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HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top08-30-2007 07:51:18 PM

Archambeau
Muffy, the Forums Trophy Wife
Registered: 11-20-2006
Posts: 499

"The Character" vs. "The Person"

As a fan of two of the series' least-popular characters, Nanami and Saionji, I'm interested to see what causes others to like and dislike certain members of the cast.  I've noticed a trend in which those who like the less-sympathetic characters do so more on a basis of the literary device a character serves, rather than the character's readily apparent personality.  In short, liking them as characters, but not as people.

Who are you a fan of that you would most likely never get along with in real life?  Or, conversely, who do you not care for much in the series, but would enjoy interacting with?

For example, I love Nanami as a character.  The shift in her from comic relief and minor antagonist to one of the few who "gets it," along with Saionji, is such an interesting evolution of character, and speaks to her being more than just a petty socialite.  I enjoy watching her character interact with the world of the series.  As a person, though, I'm sure I could only stand her in small doses.  Her extreme personality would quickly grate, as would her histrionics. Saionji is one I'm on the fence about.  I love his character, but as a person I'd more than likely lose my patience with his obstinacy and self-loathing.

On the opposite end, I've never had much interest in Miki as a character, though I'm sure we'd get along famously.

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#2 | Back to Top08-30-2007 08:06:58 PM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
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Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

I think I know what you are driving at Muffy, for instance I am fond of Nanami as a character thanks to watching the entire SKU series, but as a person, I would most likely tried to have as little to do with the pompous, backstabbing little bitch, well at least not during the first and second arc, but after episode 39, she might have improved enough to be someone I could get along with.

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#3 | Back to Top08-30-2007 09:08:27 PM

Mai_Kanzaki
Ohtori Paramouri
From: Left of Nowhere, Ohio
Registered: 02-18-2007
Posts: 93
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Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

As characters I like each cast member for typical reasons Nanami for the comic relief, Juri's HOT anti-heroism, Touga's rocky path to enlightenment, humanizing Saionji and so on and so forth but as people...

Gee I wouldn't approach any of the student council honestly. I think the only one that wouldn't unwittingly suffer my burning cynicism (that a word?) might be Miki. Though sneaking into the rose garden to just hang out with Anthy feels like something I would do in a "strange ones" stick together sort of way. I guess it would vary with who my peers are. Extrapilating(I'm making up words again...) from Nanami's recent birthday thread I'd be in 8th grade series-wise.  I would be one of Utena's fangirls though I wouldn't admit it freely. I do think she's cool for the apparent rebellion against gender roles. If I ran into Shiori like Utena did I'd probably hang out with her after all she seemed nice enough. Had a minor crush on a cheerful girl like Wakaba during school so I'd say I like her as a person at least though the thing for Saionji would exasperate me.Though if I ever met Nanami's trio while they're in intimidation mode one word repeatedly. FIGHT!FIGHT!FIGHT!!! Yeah as people they can rot as far as I care. Akio's too big a ball of issues as far as I'm concerned I'd lump him in with the student council.


emot-gonk THINK MUN-KEY!

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#4 | Back to Top08-30-2007 10:17:11 PM

Stormcrow
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From: Los Angeles
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Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

Hmm...I think I'd cheerfully strangle most of the characters if I met them in real life. But then, I sometimes feel like strangling my friends in real life too.

Saionji and Kozue are two of my favorite characters (Yeesh, how's that for a pairing? She'd tear that poor bastard apart!)...I try to picture hanging out with one of them...it could be fun. Well, only the later Saionji, obviously. But the fact is, I get along with most people. I'm just not that demanding.


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#5 | Back to Top08-30-2007 10:37:55 PM

SleepDebtFairy
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From: Virginia
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2095

Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

I think that's really true for a lot of people and their favourite characters. Mostly, I think it is because in the series, you get to see things from the character's point of view, and get inside them. (No, not that way!) You get to learn what makes them do the things they do. If you met someone like the character in person, though, you would just get an outsider's point of view.

Let's see.. Anthy is my favourite, but if I met her in person..? She would probably creep me out, or annoy me, depending on how clueless I am of her passive-aggressiveness. Utena, I could probably get along with, but she's easy to get along with. Kozue... I'd probably be intimidated by her but think that she's hot. emot-keke Nanami would annoy the hell out of me. Ruka would too, for being such a smug bastard.


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#6 | Back to Top08-30-2007 10:56:16 PM

NajiMinkin
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From: The Incredible Edible Egg
Registered: 06-23-2007
Posts: 2537

Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

Here's how it would go down with my four favorite characters:

I'd see Nanami as a screaming, two-faced, melodramatic asshat. Eventually, I'd notice her weird obsession with her slut of a brother and feel majorly creeped out.

