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#1 | Back to Top04-17-2007 12:10:57 AM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6018
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Character Analysis: Touga

I've been thinking about this one for a while, spurred on by comments people have made about the character of Touga. People have mentioned that his character isn't developed, or that he doesn't have enough of a background. It's not that either of these things are exactly true; Touga isn't as overtly fleshed out as some other characters, but he certainly gets as much or more background than Utena herself. The problem is that you have to dig to find out what kind of a person he is.

Now, I don't want to set myself up as the ultimate authority here; we all know that because of the way we see things, the show and the characters in it change. This is simply what I think about the character, and I hope you all post your own views.

The key to being able to decipher Touga's behavior isn't in his present actions, or his past experiences, but in the progression between the two which was not shown. The easiest example to pick, and probably the one that stands out the most about him, is the horde of girls. Touga's a self-assured, popular, handsome young man; it follows that he'd have a horde of girls following him around, right?

http://www.ohtori.nu/gallery/unveiling/UnveilingCap0030.jpg

...well, not really. Juri is self-assured and confident, and beautiful. We never see her surrounded by adoring guys, or girls for that matter. Utena, on the other hand, does have her own entourage, but they don't cling quite so tightly as Touga's fans do. Utena's fans seem content to wave and be greeted, and only rush her when she's done something like beat the entire boy's basketball team. Touga, however, is surrounded almost constantly from what we can gather of his school social life. This doesn't strike me as being abnormal, either-- we expect the bishounen to be surrounded by girls vying for his attention. But then there's Saionji. It's pretty evident that the rest of the school has no idea that Saionji has such a lack of control over his temper, and that even if his fans know, they don't care. But even so Saionji looks to be, on the surface, as much a playboy as Touga except that you won't find him encouraging his fans.

There's the key-- Touga encourages his floozies to hang around him. We never see him do it, but there's enough evidence in the form of Saionji and Utena to say that the way the girls flock around Touga is not normal fangirl behavior. Why would Touga encourage girls to surround him in the first place? In a general sense, why does anyone pave the way for any specific thing to happen? Easy answer: because they want or need that particular thing to occur. Touga wants or needs his floozies to hang around him. A want or need is created by a lack; what is Touga lacking that makes this the easiest way to satisfy it? What makes the horde of girls satisfy his need in particular?

http://ohtori.nu/forumstuff/snaps-(047).jpg

And what about this?

Touga has been surrounded by people all of his life. That much is easy to see. But does he seem any less confident when he is not surrounded? No, not at all. If anything, he seems sharper and more determined in the Seitokai meetings than he does when he's surrounded by his floozies. From that, you can assume rather a lot. The girls must be a comfortable place for him, or else he wouldn't seem relaxed around them. A group of people paying attention to him is a relaxing situation for him.

Take another look at that picture above. Does Touga seem at all relaxed there?

No. No, he doesn't. His posture is very proper, and very stiff. His knees are drawn together, his back is straight, his head is held high, and his hands are in his lap. Sit like that, and tell me how it feels. I know how it feels on me-- it feels formal, forced, and a bit uncomfortable. I can only imagine that he must feel the same way, as you never see him sit quite like that when he’s relaxed. It isn't just the presence of others that makes Touga comfortable. The birthday party is different, and here’s where we have to leap into assumptions.

First assumption: the birthday party isn’t held for Touga’s sake at all. Sure, it’s his birthday, but this isn’t a groundless assumption to make. The interaction between Nanami and his parents makes it clear that Nanami wasn’t allowed to choose a present to give to Touga. Not that she was told she couldn’t give him a present; if she’d been told that, she wouldn’t have gone out and found one. She’s too young to rebel against her parents in such a visible way. But she wasn’t given a choice in what Touga received, and she was given no opportunity to give a gift of her own. This speaks rather loudly about their parents; how many parents can you think of that wouldn’t be delighted to help their adorable little daughter give a present to their son for his birthday? I remember times in my childhood when I was told to pick out a present to give to my brother. But since she wasn’t specifically told not to, we can assume that their parents simply never thought to tell her. The company at the party is also very strange, isn’t it? It seems out of place for a group of adults in formal wear to attend the birthday party of a young boy. Where are Touga’s friends? People haul in entire classrooms full of children for their children’s birthdays, so where are the children at this one? Further than that, whose great idea was it anyway to put a young boy, probably eight or so, into a room full of adults, sit him on a ‘throne’, forget to let his sister give him a present, and call it a birthday party? It’s no wonder that Touga looks very formal and a little uncomfortable. He knows, even if Nanami doesn’t, that this is a social function and not a birthday party at all.

Surprisingly, he takes it well. I certainly wouldn’t. His thoughtless parents have used him as the reason to get their friends or business associates together, but he stays on his best behavior even so. There are several possible reasons for this. Touga could be learning the use of social graces, for his own purposes. I put that one a little beyond him, due to his age. Social niceties are not high on any young boy’s internal list of things to learn. He could be naturally well-behaved. Surprisingly, compared to his behavior later, I think this does have some bearing on it. Touga says something in the later episodes that seems very out of place for his character, but makes sense with this theory.

Touga:  You're driving quite fast.
Akio:  She's purring nicely, don't you think? Care to take the wheel?
Touga:  What? But I still don't...
Akio:  You're too strict...

This has been translated in various ways (‘but I’m not’ being the one I remember right now), and can have many different interpretations, but the easiest one is to finish Touga’s sentence thus:

Touga:  What? But I still don't have a driver’s license.

He’s 17, and in Japan, you need to be 18 to drive a car. He’s driven a motorcycle, and  driving a car is the same idea with a different configuration; unless we want to stray into the realms of the magical (Akio’s car having power of its own, which I’ve never given credence to), the main reason Touga would give a kneejerk refusal is because of an internal respect for rules. This also shows itself in the repeated elevator sequence; if we’re to take that as actually happening whenever the Seitokai meets, the fact that Touga carries it on even though he very likely could call it quits and no one would care, shows again a respect for rules. As does his order to Saionji in the last episode; he tells Saionji not to take off the ring. Obviously, nothing bad is going to happen if they do take off their rings, as Nanami removes hers, but this too shows a respect for rules. As I said, it’s possible that he was a naturally well behaved child, as we see these instances of respect for rules popping up at odd moments throughout the show.

