You are not logged in.

#26 | Back to Top10-05-2007 02:11:47 PM

dollface
Postmistress Elf of Subtext
From: North Carolina
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 5086
Website

Re: On-Topic Shiori Rambling

Alright, time for my Movie!Shiori rambling. So much has been said over Series!Shiori, I feel like I have nothing to add that won't become repetitive. Maybe later. But now, Movie!

The thing that I find interesting about Shiori and Juri in the movie is that there is no real proof that Juri loves her. Now, I'm not arguing that point, because I believe that she probably does. But as I was watching the movie, I noticed that there really is nothing to say she loves her. Shiori, we assume, loved Touga while he was still alive, and because of Juri, he drowned in the river. Juri didn't mean for this to happen, and I'm sure that somewhere in the back of Shiori's mind, she knows this. But it doesn't change the fact that she is a princess without her prince. So, is she doomed to become a witch? In the twisted world that is SKU, the alternative to that would be to find a new prince. Shiori states that she will make Juri play the prince. Juri may simply feel guilt. At that time, they were young, and Shiori was essentially pure. She was innocent, but I don't believe that it underlined cruelty. Not yet. Juri may blame herself for the death of this prince, and she may feel as though she needs to protect Shiori. Of course, this idea is not discouraged. Shiori still holds anger within herself over Touga, and simply feels a little better knowing that she can string Juri along without becoming a witch. Juri still holds a locket of Shiori, and still fights because Shiori asks her to. But there is still a chance that this is not out of love. It may be out of honor, duty. Everything that constrains her. I always find their relationship in the movie to be interesting and debatable to no end.

But anyway, I still do think that Juri loves Shiori in some way, shape, or form.

Moving right along, I have to wonder sometimes if Movie!Shiori is mentally stable. I know how insulting that sounds, but I honestly don't mean it in a bad way. You never really see her in the school, or talking with anyone other than Juri. She seems to stay in a white room with Touga most of the time. She steps out once-- goading Juri into dueling, watching for a short moment, producing that video tape, and racing Utena/Anthy in car form. Between all these scenes, very little time has changed, so I assume it all happened one after the other. The only indication that Shiori may have returned to her room is during the night. She has just gone to Juri, and it cuts away to the scene of Utena and Anthy dancing the night away. It seems unlikely that she partied with Juri all night, but it's possible! Now, there are a few things I make note of:

1. The room. The room she (presumably) shares with Touga is completely covered in white sheets. I always imagined this was to represent Touga's current state. At one point a sheet is draped over him, as you would in a morgue. But if all of this was only intended to apply to Touga, why is he never shown alone? Shiori is always with him in the room. White sheets also make me think of a research lab or an insane asylum. Perhaps this was meant to befall Shiori. She very clearly is not in her right mind through a good portion of the movie. For a girl to never leave a room (with a ghost, no less!) and seemingly never attend school...? Perhaps Shiori truly is mentally unstable. I mean, at a very young age she saw the boy she loved (for lack of better term) die, and now her only means of happiness are manipulating others through their grief and guilt. She lives in a world she will never escape from. When she even attempts, she speaks in a very maniacal manner. Not in the normal, SKU-way either. IMO, I can say with almost certainty that Movie!Shiori is more mad than Mikage.

2. The tape. Why does she have it, and how does she obtain it? Is she able to communicate with Shadows? Well, she's banging a ghost, so it doesn't surprise me. She speaks of the tape, saying that it is proof that Anthy killed her brother. After hearing this, Utena goes off in search of Anthy. Was this a trap? To send Utena on a wild chase, perhaps knowing that Touga would be waiting for her? But when you watch the tape, you see the truth. Anthy did not kill her brother, and there "never was a real prince". I assume that Shiori has seen the tape, and yet she still lies about the content. But what I wonder is, did she do it to help or to hurt? I know, the idea of Shiori doing anything to help another is completely ludicrous. But maybe she lied about the tape in order to catch Utena's attention, and the attention of the masses. She may have hoped they would all see it, and would come to realize that there never was a prince, just as Utena did. Perhaps knowing the secret of this fairytale kingdom would help others to understand. Maybe even to escape, though because of her anger at Utena, I find it hard to believe so. Maybe she wanted everyone to know the truth, because knowing the truth would not hurt Anthy, nor Utena, nor anyone else (I don't mean hurt emotionally, because god knows it would hit hard with Kanae, but hurt their reputation. Slander would have been a better word I guess). She could have spoken with Touga and Anthy, having Utena led on that chase to Touga. Shiori might have wanted her to know what happened with Touga, and know that he could be with her now. He tells her that they could be happy together, loving until the end of time. This might have been Shiori's planning all along. But Utena doesn't want that. Utena is our true prince, and though she loves Touga, she has to save Anthy and herself from this illusion. No one can say whether Shiori wanted Utena to stay for positive or negative reasons, but it's clear that she didn't want her to leave, and was willing to sacrifice her body in order to stop her.

