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HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top08-21-2007 04:00:41 AM

Rosie Fan
New Student
Registered: 08-21-2007
Posts: 2

New member says Hi! and a question about car motif

Hello!  I just discovered your wonderful little forum and am a great fan of Revolutionary Girl Utena!  etc-love

I have been lurking around a bit and really enjoyed reading your insightful and thoughtful discussions of this wonderful series.  However, there's one thing i'm not really clear about and if a thread has been made about this topic already, please mods delete this post. :sorry if this has already been discussed:

Is Akio's car a metaphor for sex?  In other words, is the car ride itself always a visual representation of the physical act of sex between certain characters in the car, or is it just a prelude to a dual and representative of Akio's will being carried out? 

For example, it is fairly clear in episodes 28 that Ruka and Shiori are having sex, but in 29 Ruka and Juri are about as far away from each other as possible and my initial impression was that they did not.  It is a bit confusing to me because although this is probably negligable (whether or not they did it), Akio and his car rides have almost always been related to the act of seduction in some implied form or another.  I was just wondering if anyone could clarify this. 

I'm kinda embarressed; my first post and already i'm getting into dirty stuff.  emot-frown

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#2 | Back to Top08-21-2007 04:42:47 AM

Maarika
Someday Shiner
From: Estonia
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 2510
Website

Re: New member says Hi! and a question about car motif

Everything associated with Akio has something to do with sex. school-eng101

In all seriousness though, I've wondered about the car thing myself. I don't think the car is always (although it often seems to be) associted with sex. Not everyone who goes for a ride ends up having sex with someone (Juri, for example). I think it has a lot more to do with losing innocence, as everyone who's riding is being shown the End of the World. Meaning that they are forced to leave behinf a part of themselves to change something about their lives. Another thing the car might symbolise is power (sex=power, which is why Akio's driving the car all the time emot-biggrin ). I'm particularly thinking about the scene where Miki fantasises about driving the car with Anthy next to her. Whoever drives the car is obviously in control and Miki realises that he wants a position like that. It goes deeper than having dominance over Anthy because in that particular episode Miki tries to break free from the control that adults have over him. But according to Kozue, the only way to take control was to lose that innocence to become like the adults. Now's a good time to mention that it's been a while since I last watched Miki's second duel episode which means I might be misinterpreting everyting. emot-tongue

Either way, I'm interested to see other views on this. I think the car motif was mentioned sometime somewhere, but very briefly.

Rosie Fan wrote:

I'm kinda embarressed; my first post and already i'm getting into dirty stuff.  emot-frown

You shouldn't be! This means you fit here very nicely. emot-biggrin Welcome to IRG!


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#3 | Back to Top08-21-2007 07:31:49 AM

Stormcrow
Magical Flying Moron
From: Los Angeles
Registered: 04-24-2007
Posts: 5971
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Re: New member says Hi! and a question about car motif

There are seductions and then there are seductions. So yes, I'd say that whoever rides in Akio's car is being seduced, even Ruka in a way. They're just being seduced to different things. To me it kind of plays on the stories about getting into cars with strange people as well.

And it forces them to stare at Akio's butt when he jumps over the hood.


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#4 | Back to Top08-21-2007 10:58:08 AM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 588

Re: New member says Hi! and a question about car motif

Ikuhara said something about cars symbolizing adult power and glamor. How that fits in to the Utena and Kozue and Shiori cars of the movie I don't know. Perhaps Kozue became a static adult and Shiori a self-destructive adult.

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#5 | Back to Top08-21-2007 11:13:10 AM

Archambeau
Muffy, the Forums Trophy Wife
Registered: 11-20-2006
Posts: 499

Re: New member says Hi! and a question about car motif

I will agree that it has an element of seduction, but, aside from Ruka and Shiori's ride, none of the carnal sort.  By showing the duelists the End of the World, he's seducing them back into the duel game and tempting them with what I assume to be visions of the attainability of their personal ideal.

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#6 | Back to Top08-21-2007 11:09:26 PM

Rosie Fan
New Student
Registered: 08-21-2007
Posts: 2

Re: New member says Hi! and a question about car motif

Another thing the car might symbolise is power

The car (Akio's) is also a bit of a masculine symbol, at least that's how it looks to me.  I think you're right, it really is a vehicle for change, in a reckless sort of way, especially with Akio and his no hand driving trick. 

Whoever drives the car is obviously in control and Miki realises that he wants a position like that. It goes deeper than having dominance over Anthy because in that particular episode Miki tries to break free from the control that adults have over him. But according to Kozue, the only way to take control was to lose that innocence to become like the adults.

Loosing innocence in order to attain power or grow up is an interesting idea and makes the whole car thing a lot clearer to me.  Sex could just be one small aspect of that.  I've only seen the series once in it's entierty and have only recently started to watch it over again.  At first I thought it was mostly about feministic values, but now I see it has broader ideas like the painful emotional changes teenagers go through as they try to find what it is they want as adults. 

