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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top08-30-2007 05:40:30 PM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
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The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

Anybody who has read a lot of threads in IRG know that most (I said most not all) of the people here seem to despise this version of Akio and not in a good way either.

Series Akio (Akio) is a character that people either loved or loved to hate even as they etc-wankdudeetc-wankgirl to him but movie-Akio (M-Akio) more often than not tends to illicit responses like "WTF did they turn a cool villian like Akio into some kind of pathic effeminate douchebag that is M-Akio?" or something along those lines.

This thread is intended to allow people to explain why they feel the way they do about M-Akio and maybe even find out if he is just misunderstood like Shiori, Kozue and Saionji was by a large number of the SKU fandom or does he deserve the venom that many fans of the series have poured over him (M-Akio) especially in this forum?

So lets all talk/explain/theorise about M-Akio (or an even better nickname, Makio)!


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#2 | Back to Top08-30-2007 06:04:13 PM

Alithea
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From: Westminster, CO
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Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

Without getting into it too deeply I think it's the misunderstanding that Movie-Akio is supposed to be the main bad guy of the movie. I think the same thing happens with Movie-Shiori and Series-Shiori. Being used to one version of the character we want the movie version to be everything that the series version is.

When you get right down to it the characters from the movie have different personalites all together from the series. And Akio inparticular is not a character in the movie that is moving events forward. He's Anthy's ghost, just as Movie Touga is Utena's (and to anextent Shiori's and Juri's ghost). The part from the past that keeps one from moving forward and going into the real world.

Poeple who love series Akio or even love to hate him feel the way they do becuase he is the master manipulator. He is the driving force that makes events happen. Going into  a movie and seeing what some veiw as the perfect villian reduced to a man into drugging his sister to sleep with her just becomes an upsetting let down.

I think really you have to look at the movie and series as seperate things. They are different worlds and while they have simalair themes the message as conveyed by the characters of the story is much different.

Even given this knowledge I still don't like Movie Akio. I think he's creepy and a coward. I love to hate series Akio because he is evil but he carries himself in such away that it really is sexy. He embraces his badness for all it is without appoligies and without fear of repercussions.


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#3 | Back to Top08-30-2007 06:12:59 PM

Kashira
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From: UK
Registered: 08-30-2007
Posts: 136

Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

(Just a quick comment, I'll post more once other people do and I can steal thier ideas...I mean once I've organised my thoughts)

Oh um ...spoilers?

Makio (good name) is a confusing character, and from a plot perspective seems to be nothing more than a vehicle for the faux-Dios. When he arrives in prince form he basically states out lound in dialogue his symbolic and narrative purpose and intent from the show: "Stay here and be a living corpse Anthy because I said so."
His desperate search for the key to his rusting car contrast family explicitly with Anthy's desperation to get moving before her Utena mobile rusts. Akio stopped being a character when they made the movie, he became a plot device. He merely exists to show that his car is rusted, and he can't move on (much like his series counterpart) he is incapable of escaping the closed world ...ever and he dies in despair... if he ever existed (still not sure about that) he's been there too long and he can't move on ... grow up? He exchanged the flashy red Akio mobile for a little green block (analogous to his character shift?).

Once I figure out exactly what they are lacking in Ohtori Academy I might have a better idea of why he’s such a wet fish. emot-tongue

^ Eidt: I type too slow

Last edited by Kashira (08-30-2007 06:15:16 PM)


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#4 | Back to Top08-30-2007 06:47:52 PM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 588

Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

1. The inconsistencies in M-Akio's character are nothing compared to Movie Shiori's. I could rant on for many paragraphs about how little sense her character makes even within the movie.

2. Ms. Saito fixed most of M-Akio's  problems in the movie manga and does a good job of depicting him as a ghost who is both powerless and terrifying.