Another reason Touga would behave well in a situation like that, and the one I think had the most bearing on it, is desire for approval and affection. People desire approval. It’s a fact of life. There is no person that can get along knowing that no one approves of their actions. This assumption is the hardest to find evidence for, as Touga doesn’t overtly desire approval and affection in his later life. It is the one thing, however, that strings together Touga’s behavior at that long-ago birthday party, his hordes of paramours, and the callous way he treats people that desire his affection. If he tried every day of his life to make his parents love him and approve of him, and he failed, he would try it with others. This is the reason he would collect and encourage a horde of fangirls. He would need someone to show affection for him on demand, and that demand would be all the greater if it was frustrated earlier in life. It would take more people to satisfy it, as he would very often need the reassurance that he wasn’t inconsequential and that someone cared about him. When he had satisfied himself that he could get affection whenever he wanted, this affection would become unnecessary to him, which explains the lack of consequence he attaches to his floozies. As well, a lack of affection would make him bitter; to need someone’s affection is to be in their power. They are able to control your mood simply by giving or withholding affection. If he saw that and resented it, he would certainly do the same thing to others out of a need to make up for his previous powerlessness. Nanami desires his affection; obviously he gave and withheld that affection as he saw fit, and it turned her into the slavishly adoring creature we see now. Saionji desires his affection, and Touga has done the same there as well—it has turned out far worse for Saionji, however, as our perceptive green-haired friend saw that Touga was amusing himself, and developed an inferiority complex over whether he was worth anything. The fangirls desire Touga’s affection, and he plays them off each other for his own amusement.

What could possibly make this need so strong that Touga would warp the people he should have valued most? This much is simple. Touga is older than Nanami, and as Gio said in Motive and Source, he very likely remembers what it’s like to be loved for himself, by his birth parents. That’s the only thing that could guarantee that he would search it out with such single-mindedness—the memory of love, and the knowledge that he no longer has it.

Touga has sometimes been accused of being a heartless character, but by my line of reasoning, he is quite the opposite. It’s true that he’s cruel, and it’s true that he’s manipulative, but in my opinion, he learned these things out of self defense. He very likely made himself into a playboy because he needed to be loved any way that he could find it, and he very likely toys with the love of others in revenge for the way his child’s heart was toyed with. No matter what, though, he is not heartless, and it is in fact the needs of his heart that drive him to be what he is.


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#2 | Back to Top04-17-2007 12:47:04 AM

ShatteredMirror
Yaoi Pet #1
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 8858

Re: Character Analysis: Touga

Nice analysis. I wish I had something to add to it really. I did generally think that Touga's behavior was a product of being neglected by his parents but I couldn't really put down why it happened the way it did per se. Perhaps I'll be back later.


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#3 | Back to Top04-17-2007 12:56:05 AM

MissMocha
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From: Tallahassee, Fl
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 4632

Re: Character Analysis: Touga

I agree, but I think less neglect and more conditional love. Touga's a charmer and suave because that's what he had to be in order to get any sort of affection or attention from his parents. You see it all the time -conditional love is what makes guys into real casanovas. They know exactly what to say to charm themselves through life. I don't think it's intentionally done. Touga goes through life acting the way he always has, not knwoing why he does -hey, we all do crazy stuff like that. emot-rolleyes But because he had to be outstandingly well behaved and perfect as a child, the only exposure he really has to affection is the fairly eveident coldness from his parents. Although he did have Nanami and Saionji's hero worship -maybe he throws it in the same boat as his parents.

I agree that Touga uses the Horde to get what he wants -attention and affection. But it begs a question -if he uses their adoration and affection as validation, why not have a girlfriend? Whoever that lucky girl is would certainly fawn all over him, thus giving him the much needed attention boost, and it's pretty obvious that the other girls wouldn't stop flirting or harassing orwhathave you him. Is it just a case of him wanting quantity? Do you think he's ever had one in the past? I can't see him really dating anyone. Maybe it's because he's a playboy. emot-wink

Fabby essay, tho, Yasha. I wish I had half as much insight into the characters. emot-frown


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#4 | Back to Top04-17-2007 01:09:36 AM

SleepDebtFairy
Revolutionary
From: Virginia
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2095

Re: Character Analysis: Touga

Wow. That was an amazing analysis, and I thank you very much for it. Touga is one of the characters that confuses me the most. I don't think he wasn't developed enough.. it's just that his development seems more subtle and hidden. He comes off as the typical playboy, yet mysterious at the same time.

Ignoring the movie-canon of Touga's background, wasn't he and Nanami adopted in the series too, or at least it seemed to hint at that? I was always under the impression that they were adopted to a wealthy but neglectful family. Your analysis of Touga's birthday party seems to fit that. Even though I didn't really notice all of that, I subtly noticed that Touga seemed uncomfortable, but I wasn't sure why. But, you're right.. any kid would be uncomfortable with a "birthday party" like that. He is in a room full of adults and is surrounded by them, but they're ignoring him. It's no wonder why he seems relieved when Nanami shows up with her gift. Someone his age, who adores him, and has a present especially for him. emot-keke

I also thought it was strange how respectful to the rules Touga was in that conversation with Akio, but I didn't think about it too much. Touga really is a subtle character. He's one of those guys that wants to put on an act and always seem okay and happy. When I think of how uncomfortable little Touga looks at his birthday party now that I realize it because of your observation, I want to hug him. But it looks like he's trying to look reasonably okay/calm and is respecting his parent's rules, and doesn't want to appear all "woe as me".

Also, the only girl Touga every really goes to greath lengths to impress is Utena. That's because she doesn't want him back, and he isn't used to that. So he's constantly trying to figure out how to be appealing to her. I'm not sure if I would call it love or not, but as he said, she does shake his morals.

I agree that Touga isn't heartless. I don't think any character is. But his actions are usually very manipulative, and as you as, a self-defense.

Beautiful analysis. etc-love etc-love

Last edited by SleepDebtFairy (04-17-2007 01:12:57 AM)


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#5 | Back to Top04-17-2007 01:42:50 AM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6018
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Re: Character Analysis: Touga

morosemocha wrote:

I agree, but I think less neglect and more conditional love.

I can see either way working out to create that kind of mindset. The reason I don't mention conditional love is because I don't recall any evidence of love on Touga's parents' behalf. Like, any. You can put that down to SKU's prejudice against adults and assume that they did show affection at times, but I make enough assumptions as it is and I didn't want to make another. emot-redface

morosemocha wrote:

Although he did have Nanami and Saionji's hero worship -maybe he throws it in the same boat as his parents.

