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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top05-03-2007 06:52:10 PM

Sevelle
Yaoi Pet #2
From: Virginia the Great
Registered: 11-07-2006
Posts: 1615

What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

Mokushi Kushimo
Shimoku Kumoshi
Moshiku Shikumo


Does it have any meaning, or is it there to fill in space? This greatly bothers me because I love my Utena songs . . . I love this song! (Well the second version, with out the manly voice overtones. It was some beauty either Gio or Yasha posted ages ago and I kept it.)

Anyways . . .


sometimes you make me feel
like Iím living at the edge of the world
"it's just the way I smile"
you said

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#2 | Back to Top05-03-2007 07:03:48 PM

BioKraze
Faceless Master
From: Yuma, Arizona (USA)
Registered: 11-26-2006
Posts: 8280

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

I swiped the lyrics from another Utena site, and so far...

Mokushi, kushimo!
Shimoku, kumoshi!
Moshiku, shikumo!


translates to...

Apocalypse, revolution!
Evolution, solution!
Salvation, revelation!


I could be wrong, though. In this case, blame the site I yoinked the lyrics to, not me!

And I've mastered singing it in tune as fast as they can, too! emot-keke


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#3 | Back to Top05-03-2007 07:08:32 PM

Sevelle
Yaoi Pet #2
From: Virginia the Great
Registered: 11-07-2006
Posts: 1615

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

But I thought Kakumei was Revolution? DAMN THOSE JAPANESE AND THEIR MULTI-WORDED . . . !!!!

*SPazzes*


sometimes you make me feel
like Iím living at the edge of the world
"it's just the way I smile"
you said

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#4 | Back to Top05-03-2007 07:09:40 PM

Razara
Marionette Mistress
From: Wuzzy Happy Akio Town (What?)
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 4692

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

It's different ways of rearranging the syllables of "Mokushiroku," meaning "Apocalypse."

It does this a few other times in the duel songs. In Kozue and Miki's duel song, it says,

Sekai kawarazu, watashi, watashi kawarazu (The world does not change, and I, I do not change.)
Kawara warazu razuka zukawa kawarazu.

In this song, it's rearranging the syllables in the word, "Kawarazu," or, "Unchanging."

In Ruka's duel, the lyrics go:

Watashi sekai ni futari dake futari (I'll make the world just for the two of us)
Tarifu rifuta futari.

It's rearranging the syllables in the word, "Two people."

Am I forgetting anything?


In Nanami's duel episode, they translated it as the way BioKraze posted it. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that that's correct. The people who translated that episode suck, and I could have done a better job translating that duel song.

Edit: Now I've got the ending of Ruka's duel song stuck in my head. "Watashi sekai ni andorogynusu~!"

Last edited by Razara (05-03-2007 07:10:53 PM)

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#5 | Back to Top05-03-2007 07:11:44 PM

BioKraze
Faceless Master
From: Yuma, Arizona (USA)
Registered: 11-26-2006
Posts: 8280

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

Hey, I made the disclaimer that I could be wrong.

If you want the link, I will provide: Lyrics to Absolute Destiny Apocalypse (framed site)

Note the differences between what they have listed and what the subtitles say. There's a difference there. So if anybody's wrong, it's the site I linked.


Roses have thorns to stop those who would dare deny their right to live.
Razara's Postulate: For every lover of lesbians out there, there is an equal and opposite attraction to Dippin' Dots.

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#6 | Back to Top05-03-2007 07:19:07 PM

Razara
Marionette Mistress
From: Wuzzy Happy Akio Town (What?)
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 4692

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

Actually, I didn't mean to insult that translation, or the website you got it from. It's just the official translate on the DVD's that gets me annoyed. I believe that's the one with, "Look, I find a little kitten!" and "Gracefully Cool: The One Who Picks That Flower," not to mention the beginning of the episode "The Castle Where Eternity Dwells" that says, "Next Episode!" emot-gonk

Last edited by Razara (05-03-2007 07:19:35 PM)

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#7 | Back to Top05-03-2007 07:19:32 PM

Sevelle
Yaoi Pet #2
From: Virginia the Great
Registered: 11-07-2006
Posts: 1615

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

Oh well- I like my first Nanami duel song:

Revolution, Evolution, Everlution.


sometimes you make me feel
like Iím living at the edge of the world
"it's just the way I smile"
you said

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#8 | Back to Top05-03-2007 08:20:07 PM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6018
Website

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

I tend to trust the scripts we have on EM here, and they say it's just a nonsense rearrangement of syllables. If you have a particular song in mind, just go to the episode that the song is from, as I believe all of the translations are there.