If Anthy and I ever became acquainted, I'd take a different approach on the path of Utena and encourage her to be more outgoing. We'd be a forced kind of friends, but she's my type nonetheless.

I'd hate Juri. emot-frown She'd seem conceited and bitchy. Assuming that Shiori only acts evil with her, we'd probably make friends and mock those stupid curls and her ugly attitude together.

I'd think Akio was the sexiest thing on earth, but in a nice way. emot-rofl


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#7 | Back to Top08-31-2007 01:19:23 AM

Archambeau
Muffy, the Forums Trophy Wife
Registered: 11-20-2006
Posts: 499

Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

I think I'd get a completely platonic kick out of Touga.  For all his promiscuity and manipulation, he does seem to be the most well-adjusted of the council.  I imagine good conversation, easy-going and enjoyable.

I think Shiori is one of the best examples of the duality of characterization and personality.  The peek inside her head we get, and the "lens of Juri" that we see her through, paints her quite unfavorably.  By contrast, though, seeing her with other friends, or in her interactions with Utena, shows a much more likable girl.  Putting them together presents us with, really, a very average sixteen-year-old.  As long as her inferiority complex didn't interfere with things, I think I would be friends with her as well.  She's very perceptive (if not a little too perceptive, leading to misunderstandings and manipulation), and would probably have surprisingly interesting things to say.

Utena would make me roll my eyes.  She's so transparent that it's almost embarrassing.

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#8 | Back to Top08-31-2007 04:45:50 AM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
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Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

Its ironic that the traditionally most maligned characters in the general SKU fandom outside of IRG, Shiori and Kozue are fairly likely to be the sort of people most of us would be able to get along with the easiest.

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#9 | Back to Top08-31-2007 05:26:05 AM

Archambeau
Muffy, the Forums Trophy Wife
Registered: 11-20-2006
Posts: 499

Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

I strongly dislike both Kozue the character and Kozue the person.

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#10 | Back to Top08-31-2007 11:49:52 AM

Tenjou_sailorsaturn
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From: Floating Castle
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 2417
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Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

Let me see... for the student council, I think I can get along well with Juri and Miki (for Juri, there is a condition that she won't get freaked out of me emot-wink) especially Juri, because we are a bit alike in character. Miki is a person I think really easy to get along.
I would hate Touga thoroughly. I personally HATE playboys.
My favorite is Utena, if I meet her in person, I think we would get along well at first, but some misunderstanding would seperate us. Not to hate her in the end, but just can never be friends again.
Nanami... I would keep myself away from her as far as I can. I don't want to interact with her and her hench girls at all. I find them a source of trouble.
I can be a classmate of Kozue, but not a friend of Kozue. (start to worry if I would look too close with her brother...)
I can't befriend Anthy. I find her too subtle to get an actual conversation with her, leaving me no chance to know her more. However, if there's Utena with her, then we may get along.


生命是奇蹟,但是為什麼生活是痛苦的?

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#11 | Back to Top08-31-2007 12:59:38 PM

Razara
Marionette Mistress
From: Wuzzy Happy Akio Town (What?)
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 4694

Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

Shiori: I've had to ask myself a while ago whether or not I really would get along well with Shiori in real life, and I think that I would. Basically, for reasons along the lines of what Archambeau said. From what we see of her, it's really easy to assume that every relationship Shiori has will end with her hurting her best friends, but it actually seems rather far-fetched to assume that all of her friendships would end that way.

Her screwed up friendship with Juri aside, from what we can tell, Shiori does seem to get along well with people, and supposedly has a pretty good personality. When she first meets Anthy and Utena, they quickly become friends. By the end of the episode, she's got three more friends. Half-way through episode 28? More friends. I wouldn't say that this implies that she has a great personality, but just that she doesn't have a bad personality, or a tendency to be sadistic to every person she comes in contact with. I think that the two of us would get along well, assuming that she doesn't develop feelings of jealousy or an inferiority complex towards me, and I can't imagine something like that happening.

Kozue: I like Kozue, but the two of us almost definitely would not get along well together. My first reaction of characters that I disliked were generally the ones I felt I would not get along with in real life, which is probably why Kozue was so far up the list.

Juri: I might be able to get along with Juri well when she was in middle school, (before the three years of angst kicked in,) but I would probably just end up hating her as much as Shiori did.

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#12 | Back to Top08-31-2007 01:15:20 PM

dollface
Postmistress Elf of Subtext
From: North Carolina
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 5086
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Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

It seems everyone has already mentioned Nanami, and I have to agree. I absolutely love Nanami as a character. She is, without a doubt, one of my favorites. I love the dynamics she creates, and although her comic-relief persona is not one I care for, as a person or as a character, when we get a look at the cold, hard truth about her... it just gets me every time. I honestly can't see how someone could feel no sympathy whatsoever towards her, but I can certainly see how she can grind your gears sometimes. Anyway, enough about her character. As a person, would I get along with Nanami? Probably not, as she rarely seems to have real 'friends'. Henchwenches, yes. Personal slave, yes. Then, there are characters like Miki or Juri, whom Nanami seems to interact with on somewhat of a friendly level. But, as Miki and Juri said themselves, they aren't friends. They're duelists.