3. All three of those Akios are ultimately parasitic on Anthy anyway to a greater or lesser extent.

4. Only in the first manga is he a creditable autonomous devil.

5. Yes, you have to take the movie as it's own world but then, unfortunately, Nanami makes zero sense when you do that.

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#5 | Back to Top08-30-2007 06:54:23 PM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

Kashira and Alithea, you both made good points that we should look at Makio from the prospective of what his role is in this movie rather than just compare Makio to Akio side by side and find Makio wanting like most of us (me included) have done.

(God I wish I could wield words together much better)

I think the biggest problem with the movie is that they condenced it way too much as well as totally reinventing so completely and as a result, the movie ended up with way too many WTF moments, the only reason I liked the movie as much as I did was because I saw it before I saw the series, if I had watched the series first thean the movie, I would have dismissed it as a very pretty soundtrack with many freaky scenes.

I do remember that sometime ago in this forum, that Makio might represent Akio as he might have been soon after Anthy sealed Dios away but I cannot remember where it was posted anymore.


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#6 | Back to Top08-30-2007 07:00:00 PM

Razara
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From: Wuzzy Happy Akio Town (What?)
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 4693

Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

Despite what I told myself, I started analyzing the movie again a few weeks ago, and what of the subjects that I ended thinking about was Movie-Akio.

Really, in the same way that things Movie-Shiori does tend to be held against the real Shiori, the same goes for Movie-Akio and Series-Akio. My first or second time through the moving, I remember listening to A-Ko talk about how he was so much like a prince, and still believing that that wasn't true. The scene where we find out that he rapes Anthy instantly enforces that theory. But in reality, he probably was a lot like a prince.

Like all the characters in the movie, we don't really have time to learn much about them, so we have to take what we can get. One of the things I found most interesting was his interaction with Kanae. He was giving her rides in his car, waltzing with her, and generally giving her a lot of attention. When he died, Kanae was sobbing hysterically over his death, whereas if it were Series-Akio who had died, she probably wouldn't have been quite as upset. (In my opinion.) This makes it seem as though Movie-Akio was a really nice guy who treated his fiance well, and really as a textbook example of a prince.

Except for the raping his sister part, but that's another story.

As for whether I like or dislike him, I've rethought my stance on a bunch of characters recently, and he, like more than half the cast, falls into the, "Just there," category for me. I simply don't care. Yes, he gives the real Akio a bad name, but I don't hold giving Shiori a bad name against Movie-Shiori, so whatever.

Edit: Typos... I know they're there, but I don't really have time to fix them.

Double Edit: Fine. Homework can wait. I fixed them, but only because I called Kanae a "him."

Last edited by Razara (08-30-2007 07:05:06 PM)

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#7 | Back to Top08-30-2007 10:01:07 PM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 588

Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

Razara wrote:

This makes it seem as though Movie-Akio was a really nice guy who treated his fiance well, and really as a textbook example of a prince.

Except for the raping his sister part, but that's another story.

I read an article by a victim of incest who protested the tendency of the public to paint her father as a total monster. He indeed molested her and hurt her badly psychologically but he was also a great guy in many other ways and people needed to see that also and not think in black-and-white terms.

Series Akio makes a great archetype (there is something delicious about a man so voracious that even knotholes in trees are not safe from him), but M-Akio is more human.

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#8 | Back to Top08-30-2007 10:15:18 PM

NajiMinkin
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From: The Incredible Edible Egg
Registered: 06-23-2007
Posts: 2537

Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

I started writing a response to something Kashira said and it's turning into a long, winding, full movie analysis that revolves around my Makio theories.
Is it still appropriate to post it here?


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#9 | Back to Top08-30-2007 10:50:59 PM

Yasha
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From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
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Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

Of course! Post away. emot-biggrin


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#10 | Back to Top08-30-2007 10:59:12 PM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

NajiMinkin wrote:

I started writing a response to something Kashira said and it's turning into a long, winding, full movie analysis that revolves around my Makio theories.
Is it still appropriate to post it here?

Its more than just appropriate Ms Minkin, it's one of the key reasons why I started this thread in the first place. school-eng101poptart


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#11 | Back to Top08-31-2007 12:30:08 AM

NajiMinkin
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Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

Huzzah! emot-biggrin

A work in progress! I'll be back in the morning. Er, mid afternoon. Same thing for me, though.

