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HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top06-22-2010 11:16:29 PM

limitless_desire
Juri Jeerer
From: United states
Registered: 06-14-2010
Posts: 40

utena + duels

Hey guys,
does it ever actually say how Utena learned her skills in dueling and fencing? O_O?etc-love

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#2 | Back to Top06-23-2010 12:03:18 AM

Dallbun
Tour Guide to Crawling Chaos
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 689

Re: utena + duels

Hey, welcome to the forums! emot-smile

No, it's never established whether Utena ever practiced any form of swordplay before the series. I suppose she could have, but she doesn't show any great interest in it... team sports seem to be more her thing.

Either her natural athleticism and talent carry her through, or skill really isn't a major factor in the duels (no matter what some of the characters might think). The series suggests the latter... Utena doesn't win the duels through her own skill, after all, and it's not what the duels seem to be testing for. Regardless of what's happening on-screen, each of the duels is really about one of the duelists facing their own psychological issues. You could easily say its a mix of both, though.

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#3 | Back to Top06-23-2010 10:50:57 AM

Ashnod
La poétesse revolutionnaire
From: Missouri, United States
Registered: 03-01-2007
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Re: utena + duels

You have to assume she has SOME training, though, otherwise challenging Saionji, the Captain of the Kendo team, in the first episode to a kendo match would have been foolhardy.


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#4 | Back to Top06-23-2010 11:34:21 AM

teyhy
High Tripper
From: Ecuador
Registered: 04-27-2010
Posts: 245
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Re: utena + duels

Well, Utena is not famous for thinking before acting, but yes is hard to believe that if Utena wanted to be a prince she wouldn't want to be skilled with a sword, after all princes are always pictured with swords. As for Saionji, maybe she wanted to: a)Put him in his place and what better way than to beat him in kendo, the club he is captain of. b) Challenging bad people to duels is what princes do, right?.


Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - H. Berlioz.
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#5 | Back to Top06-23-2010 07:06:05 PM

limitless_desire
Juri Jeerer
From: United states
Registered: 06-14-2010
Posts: 40

Re: utena + duels

I guess if you go with the theory that Utena wants to save princesses in distress then she would obviously learn how to fight and not be made helpless to save another woman, whether it be verbally or physically. The fact that she dresses like a guy might signify some of this to. SO in part, i guess it didn't need to be said in the story but i always wondered more about her background story and was curious what you guys thought too emot-keke. I couldn't see her throwing herself into a duel to save her friend if she didn't have the proper skills to, but the other students in the school seem to have a high interest in fencing...Jury is always fighting people and there never seems to be a shortage of fresh meat for her to fight so that might show something about their surroundings as well....

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#6 | Back to Top06-23-2010 09:20:13 PM

Dallbun
Tour Guide to Crawling Chaos
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 689

Re: utena + duels

teyhy wrote:

hard to believe that if Utena wanted to be a prince she wouldn't want to be skilled with a sword, after all princes are always pictured with swords.

Not necessarily, though.  Utena's own prince never used a sword and she doesn't have any experience riding horses even though princes are generally pictured with those, too. And she definitely doesn't own a sword or practice regularly.

I agree that the best indication that Utena had some sword experience is how readily she picked up a practice sword to challenge Saionji. But even that isn't necessarily telling, given Utena's general lack of forethought.

limitless_desire wrote:

Jury is always fighting people and there never seems to be a shortage of fresh meat for her to fight so that might show something about their surroundings as well....

There's no indication that the fencing club has a particularly high turnover rate. Juri always has much weaker club members to fight, but that seems to be more a reflection of Juri's skill.

In any case, Utena couldn't have done fencing or kendo at Ohtori, because if she had she would have been more familiar with the Student Council Members (and they would have remembered her, too, if she's actually as talented as she appears.)

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#7 | Back to Top06-23-2010 09:30:59 PM

limitless_desire
Juri Jeerer
From: United states
Registered: 06-14-2010
Posts: 40

Re: utena + duels

Dallbun wrote:

There's no indication that the fencing club has a particularly high turnover rate. Juri always has much weaker club members to fight, but that seems to be more a reflection of Juri's skill.

In any case, Utena couldn't have done fencing or kendo at Ohtori, because if she had she would have been more familiar with the Student Council Members (and they would have remembered her, too, if she's actually as talented as she appears.)

Couldnt this be dependent on her grade level as well? Jury is older then her as are most the class members(i think Mikey is younger) But it puts them in other parts of the school, and Utena has no desire to fight at least for no reason, i dont see her as the type to participate in a fencing club.