On the other hand, what about Keiko? I do love her very much as well. I think that I could be friends with her, were I in a position similar to her own. Were I just an everyday person, Keiko couldn't have the time to focus on me, and though I understand that everyone has their shit, eventually her bottom-feeder way of life would catch up to us, and it would become too much of a blur to really remain close. I don't think I could have a lasting friendship with her.

Of course, Shiori. I once said that in reality, I wouldn't get along so well with her. That statement could have easily been taken to a literal level, which was not my intent. I couldn't be "OMGBFF!" with Shiori, because she has too many issues to work out. I can admit that Shiori is selfish, and as such, it would be very difficult to get close to her in an honest way. Even though she seems to have some friends in the school, none of them really ever see the darker side to Shiori, the honest side. It's one most people couldn't handle. I've thought for a while about if I myself could handle her, rather than being able to understand her. I think that, yes, I could. I've got a knack for finding myself in the middle of fuck ups, and I think that I could probably handle Shiori. I don't think that she would let me in, however.

Kozue, I would get along fabulously with, mainly because we'd be fucking.


ah, man does not exist; ah, within the darkness; ah, the sound of the waves

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#13 | Back to Top09-02-2007 11:24:38 AM

Catie
Miki Molester
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: 08-21-2007
Posts: 38
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Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

Stormcrow wrote:

Hmm...I think I'd cheerfully strangle most of the characters if I met them in real life. But then, I sometimes feel like strangling my friends in real life too.

Saionji and Kozue are two of my favorite characters (Yeesh, how's that for a pairing? She'd tear that poor bastard apart!)...I try to picture hanging out with one of them...it could be fun. Well, only the later Saionji, obviously. But the fact is, I get along with most people. I'm just not that demanding.

Woah, buddy!


But seriously, this is a very good question. Of course, my answer is going to be based upon what I've seen. After we've conquered the series, who knows.

While I don't really like Utena as a character, I have a feeling we'd be good enough pals in person. She seems like someone not inclined to adopt too many rules and boundaries to be constantly observed, though unlike, say, Anthy, she also seems to have a soul, and I trust she wouldn't be one of those people who just tag along and are fine with pretty much everything. She might be a nice fall-back peep to hang out with, anyway.

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#14 | Back to Top09-02-2007 12:56:23 PM

Arki
Dark Whisperer
From: Croatia
Registered: 10-28-2006
Posts: 1121

Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

I assume Miki is the only person I'd get along with, in terms of meaningful friendships. I wouldn't have to worry about his sister either, since we'd be fuck-buddies. school-devil

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#15 | Back to Top09-02-2007 01:57:00 PM

Clarice
Well hello, Clarice...
From: New Zealand
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 3102
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Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

My favourite characters in the series are Saionji, Nanami and Mikage/Nemuro -- all because they develop and change and are completely fucking insane. In real life? I would avoid Saionji like the plague, Nanami would be one of those bitchy spoiled brats I'd roll my eyes at and never speak to, and Mikage would probably mindfuck me into lifelong counselling. On the other hand, I would likely put Nemuro into longterm counselling with my stalking and quantum mechanics queries and general weirdassery. Heh.


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#16 | Back to Top09-02-2007 03:31:39 PM

Yasha
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From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
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Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

I tend to think I would get along pretty well with most of the characters I like, with the exception of Touga. I don't think we would get along because there are too many personality similarities in some spots, and too many diametric opposites in other spots. He and I are both selfish, sexual, fairly ruthless people, but that's tempered in me by compassion he doesn't have, and he would see it as a weakness. We're both ambitious, but I have limits and he doesn't have many of those. I think in the end it would be fun when we got along, but there would be some fairly explosive fighting and a lot of resentment under the surface.


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#17 | Back to Top09-02-2007 04:42:08 PM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
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Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

I think I could get along well with Kanae Ohtori and if I'm clever enough, get pictures of Akio either fucking Anthy or her mother so I can show her the truth and maybe she will DUMP THAT CHUMP

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#18 | Back to Top09-02-2007 04:44:54 PM

Archambeau
Muffy, the Forums Trophy Wife
Registered: 11-20-2006
Posts: 499

Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

Tamago wrote:

I think I could get along well with Kanae Ohtori and if I'm clever enough, get pictures of Akio either fucking Anthy or her mother so I can show her the truth and maybe she will DUMP THAT CHUMP

I doubt you could outwit Akio, champ.

