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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top10-24-2006 02:48:45 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8731
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Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

I've mentioned this in a couple other threads, so here...I DELIVER. emot-dance Excuse the load time, but it's necessary to prove my point: Juri's two duels match nearly frame by frame, except in the second, Juri is at times falling in line with Utena, while Ruka takes her place. Not sure what I mean? Look! (I apologize for the subtitles.)

http://www.ohtori.nu/forumstuff/juriduel/01.jpg

We're off to a nice start!

http://www.ohtori.nu/forumstuff/juriduel/02.jpg

!! emot-aaa !! What's this, precious?

http://www.ohtori.nu/forumstuff/juriduel/03.jpg

And then suddenly they're back to before!

http://www.ohtori.nu/forumstuff/juriduel/04.jpg

Wow now it's Ruka and Juri but holy crap they still match! emot-aaa

http://www.ohtori.nu/forumstuff/juriduel/05.jpg

Uhoh, Utena's getting ready to bust a move, and that's the point where the duels go down different paths. As we all know, in the first one Juri dodges the Dios attack but gets her rose cut off anyway, and in the second it's the locket the lunge destroys, and Juri throws her rose down. I'm not going to add my own thoughts as to the relevance of this matching, since I spent so damn long making the images. I will later. emot-smile Obviously some of it is them being cheap, but not all of it, since the Juri and Ruka shots still match but are redrawn.

Anyway, DISCUSS! emot-biggrin


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
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#2 | Back to Top10-24-2006 03:13:15 PM

SleepDebtFairy
Revolutionary
From: Virginia
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2095

Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

emot-aaa Wow, I knew they were similar, but.. wow.

I think this gives a hint at just how close Ruka and Juri might have been before. Or how much Ruka trained Juri to be the next head of the fencing team. She's got his moves down perfectly.


"There’s no starting over, no new beginnings, time races on
And you've just gotta keep on keeping on"

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#3 | Back to Top10-24-2006 03:20:14 PM

Dallbun
Tour Guide to Crawling Chaos
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 689

Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

emot-aaa Wow, I knew they were similar, but.. wow.

Yeah, seriously. Nice work, Giovanna!

I think this gives a hint at just how close Ruka and Juri might have been before. Or how much Ruka trained Juri to be the next head of the fencing team. She's got his moves down perfectly.

I thought that for a moment, until I remembered that the fight against Ruka that Juri is flashing back to took place only shortly before the duel. So I guess it's supposed to suggest that Ruka is as much better than Juri as Juri is than Utena (at least during that fight against her when he's focused and motivated and she's not calm at all; after all, I don't think Ruka dominated Utena that much during their duel).

I mean, I'm failing to come up with any deeper comparisons between Utena during Juri's first duel and Juri during her duel against Ruka...

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#4 | Back to Top10-24-2006 03:20:31 PM

Clarice
Well hello, Clarice...
From: New Zealand
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 3102
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Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

I find it telling how in the first duel Juri is smiling in that one shot, and in the next she's looking pretty damn serious. Not such a game anymore, huh?

I could say a lot about this if my brain hadn't just turned to mush, so I will just have to raise the question -- why is Juri echoing Ruka's moves? Is it because as said above, she was his student and they're good moves? Or is it because of the transposition of places? In his duel with Juri, Ruka was fighting to make her realise the folly of her obsessions, her fixations. Is Juri trying to do this for Utena? If so, is it a conscious thing, or is it just incidental? I mean, we never know really how much of the end results the student council understand, when it comes to Anthy and the duels. Nanami tries to talk Utena out of it, and I get the vague impression that Saionji goes along with Touga in the end because he knows Touga is likely to fail and the fact that they act together surely must say SOMETHING to Utena in terms of "This Ends of the World thing is really fucking weird and you ought to be getting out of this...around about now!"

But er, I am off topic here. I think the dual images say something about the infinity loop of the series and the duels -- it's a revolution, a circular movement, an empty movement because THEY HAVE TO CHANGE TO GET OUT DAMMIT WHY WON'T YOU CHANGE?! -- and about Juri's attitude to and comprehension of what Ruka is trying to do for her. Thoughts? I need to bounce off someone else before I try to go any further with this.