Kashira wrote:

Makio exchanged the flashy red Akio mobile for a little green block (analogous to his character shift?).

I think the scene where he lets Kanae out of his Pimpmobile, dances with her on a red carpet surrounded by people, and then enters the ugly green taxi driven by a man without a face is about how his relationship with Anthy was sketchy and something he didn't want anyone to know about. His convertible, with the open roof and gorgeous appearance, represented the life he lived in the public's eyes. Makio was a seemingly charming young man who wore tight pants, loved his fiancé, and could do gymnastics, but that was only when he knew that the Shadow Girls (i.e. news anchors/tabloids) were watching him.

After he's finishing waltzing Kanae around the premises, Makio enters a taxi to meet up with Manthy (that sounds a little like a sweet transvestite, but movie!Anthy and series!Anthy are so different). From the outside, while he is still aware that the Shadow Girls are filming, their conversation and actions seem perfectly normal for a brother and sister. However, given that he left Kanae with his car and red carpet, I think Akio might have hidden Anthy from her, which might account for why Kanae is more devastated by his death.

Now, when a man who owns a snazzy ass ride like the Pimpmobile* gets into a shitty little taxi to go see an underage girl, you can bet there's something smelly afoot. Whereas his sexy convertible is pretty easy to find, a taxi is virtually untracable. No one would know that Makio had visited little Manthy. At least, no one but the Shadow Girls, but like I said, they were acting perfectly normal for a brother and sister, sketchy taxi aside, so he had nothing to worry about. Even Manthy (it's too weird! emot-gonk she's Anthy again!) wouldn't be the wiser.

Inside of his art studio, the light is darker, and the filming a little more crude. This shows that the scene itself will be darker and possibly that Akio isn't aware he's being filmed anymore. When the record that had been previously playing Akio's "perfect life" soundtrack starts skipping, it means that his relationship with Anthy is the imperfection or scratch on what had seemed a beautiful being.

Why I think Makio might no longer be aware of his being filmed, the cinemetography shows (or at least implies) that Anthy sees Makio slipping a mickey into her drink, which he is unaware of later. He no longer addresses the camera and the Shadow Girls no longer address him. It's just Utena watching now. In the movie manga, they get straight to business and make it clear that Anthy is revealing her memories to Utena. I believe the scene inside the studio is completely in Anthy's memory.

A basic overview of the Anthy and Makio relationship as I see it is that they are both the skeletons in each other's closets. Or rather, in Anthy's case, the skeleton in her rose garden. I'll write a bit on that once I've thought it over more, though.

Back to the video, throughout the whole thing (which I think is all we see of living Makio) his bangs are covering the spot where his bindi would be. The bindi, possibly representing his third eye or ability to see through the illusions of Ohtori, is also a symbol of his supernatural abilities. The lack of that symbol might mean he's just an ordinary man at this point. He doesn't become the magical prince he is later until he is the physical manifestation of Anthy's ideal Makio. Anthy, on the other hand, does have her bindi. So I think we're allowed to believe that she is not mortal, but a witch (I know I'm kind of pointing out the obvious here, but it helps my next conclusion) like we were lead to believe in the series' Tale of the Rose.

Also in the Tale of the Rose, it is said that a prince can't make his sister a princess. In fairy tales, when a prince and a princess come together, it usually symbolizes sex. So when Makio fucks Anthy (I say "fuck" because it's not rape, but it's more corrupt than regular sex) and she tells him that he is her prince, they've just broken that sacred rule. They're executed because of it.

Earlier in the movie, Makio tells Touga the story of the Prince of the Rose or something like that turning out to be the Lord of the Flies (probably some symbolism there, but I've never read the book, only the best essay ever). It's basically the story of Anthy and Dios we learn in that Tale of the Rose episode. I also see it as being the story of movie!Anthy and Makio, only told by dead/Anthy's Makio, so heavily biased and idealized by her.