Also, I was misled! I thought maybe we were going to discuss the meaning of absolute destiny apocalypse and relevance to the show. I don't know what to say about it, though emot-keke


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#9 | Back to Top05-03-2007 08:59:36 PM

Imaginary Bad Bug
Revolutionary
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2168
Website

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

I think there's an essay about it in the notes with OST4, but I don't have that handy right now...  I think it's just an analysis of the song itself, and its relation to the play it's originally from, pre-SKU.

Last edited by Imaginary Bad Bug (05-03-2007 09:00:58 PM)


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#10 | Back to Top05-04-2007 12:02:55 PM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 588

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

Someone once claimed that absolute destiny apocalypse could be translated as: final revelation of destiny. Any thoughts?

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#11 | Back to Top05-04-2007 01:01:47 PM

Ragnarok
Caption Captor
From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4472
Website

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

Geneon, who released (some of) the OST's use the translation "The Revelation of Absolute Destiny."

I assume their translation was done more directly, word-for-word rather than ecompassing the idea behind the title.

Incidentally, for the lyrics at they end, they've translated the word revelation in rearranged form:

Geneon wrote:

revelation lationreve
tionrevela larevetion
revetionla tionlareve

Last edited by Ragnarok (05-04-2007 01:02:55 PM)


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#12 | Back to Top05-04-2007 03:43:07 PM

Stormcrow
Magical Flying Moron
From: Los Angeles
Registered: 04-24-2007
Posts: 5971
Website

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

brian wrote:

Someone once claimed that absolute destiny apocalypse could be translated as: final revelation of destiny. Any thoughts?

apokolipsos from the Greek, translates literally to revelation.  Thus, the most recent book from the new testament was originally called "The Apocolypse of St. John the Divine", and only later came to be known as Revelations.  Through this association, apocolypse came to mean "The End of the World".  school-eng101 Damn, I love etymology.

On a related note, armageddon (sp?) derives from the Hebrew Har-Megidon, which signifies the mountains near the town of Meggido.  How it came to mean the end of the world, I have no idea.


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#13 | Back to Top05-04-2007 09:20:35 PM

Ragnarok
Caption Captor
From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4472
Website

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

I thought the definition of armeggedon was a climactic battle between good and evil. And that the mountains were an area which saw some large scale battles?


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#14 | Back to Top05-04-2007 09:32:05 PM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 588

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

Armegeddon is a geographic location in Israel. More battles are supposed to have been fought there than anywhere else on earth. In prophetic terms I don't believe it is so much between different national armies as all the armies of the world versus Christ.

It's hard to see a relationship between that and anything Utena. Those words seem like almost gibberish to me and perhaps that is the point. Maybe they are just metaphysical Akio-esque smoke designed to distract the duellists.

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#15 | Back to Top05-04-2007 10:14:27 PM

Imaginary Bad Bug
Revolutionary
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2168
Website

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

brian wrote:

Those words seem like almost gibberish to me and perhaps that is the point. Maybe they are just metaphysical Akio-esque smoke designed to distract the duellists.

What?  You mean ZUM plays over PA speakers as Utena ascends to the duelling arena?  I thought it was music to set the mood for us, the viewer. emot-confused

emot-wink emot-biggrin emot-dance



That would be interesting though if the duel choruses played in the arena as they dueled.  The only thing is it might devalue the metaphorical nature of the duels themselves...  All of a sudden it would be a spectator sport. emot-biggrin

Last edited by Imaginary Bad Bug (05-04-2007 10:15:06 PM)


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#16 | Back to Top05-04-2007 10:18:06 PM

BioKraze
Faceless Master
From: Yuma, Arizona (USA)
Registered: 11-26-2006
Posts: 8280

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

Ragnarok wrote:

Geneon wrote:

revelation lationreve
tionrevela larevetion
revetionla tionlareve

Somehow, that sounds better than what Rinbu Academy posted on their site... emot-keke


Roses have thorns to stop those who would dare deny their right to live.
Razara's Postulate: For every lover of lesbians out there, there is an equal and opposite attraction to Dippin' Dots.