It takes forty-seven New Zealanders eight months to make just one batch of 42 Below Vodka. ...luckily, that leaves one of us free to be Prime Minister.

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#5 | Back to Top10-24-2006 03:24:40 PM

Dani
IRG Messiah
From: Virginia, USA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 361

Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

Wow, thanks for doing this. I had no idea they were so similar. But I should have because sometimes when I want to rewatch an episode, I start to think "now which one is the episode where .... does this" and it's hard to remember because is seems like there are a number of possibilities. I know I tried to find the sword-point-in-Utena's-face-shot at one point. I thought I had guessed right that it was Juri's later duel but hey, it's in both. Now I know.

I'm sure there is a thematic reason for the re-drawing of Juri to match Utena. That Ikuhara designed them to be parallel characters has been discussed before.

On the technical side, Ikuhara did say wearily during the movie commentary that the worst thing about Utena was coming up with choreography for the duels. Since Juri gets the best duel songs, did they skimp on animation originality? Hmm.

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#6 | Back to Top10-24-2006 04:13:30 PM

Rosemary Bats
Mikage Mistruster
From: Gloucester, Massachusetts, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Posts: 62

Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

The parts where it isn't obvious re-use for the sake of budget are AMAZING. In Jury's final duel--including her flashback to the evening duel with Ruka--she matches up both with Utena AND Ruka. She's practically Ruka's double when fighting Utena, but when fighting Ruka, she makes the exact same mistakes Utena later makes. Hence: she has mastered Ruka's technique, down to the last detail, in a short time. She doesn't make many variations in it, rather choosing to follow it to the letter.

Why do I think they showed the flashback to the evening duel during the formal duel? Simple: they wanted to show Jury in both positions, as the clearly better fighter and as the fighter finding herself unprepared, almost as if she's in both positions at once, opposing herself. Because when you really boil it all down...she's really only fighting herself, isn't she? She's fighting her conflicting feelings, anger, sadness and regret about Shiori and Ruka and herself, and fighting her own desires.

The proof of this is seen much earlier in the series, when we see that her reason for duleing is that she wants to disprove the power of miracles...by gaining and using a miraculous power. This desire in itself in conflicting, and battles itself the way Jury battles herself.

/end my little musings. school-sherlock


WARNING: Rabid fangirl and well of useless trivia; wielder of endless random theories; pervy fancier of all things Anthy and/or Chigusa.
-I have the honor of playing Tenjou Utena on LJ's wonderful UTENA_RPG.-

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#7 | Back to Top10-24-2006 04:21:04 PM

Ger
Rose Smilee
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 139
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Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

O_O
I have no words....

Actually I do, but only to ask Gio if I can copy and use your caps on my Ruka page??? PLEASE??? *beg*

What does it say about Juri's character, then, that she chose to copy Ruka's fighting technique exactly? Does it show a lack of innovation, of closemindedness, of a belief that only by following the rules can she succeed? Most great athletes don't progress by simply following the techniques of their tutor to the letter. Perhaps we can reflect this on Juri's mindset - "you've never shown me a miracle, therefore, I can't believe in them." Even if we argue that Utena's first duel with Juri was won by a miracle....it was never PROVEN to Juri, without a shadow of a doubt, and that's what she's looking for.

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#8 | Back to Top10-24-2006 04:32:10 PM

skewed_tartan
Touga Topper
From: El Terra De Richard Nixon
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 55
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Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

Well this DOES beg the question:

Since we have a perfect ass shots of Juri and Utena lined up side by side, who does have the better ass? etc-wankgirl

Inquiring minds want to know!school-freud

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#9 | Back to Top10-24-2006 04:32:51 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8731
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Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

Ger wrote:

Actually I do, but only to ask Gio if I can copy and use your caps on my Ruka page??? PLEASE??? *beg*

Oh by all means! emot-smile You know the routine, just give me a link back to EM. Had I thought someone would want 'em, I'd have kept higher quality versions, but feel free!