Er, I'm not sure if I've properly introduced this theory yet, but this all leads me to believe that there never was a movie Dios and that it's all just a fairy tell used to cover up the tragedy of Makio's death. Or at least, there was no Dios in the flesh. Dios was the prince she saw in Makio (note how his hair is half-way between Akio and Dios'), which was a paradox because a man can't be his sister's prince (I think the fact that there never was a real prince was stated several times in the movie). So really Dios himself was a figment of her imagination that she combined with Makio after his death. In the video, everyone's wearing at least semi-realistic clothes, but after he dies, Makio is wearing the clothes we see on that fairy tale Rose Prince. There's not even any spandex or ruffles in it! It seems very out of character, if you ask me.

Oh, and as far as the Ohtori campus itself is concerned, I mostly trust the movie manga's explanation for how it came to be. Anthy (who might be a witch because only gross girls like witches want to fuck their brothers) feels responsible for Makio's death, creates the campus out of greif, yadda yadda. Ohtori means phoenix, a mystical bird who rises from its own ashes, so this is the rebirth of one's happy life with their prince/princess out of the ashes of memory (there's probably some meaning in only Akio having the last name Ohtori, but I can't explain it properly).

I believe Ohtori is filled with ghosts/fallen princes and princesses and the people they haunt. All of these people come to Anthy's mystical land as kindred spirits. As mentioned by Alithea, there is Juri and Shiori, Utena and Touga, but also Miki and Kozue, Tatsuya and Wakaba, and Saionji and somebody. How these people are similar to Anthy to Makio, we see in the series, if not the movie as well.

Shiori cruelly (in Juri's eyes, at least) rejects Juri's feelings for her, which may or may not have driven one or the other to do something drastic in that boat later. I say this because as Shiori tells Touga about the locket, you see little Juri looking out at the water. Anyway, the heavily simplified Shiori we see in the movie is one of the few people who interacts with Touga, a definite ghost, when the very real Miki cannot. She also seems to have supernatural powers on campus, what with stealing the Shadow Girls' video tape, and only communicates with the other people on campus after the ground of Ohtori, burying Anthy's past, is broken and the real Makio revealed. So I think Shiori is Juri's ghost/fallen princess who carries her sword, but not in her heart as Anthy does for "Dios" and Utena.

Touga and Utena is old hat, so fuck that.

Movie!Kozue might have molested Miki, based on the scene in the bathtub, making their story much akin to Anthy and Makio's, or it could also be the ol' "my sister and I used to play piano, but then I got sick so she's a slut now" story. Either way, she's his fallen princess (their part is so small, that's all I can really get out of their movie back-story. emot-frown Sorry, Mister Vagina).

When it comes to Saionji, I get a bit confused. I know by the end that Wakaba is Saionji's true princess (I'll explain fully in a minute), but I'm not sure who he came in with. Maybe he had another Touga-esque person he envied and diddled with.

Tatsuya, who we see briefly talking to Wakaba (but might not actually see, if you know what I mean), could be the fallen prince she came in with. Her old onion prince turned smooth-talking asshole who just randomly moves away... In the series, after maybe a decade, Wakaba was still hurting. It might have been enough to bring them to Ohtori. And did you notice that when Wakaba was hitting on movie!Utena, she had Tatsuya's same haircut? I'm sorry if that last sentence smells a little funny because I just pulled it out of my ass.

But yes, Ohtori is filled with people in similar situations to Anthy and Makio/Dios. Each can only communicate with their ghost or hauntee (except for Anthy) and is otherwise stuck with only the dead or the living. Some of the more tragic and princely of the students are chosen by the roses of Ohtori to duel for the Sword of Dios (a romanticized version of the knife Makio embedded into Anthy's heart). She dresses them in prince's garb (much like she dressed her idea of Makio as Dios) and offers to be their replacement princess for a night.

But this all get shattered after Utena shows up. She seems just like any of the other duelists, but she's the only one who brings the world revolution. I think in the end, it's because she was the only one who had a true prince with her at Ohtori.