That's an especially complex question, and I'm kinda saving it for a couple of posts on his relationships with Nanami and Saionji. They each deserve their own, I think, although some of the motivations are shared.

morosemocha wrote:

I agree that Touga uses the Horde to get what he wants -attention and affection. But it begs a question -if he uses their adoration and affection as validation, why not have a girlfriend? Whoever that lucky girl is would certainly fawn all over him, thus giving him the much needed attention boost, and it's pretty obvious that the other girls wouldn't stop flirting or harassing orwhathave you him. Is it just a case of him wanting quantity? Do you think he's ever had one in the past?

I don't think it would matter if Touga had ever had a girlfriend or not-- he would still end up the way he is now. Probably at some point he tried it, but I think in his case, it's a simple question of how much he had to put into it vs. how much he got out of it. A guy like Touga wouldn't get enough affection out of a single relationship in comparison to the work he had to do to get that affection; there's just not enough there to sustain him if he has to focus his attention on one person and try and develop some sort of relationship with her. And if he doesn't, he eventually loses the relationship, reinforcing what he's been taught about how little he's worth loving. In comparison to his floozies, who take very little upkeep in terms of attention to any specific one and provide all the desire, affection, and need that he needs to survive, a girlfriend is a bad choice.

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

Also, the only girl Touga every really goes to greath lengths to impress is Utena. That's because she doesn't want him back, and he isn't used to that. So he's constantly trying to figure out how to be appealing to her. I'm not sure if I would call it love or not, but as he said, she does shake his morals.

Stay tuned. cool


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#6 | Back to Top04-17-2007 04:30:54 AM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
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Re: Character Analysis: Touga

It sounds like that Touga's birthday was little more than an excuse for Touga's parents to invite certain people over, most likely to reinforce and create tight social (or political) bonds which the 'old-school' upper class (and/or political canidates) are very fond of doing.  (Funerals of VIPs are also favourite times for these sorts of people to do things like that.)

So in a sense, Touga smooshing up to Akio could be argued as a habit he picked up from his parents to increase your , statue, influence and/or power.

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#7 | Back to Top04-17-2007 11:56:57 AM

rhyaniwyn
Myth is my Bitch
From: Tallahassee, FL
Registered: 11-09-2006
Posts: 684
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Re: Character Analysis: Touga

I believe Yasha's analysis is correct and that Tamago's right on the ball.  Touga does have a respect for rules.  This is part of his personality that is demonstrated at a young age.  He respects rules; he absorbs the conventions of the people around him and operates according to those conventions.  Touga's observations of what other people are doing is what inspires his own behavior.  Touga's not a follower, but he feels it's to his advantage.

Touga is used to being surrounded by crowds.  His family is evidently quite wealthy and probably well-placed socially.  His parents obviously make use of social conventions (like the birthday party) to benefit themselves--Touga learned this from them. 

They treat him like a "little prince".  The social graces he has learned would encourage his fangirls to behave as an entourage.  My point being that this is partially a habit on his part, an expectation so ingrained he never gives it a second thought.

He was obviously favored over Nanami as the male child, as well.  We can assume that his family operated with a very "traditional", strictly patriarchal order.  Touga therefore has fairly narrow-minded attitudes toward women.  This comes out in his behavior toward his entourage, toward Utena, and his comments to Nanami in "Nanami's Egg.  The behavior of the women and the fangirls around him doesn't teach him any better.  Utena, however, begins to.

His monetary and social advantages aside, Touga lacked real affection growing up, in addition to being adopted (probably).  His willingness to remain so surrounded by hordes of adoring girls gives away the deep need for affection Touga has--one that he's probably not aware of yet.  His adoption--and abandonment by his natural parents--probably originally contribued to his desire to be "well behaved."

However, there's a very important scene (in my opinion) later in the series that shows clearly how Touga feels about the girls who have crushes on him.  He treats them "callously" in the sense that his affection for them isn't real, and he is a "playboy."  But in a later episode, an average girl comes running up to Touga with a love letter.  She is obviously nervous and embarassed, but stutters out that she is infatuated with Touga and how happy it would make her if he just read the letter.  Touga tells her that her sincerety is very beautiful and kisses her, whereupon she runs away with her eyes sparkling.  Touga's demeanor during this exchange is very interesting.  He sighs at being interrupted in his thoughts, but when he turns around he shows no sign of irritation or impatience--he is utterly charming and polite.  And his action in kissing the girl can be seen as kindness--instead of rejecting her or putting her off, he fulfills her romantic daydreams.

This shows us several things.  One, Touga's arrogant as hell.  Two, he thinks that girls have nothing in their heads but romantic fluff.  And, three, he is able to think about what other people feel and desire (even if he's wrong); he doesn't act entirely for his own gratification. 

He definitely gets something out of "playing the prince", just as he gets something out of accepting and encouraging the affections of the girls at the school.  But those are not his only motives.  Touga's got potential, and I believe he makes genuine progress late in the series.

Last edited by rhyaniwyn (04-17-2007 11:58:17 AM)


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#8 | Back to Top04-17-2007 03:43:54 PM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
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Re: Character Analysis: Touga

rhyaniwyn wrote:

But in a later episode, an average girl comes running up to Touga with a love letter.  She is obviously nervous and embarassed, but stutters out that she is infatuated with Touga and how happy it would make her if he just read the letter.  Touga tells her that her sincerety is very beautiful and kisses her, whereupon she runs away with her eyes sparkling.  Touga's demeanor during this exchange is very interesting.  He sighs at being interrupted in his thoughts, but when he turns around he shows no sign of irritation or impatience--he is utterly charming and polite.  And his action in kissing the girl can be seen as kindness--instead of rejecting her or putting her off, he fulfills her romantic daydreams.

This shows us several things.  One, Touga's arrogant as hell.  Two, he thinks that girls have nothing in their heads but romantic fluff.  And, three, he is able to think about what other people feel and desire (even if he's wrong); he doesn't act entirely for his own gratification.

I agree with you with him being arrogant as hell but I would say that he views women not so much as empty heads but as inferior needy things that require special handling for most part and playtoys for the rest.  I would also say that his need to keep up the princely demeanour is not entirely for his own sake and self image but also for his family.