Of course, it seems far more likely that if Shiori is truly pulling some strings, she is doing it out of malice. Perhaps she wanted everyone to know that there was never a real prince so that they would stop their foolish dreaming. Just as she forces Juri into her role, she could be willing to force others. Perhaps she even wants to take over this kingdom herself. But what we know is that Utena, in Shiori's eyes, is not worthy of leaving this kingdom. She claims that she is the only one who deserves to leave, and as she says this, her car is hit by multiple traffic cones before her ultimate crash. I saw this as symbolism; everything Shiori has endured up to that point, everything laid upon her in her darkest moments, every wrong thing she's done for what she believes is the way things should be, and the eventual destruction of her sanity. Although many people claim that Shiori is the true villain of the movie, when I hear her lines in that car scene, I don't feel anger, and I don't have any sort of negative feelings about how she treats Utena and Anthy. I feel sorry, and I feel that princely urge to protect her. I don't know if I'm the only one that hears it, but when she speaks in that moment, her voice almost seems shaky. I don't think it sounds hateful. I think she sounds scared, and I definitely hear traces of a breakdown. A girl that has been tortured until she could handle no more. And the funny thing is, she is the one who causes it. She puts herself through such hardship, because she refuses to let the world hurt her again. Perhaps after everything she's seen, everything she's come to know, she sees the academy as her shot at the prize. It will be under her control for an eternity. But, in a moment of clarity, I think that the crash was what she may have needed, perhaps even wanted. I don't think she deserves death, but she deserves some rest. She deserves an escape, and obviously this was the closest she would come.

...This seemed longer and more intelligent as I was typing it. Guess not.

Last edited by dollface (12-07-2009 05:50:44 PM)


ah, man does not exist; ah, within the darkness; ah, the sound of the waves

Offline

 

#27 | Back to Top10-05-2007 02:34:01 PM

NajiMinkin
Hacker Ringleader
From: The Incredible Edible Egg
Registered: 06-23-2007
Posts: 2537

Re: On-Topic Shiori Rambling

dollface wrote:

The room she (presumably) shares with Touga is completely covered in white sheets. I always imagined this was to represtent Touga's current state. At one point a sheet is draped over him, as you would in a morgue. But if all of this was only intended to apply to Touga, why is he never shown alone? Shiori is always with him in the room. White sheets also make me think of a research lab or an insane asylum.

White sheets make me think of ghosts at Halloween. You know, the little kid with a sheet over his head and the two eye holes poked out. emot-dance

Great analysis's, guys. Especially this latest one, Dollface.
It's so different from what I get out of the movie.


http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f64/_u_t_e_n_a_/100x100/starryklimtsig.png

Offline

 

#28 | Back to Top10-05-2007 02:51:35 PM

dollface
Postmistress Elf of Subtext
From: North Carolina
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 5086
Website

Re: On-Topic Shiori Rambling

Thank you! Yeah, the only reason I really typed it was because it wasn't something I'd seen already, and I'd hate to just feed off the brilliance of Razara (and others of course!).


ah, man does not exist; ah, within the darkness; ah, the sound of the waves

Offline

 

#29 | Back to Top10-05-2007 03:24:47 PM

Jellineck
Wondrous Sexual Eggplant.
From: Under your bed
Registered: 08-02-2007
Posts: 894

Re: On-Topic Shiori Rambling

I'm tempted, since I've always wanted to do an SKU roleplay. My only concern is that I've already had my hopes and dreams of being apart of an SKU roleplay get crushed once due to a lack of people willing to join. That and I've heard horror stories about roleplays on MySpace. (I really do need to make an account one of these days, but the fact that the name "Razara" is taken killed what little interest I had.)