Movie!Touga loved her, treated her selflessly, broke up with her most likely for reasons concerning his "father," and died saving a young girl**. As she said in the elevator, "he really was her prince." Keyword, was.

Because Utena had a real prince to model herself after instead of a fallen prince to cling on to, she was the purest of the bunch; the only one with a white rose. The other duelists had red roses, stained by blood, anger, or passion. As the most pure, only she could embody Anthy's pure image of Dios, remove Makio's sword from her heart, and fill the empty void with love.

I'm going to wrap this up with some of my car schpeil and then add to it later. It's two in the morning and my logic is all fugged up.

There's a little inconsistency in something I said earlier. I said that the living and the dead couldn't communicate unless they were hooked together, but Miki sees Shiori and Juri together. However, that was in the room full of cars where you also see Dios and Miki's rubber ducky/Kozue.

The black cars are physical embodiments of the student's ghosts and I think may double as illusion projectors, much like Akio's planetarium. So in that room, the fallen ones could be seen by all. At the time, Utena had not gotten closure with Touga and truly become Anthy's prince, so I think a car of Dios may have been in there as well.

Post-Touga Utena was a real prince. Once she decided that she didn't want to just be Makio back from the dead and instead wanted to help Anthy escape from this world where people were held back by the ones they loved the most, she got attacked by the Magical Carwash of ZUM and got to be a perty car.

Wakaba, too, ended up being a beautiful car, which I think means she ended up become a true princess (as Tatsuya too might be considered a true prince) to Saionji.

Ack! Can't think anymore. G'night, guys. Excuse my typos for now! etc-love

*About Akio's car, has anyone figured out exactly what model it is? I had a hunch it was a 1960 250 GT Ferrari California Spyder, but there are a couple details that don't quite fit. I'd just like to know because I'm a fact-monger. emot-redface

**I honestly don't see where the Be Papas get off making "true prince" movie!Touga the same character as Series!Touga. emot-mad He's as bad as Makio! emot-gonk I miss my sex addicted asshole!

Edit: Car of Dios was the castle. Sorry!

Last edited by NajiMinkin (08-31-2007 02:26:32 AM)


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#12 | Back to Top08-31-2007 12:59:05 AM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
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Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

NajiMinkin wrote:

AN ESSAY ABOUT THE UTENA MOVIE THAT MADE ME GO emot-aaaemot-aaaemot-aaaemot-aaaemot-aaaemot-aaa

If essays were orgasms, I would be needing a long hot shower right about now. etc-loveetc-lovepoptartetc-loveetc-love

I know Gio and Yasha would love to add this to their essay list and I would look forward to reading an essay you mentioned doing around the parallels between SKU and Labyrinth, especially with how similar Akio Ohtori is to the Goblin King Jareth.


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#13 | Back to Top08-31-2007 01:33:17 AM

rhyaniwyn
Myth is my Bitch
From: Tallahassee, FL
Registered: 11-09-2006
Posts: 684
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Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

I'm feeling a bit too tipsy right now for any analysis, but I wanted to post a link to this thread Movie Akio vs. Series Akio, which has a similar topic and might offer some relevant commentary:

http://forums.ohtori.nu/viewtopic.php?id=552

Last edited by rhyaniwyn (08-31-2007 01:33:38 AM)


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#14 | Back to Top08-31-2007 01:48:53 AM

Kashira
Rose Smilee
From: UK
Registered: 08-30-2007
Posts: 136

Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

NajiMinkin wrote:

What Tamago said

Well that's what I get for trying to analyse after only one viewing.

One quick note, I think that when Makio referenced the Lord of the Flies he was probably talking about Beelzebub rather than the book. Similar to how he compared himself to Lucifer in the series.

Last edited by Kashira (08-31-2007 01:51:09 AM)


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#15 | Back to Top08-31-2007 01:54:17 AM

NajiMinkin
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From: The Incredible Edible Egg
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Posts: 2537

Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

Kashira wrote:

NajiMinkin wrote:

What Tamago said

Well that's what I get for trying to analyse after only one viewing.