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
Chiefest of Calamities

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#10 | Back to Top10-24-2006 04:34:10 PM

Razara
Marionette Mistress
From: Wuzzy Happy Akio Town (What?)
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 4694

Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

Every time I watch Ruka and Juri's duel, I can hear Tenshi Souzou Sunawachi Hikari in the back of my head because of that.

One of the most important changes in this duel is the views on miracles. In the first duel, Juri fought to disprove miracles, and Utena found to defend her belief in the prince. In the second duel, however, Juri is now fighting to defend her belief in her feelings for Shiori, whereas Ruka is trying to disprove them. While Juri mocked Utena about her feelings for the prince, Ruka did the same to Juri.

And of course we have the change of power in this battle. Against Utena, Juri is dominate, but against Ruka she can barely keep up. I'm certain that there is a deeper meaning behind Ruka's "battles" throughout those episodes, however I haven't taken the time to put two and two together on that one. (When I do, I'm sure I'll have more to say on the matter.)

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#11 | Back to Top10-24-2006 04:41:42 PM

Ragnarok
Caption Captor
From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4472
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Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

Clarice wrote:

In his duel with Juri, Ruka was fighting to make her realise the folly of her obsessions, her fixations. Is Juri trying to do this for Utena? If so, is it a conscious thing, or is it just incidental?

What needs to be noted is that the Juri/Ruka duel is itself a reflection of the first Juri/Utena duel. So Juri is doing what Ruka did which was what Juri did back in the first arc. In that first Juri/Utena duel, Juri was trying to disprove the power of miracles by beating Utena. Which she gets motivated into after Utena tells her about the prince that gave her the ring. So in the second Juri/Utena fight I have to question how much she wants to win. She's doing her best physically, but I question her determination, if any. It's because she lost to Ruka that she's now dueling Utena, it's basically a debt to pay.

When Utena breaks out the Move to Win Battle(tm) the first time, Juri refuses to lose to it and blocks it. The only time in the series that anyone defeats the move physically. And she had only seen it done once, watching Miki's previous duel, as I recall. In their second duel Juri has supposedly raised her skills to a new level and then had them honed by Ruka (with bonus miracle power) and she already knows the move that's coming and how to stop it. But she doesn't.

The two explanations I can think of are either that she just doesn't have the willpower to win this time around. Or that Ruka told her not to stop it.

That's how I explain it to myself. I'm sure there's more to it than that.

[edit] - Note to self, learn to type faster.

Last edited by Ragnarok (10-24-2006 04:43:48 PM)


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#12 | Back to Top10-24-2006 04:42:20 PM

Dani
IRG Messiah
From: Virginia, USA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 361

Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

Rosemary Bats wrote:

Why do I think they showed the flashback to the evening duel during the formal duel? Simple: they wanted to show Jury in both positions, as the clearly better fighter and as the fighter finding herself unprepared, almost as if she's in both positions at once, opposing herself. Because when you really boil it all down...she's really only fighting herself, isn't she? She's fighting her conflicting feelings, anger, sadness and regret about Shiori and Ruka and herself, and fighting her own desires.

The proof of this is seen much earlier in the series, when we see that her reason for duleing is that she wants to disprove the power of miracles...by gaining and using a miraculous power. This desire in itself in conflicting, and battles itself the way Jury battles herself.

Sweet, I'll buy that absolutely.

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#13 | Back to Top10-24-2006 04:42:41 PM

Ger
Rose Smilee
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 139
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Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

Giovanna wrote:

Ger wrote:

Actually I do, but only to ask Gio if I can copy and use your caps on my Ruka page??? PLEASE??? *beg*

Oh by all means! emot-smile You know the routine, just give me a link back to EM. Had I thought someone would want 'em, I'd have kept higher quality versions, but feel free!