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#9 | Back to Top04-17-2007 07:53:35 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: Character Analysis: Touga

rhyaniwyn wrote:

He definitely gets something out of "playing the prince", just as he gets something out of accepting and encouraging the affections of the girls at the school.  But those are not his only motives.  Touga's got potential, and I believe he makes genuine progress late in the series.

Agreed, which is a large part of the reason I love him.  He quietly grows more during the series than any other major character apart from Anthy and possibly Juri.  Of course, he still has a ways to go.

rhyaniwyn wrote:

He was obviously favored over Nanami as the male child, as well.  We can assume that his family operated with a very "traditional", strictly patriarchal order.  Touga therefore has fairly narrow-minded attitudes toward women.  This comes out in his behavior toward his entourage, toward Utena, and his comments to Nanami in "Nanami's Egg."  The behavior of the women and the fangirls around him doesn't teach him any better.  Utena, however, begins to.

Touga's behavior in Nanami's Egg gives us a fascinating glimpse at a side of him we don't usually see.  Touga manipulates by making people feel accepted, and he spends most of his life engaging in practiced, aimless manipulation; seeing him reject Nanami's "lesbianism" forcefully and even threateningly made me sit up straight.  Clearly there is more social prescriptivism in his attitudes than he lets on in public.  Not a Kerry voter.

I have two questions about Touga.

1) Does he condemn "girls who lay eggs" while porking Akio on the sly because he's a hypocrite, because he's closeted, because male homosexuality is different, because he's actually a heterosexual who has his own reasons for gaying it up, or for some other reason?

2) How self-aware is he?  Does he realize that he doesn't really care for his adorers?  That his behavior has caused Saionji and Nanami to become fixated on him?  That he's attracted to Utena primarily because she's the uncatchable koi?

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#10 | Back to Top04-18-2007 12:02:38 AM

ShatteredMirror
Yaoi Pet #1
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 8858

Re: Character Analysis: Touga

satyreyes wrote:

1) Does he condemn "girls who lay eggs" while porking Akio on the sly because he's a hypocrite, because he's closeted, because male homosexuality is different, because he's actually a heterosexual who has his own reasons for gaying it up, or for some other reason?

2) How self-aware is he?  Does he realize that he doesn't really care for his adorers?  That his behavior has caused Saionji and Nanami to become fixated on him?  That he's attracted to Utena primarily because she's the uncatchable koi?

I think he condemns the "girls who lay eggs" more because he knows it's an opinion that he's expected to have than anything else, honestly. If anything, I think he's probably acutely aware of the hypocrisy of condemning it in Nanami, but he knows it's expected of him so he says it. Also, you win an internet for knowing that pork is a verb.

I think he's got a certain degree of self-awareness that grows as the show progresses. I don't think he's ever fooled himself into thinking that he really cared about his adorers but I'm less sure if he knows what's going on with Saionji and Nanami.


Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source.

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#11 | Back to Top04-18-2007 01:55:08 AM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6018
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Re: Character Analysis: Touga

Touga and Utena

This is quite possibly the closest Touga has ever gotten to having a meaningful relationship with a girl. Everybody cheer! emot-dance

We all know that Touga’s chasing after Utena because she’s the one that got away, but I’d like to look a little more in depth at what he’s doing and why, and how it affects him. Touga treats Utena as a normal girl to begin with, disappears for a while, and then seems to fall in love with her—we can see that his relationship with her, and consequently his view of himself, progresses as time goes on. First we have to question why he was interested her in the first place. It’s never stated out loud that Touga approached her on his own, or that he did it because Akio told him she was important. I tend to take the middle road there; Touga is definitely interested in Utena, and he says so himself, but there’s also a chance that Akio’s been sticking his dirty little fingers into it as well. We find out just a few episodes later, after Saionji gets expelled, that Touga is in contact with Akio long before anyone else is, and that comparatively speaking, Touga comes on very strongly with Utena. His floozies would be the ones to approach him; we see that happen later in the series, and due to the nature of  Touga’s problems with affection and approval, it would be very rare for him to go seeking it. That would be an admission that someone’s affection had power over him. He’s far more used to, and comfortable with, having it thrown at him. This changes my view of the beginning of their relationship somewhat; I’m inclined to think that Touga’s desire for Utena happened to fall in conjunction with something Akio might have mentioned in a sidelong fashion—perhaps that Utena was well suited to Touga, but more likely that Utena was out of his league.

It’s in Touga’s treatment of Utena that we see he’s very set in his ways of thought about the fairer sex. Touga doesn’t realize that what he does is truly offputting to Utena, or else he’d stop doing it. You can say that pretty firmly, as he displays far better manipulative skills with Saionji and Nanami, and even his hordes of floozies, than he does with Utena. Here’s where the first big controversial viewpoint starts; people tend to see Touga in one of two ways, either that he’s in love with Utena and sucks at manipulating her, or that he’s a misogynist and can’t imagine that a woman wouldn’t fall for his charms. There is some evidence that he has feelings for Utena, of course; he says many times that she’s regal and lovely, and that he’s chivalrous or a feminist and that he wants them to be ‘good friends’. Indeed, he couldn’t have fallen into such a deep depression later if he had only felt that he’d been beaten. There have to be some feelings there, but I fall on the other side of the fence as far as the way he treats her goes. As far as I’m concerned, he’s a horrible, horrible misogynist, and he thinks that women are mostly inconsequential beings that exist to please him.

First, look at the way he treats his floozies. The best example of this is in episode 31.

Touga:  Hello? Oh, it's you.
Touga:  Yeah. No, that's not it. Yeah.
Touga:  Of course I wouldn't go out with that girl. Yeah.
Touga:  My cel phone was out for repairs. Really.
Touga:  Of course not...I wouldn't turn it off when you might call.
Touga:  You're the only one, baby.

Do I even have to analyze this? This is late in the series, long after Touga has supposedly fallen in love with Utena, and while he talks to the girl on the phone, he has another girl in his arms. If there’s any better evidence that Touga thinks of his floozies as toys, I’m not sure what it is. It’s not that he doesn’t understand that they have feelings, either. He’s well aware of that, or he wouldn’t lie to them. He knows that they’re thinking, feeling people, and he doesn’t care.

Touga:  Whether it was someone's plot or not,
Touga:  joining into it was her own responsibility.
Juri:  How cold.
Touga:  There can be times when the depths of one's feelings can lead them astray.
Touga:  The greater those feelings, the further they are led.