One quick note, I think that when Makio referenced the Lord of the Flies he was probably talking about Beelzebub rather than the book. Similar to how he compared himself to Lucifer in the series.

Mmm, that makes much more sense. Danke!


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#16 | Back to Top08-31-2007 12:13:03 PM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 588

Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

Thanks for joining the two threads together. I wonder if it's practical for Giovanna and Yasha to literally meld them?

One really tiny detail that might be important. Makio and his manga counterpart stab Anthy with a Painter's Spatula. The movie makes it look like he tore her heart out, but in the manga a superficial scar.

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#17 | Back to Top08-31-2007 05:56:01 PM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
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Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

I cannot believe I totally forgot about that thread rhyaniwyn posted, I remembered talking about Akio vs Makio but I thought it was an offtopic subject on a different thread...HOW EMBARRASSMENT!


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#18 | Back to Top09-01-2007 01:15:01 AM

Yasha
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From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
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Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

brian wrote:

Thanks for joining the two threads together. I wonder if it's practical for Giovanna and Yasha to literally meld them?

Best just to go with the current one and quote anything that's relevant out of the old one. I'd have to break into accounts to meld the two together, and I'm not willing to do that. We can see if there's a feature for it when we're not in such an uproar, though.


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#19 | Back to Top09-02-2007 12:07:24 AM

satyreyes
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Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

Neat essay, Naji!  Tonight is evidently "Satyreyes Praises NajiMinkin Night."  I'm not sure all the facts are in about whether M-Ohtori is a graveyard for false princes and the princesses they took down, but it fits; if M-Ohtori is nothing else, it's an illusory castle in the sky.

As far as Makio goes, would you summarize that the reason we all think Makio is lame is that Makio is lame?  He's nothing but a handicap for Anthy and the owner of a rusty Ferrari.

I have to agree that Akio is not Makio, Anthy is not Manthy, etc etc.  But reading your essay, I kept thinking "But if they're different characters, why do they have the same names?"  How is the movie like the series?  There are hints... Akio tethers Anthy to Ohtori in both, though for subtly different reasons... and there's the story of the boat that Juri tells in the Utena series finale.  But is there a more fundamental connection?  If Ikuhara had changed the names and character designs and called the movie "Quetzalcoatl High School: A Story Totally Unrelated To That Other One, I Promise," what would have been lost?

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#20 | Back to Top09-05-2007 11:51:06 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8731
Website

Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

UHOH.

Yes, I will contribute. I'll also keep the Makio (lol I get it, mock-e-o) insulting a minimum.

While panning together a rather obnoxious shot of movie Anthy scrubbing the pool bottom, I had a thought that movie Anthy must be a rather self-centered bitch. Yes, Shiori is the villain, but there's nothing suggesting Shiori controls Anthy. With no Akio lording over her, Anthy seems to act alone, which makes her being the Rose Bride pretty self-important, since she's decided she's going to be the center of attention and (plainly sexual) desire to the student council of this school. Then I thought...how Akio-like of her.

Movie Anthy apparently of her own accord placed herself on a pedestal, to be desired by the student council (sexually, did I mention that?) and treated like a queen (lol Touga dries her off instead of Utena whoops) within the confines of a coffin she seems to know she's stuck in. She  enjoys antagonizing Utena when she's alone with her, and overall just doesn't come across as a particularly unhappy person. Sounds a lot like Akio to me.

But does movie Akio remind us at all of Anthy? While movie Anthy was, yes, drugged on the floor for most of the scene, what does she do when she wakes up? She says something that she knows will hurt him, but doesn't sound like it's meant that way. (Saionji...sempai.) Could it be, perhaps, that movie Anthy lords over Makio in her own subtle way just as Akio lorded over Anthy in the series? And doesn't Makio's guilt in the face of not actually stopping what's in his control to stop somewhat reminiscent of Anthy later in the series when she appears a little less enthusiastic about sleeping with her brother? They do both have suicide/attempts in common as well.

