has taken a step ahead of her brother albeit prematurely thus she's not ready to leave. He could see it as Kozue trying to outdo him but messed up, reinforcing his choice in taking the path of a duelist.
The rubber duck simply being a reminder of the moment that led to this turn of events and the bad blood that now exists between the twins. In stories, movies and legends we see where conflicts of friends or lovers turned enemies are incredibly more epic and impassioned than simple rivalry or just being on the opposite side can be. How much more intense the struggles of once loving siblings driven by betrayal and fear? The duck in brake lights could be a message; "This is not over."
At least to me it had a threatening feel to it. Perhaps what really died was the last of Miki and Kozue’s innocence and trust.
It should also be noted that their garden might be a variation, a personal one, of the closed off world of Ohtori.

I'll add more if I survive... *covers head*


emot-gonk THINK MUN-KEY!

Offline

 

#88 | Back to Top03-03-2007 11:37:41 AM

Yams
Nest Boxer
From: Crystal Millenium
Registered: 02-13-2007
Posts: 973

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

Mai_Kanzaki wrote:

Maybe she lacks the proper inspiration (the key) to leave or she's stuck between a rock and a hard place, this world breaks her heart but the outside world frightens her.

You just made me think (oh noes!!); maybe cars turn black when they don't have 'keys'? Wakaba and Utena both had riders and their own colors, perhaps they had their own keys?


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i232/YamPuff/im%20holllowz_zpsx9ddh2gp.png~original

Offline

 

#89 | Back to Top03-03-2007 12:46:49 PM

Mai_Kanzaki
Ohtori Paramouri
From: Left of Nowhere, Ohio
Registered: 02-18-2007
Posts: 93
Website

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

YamPuff wrote:

You just made me think (oh noes!!); maybe cars turn black when they don't have 'keys'? Wakaba and Utena both had riders and their own colors, perhaps they had their own keys?

Like when it's not saved from rusting out? Anthy had Utena's key (was it just me or was it originally her duelist signet?) but what about Wakaba? She seems to be busting all the theories. I think there might be more to the "normal" girl than meets the eye. school-sherlock
Also maybe the fact that they're carrying people might be important too.
*snirk snirk* Can't you just picture it? Adolescence Apocalypse: Drivers Wanted


emot-gonk THINK MUN-KEY!

Offline

 

#90 | Back to Top03-05-2007 07:08:56 AM

Yams
Nest Boxer
From: Crystal Millenium
Registered: 02-13-2007
Posts: 973

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

Mai_Kanzaki wrote:

YamPuff wrote:

You just made me think (oh noes!!); maybe cars turn black when they don't have 'keys'? Wakaba and Utena both had riders and their own colors, perhaps they had their own keys?

Like when it's not saved from rusting out? Anthy had Utena's key (was it just me or was it originally her duelist signet?) but what about Wakaba? She seems to be busting all the theories. I think there might be more to the "normal" girl than meets the eye. school-sherlock
Also maybe the fact that they're carrying people might be important too.
*snirk snirk* Can't you just picture it? Adolescence Apocalypse: Drivers Wanted

Yes; the two cars with colors had one thing in common that we know for sure: they both had riders. Maybe it also goes that they both had keys. It seems you can turn to a car at will (Shiori says something along the lines of 'you think you're the only one who can become a car').

Maybe, for whatever reason, Kozue turned into a car but Miki didn't want to ride her. (Bad choice of words!! school-devilschool-devil)

I like my analysis short and sweet.


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i232/YamPuff/im%20holllowz_zpsx9ddh2gp.png~original

Offline

 

#91 | Back to Top03-05-2007 12:55:38 PM

Mai_Kanzaki
Ohtori Paramouri
From: Left of Nowhere, Ohio
Registered: 02-18-2007
Posts: 93
Website

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

YamPuff wrote:

Maybe, for whatever reason, Kozue turned into a car but Miki didn't want to ride her. (Bad choice of words!! school-devilschool-devil)

Like, maybe she was ready to go but he wasn't?school-devilschool-devilschool-devil


emot-gonk THINK MUN-KEY!