This excerpt from episode 11 refers specifically to Nanami, but it also illustrates a hallmark of Touga’s manipulative style. He prefers to take what’s already there and turn it to his ends, in comparison to Akio, who creates things to serve his ends, and Anthy, who manipulates by using her persona to trigger an emotional reaction in a person. Touga believes that it’s someone’s own responsibility to notice when they’re being used, and since the floozies don’t notice, they might as well be willing to be used.

This is how Utena ultimately wins a portion of Touga’s respect. She proves that she’s not willing to be used, not because she notices what he’s doing, but because she doesn’t fall for his charm in the first place. To Touga, his charm is infallible—Juri is a lesbian, Anthy is the Rose Bride, and everyone else that he wants is his. I’m inclined to give him a bit of charity on this one; there’s very little way he could have noticed that there are girls out there that don’t fall for his charms, since he’s constantly surrounded by the ones that do. He has no reason to believe that it won’t work on every girl that he sees, and that it doesn’t work on Utena is unthinkable. So, of course, he keeps trying in the same way, much the same way you’ll push the button on your computer a few times if it doesn’t start up at first.

It’s not until he finds out about Utena’s Prince that he really starts to get to her, but all that does is set him up for a fall later on when he loses both Utena’s submission and the Rose Bride. And fall he does, hard. Instead of writing this off as the loss of his seiyuu, Takehito Koyasu, I analyze it as a part of his character, which I understand is somewhat unpopular. Too bad. I like to try to keep the fourth wall from breaking, as I feel the creators would have done something other than send Touga into a depression if they thought that was out of place for his character. Touga would not take failure well, especially not with something important at stake. His desire for Utena deepens the depression exponentially, as does the fear of rejection that I detailed in my first post. As far as Touga’s concerned, he’s lost it all in one fell stroke—his ambitions, his plans, the woman who was almost in his grasp, and the promise of love that means more than just the floozies he plays off each other. It’s no wonder that he becomes that depressed over it; everything that means anything to him is in ruins.

When he comes back, it’s obvious that his confidence has been shaken. Surprisingly, this serves him well with Utena. We see him approach her more honestly, and ask things of her that the playboy of the first arc would never ask. How do we know it's honesty?

http://ohtori.nu/forumstuff/UT01.jpg

Body language. Touga’s body language is so uniformly arrogant and seductive (in his toned-down-for-young-girls way) that a pose like this is foreign to him. His eyes are closed, a common way to shut out unwanted stimuli when thinking, and his hand is pressed to his forehead in a reinforcement. Even worse, his nails are digging into his scalp; not only is he urging his brain on, but he’d tear the thoughts right out of it if he could. This could be deception, but Touga would never deceive someone with a show of his own inadequacy. And when he gets the chance, of course, he resumes showing off by taking Utena riding. Perhaps a part of that is because he’s aware that he displayed inadequacy before and is trying to erase it with competence. Unfortunately, he shows off a little too much, causing Utena to fall from the horse.

His lack of confidence in what he does is making him careful; he appears to see now that Utena is not impressed by him, and he is trying to rectify the situation in what he judges (rightly) to be the only way possible-- honesty. However, his need to be superior, something that shows through most often when he deals with Saionji, trips him up. He takes this failure well compared to the last one. Perhaps he realizes it’s his own fault. I’m inclined to think so, as Touga doesn’t strike me as the type to belabor his own failures when he understands why he failed. An understanding of failure is the key to succeeding later. Time is growing short for Touga’s chances with Utena, however, and he evidently knows it.

Touga:  It's true. I love you.
Touga:  From my heart, I treasure you.
Touga:  Your nobility and beauty shine on many.
Touga:  And even if I'm not worthy of you, please, be with me for at least this instant.
Touga:  Just that will do.
Touga:  If I can just carve the memory of this night, the two of us together, within me,
Touga:  that will be enough. Will you permit me that much?

Pretty as this speech sounds, it’s actually one of the reasons I doubt the depth of Touga’s feelings. I have no doubt that he means every word of it, but the character up until now has been starved for real affection and meaningful interaction with people he considers equals (or he has starved himself—see Nanami and Saionji), and Utena approaches that equality and depth of interaction. That, combined with the fact that she’s a good person, someone with noble goals and ideals, makes me think that Touga is mistaking his admiration and desire to be admired for love. There are feelings there, of course. Touga keeps his arms crossed over his chest when he asks about Akio, protecting his heart in a symbolic sense.

http://ohtori.nu/forumstuff/UT02.jpg

It’s just that previous evidence suggests that it’s not love. Subsequent events suggest the same; if you love someone, you accept their decision as to whether they’re going to date you or not. Utena decided she wouldn’t, and Touga has not accepted that, going so far as to attempt to force her to date him if he wins their final duel. He still shows very little consideration for what she wants, only wanting to keep her with him.

It’s very likely that Touga has no idea of his true feelings for Utena, which I believe are somewhere between admiration, respect, and deep affection. Out of all the Duellists, he’s the most attached to her, perhaps the most out of any character in the show. I won’t make a judgement as to whether she changed him the most, but certainly the changes have been dramatic. Touga has opened himself up to failure and honesty, and learned to treat the people around him with a measure of respect.

Since his interactions with the other characters are influenced by his interaction with Utena, I’ll discuss other changes along with the characters I think they’re most related to.


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#12 | Back to Top04-18-2007 07:07:28 AM

Tamago
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From: Minami Goushuu
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Re: Character Analysis: Touga

Didn't Touga first show interest in Utena as he watched her defeat Saionji the first time with her dreaded broken sword technique?

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#13 | Back to Top04-18-2007 07:23:14 AM

rhyaniwyn
Myth is my Bitch
From: Tallahassee, FL
Registered: 11-09-2006
Posts: 684
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Re: Character Analysis: Touga

I agree with you, except I think that misogynist is a bit strong.  Touga's smart, but his innate desire for approval and his indoctrination have planted the strong notion in him that women are shallow and inferior to men.  He doesn't hate women and his prejudices tend to take him more in the direction of treating girls like pets.  This isn't good, but it could be worse.