Thank you so much! And naw, these versions are fine. the Ruka site's done in frames that limit how big images can be on the page, and I don't have much space on the server, so I wouldn't know what do with big images at this point emot-keke

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#14 | Back to Top10-24-2006 04:57:51 PM

Clarice
Well hello, Clarice...
From: New Zealand
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 3102
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Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

Ragnarok wrote:

When Utena breaks out the Move to Win Battle(tm) the first time, Juri refuses to lose to it and blocks it. The only time in the series that anyone defeats the move physically. And she had only seen it done once, watching Miki's previous duel, as I recall. In their second duel Juri has supposedly raised her skills to a new level and then had them honed by Ruka (with bonus miracle power) and she already knows the move that's coming and how to stop it. But she doesn't.

...or does the locket just conveniently happen to get in the way...?


It takes forty-seven New Zealanders eight months to make just one batch of 42 Below Vodka. ...luckily, that leaves one of us free to be Prime Minister.

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#15 | Back to Top10-24-2006 05:03:20 PM

Dani
IRG Messiah
From: Virginia, USA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 361

Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

skewed_tartan wrote:

Well this DOES beg the question:

Since we have a perfect ass shots of Juri and Utena lined up side by side, who does have the better ass? etc-wankgirl

Inquiring minds want to know!school-freud

Hmm, I'd have to say Juri has the better ass (because she actually has one), but Utena is still more attractive. And I think fencing uniforms are hot on the women, especially Juri, in the fencing scenes but the men look hotter in the student council uniforms.

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#16 | Back to Top10-24-2006 05:07:30 PM

Dani
IRG Messiah
From: Virginia, USA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 361

Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

Clarice wrote:

Ragnarok wrote:

When Utena breaks out the Move to Win Battle(tm) the first time, Juri refuses to lose to it and blocks it. The only time in the series that anyone defeats the move physically. And she had only seen it done once, watching Miki's previous duel, as I recall. In their second duel Juri has supposedly raised her skills to a new level and then had them honed by Ruka (with bonus miracle power) and she already knows the move that's coming and how to stop it. But she doesn't.

...or does the locket just conveniently happen to get in the way...?

I think Juri is ready to block an attack on the rose but the move goes for the locket instead so she misses the block. What makes Utena go for a locket she doesn't know anything about is a mystery (should we ask Anthy?).

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#17 | Back to Top10-24-2006 06:03:13 PM

Ragnarok
Caption Captor
From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4472
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Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

I think it's more Dios going for it than Utena, and that's the miracle that Ruka buys Juri. Which would be the theory for why Ruka would coach her not to block it that I put forth.


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#18 | Back to Top10-24-2006 06:38:33 PM

Rosemary Bats
Mikage Mistruster
From: Gloucester, Massachusetts, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Posts: 62

Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

Ragnarok wrote:

I think it's more Dios going for it than Utena, and that's the miracle that Ruka buys Juri. Which would be the theory for why Ruka would coach her not to block it that I put forth.

Well, there could be another reason. As we've seen, Jury never lost due to a lack of skill. This leads me to believe it's not the ambiguous "Dios" force doing anything, but someone much more structured and determined.

Jury is generally regarded to be "the best duelist" (until Ruka arrives, that is), or at least the most skilled with the sword. Utena couldn't beat her, even with the power of Dios...and Akio couldn't have that disturbing the layout he had planned for the duels, could he? Because if Utena lost to Jury, it wouldn't cause her to strengthen her "self" the way she did when she lost to Touga, and he needs Utena to be in a certain state before the duel Revolution. So *snip* goes Jury's rose, after the Sword of Dios comes back down from Akio's projected castle, and the duel "Amour" ends the way he needs it to.

The second time, Jury also seemed the clear choice to win, especially after Ruka's coaching. Utena's shot went wild, she didn't even manage to hit Jury's rose with the lunge; but she was SUPPOSED to win right there, as far as Akio was concerned, and as far as the pattern the duels had set so far dictated. Again, a fast one is pulled, and Utena's innacurate shot somehow snags Jury's closed, high-necked coat, opens it, manages to ALSO snag the chain and break it...all without injuring Jury, despite the proximity of blade-to-throat. It was too perfect to be an accident, but since Utena knew nothing of the locket, it wasn't part of her plan. But Akio would know about the locket, and the inevitable plunge Jury would take afterwards. In the end, she takes her own rose off, and once again Utena is the victor, as planned.