Offline

 

#92 | Back to Top03-06-2007 10:42:50 AM

Yams
Nest Boxer
From: Crystal Millenium
Registered: 02-13-2007
Posts: 973

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

Mai_Kanzaki wrote:

YamPuff wrote:

Maybe, for whatever reason, Kozue turned into a car but Miki didn't want to ride her. (Bad choice of words!! school-devilschool-devil)

Like, maybe she was ready to go but he wasn't?school-devilschool-devilschool-devil

Exactly. He didn't want to turn her on...school-devilschool-devilschool-devilschool-devilschool-devil

yeah, I'm out of puns. emot-tongue


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i232/YamPuff/im%20holllowz_zpsx9ddh2gp.png~original

Offline

 

#93 | Back to Top03-06-2007 11:46:07 PM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
Website

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

YamPuff wrote:

Mai_Kanzaki wrote:

YamPuff wrote:

Maybe, for whatever reason, Kozue turned into a car but Miki didn't want to ride her. (Bad choice of words!! school-devilschool-devil)

Like, maybe she was ready to go but he wasn't?school-devilschool-devilschool-devil

Exactly. He didn't want to turn her on...school-devilschool-devilschool-devilschool-devilschool-devil

yeah, I'm out of puns. emot-tongue

Maybe considering Kozue's sexual history, riding the car version of her would like like choosing a 3rd, 4th or 5th hand model that has had her odometer clock over a few times, no wonder he chose to ride the new Wakaba jeep instead. emot-keke

Offline

 

#94 | Back to Top12-03-2008 10:55:35 AM

MissKosmic
Juri Jeerer
From: Oregon
Registered: 12-01-2008
Posts: 40
Website

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

brian wrote:

Maybe they are the Swords of Human Hatred. In the anime they also are mindless and swarm-like. And they are both chasing Himemiya.

That's what I think is most likely...I don't think they're meant to be the student body. I think they're meant to be more of a generic, faceless bunch...like the swords of hatred. The whole "world" is jealous and fearful of Anthy's escape.

um...thanks! This is a great thread.

Offline

 

#95 | Back to Top12-04-2008 10:37:37 AM

rhyaniwyn
Myth is my Bitch
From: Tallahassee, FL
Registered: 11-09-2006
Posts: 684
Website

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

The swords fit with my interpretations when I keep in mind the origin of the swords of human hatred.

You have this crowd, each of whom is holding a sword.  That crowd represents all of humanity, not just the individuals that were there at that particular moment.  (Though, logically speaking, there are individual persons present at that time.)  The fact that the crowd already has the swords in their hands shows that they are already looking for someone to blame.  Anthy steps out and gives them an excuse to mob her.  They label her a Witch, assaulting her and making her the scapegoat for all of their problems (from their perspective, problems they wouldn't have if the evil Witch hadn't locked Dios up--a misguided attitude).

The cars are the movie's version of the million swords of human hatred.  The swords are just part of each person, symbolic of the hatred within that person (you hear them whisper, "Witch, cursed witch").  From what we see in the movie, by contrast, the cars are the whole of a person.  The swords seek to punish Anthy for "sealing Dios" by assaulting her.  The cars attack Anthy as well, but the context of their appearance and actions implies that they are attempting to punish Anthy by keeping her from leaving Ohtori.

That is why I put the cars on two teams: the Duellists' team, which seeks to assist Anthy in reaching the outside world (and expresses an intent to join her there someday), and the Swarm, which seeks to prevent Anthy from reaching the outside world (and, in contrast, want to remain 'living corpses' in Ohtori forever).

If Akio pulled a sword from a faceless student at Ohtori, would it be a unique sword like the ones drawn from the Duellists, or would it be a sword identical to the swords of human hatred?  I'm guessing the latter.  The cars are similar.  For the Duellists, and for any other character who has a desire to grow up and leave Ohtori, their car form is unique to them.  For the "faceless masses" of the student body, who live satisfied with the unchanging Ohtori, their car form is one of the black car swarm.

In the Duellists' "hearts", there is a desire for revolution/freedom from Ohtori.  In the Swarm's "hearts", there is a desire for stasis/to remain in Ohtori.  The Duellists are individuals, important characters we know.  The Swarm is also necessarily made up of individuals, some of whom we know.  And I feel that it does consist partially of the student body at Ohtori.  But it generally symbolizes the groupthinking humanity-at-large...  "everyone else".

It's not my opinion that the characters/student body said to themselves, "I should like to turn into a car for the purpose of either supporting to preventing change in Ohtori."  That would be a fairly odd thing to think.  No one really "chooses" to turn into a car.  They make other choices and those choices are exhibited by whether they turn into a car, what kind of car they turn into, and when that transformation occurs.