Nanami's Egg is very relevant.  Does Touga realize he's being hypocritical?  I question that--there's a long-standing "morality" that it's perfectly normal, acceptable, and even encouraged for men to go out and "sow their wild oats."  Women who do so are whores and will always be whores, useful as sexual objects, but not worthy of respect.  Women who remain virgins until their marriage to someone their family chooses are good girls who are doing their duty.  This wasn't, and still isn't in many cultures, viewed as hypocritical at all.  This helps explain Touga's lack of guilt for his behavior toward his fans; it's something I think he will shake.  (Note that at the end, he is again engaging in 2nd favorite sport with his best friend, and the 3 of them are having a quiet tea together.  Where are the legions of fans?  My guess?  Dwindling as Touga realizes the error of his attitudes.)

And, true to his personality, Touga absorbs many of Akio's morals.  We can't discount how much Akio influenced Touga.  And he wouldn't have disabused Touga of his shallow notions on the female of the species, either.  Touga and Akio really might never have slept together; I think that would depend on cultural prohibitions.  In some cultures, notably ancient Greece, it was common and acceptable for men to have homosexual relationships with younger men.

I certainly agree that Touga is likely mistaking this entirely unique experience with Utena as love, when it is really just "revolution", admiration, and respect.  Could he love Utena?  Sure, I think he could, though I don't think he does.  Ultimately they wouldn't be compatible, either.


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#14 | Back to Top04-18-2007 12:25:40 PM

Frau Eva
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Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 803

Re: Character Analysis: Touga

satyreyes wrote:

Touga's behavior in Nanami's Egg gives us a fascinating glimpse at a side of him we don't usually see.  Touga manipulates by making people feel accepted, and he spends most of his life engaging in practiced, aimless manipulation; seeing him reject Nanami's "lesbianism" forcefully and even threateningly made me sit up straight.  Clearly there is more social prescriptivism in his attitudes than he lets on in public.  Not a Kerry voter.

I have two questions about Touga.

1) Does he condemn "girls who lay eggs" while porking Akio on the sly because he's a hypocrite, because he's closeted, because male homosexuality is different, because he's actually a heterosexual who has his own reasons for gaying it up, or for some other reason?

2) How self-aware is he?  Does he realize that he doesn't really care for his adorers?  That his behavior has caused Saionji and Nanami to become fixated on him?  That he's attracted to Utena primarily because she's the uncatchable koi?

One thing to take into consideration is that lesbianism is more frowned upon in Japan than male homosexuality. I have no idea why, but one of my teacher's from Japan is very certain, especially since lesbians hung out at her apartment a lot in college. She was actually completely shocked when we told her it was the opposite here.

But that being said, I think I agree that he knows its what he's supposed to think about homosexuality, and he won't be caught dead supporting something like that in his parents' house. What he privately thinks and does is a whole other matter, but someone like Nanami isn't deserving enough to be privy to something like that.

Last edited by Frau Eva (04-18-2007 12:26:12 PM)


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#15 | Back to Top04-18-2007 03:11:23 PM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6018
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Re: Character Analysis: Touga

Tamago wrote:

Didn't Touga first show interest in Utena as he watched her defeat Saionji the first time with her dreaded broken sword technique?

Yes, he certainly did. It's a very tough call to make on whether he approached her on the strength of his interest alone or not. He could have been just that interested; then again, with all of those girls throwing themselves at him, it seems to me that Touga would forget his interests quickly. It could have been reinforced by her rose signet, but then again, if she's going to be in contact with him through the duels anyway, why should he make the approach? That's one of those little grey areas where you can't really determine what went on or why because it's such a small difference in personality.

rhyaniwyn wrote:

I agree with you, except I think that misogynist is a bit strong.  Touga's smart, but his innate desire for approval and his indoctrination have planted the strong notion in him that women are shallow and inferior to men.  He doesn't hate women and his prejudices tend to take him more in the direction of treating girls like pets.  This isn't good, but it could be worse.

I haven't really touched on the other side of the coin of his interest-- contempt. I think this figures heavily into Touga's treatment of women, his words in Nanami's Egg, and his treatment of Saionji. Short version is that when you easily beat someone at something, over and over, you feel contempt for them because they are so much less than you are. You are superior to them. Touga shows his contempt for people in several different ways, and I quoted the one of the telling scenes up there, where he's talking on the phone to one girl while he's got another in his arms. When he says 'you're the only one', he looks at the girl he's with, like he's talking to her, but the girl on the phone believes he's talking to her. It takes a lot of contempt for people to treat them that coldly.

Misogynist is a bit strong a word, yes, and in the end not an accurate one, but there is something to justify it there. If it's not true misogyny, at the very least I think he does dislike women in general because they're so very simple, shallow, and easy to play with. When I get to this in-depth, when I deal with Nanami and Saionji, I'll try to explain this with some backing from the facts.

rhyaniwyn wrote:

Nanami's Egg is very relevant.  Does Touga realize he's being hypocritical?  I question that--there's a long-standing "morality" that it's perfectly normal, acceptable, and even encouraged for men to go out and "sow their wild oats."  Women who do so are whores and will always be whores, useful as sexual objects, but not worthy of respect.  Women who remain virgins until their marriage to someone their family chooses are good girls who are doing their duty.  This wasn't, and still isn't in many cultures, viewed as hypocritical at all.  This helps explain Touga's lack of guilt for his behavior toward his fans; it's something I think he will shake.  (Note that at the end, he is again engaging in 2nd favorite sport with his best friend, and the 3 of them are having a quiet tea together.  Where are the legions of fans?  My guess?  Dwindling as Touga realizes the error of his attitudes.)

I have a different take on this altogether as far as Touga's motivations go. I think he is aware that he's being hypocritical. I've noticed that people tend to take it as guilt or embarrassment on his part driving him to say that to Nanami, or they say it's true distaste for the idea of homosexuality and that he hates what he's doing with Akio. I don't agree with either of them, and I think what you've said has some bearing on his reasons.

I also think he'll eventually let go of his floozies, but maybe not altogether. He's a sensualist, you can see it by his bed. He'll want sex. After Utena, perhaps he'll also like the girls he's getting it from, although they may not be exactly what you'd call girlfriends.

rhyaniwyn wrote:

And, true to his personality, Touga absorbs many of Akio's morals.  We can't discount how much Akio influenced Touga.  And he wouldn't have disabused Touga of his shallow notions on the female of the species, either.  Touga and Akio really might never have slept together; I think that would depend on cultural prohibitions.  In some cultures, notably ancient Greece, it was common and acceptable for men to have homosexual relationships with younger men.