That's the problem. So many have fallen through that few are willing to try anymore. Unfortunately, my two other participants seem to be unresponsive, so it's just me and NajiMinkin. However, I don't necessarily consider that a bad thing. A lot can be done with a small number of enthusiastic people. As for MySpace, I've been on there for years, and I've never really had a problem. It's like anything else on the net. You don't put out personal info, you accept people you know, and you play it safe.

Dollface...

1. I'd love to read your work sometime.

2. Interesting analysis. Shiori is one of the few parts that I really liked in the movie. A bold mon Ikuhara's part, to include such an unpopular character. I always thought the movie was the ultimate fanservice. We get hot naked action between Anthy and Utena (their relationship is far  from the slightest question of sexuality), a princely Touga, and Shiori dies (or at least as much as she can in Ohtori). But reading over that makes it somewhat redemptive.

Do you have any thoughts on why Touga and Shiori? The two have virtually no connection in the series, and it has always made me wonder. Is it an alliance of two manipulators? A bond struck between two people trapped in their prisons? Is Touga a figment of Shiori's memories as much as he is Utena's? The last one is the most appealing to me. To Shiori, he appears as sexual and manipulative, what she would want. To Utena, the inspiration for her freedom and a far more protective character. Maybe it is only Shiori's "death" that really frees him from the school.

Although many people claim that Shiori is a true villain of the movie, when I hear her lines in that car scene, I don't feel anger, and I don't have any sort of negative feelings about how she treats Utena and Anthy.

Though my personal feelings are similar to yours, I do find it interesting that she is really painted for most purposes as the only really effective villain. Touga is a far more benevolent character than in the series, and Akio is just some ghostly priss. Shiori takes over most of the maneuvering and manipulations. I found it rather refreshing to see her calling the shots.

I feel sorry, and I feel that princely urge to protect her.

Isn't it ironic we all seem to prefer Shiori over Juri, and yet we all have Juri's opinions of her and the desire to protect her? I have to wonder if all my speculation on Shiori is really focused on a connection to her or to Juri. Hm.

On to Yasha...

Also, she needs to enjoy it more. If you're going to hurt someone, do it right.

Haha! Yes, that is my main point of distaste for Shiori. One can admire Touga and Akio's manipulation as if they were art forms. Morally sound or no, they are clearly masters of their skill. On a purely artistic level, Shiori pales in comparison. She's far too susceptible to manipulation herself.


"You said you would do anything for me, right Mamiya?" Mikage purred as he slithered close. "Yes that's right" Mamiya said with a rosey blush. Mikage's smile was evil and cinister as he reached into his pocket and pulled out a banana. "Eeny meeny myny moo. I wonder where my banana will go?" - The Forbidden Passions of Nemuro

Offline

 

#30 | Back to Top10-05-2007 05:09:10 PM

Razara
Marionette Mistress
From: Wuzzy Happy Akio Town (What?)
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 4694

Re: On-Topic Shiori Rambling

dollface wrote:

Amazing Movie-Shiori Analysis

I'm glad that I didn't post my views on Movie-Shiori, since this is a million times better than anything I ever thought of. emot-aaa I think that I like Movie-Shiori a whole lot more now, and I already loved her to begin with.

Yasha wrote:

Also, I posted here to say hello to my little mistress. Have you been good, dear? school-devil

Of course. Would you have expected me to have been anything but good...? emot-wink

By the way, I love your new title. etc-love

Offline

 

#31 | Back to Top10-06-2007 08:48:50 PM

Ragnarok
Caption Captor
From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4472
Website

Re: On-Topic Shiori Rambling

dollface wrote:

1. The room. The room she (presumably) shares with Touga is completely covered in white sheets. I always imagined this was to represtent Touga's current state. At one point a sheet is draped over him, as you would in a morgue. But if all of this was only intended to apply to Touga, why is he never shown alone? Shiori is always with him in the room. White sheets also make me think of a research lab or an insane asylum. Perhaps this was meant to befall Shiori. She very clearly is not in her right mind through a good portion of the movie. For a girl to never leave a room, a room with a ghost no less, and seemingly never attend school...? Perhaps Shiori truly is mentally unstable. I mean, at a very young age she saw the boy she loved (for lack of better term) die, and now her only means of happiness are manipulating others through their grief and guilt. She lives in a world she will never escape from. When she even attempts, she speaks in a very maniacal manner. Not in the normal, SKU-way either. IMO, I can say with almost certainty that Movie!Shiori is more mad than Mikage.