I personally believe Akio ochestrates a LOT more than is confirmed in the series. I mean, three coffins accidentally being brought out for the funeral of a couple? Then Akio, masquerading as Dios, showing up to tell The Tale of the Rose to the sad little girl. If he hadn't set up the coffins, and just happened to show up and decide she'd make a good pawn...well, that doesn't sound like something Akio would do at all! He lays his plans and he'll be damnded if they don't go the way he expects. I think the results of Jury's duels are much the same situation as this.


WARNING: Rabid fangirl and well of useless trivia; wielder of endless random theories; pervy fancier of all things Anthy and/or Chigusa.
-I have the honor of playing Tenjou Utena on LJ's wonderful UTENA_RPG.-

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#19 | Back to Top10-24-2006 07:38:03 PM

angelicreation
The Breast Saviour
From: Denver, CO
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 1323
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Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

When I first watched the duel between Ruka and Juri, i went, "Damn, he's schooling her like she did Utena."  And then I thought more about it.  After much contemplation, I see the similarities in the battles happening because in that duel with Ruka, Juri is fighting for someone other than herself, just like Utena.  She's fighting for Shiori, fighting to "free" her from Ruka.  Just as Utena is fighting to free Anthy from her place as Rose Bride.  As for why Ruka did the same things Juri did in her duels against Utena, well that one's easy.  Ruka taught Juri everything she knew as far as fencing technique.

And why Juri didn't beat Ruka in the end like Utena beat her?  There was no mystic al influence of Dios involved in that fight.  It was pure skill versus skill.  Had Utena and Juri dueled alongside the lake with neither of them being influenced by outside powers (essentially), Juri would have done to Utena exactly what Ruka had done to her.


Life is short: break the rules, forgive quickly, kiss slowly, love truly, laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that made you smile.

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#20 | Back to Top10-24-2006 07:51:05 PM

ZSPACE
Touga Topper
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 57

Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

Dallbun wrote:

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

emot-aaa Wow, I knew they were similar, but.. wow.

Yeah, seriously. Nice work, Giovanna!

I think this gives a hint at just how close Ruka and Juri might have been before. Or how much Ruka trained Juri to be the next head of the fencing team. She's got his moves down perfectly.

I thought that for a moment, until I remembered that the fight against Ruka that Juri is flashing back to took place only shortly before the duel. So I guess it's supposed to suggest that Ruka is as much better than Juri as Juri is than Utena (at least during that fight against her when he's focused and motivated and she's not calm at all; after all, I don't think Ruka dominated Utena that much during their duel).

I mean, I'm failing to come up with any deeper comparisons between Utena during Juri's first duel and Juri during her duel against Ruka...

The only reason why Ruka won that duel with Juri is because she was such a fucked up mind state whith him knowing about her love for Shiroi and she hating Juri. Plus, maybe Juri threw the duel because she really wanted to break free from Shiori and saw this as the only way out. In the end Ruka said that she Juri was better than everyone else and her no one ( not even the power of Dios) could stop her if she was not restrained ( or something like that).

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#21 | Back to Top10-29-2006 01:56:20 AM

ShatteredMirror
Yaoi Pet #1
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 8858

Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

Rosemary Bats wrote:

Why do I think they showed the flashback to the evening duel during the formal duel? Simple: they wanted to show Jury in both positions, as the clearly better fighter and as the fighter finding herself unprepared, almost as if she's in both positions at once, opposing herself. Because when you really boil it all down...she's really only fighting herself, isn't she? She's fighting her conflicting feelings, anger, sadness and regret about Shiori and Ruka and herself, and fighting her own desires.

The proof of this is seen much earlier in the series, when we see that her reason for duleing is that she wants to disprove the power of miracles...by gaining and using a miraculous power. This desire in itself in conflicting, and battles itself the way Jury battles herself.