I'm going to argue both of those points pretty fiercely when the time comes. Brace yourself, baby. emot-wink

rhyaniwyn wrote:

I certainly agree that Touga is likely mistaking this entirely unique experience with Utena as love, when it is really just "revolution", admiration, and respect.  Could he love Utena?  Sure, I think he could, though I don't think he does.  Ultimately they wouldn't be compatible, either.

He certainly could love her. And no, they're totally not compatible. Utena isn't half the sensualist he is-- he'll want to stay in bed and fuck all day, where she'll want to get up an accomplish things and it'll hurt his poor little ego. emot-biggrin Kidding... mostly. But no, they're really not compatible. He'd go over her head too much, he'd be upset when she didn't understand things that he valued, and think it a failure of himself-- that same failure to be lovable. She'd be upset when he fell back into the habit of treating her like a fluffle-headed princess and she'd get angry with him. I think in the end a relationship would hurt him worse than it hurt her, but not by very damn much.


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#16 | Back to Top04-18-2007 03:36:52 PM

rhyaniwyn
Myth is my Bitch
From: Tallahassee, FL
Registered: 11-09-2006
Posts: 684
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Re: Character Analysis: Touga

I guess it is contempt, :-( but I basically excuse it due to the fact that I think it's based on an opinion he was taught.  I'd never do that with a real person--but I cite Touga's age and his evident progress in the series and let him go on that score.  What I forgot to factor in is what you pointed out: Touga's own experiences with how easy it is to manipulate his fangirls would probably lead to some very real, personal feelings of contempt for girls in general.  And could explain Touga's complete lack of interest in Anthy as a conquest.  (I think he really believes that "no will of her own" stuff when he wins Anthy early in the series.  Anthy'd be less interesting than his fangirls if that were the case.)

I have what I think is an unpopular take on Touga and Utena, which I'm trying to keep out of this because I'm planning a thread with a long, focused analysis of it.  But it's hard!  So right now I'm just leaving it at 'they aren't compatible'. school-sherlock


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#17 | Back to Top04-18-2007 03:42:41 PM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6018
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Re: Character Analysis: Touga

rhyaniwyn wrote:

I guess it is contempt, :-( but I basically excuse it due to the fact that I think it's based on an opinion he was taught.  I'd never do that with a real person--but I cite Touga's age and his evident progress in the series and let him go on that score.  What I forgot to factor in is what you pointed out: Touga's own experiences with how easy it is to manipulate his fangirls would probably lead to some very real, personal feelings of contempt for girls in general.  And could explain Touga's complete lack of interest in Anthy as a conquest.  (I think he really believes that "no will of her own" stuff when he wins Anthy early in the series.  Anthy'd be less interesting than his fangirls if that were the case.)

I have what I think is an unpopular take on Touga and Utena, which I'm trying to keep out of this because I'm planning a thread with a long, focused analysis of it.  But it's hard!  So right now I'm just leaving it at 'they aren't compatible'. school-sherlock

If you have an idea for a thread for this view, go ahead and post it, but it would be nice if you expand on it a little here too. I want to focus on Touga in this thread, so I'm going relationship by relationship in it, but if you have relevant analysis, I hope to see it one way or another. emot-biggrin


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#18 | Back to Top04-18-2007 03:43:33 PM

SexingTouga24/7/365
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Registered: 12-10-2006
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Re: Character Analysis: Touga

I love... it  is nice to see some possible reasons why Touga came to be how he came to be....but do you think that he would have really fuck his sister if she went along with it emot-confused he is so sexy and yet so fucked up.....ooooohhhhh touga come here baby school-devil


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#19 | Back to Top04-18-2007 05:23:23 PM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
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Re: Character Analysis: Touga

I would have to admit that I never considered any deeper reason for Touga to keep telling Nanami that he only gets along with Nanami because she doesn't lay eggs (after noticing that she was holding/hiding an egg in her hands) then for the fact that having having a little sister who is obsessive over him it can really be annoying when he has no intention of returning her affections that way so he tells her things like that hoping she might stop thinking he was so wonderful and maybe stop bugging him with her 'onii-sama' stuff that I am sure, secretly gets his goat.

Last edited by Tamago (04-18-2007 05:29:18 PM)

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#20 | Back to Top04-18-2007 07:14:54 PM

Ragnarok
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From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4472
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Re: Character Analysis: Touga

Yasha wrote:

Tamago wrote:

Didn't Touga first show interest in Utena as he watched her defeat Saionji the first time with her dreaded broken sword technique?

Yes, he certainly did. It's a very tough call to make on whether he approached her on the strength of his interest alone or not. He could have been just that interested; then again, with all of those girls throwing themselves at him, it seems to me that Touga would forget his interests quickly. It could have been reinforced by her rose signet, but then again, if she's going to be in contact with him through the duels anyway, why should he make the approach? That's one of those little grey areas where you can't really determine what went on or why because it's such a small difference in personality.

I've always assumed a large part of Touga's interest in Utena is because she's the current champion. Ultimately Touga wants power and from the moment Utena beats Saionji she's the one he has to beat in order to get it. His approaching her has got to be at least in part to get a feel for her as an opponent in the duels. And from their first exchange Utena breaks all the rules that Touga's used to dealing with, which only further interests him.

Regarding Touga in love:

I'm pretty much just repeating what's been said, but I think a lot of it has to do with Touga's inexperience with the emotion. Lots of people like to say "When you're in love you just know it," and similar lines. The fact is, it's very easy to mistake love with infatuation, lust and any number of different 'selfish' attractions. Which is what Touga's doing here. He thinks he's in love with her, completely. Not that he wants to be, which is further 'proof' for him. In a way Touga is looking at Utena the way his floozies look at him, shaping her in his mind to be the perfect match for him regardless of what reality might say about it. Touga believes that all his admirers are in love with him (how could they not be?) so if he acts around Utena the way they act around him; it must be the real thing. I'd like to think that Touga eventually realizes what his feelings really were at the time... assuming he remembers anything about it at all.

About Touga and The Rules:

Just noting that someone who knows what the rules are and follows them exactly is also the sort of person who knows about the loopholes and what the rules don't cover.

That's it for me, yay for Touga analysis!

[edit] - Nanami's Egg! Honestly I enjoy reading his actions in this episode as knowing about the egg and screwing with Nanami's head. Just for the hell of it. Guy's gotta relax somehow, right?