I'm not trying to write a Theory of Everything around that at all, I know there are holes aplenty, but it seemed an interesting enough thought that I should share it. emot-keke

NajiMinkin wrote:

*About Akio's car, has anyone figured out exactly what model it is? I had a hunch it was a 1960 250 GT Ferrari California Spyder, but there are a couple details that don't quite fit. I'd just like to know because I'm a fact-monger. emot-redface

In the series, Akio's car is a 1957 Corvette Roadster. That's straight from the official material. I don't know if it's a different car in the movie, though. Also your essay is awesome. etc-love

Tamago wrote:

I would look forward to reading an essay you mentioned doing around the parallels between SKU and Labyrinth, especially with how similar Akio Ohtori is to the Goblin King Jareth.

...

:twitch:

satyreyes wrote:

"Quetzalcoatl High School: A Story Totally Unrelated To That Other One, I Promise"

Did the Aztec high priests usually remove the heart with a palette knife? emot-confused


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
Chiefest of Calamities

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#21 | Back to Top09-06-2007 12:17:01 AM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

Giovanna wrote:

satyreyes wrote:

"Quetzalcoatl High School: A Story Totally Unrelated To That Other One, I Promise"

Did the Aztec high priests usually remove the heart with a palette knife? emot-confused

Not as far as I know; it was just the funniest mythical bird I could think of.  Though it wouldn't surprise me.  Aztecs were kah-razy.

On an off-topic note, I'm currently playing Fatal Frame 2, a survival-horror video game wherein [ there's a village lost in the folds of time where a ritual involving identical twins killing each other is played out again and again.  I don't know the details yet, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if a palette knife was involved.  Disturbing. ]

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#22 | Back to Top09-06-2007 12:56:25 AM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
Website

Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

Thanks partly to what Gio posted in this threat earlier, a weird idea came to me;

Series Akio was the result of Anthy sealing up only certain aspects of Dios, but maybe in the movie version, Anthy sealed up even more of what made Dios a prince until a mere parady Makio was left and the side effect of sealling so much of Dios inside herself inanvertantly made her more Akio-like.


http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o50/spatulasama/DooDah.jpg

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#23 | Back to Top09-06-2007 11:56:53 AM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 588

Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

Giovanna wrote:

Movie Anthy apparently of her own accord placed herself on a pedestal, to be desired by the student council (sexually, did I mention that?) and treated like a queen (lol Touga dries her off instead of Utena whoops) within the confines of a coffin she seems to know she's stuck in. She  enjoys antagonizing Utena when she's alone with her, and overall just doesn't come across as a particularly unhappy person. Sounds a lot like Akio to me.

But does movie Akio remind us at all of Anthy? While movie Anthy was, yes, drugged on the floor for most of the scene, what does she do when she wakes up? She says something that she knows will hurt him, but doesn't sound like it's meant that way. (Saionji...sempai.) Could it be, perhaps, that movie Anthy lords over Makio in her own subtle way just as Akio lorded over Anthy in the series? And doesn't Makio's guilt in the face of not actually stopping what's in his control to stop somewhat reminiscent of Anthy later in the series when she appears a little less enthusiastic about sleeping with her brother? They do both have suicide/attempts in common as well.

Ahem, the movie manga explains Anthy better. But anyway: Anthy may not have been drugged at all. She was simply doing what she thought he wanted. She was probably completely innocent and naive about psychology and perhaps even Right and Wrong. The essence of cruelly innocent. He may have brainwashed her into thinking that's what she should do, but by actually doing it, she made him worse and destroyed him. Her story is of blind idealism leading to tragedy and his of using his adoring sister to turn himself into something he could not stand to look at. Although I dislike much of the movie that scene has a lot of psychological truth with a lot a applications to many situations. That scene, along with a couple of others make it worthwhile.

Anthy had no clue what she was doing to Makio by worshipping him so. Her obediance and submissiveness was psychologically devasting to both of them. She may have been selfish and thoughtless but also completely innocent.