Now's a good time to mention that it's been a while since I last watched Miki's second duel episode which means I might be misinterpreting everyting.

It's ok I haven't seen most of the show in a while either.  Thanks for commenting, it really cleared up a lot for me.  The car was starting to bother me because I didn't really understand why it was being shown in that way.

So yes, I'd say that whoever rides in Akio's car is being seduced, even Ruka in a way. They're just being seduced to different things. To me it kind of plays on the stories about getting into cars with strange people as well.

Seduction is Akio's favorite past time. ;)

Ikuhara said something about cars symbolizing adult power and glamor. How that fits in to the Utena and Kozue and Shiori cars of the movie I don't know. Perhaps Kozue became a static adult and Shiori a self-destructive adult.

I've only seen the movie once but those cars really confused me.  They probably are sort of like the Akio car though.

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#7 | Back to Top08-21-2007 11:14:21 PM

SleepDebtFairy
Revolutionary
From: Virginia
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2095

Re: New member says Hi! and a question about car motif

Stormcrow wrote:

And it forces them to stare at Akio's butt when he jumps over the hood.

This leads me to wonder if that is the End of the World they are seeing..

Welcome, Rosie Fan! etc-love

Last edited by SleepDebtFairy (08-21-2007 11:14:40 PM)


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#8 | Back to Top08-24-2007 04:45:10 PM

rhyaniwyn
Myth is my Bitch
From: Tallahassee, FL
Registered: 11-09-2006
Posts: 684
Website

Re: New member says Hi! and a question about car motif

I know someone has said that the car is representative of adulthood.  Gio maybe?  Something along the lines of...

When you're a kid, you can't wait to grow up.  Getting your first car is a big deal and a symbol of passage into (near) adulthood.  Akio has all the material trappings of wealth, independence, power, and maturity while truly possessing none of them.  The car symbolizes all those things that Akio has, or seems to have, that the students might covet.


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#9 | Back to Top09-24-2007 08:03:29 AM

Erebus
Wakaba Wrangler
From: Mexico Distrito Federal
Registered: 09-02-2007
Posts: 12

Re: New member says Hi! and a question about car motif

Watching the series, I realised that during Juri's second duel, the car never seems to move around the arena. Also, we are never shown Ruka's on the driver's seat nor on the passenger one. I am not sure if that means anything at all or  if it was put that way to save screen-time and have enough time to show the Juri-Ruka flashes. I haven't checked if you have already discussed this somewhere else. If so, feel free to ignore this one.


Yet nothing can to nothing fall, nor any place be empty quite ;
Therefore I think my breast hath all those pieces still, though they be not unite ;
And now, as broken glasses show a hundred lesser faces, so
my rags of heart can like, wish, and adore, but after one such love, can love no more.

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#10 | Back to Top09-24-2007 01:50:24 PM

Nocturnalux
Qualified Duellist
From: Portugal
Registered: 09-10-2007
Posts: 741

Re: New member says Hi! and a question about car motif

Stormcrow wrote:

There are seductions and then there are seductions. So yes, I'd say that whoever rides in Akio's car is being seduced, even Ruka in a way. They're just being seduced to different things. To me it kind of plays on the stories about getting into cars with strange people as well.

And it forces them to stare at Akio's butt when he jumps over the hood.

I agree that the car ride is ultimately about seduction. The object of desire changes according the person being seduced but the emotional bound of wanting something is clearly relevant. As someone mentioned the car is also connected with adult power, the idea of riding in cars with stranges also ties rather nicely with this, after all it is an advise that is usually given to children, which is what the students at Ohtori truly are, to ward off against grown ups that might wish to harm them, in this case Akio.

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#11 | Back to Top09-24-2007 02:39:18 PM

bea
Saionji Slapper
From: Milan, Italy
Registered: 05-24-2007
Posts: 27

Re: New member says Hi! and a question about car motif

Erebus wrote:

Watching the series, I realised that during Juri's second duel, the car never seems to move around the arena. Also, we are never shown Ruka's on the driver's seat nor on the passenger one. I am not sure if that means anything at all or  if it was put that way to save screen-time and have enough time to show the Juri-Ruka flashes. I haven't checked if you have already discussed this somewhere else. If so, feel free to ignore this one.

Wow, that's a good point. As a great Juri fan - and one that rewatched the episode on Saturday last -, I'd never really noticed that.
I don't know what to answer actually, and I am longing for a bed, which doesn't help, but that surely needs to be given further attention: we all know that almost everything in SKU, at least thinking about sequences that were not used on multiple episodes, has a reason to be just the way it was animated.

I'll think about it. Thoughts, anyone?


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