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HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top01-10-2007 12:04:34 AM

Ivy-chan
Unfulfilled Juror
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 232

Overanalyzing Throwaway Lines

Has anyone else found themselves analyzing a line that is of no general importance to the whole scheme of the anime, the main plot, or even one of the many subplots? For instance, the mention of a sister school in Amsterdam sent me into spasms of speculation: were there duels going on in tandem with the Japanese duels? Did Akio switch schools during each duel cycle? Which was the original school? Etc.

Here's one I've been recently thinking about: in episode 11, the student council aside from Saionji, who's been expelled, are discussing Nanami's recent duel and her failure. Juri points out that she was meant to fail and that Touga had calculated it from the beginning. Touga returns with this:

Touga:  It's regrettable that you see it that way.
Touga:  Since I always try to treat Nanami with affection...

And Miki comments:

Miki
:  Like a pet cat?

See, I found that line striking. This is just after the Nanami-centric episode featuring her history with Touga, including the infamous kitten that she drowned. In fact, that kitten is a main motif in that episode, the image basically encapsulating Nanami's relationship with Touga and her desire to keep him to herself, with no outside influences. At the birthday party, Touga receives a kitten from Anthy and we learn that he's a big cat lover, and just watching Touga play with the kitten sparks off Nanami's memory of that event. In conclusion, the kitten is huge. It's interesting that this comment comes directly after that episode.

After Miki makes that comment, there is a significant pause. (Actually, Miki times it as 6.12 seconds.) Why did that comment seem to throw Touga off like that? Well, yes, the obvious and less conspiracy-theory answer would be because it's a surpisingly blunt and insightful comment. However, it just made me wonder if Touga actually found out how the kitten died, or if Miki had been told of Touga's pet kitten that disappeared and was making an even more pointed comment with that knowledge.


If I have seen farther than others, it is because I was standing on the shoulders of giants.
-Isaac Newton

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#2 | Back to Top01-10-2007 12:08:57 AM

ShatteredMirror
Yaoi Pet #1
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 8858

Re: Overanalyzing Throwaway Lines

I'm in the camp that thinks Touga knows why the kitten disappeared. He might not know for sure but it would be in his nature to suspect Nanami of getting rid of it since it's the kind of thing that he'd do if he felt that he had to. I don't think that Miki would know about the cat because he'd have no reason to - the only person whom we know for a fact knows what happened is Nanami and she wouldn't tell Miki about it.


Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source.

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#3 | Back to Top01-10-2007 08:41:56 AM

Dani
IRG Messiah
From: Virginia, USA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 361

Re: Overanalyzing Throwaway Lines

I also think Touga knows exactly what happened to the cat and that he told Akio. And that's why Anthy gives Touga (who's in on the whole scheme) a kitten for his birthday in front of Nanami and Utena. Nanami sees Touga with Anthy's kitten and immediately challenges Utena to a duel, which allows Touga to give Nanami her duellist ring in front of Utena.

Touga really did a number on Nanami. He contrives to injure himself on Saionji's blade, not only to mess with Saionji, but also to get Nanami mad at Utena, then he makes a big deal about Utena bringing him flowers to make Nanami jealous (which Utena only did because Anthy suggested it) , then he punches her guilt button about the kitten. All this = bingo, new duellist. What a crappy brother. (Sorry Touga fans! I love Touga's character but he is terrible to Nanami, a character I also adore because in any other anime, she'd be a cookie cutter cardboard bitchy villain but not in SKU of course).

As for Miki's coincidental comment, I tend to think that's a chuckle for the audience (and a stab at Touga's guilty conscience maybe?), but that Miki doesn't really know the signicance of what he is saying. And to reinforce with the audience that the cat was part of Touga's scheme if we didn't get it already.

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#4 | Back to Top01-10-2007 09:02:00 AM

Iris
Queen of the Video Box
From: The whispers of twilight
Registered: 12-28-2006
Posts: 2124

Re: Overanalyzing Throwaway Lines

This is quite possibly one of my favorite little peices of diolouge in SKU, seeing Miki's casual but harsh analysis of the situation, and Touga's surprize.  I think that Touga did know exactly what happened, expecially after the whole line of events.
I always thought that the reason that Touga acted so surprized, is that it's such a cutting line, spoken by somoene who's opinions that are negitive and dark are normally kept so much to himself.  I might be wrong about my impression of Miki, but that's the way it seemed to me.