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#17 | Back to Top05-05-2007 12:33:31 AM

Almaser
Qualified Duellist
From: Brisbane
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 727

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

Stormcrow wrote:

brian wrote:

Someone once claimed that absolute destiny apocalypse could be translated as: final revelation of destiny. Any thoughts?

apokolipsos from the Greek, translates literally to revelation.  Thus, the most recent book from the new testament was originally called "The Apocolypse of St. John the Divine", and only later came to be known as Revelations.  Through this association, apocolypse came to mean "The End of the World".  school-eng101 Damn, I love etymology.

On a related note, armageddon (sp?) derives from the Hebrew Har-Megidon, which signifies the mountains near the town of Meggido.  How it came to mean the end of the world, I have no idea.

More related notes!
Mokushiroku isn't really the Japanese word for Apocalypse, that's Mokushi. That little -roku means 'record.' Literally translated, it means "The Record of the Apocalypse." Which is the Japanese translation of the Bible's name for "The Apocalypse of St. John The Divine." So there you go, it's actually talking about the Bible! Kinda.school-eng101

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#18 | Back to Top05-05-2007 12:51:24 AM

MissMocha
Bettie Page Princess
From: Tallahassee, Fl
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 4632

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

...this show makes my head hurt. Good grief. emot-frown


The first time you looked at her curves you were hooked
And the glances you took, took hold of you and demanded that you stay
And sunk in their teeth, bit your heart and released
Such a charge that you need another touch, another taste, another fix

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#19 | Back to Top05-06-2007 12:48:24 AM

ShatteredMirror
Yaoi Pet #1
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 8858

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

It makes mine hurt too, but it's worth it.


Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source.

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#20 | Back to Top05-06-2007 08:03:38 AM

Pandora
Pathtracer
Registered: 04-05-2007
Posts: 351

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

I know, it does mine too, but I think that's half the appeal.

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#21 | Back to Top05-06-2007 12:42:37 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: What exactly does the ending of Absolute Destiny Apocalypse mean?

Mokushi kushimo shimoku kumoshi moshiku shikumo is nonsense, I promise emot-smile  Senseless anagrammania to create a falling-apart effect of a kind that it's hard to replicate in English.  For my very favorite example of this kind of Japanese syllable-play, see the later dueling song "Astragalus Earthly Backgammon:"

Watashi watashi watashi watashi watashi watashi SOFIA watashi watashi watashi SOFIA watashi watashi SOFIA watashi SOFIA watashi SOFIA wata SO shiwa FI tashi A watashi SOFIA wa SO ta FI shi A!

If I were subbing "mokushi kushimo shimoku kumoshi moshiku shikumo," I can see myself using any of the options that have been mentioned.  I think I'd probably end up going with an alternate way of creating the impression of semantic chaos:

Revolution, revelation, evolution, elevation, dissolution, desolation!

Of course, the "mokushi kushimo" line doesn't literally mean ANY of that, but the feeling of chaotic wordplay is preserved.

As has been mentioned, mokushi = apocalypse; mokushiroku = the Book of Apocalypse (i.e. of Revelations).  It's farfetched to translate "zettai unmei mokushiroku" as "revelations of the absolute destiny" on this basis, however; while "apocalypse" in English derives from a root meaning "revelation," "mokushi" in Japanese does not, and the song is after all written in Japanese.  If Ikuhara wanted to play with that kind of double meaning, he'd have used the English word "apocalypse," as he used the English word "revolution" in the opening song to suggest a double meaning that "kakumei" does not carry.

Last edited by satyreyes (05-06-2007 12:43:05 PM)

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