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#19 | Back to Top09-02-2007 04:54:10 PM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
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Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

Archambeau wrote:

Tamago wrote:

I think I could get along well with Kanae Ohtori and if I'm clever enough, get pictures of Akio either fucking Anthy or her mother so I can show her the truth and maybe she will DUMP THAT CHUMP

I doubt you could outwit Akio, champ.

Sad but most likely true! emot-mad  If only I could use Anthy's curry on Akio and Mikage...

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#20 | Back to Top09-02-2007 05:00:01 PM

Razara
Marionette Mistress
From: Wuzzy Happy Akio Town (What?)
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 4694

Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

I might be able to get along with Kanae, though I'm not really sure. She would probably add to the list of my friends who have crazy parents.

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#21 | Back to Top09-02-2007 08:34:02 PM

Raven Nightshade
Someday Shiner
From: Louisiana
Registered: 12-17-2006
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Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

So, aside from Naji, I'm probably the only one who'd be friends with Anthy. Works for me.

I could be good friends with Utena too, but I feel like I'd be explaining a lot to her on a daily basis...much like Anthy does for most of the series.

I'd mostly likely hang out with Kozue too. Torturing Miki provides hours of entertainment. Besides, everyone needs a slutty friend, right?

Juri, I'm not sure about.  There are things that make me want to like her, and things that make me want to strangle her.

However, as much as I like Nanami as a character, I wouldn't touch her with a ten-foot pole as a person. I doubt I'd be too social with Saionji either, with him slapping around Anthy and stuff. I'm not sure about Touga, but I'd most likely avoid him just so I don't have to be around Nanami.


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It's so far and out of sight.
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#22 | Back to Top09-02-2007 08:50:12 PM

BioKraze
Faceless Master
From: Yuma, Arizona (USA)
Registered: 11-26-2006
Posts: 8280

Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

Hmmm...the character versus the person, eh? Interesting...

My two favourites from the Seitokai are Miki and Anthy. Miki's just the right kind of intelligence to be a good friend around, and Anthy's quiet and mysterious...you don't fuck with those kind of people! Black Rose favourite would be Wakaba, simply because she's...well, to quote Shrek, like an onion; she's got layers. Akio is definitely a favourite, even though he's a manipulative bastard, but then again, so am I, to a degree. And how can you like one Himemiya without having feelings toward the other, right?

Right?

Anyway...in real life, I'd be hanging around Miki and cracking dirty jokes with Kozue. Saionji would be given a wide berth, as I don't need a reminder of myself (that is, all sorts of fucked up in the head unless you got to know me better). Touga and Nanami? Rich snobs, they can go piss up a rope for all I care. Anthy? I'd be trying to befriend her, then go off and break a brick wall down with a toothpick because it's easier than trying to be a friend to Miss Himemiya. (I like Anthy as a character, not necessarily a person.) I'm not sure about Utena...I might hang with her simply because she's a troublemaker and likes to break constraints. Fuck the system, man!

The others would be background noise unless I bumped into them and had to say "I'm sorry." Most likely I'd say "GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY WAY, ASSHAT!" I never claimed to be perfect. In any case, even the bit characters are three dimensional, while the main characters are four dimensional: they have the perspective of time to develop themselves in, and would make for believable people.


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#23 | Back to Top09-02-2007 09:13:10 PM

Tenjou_sailorsaturn
Someday Shiner
From: Floating Castle
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 2417
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Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

BioKraze wrote:

Anthy? I'd be trying to befriend her, then go off and break a brick wall down with a toothpick because it's easier than trying to be a friend to Miss Himemiya.

emot-rofl Why, really, this is really quoted for the truth! emot-rofl


生命是奇蹟,但是為什麼生活是痛苦的?

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#24 | Back to Top09-02-2007 09:22:26 PM

NajiMinkin
Hacker Ringleader
From: The Incredible Edible Egg
Registered: 06-23-2007
Posts: 2537

Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

BioKraze wrote:

Anthy? I'd be trying to befriend her, then go off and break a brick wall down with a toothpick because it's easier than trying to be a friend to Miss Himemiya.

The challenge is part of the appeal for me. I, much like little Utena, enjoy thinking of myself as a do-gooder.


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#25 | Back to Top09-02-2007 10:37:43 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: "The Character" vs. "The Person"

Oddly, this isn't the kind of question I tend to think very much about.  I tend to react to the SKU cast as people first and characters second, if at all, so my favorites tend to be the people I think I'd get along with -- Utena, Wakaba, Tatsuya.  I can appreciate Nanami and Shiori and the rest as characters, and on that level I'm able to sympathize with them and even root for them, but all the exposition and analysis in the world won't change my gut-level reaction to them, which is that I want to tie them up and launch them into the sun.

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