In the so-called Real World there are lots of people living in Hells jointly made for them by their own selves and by departed loved ones, and who are unwilling to expel the ghosts that imprison them.

Utena herself is so obviously deluded that Anthy can see her own flaws in Utena's. They are soul-mirrors to each other. It's not a pretty sight. They had both twisted themselves out of shape trying to hold on to inappropriate ideals. (I really miss that series Utena who would never make a pass at Wakaba or hurl Anthy onto the bed, but the more blatantly flawed characters do move the story along faster.)

Anthy may also have been trying to be a Camus-style Sisyphus trying to find inner contentment from pushing those rocks.

Last edited by brian (09-06-2007 03:03:11 PM)

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#24 | Back to Top09-08-2007 05:25:49 PM

Aine Silveria
Pumpkin Bride
From: Allegan, MI
Registered: 11-03-2006
Posts: 2098

Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

brian wrote:

Ahem, the movie manga explains Anthy better.

Indeed. The movie manga makes a lot about the movie make more sense. Something about the lack of people turning into cars?? It's a theory of mine that that when you combine a manga with it's series, the resultant mess is something that makes so much more sense. Case in point: Read and watch FLCL. I think I'm the only person on the planet that understands the series by combining things from each.

brian wrote:

Anthy may not have been drugged at all. She was simply doing what she thought he wanted. She was probably completely innocent and naive about psychology and perhaps even Right and Wrong. The essence of cruelly innocent. He may have brainwashed her into thinking that's what she should do, but by actually doing it, she made him worse and destroyed him. Her story is of blind idealism leading to tragedy and his of using his adoring sister to turn himself into something he could not stand to look at.[...]Anthy had no clue what she was doing to Makio by worshipping him so. Her obediance and submissiveness was psychologically devasting to both of them. She may have been selfish and thoughtless but also completely innocent.

Anthy is indeed completely innocent to the pain and suffering she's causing her brother by doing what she does. Even as he freaks out, she makes it worse by telling him exactly what he doesn't want to hear: that his sister likes and doesn't mind what he does to her. He thinks that, obviously, he's insane because no one could ever love their sister like that, and the fact that Anthy has no problem with his problem is probably what really screws with his head. I'm not good at psychology, but his response makes a lot of sense to me. There's the obvious factorial of him getting caught doing something incredibly naughty, by his supposed vicim, and the second fact that the victim really isn't? I think I'd flip and fall out a window too.

brian wrote:

In the so-called Real World there are lots of people living in Hells jointly made for them by their own selves and by departed loved ones, and who are unwilling to expel the ghosts that imprison them.

Utena herself is so obviously deluded that Anthy can see her own flaws in Utena's. They are soul-mirrors to each other. It's not a pretty sight. They had both twisted themselves out of shape trying to hold on to inappropriate ideals.

I agree with most of this, but the last part. I don't think that what they were trying to hold onto was inappropriate, rather, the way they were going about how they held onto their ideals. I don't think anything's wrong with hoping for a prince, or princess, in your life, but the way they took the idea and twisted it out of shape is what's wrong. I could just be an utter romantic, thinking crazy things, though.



And yes. Glory in my movie!Akio support icon. emot-biggrin What? I had to do it.


http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m526/aines_pixels/mikageirgsig02-2012.png

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#25 | Back to Top09-08-2007 06:41:39 PM

Kashira
Rose Smilee
From: UK
Registered: 08-30-2007
Posts: 136

Re: The long overdue thread about Movie-Akio (Makio)

brian wrote:

Anthy may also have been trying to be a Camus-style Sisyphus trying to find inner contentment from pushing those rocks.

Should I have understood that just from watching, or is there some sort of textbook to go with the course? emot-tongue

Lady Chani wrote:

I think I'd flip and fall out a window too.

And bury yourself in a garden too?


Akio: See, we big brothers are like the moon. We're spherical, and control the tides, and make aliens turn into giant apes on occasion. Also, we're sexy. -Utena Thumbnail Theater

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