/end my little musings. school-sherlock

Got it in one. Well, more than one. But really, you've got it here I think. This duel was more about Juri than about Utena, even though Utena was the victor, again.


Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source.

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#22 | Back to Top10-29-2006 07:55:05 AM

Hina the Prince
Friend, Perhaps
From: Israel
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 320

Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

Gio and Rosemary Bats, you are geniuses. Not as much as Ikuhara, though. -stares- I love that man more with every passing day.

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#23 | Back to Top10-29-2006 02:00:40 PM

Nariel
Miki Molester
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 32

Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

Okay, that is freakishly scary similarity. emot-aaa I love the analysis you guys have done! Wow, I never noticed how much those duels matched, I wonder if there are any others which match like that????


The ruler of the universe has spoken.

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#24 | Back to Top10-29-2006 02:44:12 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8731
Website

Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

Rosemary Bats wrote:

ROSEMARY BATS PRETTY MUCH TOTALLY MAKES ANYTHING I SAY USELESS

Yeah I think you definitely took the words right out of my fingers before I even properly sorted them out in my head. Awesome. emot-dance

As for how Utena destroys the locket...that would definitely be orchestrated I think, by Akio or Anthy or one of them working for other. (It seems very unimportant to me whose job it was since it was still Akio's decision.) But that really drives the point of how controlled all the duels are, and that even the Dios that helps her isn't the real deal. If an outside source decided what this lunge would hit, then an outside source has decided what it hits every single time.

It's been mentioned in the thread, but I'm really liking chewing on this whole Ruka making a deal to decide for himself that the locket is what needs to go. If not his soul, he sold his life to the devil for the woman he loves! school-devil (Romantiku, desu ne?)


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
Chiefest of Calamities

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#25 | Back to Top10-29-2006 03:48:22 PM

Rosemary Bats
Mikage Mistruster
From: Gloucester, Massachusetts, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Posts: 62

Re: Juri/Ruka/Utena! Analyze deliberate dupe shots from Juri's duels!

Giovanna wrote:

Rosemary Bats wrote:

ROSEMARY BATS PRETTY MUCH TOTALLY MAKES ANYTHING I SAY USELESS

Yeah I think you definitely took the words right out of my fingers before I even properly sorted them out in my head. Awesome. emot-dance

As for how Utena destroys the locket...that would definitely be orchestrated I think, by Akio or Anthy or one of them working for other. (It seems very unimportant to me whose job it was since it was still Akio's decision.) But that really drives the point of how controlled all the duels are, and that even the Dios that helps her isn't the real deal. If an outside source decided what this lunge would hit, then an outside source has decided what it hits every single time.

It's been mentioned in the thread, but I'm really liking chewing on this whole Ruka making a deal to decide for himself that the locket is what needs to go. If not his soul, he sold his life to the devil for the woman he loves! school-devil (Romantiku, desu ne?)

LMFAO. emot-biggrin Oh man, I don't try to make anyone's else stuff sound useless, really I don't. My mind just runs about 100 miles a minute, so I've got theories for everything. Not even saying that most of them are anywhere NEAR correct, I just have 'em. And I'm flattered, Hina the Prince, and by your kind words in calling me a "genius." emot-smile

Ruka knowing the locket would be hit, and willingly giving his life for that, is quite intriguing. It's certainly something for me to chew on for a while. If that's the case, I sort of feel even worse for Ruka than I did before: that's an awful small miracle to sell your life for. emot-frown And I DO feel bad for him. Yeah, he's somewhat Machiavellian, and yeah, he was motivated as much by his desire for Jury as his desire to free her...but he acted on it in any case, aware of what it would cost him, and as Anthy said in the movie-manga: "It's what we DO that never lies."

Last edited by Rosemary Bats (10-29-2006 03:48:55 PM)


WARNING: Rabid fangirl and well of useless trivia; wielder of endless random theories; pervy fancier of all things Anthy and/or Chigusa.
-I have the honor of playing Tenjou Utena on LJ's wonderful UTENA_RPG.-

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