Rather, I contend it's a storytelling device.  Because the story has people turning into cars, and because one of the crucial themes of the story is "Are you going to take responsibility for your own life, become an adult, and leave Ohtori?  Or are you going to absolve yourself of any responsibility for your future, stay an adolescent, and remain at Ohtori?" we have these two different teams of cars.  The former team, with their high goals, gets individuality; the latter team, lacking mature identity, loses most of their individuality in their car form.  The former team uses their car form to leave Ohtori, or to assist others leaving Ohtori; the latter team uses their car form to prevent others from bringing change to Ohtori by leaving campus.

In the series, when we see the swords, it seems like they are saying... 'humanity' has in their hearts a fear of living without Dios...a tendency toward mob-mentality...a reflex to blame their plight on a scapegoat (Anthy, ostracized as a scarlet woman).  I would go so far as to say that 'humanity' assaults those that challenge their comfortable habits.  That's why the swords punish Anthy in the first place.  That's also why they awaken anew at the sight of the (new) Prince's sword.  Not only is the Prince above the "common man" (inciting jealousy), but the swords don't want any revolution.  Replace swords with cars here, and I think it all still applies.

Last edited by rhyaniwyn (12-04-2008 12:03:28 PM)


http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/absolethe/itrg_signature.jpg

Offline

 

#96 | Back to Top06-04-2011 03:46:55 AM

VictorVVV
Miki Molester
From: France
Registered: 06-04-2011
Posts: 31

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

What is the last appearance of Kozue in the anime ?

Offline

 

#97 | Back to Top06-04-2011 07:28:23 AM

Leeg
Juri Jeerer
From: Spain
Registered: 02-10-2010
Posts: 49
Website

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

VictorVVV wrote:

What is the last appearance of Kozue in the anime ?

Episode 37- while juri, utena and miki are playing with the racquets.

http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/15706-1/Series_ep37_143.jpg

Offline

 

#98 | Back to Top06-04-2011 01:43:06 PM

VictorVVV
Miki Molester
From: France
Registered: 06-04-2011
Posts: 31

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

Leeg wrote:

VictorVVV wrote:

What is the last appearance of Kozue in the anime ?

Episode 37- while juri, utena and miki are playing with the racquets.

http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/15706-1/Series_ep37_143.jpg

Ok thanks, I must rewatch.emot-wink

Offline

 

#99 | Back to Top06-05-2011 08:38:00 AM

Dallbun
Tour Guide to Crawling Chaos
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 719

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

Leeg wrote:

VictorVVV wrote:

What is the last appearance of Kozue in the anime ?

Episode 37- while juri, utena and miki are playing with the racquets.

Actually, she also appears in the background at the end of the last episode.

http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/17050-1/Series_ep39_276.jpg

Offline

 

#100 | Back to Top06-06-2011 11:31:30 PM

artemis88
Mikage Mistruster
Registered: 05-05-2011
Posts: 66

Re: Miki and his amazing Kozue car

incredible thread! so much food for thought.. wish I'd seen it before I posted my own emot-keke;

I agree with the theory that Miki & Kozue's confrontation scene is like a negative version of Utena & Anthy's confrontation in the Rose Garden, and foreshadows it

After Kozue threatens Miki, and Miki tells her they can't return to childhood.. well.. I think once Kozue learns that Miki isn't going to be forced, even at knife-point, back into her world, she loses her will to fight and like someone else said "fails Ohtori". yknow how they're always talking about cracking your eggshell in the anime, or else you'll die without truly being born.. I think that is what happened to Kozue. she has to start over.

people don't seem to be too aware of what happens to the dead in movie!Ohtori..
Utena's parents "went away" according to her, she never says they died
neither Utena or Shiori seemed to realize that Touga was dead until the end
Anthy was the only person in that world that seemed to be able to see/be aware of the living and the dead..

at the beginning of the movie, Utena finds a rose signet within a white rose (surrounded by red roses) at Akio's grave, right?

so Akio's suicide must have taken place before the movie began.. for all we know, what happened between Miki and Kozue happened before the movie began too, and perhaps Miki had even forgotten that Kozue existed, after all she seems to have just been removed from the world, with only a car and a rubber ducky left behind

I hope this makes some sense emot-redface

Last edited by artemis88 (06-07-2011 12:38:08 AM)

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB 1.2.23
© Copyright 2002–2008 PunBB
Forum styled and maintained by Giovanna and Yasha
Return to Empty Movement