Great stuff, dollface! For some reason this section in particular makes me want to see a SKU themed horror movie.


http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/RagnarokIII/spyschool.jpg

Offline

 

#32 | Back to Top10-06-2007 09:24:35 PM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 589

Re: On-Topic Shiori Rambling

Why does Shiori scribble Keroppan on Touga's back?
If we know who Keroppan is, will we understand Shiori?
Why does the "Poison" theme music start when Shiori is snuggling up to Juri?

Offline

 

#33 | Back to Top04-25-2008 05:47:59 AM

bea
Saionji Slapper
From: Milan, Italy
Registered: 05-24-2007
Posts: 27

Re: On-Topic Shiori Rambling

This is weird, I was in the middle of a "Thorns of death" rewatch and I suddenly realised I had never noticed how Shiori keeps a bunch of ORANGE roses in the vase up in her room. I mean, maybe this is me in super-dense mode, but isn't it like keeping a part of Juri up there with herself when she's alone?

[And really, getting back to the basics and thinking about Juri's flashbacks, why did Shiori hand her that rose in the first place? I can't seem to find a reason to explain that ATM - the only thing I can come up with is that it was a means of expressing the depth of Shiori's feelings for Juri, but wouldn't it be at least queer to present a female friend with a rose? Maybe it's a matter of cultural background, but I personally would never do that unless I had an interest in that girl...


Seeking eternity!
[take my r-evolution]

Offline

 

#34 | Back to Top04-25-2008 06:39:23 AM

Adrasteia
Memorial Hollerer
From: Newfoundland, Canada
Registered: 11-15-2007
Posts: 694
Website

Re: On-Topic Shiori Rambling

Somebody said earlier in the thread that Shiori loves the idea of Juri more than Juri herself, and I think they were spot on. The fact that Shiori offered Juri a rose is unlikely a sign of romantic interest, but more representative of Shiori's longing to strengthen her connection to Juri. Shiori doesn't ever see herself on the same level as Juri, so she does everything in her power to maintain a relationship with the person she idolizes. Juri enjoys sweet, innocent Shiori, and I think Shiori, having figured this out, plays upon Juri's perception of her to ensure that they are still linked together. Handing Juri a flower is an innocent and delicate act, and sure to pierce Juri's fierce and stoic exterior. It was an action which ensured she didn't lose her link to Juri - as I said before, I find it really hard to believe that Shiori is capable to initiating a romantic relationship with someone she has placed so high on a pedaestal.

But like Yasha said, Shiori's fascination with Juri could easily develop into sexual interest, especially at a school where bisexuality is the norm. emot-tongue If Juri initiated a romantic encounter with Shiori, I'm 100% positive Shiori would go along with it(if only to use it as a tool against Juri in the future).

Offline

 

#35 | Back to Top04-25-2008 03:17:03 PM

Razara
Marionette Mistress
From: Wuzzy Happy Akio Town (What?)
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 4694

Re: On-Topic Shiori Rambling

One can only assume that the scene where she gives Juri the rose was simply a day when the three of them were hanging out as friends. She watches Juri and "Koutaro" duel, and when Juri wins, she supposedly takes a rose from the vase on a nearby table and gives it to Juri, probably nothing more than a gesture of congratulations between friends. Shiori shows up to watch fencing matches quite often, from what we see, and in this particular case the way she watches makes her seem almost like Anthy's roll as a Rose Bride during the duels. Juri has proven herself as the superior duelist, yet she chooses Koutaro because, like Anthy, "A girl could never be her prince."

Of course, like Anthy, that all goes to hell eventually and Juri ends up being her prince, anyway. However, this all adds to the debate of whether or not Anthy and Utena or Juri and Shiori are really in love/lesbians/having sex, and I honestly don't care. Pretend that the revolution turned everyone gay so that their previous orientation doesn't matter.

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB 1.2.23
© Copyright 2002–2008 PunBB
Forum styled and maintained by Giovanna and Yasha
Return to Empty Movement