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f29/IrisBeloved/piano.png

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#5 | Back to Top01-10-2007 09:39:23 AM

Dani
IRG Messiah
From: Virginia, USA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 361

Re: Overanalyzing Throwaway Lines

Iris wrote:

This is quite possibly one of my favorite little peices of diolouge in SKU, seeing Miki's casual but harsh analysis of the situation, and Touga's surprize.  I think that Touga did know exactly what happened, expecially after the whole line of events.
I always thought that the reason that Touga acted so surprized, is that it's such a cutting line, spoken by somoene who's opinions that are negitive and dark are normally kept so much to himself.  I might be wrong about my impression of Miki, but that's the way it seemed to me.

Hmm, so you think Miki did know, just by observing the situation? That's a possibility. Hmm, that would make that line one of the rare times Miki would speak a harsh word against Touga who he seems to look up to.

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#6 | Back to Top01-10-2007 10:14:04 AM

Syuria
Touga Topper
From: Brighton
Registered: 01-01-2007
Posts: 53
Website

Re: Overanalyzing Throwaway Lines

It is quite a cutting and dark remark, but I too doubt Nanami would've told anyone, let alone Miki, about the incident involving the kitten. I'm pretty sure Miki didn't realise the full implication of his remark, but the fact he stunned Touga into silence for such a time (well, for Touga a long time...) is pretty significant. Sometimes I don't think Miki is quite the meek and polite young man he seems to be, heheh.

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#7 | Back to Top01-10-2007 11:07:09 AM

alexielnet
Unfulfilled Juror
From: Arizona
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 236
Website

Re: Overanalyzing Throwaway Lines

Well it is kind of a layered comment. On one level, Miki simply makes a connection between his attitude towards his sister and an attitude one would have towards a pet cat. It's not a kind remark mostly because it dehumanizes Nanami. The second, and far darker level, comes from what the audience, and possible Touga, already knows--this family has an unfortunate history with cats. Although Nanami is the cat-killer in the family, the comment in this context suggests the darker dynamic between them. I think it is rather unlikely that Miki knew about the dead cat and that he was merely using the first level of the comment (which is still kind of a biting remark). Of course one could argue that he must have known because he said "pet cat" rather than "pet dog" or "pet cow", but I think that it is possible for a character to say something increduably accurate and true without knowing the full extent of what he/she is saying. Either way, it is a pretty significant remark.

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#8 | Back to Top01-10-2007 11:23:24 AM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 588

Re: Overanalyzing Throwaway Lines

Maybe Saionji witnessed it and told Touga. Maybe Nanami confessed it. Maybe Touga discerned it. Anyway if you take the Peanuts gang, age a few years, add hormones, add the malign influence of Akio and you get the current duellists. No, that's too simple, these people probably suffered a lot of actual abuse as children. It's quite possible that they have all known each other from quite a while earlier and know a fair number of each others' secrets.

Amsterdam is doubtless an inside joke among the Be-papas gang.

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#9 | Back to Top01-10-2007 12:46:29 PM

Ragnarok
Caption Captor
From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4472
Website

Re: Overanalyzing Throwaway Lines

Miki was at Touga's party, so he saw Anthy's gift was indeed a kitten. (Of course he'd notice what Anthy's gift was. emot-rolleyes ) In fact, Touga shows more love and affection to the kitten than he ever seems to give Nanami. Then it's gone by the end of the episode, cast away like a passing fancy.

On the topic of good, biting remarks from Miki:

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/RagnarokIII/parsley.jpg

"Dirt. Crumbs... Parsley."


http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/RagnarokIII/spyschool.jpg

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#10 | Back to Top01-10-2007 01:22:09 PM

Lightice
Azure Paleontologist
From: Finland
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 1255

Re: Overanalyzing Throwaway Lines

Ragnarok wrote:

In fact, Touga shows more love and affection to the kitten than he ever seems to give Nanami.

Well, that isn't entirely true. There are several moments where he does seem to care about Nanami, but he's making a point of keeping all that in check, for his greater goals and, not unimportantly, due his unfinished maturation. Touga is in the age where people make distance to their families, beyond the earlier teenage-rebellion days that are mainly for show. Sometimes it seems that I'm the only one who thinks of Touga with the terms of the age he actually is...


Hei! Aa-Shanta 'Nygh!

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#11 | Back to Top01-10-2007 01:25:55 PM

Ragnarok
Caption Captor
From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4472
Website

Re: Overanalyzing Throwaway Lines

None of that contradicts what I said, though. emot-wink Regardless of his motivations, Touga is more reserved with his sister than he is with the kitten. And certainly so from the impression that Miki would get.


http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/RagnarokIII/spyschool.jpg

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