Last edited by limitless_desire (06-23-2010 09:32:05 PM)

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#8 | Back to Top06-23-2010 11:01:06 PM

Dallbun
Tour Guide to Crawling Chaos
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 689

Re: utena + duels

limitless_desire wrote:

Couldnt this be dependent on her grade level as well? Jury is older then her as are most the class members(i think Mikey is younger) But it puts them in other parts of the school,

Miki is a middle school student, and Juri is a high school student, and they practice together in the same club. It's possible that Utena was in some kind of elementary school swordplay club, but I wouldn't expect that that to give her a very high level of skill, especially if she hasn't been keeping it up for the last one or two years.

Utena could also have transferred to Ohtori at some point: she did in the manga, but there's no particular evidence that she did in the anime.

and Utena has no desire to fight at least for no reason, i dont see her as the type to participate in a fencing club.

Yeah. I think it's reasonable to assume that she'd picked up a sword and swung it around before, but a bit of a stretch to say that she'd had any significant amount of formal training.

This talk about Utena wanting to act defend others makes me think, though... between that and her cross-dressing, I'm sure she must have gotten in fights somewhere down the line. I'll bet she could beat up most of the other characters. emot-tongue

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#9 | Back to Top06-23-2010 11:04:57 PM

limitless_desire
Juri Jeerer
From: United states
Registered: 06-14-2010
Posts: 40

Re: utena + duels

Dallbun wrote:

This talk about Utena wanting to act defend others makes me think, though... between that and her cross-dressing, I'm sure she must have gotten in fights somewhere down the line. I'll bet she could beat up most of the other characters. emot-tongue

LOL i don't doubt that she couldn't! out of all the guys and women in this show i would hate to piss her off royally xD (unless someone was standing in front of me as a human shield emot-tongue

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#10 | Back to Top06-24-2010 01:40:35 PM

teyhy
High Tripper
From: Ecuador
Registered: 04-27-2010
Posts: 245
Website

Re: utena + duels

You guys are right, thinking about what happened to Mikage; I really wouldn't want to get in a fight with her. Lucky for everyone, Utena is not generally a violent person.
Another person you don't want to annoy in Ohtori is Anthy; those who do don't really know what's coming to them. Thinking about it, if you pick a fight with Utena you better watch out, for Anthy surely would be involved.

Last edited by teyhy (06-24-2010 01:41:21 PM)


Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - H. Berlioz.
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad133/teyhy/for%20fo/Untitled-1copy.jpg?t=1280266589

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#11 | Back to Top06-24-2010 05:06:08 PM

limitless_desire
Juri Jeerer
From: United states
Registered: 06-14-2010
Posts: 40

Re: utena + duels

teyhy wrote:

You guys are right, thinking about what happened to Mikage; I really wouldn't want to get in a fight with her. Lucky for everyone, Utena is not generally a violent person.
Another person you don't want to annoy in Ohtori is Anthy; those who do don't really know what's coming to them. Thinking about it, if you pick a fight with Utena you better watch out, for Anthy surely would be involved.

Now that you make that point... i fear Anthy more. Anthy does the psychological torture that Utena doesn't lol i would be able to take a few beatings but the mental games she plays on people last a lifetime.

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#12 | Back to Top06-26-2010 04:01:49 PM

teyhy
High Tripper
From: Ecuador
Registered: 04-27-2010
Posts: 245
Website

Re: utena + duels

Yes, Anthy can be very scary specially with her shiny glasses.
But one thing that I notice in the manga is that Utena practice archery and likes to cook, so maybe it is not such a stretch to say she has a little experience with the sword.
Another thing in the duels that called my attention is that the duels have a schedule. In episode 9 Anthy said that duelist shouldn't go to the dueling arena if they didn't have a letter from End of the world. However, someone here point out that if you lose a duel as the champion you could challenge the new victor without a letter from End of the world.


Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - H. Berlioz.
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad133/teyhy/for%20fo/Untitled-1copy.jpg?t=1280266589

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#13 | Back to Top06-27-2010 05:49:21 AM

limitless_desire
Juri Jeerer
From: United states
Registered: 06-14-2010
Posts: 40

Re: utena + duels

I hadn't finished the whole series with the post, but now that i have i think she might have come across basic fencing but her nobility and her prince was what really helped her win all her duels. Not actually her skills herself. xD

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#14 | Back to Top06-27-2010 06:50:20 AM

Dallbun
Tour Guide to Crawling Chaos
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 689

Re: utena + duels

limitless_desire wrote:

I hadn't finished the whole series with the post, but now that i have i think she might have come across basic fencing but her nobility and her prince was what really helped her win all her duels. Not actually her skills herself. xD

Indeed. All she had known before episode 38 were play duels. emot-wink

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