Last edited by Ragnarok (04-18-2007 07:17:51 PM)


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#21 | Back to Top04-19-2007 11:38:32 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8731
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Re: Character Analysis: Touga

Yasha wrote:

I think this figures heavily into Touga's treatment of women, his words in Nanami's Egg, and his treatment of Saionji. Short version is that when you easily beat someone at something, over and over, you feel contempt for them because they are so much less than you are. You are superior to them. Touga shows his contempt for people in several different ways, and I quoted the one of the telling scenes up there, where he's talking on the phone to one girl while he's got another in his arms.

I think Touga was his own worst enemy when it comes to contempt for women. He's the one feeding the chain of events that would lead someone to look down on women. He beats them over and over because that's what he has to do to get his affection, but at the same time, it's glaringly obvious his affection is what they're after. I can't help but wonder if deep, deep down, he recognizes that need. He looks down on them for their desperation and desire for affection and approval, but...then how should he feel about his? It's tricky to say really, since so much is buried past recognition for him. I know we're not at Saionji yet, but I'd also venture to say the actions that fueled Touga's contempt for women have, viewed from the sidelines, had a similar influence on Saionji. emot-frown

Ragnarok wrote:

Just noting that someone who knows what the rules are and follows them exactly is also the sort of person who knows about the loopholes and what the rules don't cover.

I think if Touga ever seriously thought he could outmaneuver Akio, it would have been in terms of finding the loophole in the set of rules Akio writes, based on the relatively correct assumption Akio plays by his rules. (Given he writes them.) I wonder if that was not part of the calculation when he dueled Utena last.

As for his being one to follow rules...I definitely agree he is, but I can't help but assume, though I can't think of any proof in the series, that he's only the type to follow rules that make sense to him. I tend to think he would be perfectly willing to skip out on rules he found absurd and inconvenient enough, so long as he knew without a doubt he'd get away with it. And he would know. He might run a red light at 3am, but only if he happens to know there's no automated monitoring at that light. (It's an example dammit.) Like...I can't see him stealing a bottle of wine from a store. But there are plenty of laws in place meant to protect people in business deals, and I trust he would happily break them, because he'd feel if you can't handle yourself in a negotiation, you're going to get screwed, and no cute little law should be saving you.


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
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#22 | Back to Top05-01-2007 07:32:34 AM

Stormcrow
Magical Flying Moron
From: Los Angeles
Registered: 04-24-2007
Posts: 5971
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Re: Character Analysis: Touga

Going through this forum is like mining for gold...I JUST found this thread.

Firstly, I agree that Touga is one of the more developped characters in the show, but his development is hard to pin down.  I'm mostly in agreement with Yasha here, and I think Gio raises an excellent point about the possibility of self-contempt in Touga.  My own personal impression is that Touga's parents were overly controlling in an extreme way.  Without goin into detail about the whole will to power thing, in my own experience the most basic psychological need is the need for control.  When parents (or other authority figures) are too controlling, this need becomes a fixation.  Touga's parents raised him to follow the rules, often becuase they don't make sense, and they were probably pretty obvious in their manipulations of people.  I'd say that until he met Utena, it never occured to Touga that any other relationship than master/slave was actually possible.

Affection, however, is somewhat biological and instinctive, as is the need for it.  More on that in relation to Saionji in particular, but in relation to the fangirls, I think that Touga does actually have honest affection for them.  Respect is another matter entirely.  I also question whether Touga fundamentally respects himself.  As narcissistic as he is, I don't see any evidence of any thorough self-analysis prior to the Black Rose arc.  I was a little disappointed to hear about the Seiyuu business, I still interpret that as the collapse of Touga's mental construct.  One thing to consider in Touga's depression is that he had probably never failed before at anything.  He probably never realized that it was a real possibility.

I think this is summed up by Touga's statement about Utena that she "shakes his morals".  In fact, his interaction with her has completely destroyed his world view.  Unfortunately, Touga didn't have the self-confidence to forge out on his own yet, and soon went back to Akio and the comfort of a relationship with well-defined dominance roles.  But he is still drawn to Utena, in whom he sees the hope of the "revolution" he desperately desires.  More on this in the Saionji section, but I will say that Saionji and Touga's relationship is the most interesting to me in the show.

So I guess I actually see Touga as a rather pathetic character.  I haven't finished rewatching the show yet, and I don't remember his epilogue with Saionji and Nanami clearly, but I'd like to think that he is able to show a little vulnerability at last and begin to develop more balanced relationships with them.

Oh, and on the subject of "Nanami's egg"  I see Touga as just aping his parents again.  Can't you just imagine them telling him that marriage was a sacred institution while carrying on affairs, or telling him that stealing is wrong while burying their money in off-shore tax shelters?  I'll bet they were Republicans too.emot-wink


"The devil want me as is, but god he want more."
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#23 | Back to Top05-01-2007 01:01:37 PM

SexingTouga24/7/365
is on a BOAT!
Registered: 12-10-2006
Posts: 2267

Re: Character Analysis: Touga

Stormcrow wrote:

Oh, and on the subject of "Nanami's egg"  I see Touga as just aping his parents again.  Can't you just imagine them telling him that marriage was a sacred institution while carrying on affairs, or telling him that stealing is wrong while burying their money in off-shore tax shelters?  I'll bet they were Republicans too.emot-wink

hahahahhahahha...that is great... so he was born learning how talk out of the side of his mouth... emot-wink he could put that mouth to much better use school-devil


"If all the world is a stage and all the people players"...then I demand a less shitty part or the ability to get off of the stage. Slowly my sanity slides, slipping, swirling, spiraling...Save Me I need Sleep...Shattering Soon. school-devil "RukaxTouga equals the Fourth of July" MY patriotic celebration...FUCK ME TOUGA AND RUKA NOW!! etc-wankgirl etc-wankdude

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#24 | Back to Top05-01-2007 08:30:26 PM

Stormcrow
Magical Flying Moron
From: Los Angeles
Registered: 04-24-2007
Posts: 5971
Website

Re: Character Analysis: Touga

SexingTouga24/7/365 wrote:

Stormcrow wrote:

Oh, and on the subject of "Nanami's egg"  I see Touga as just aping his parents again.  Can't you just imagine them telling him that marriage was a sacred institution while carrying on affairs, or telling him that stealing is wrong while burying their money in off-shore tax shelters?  I'll bet they were Republicans too.emot-wink

hahahahhahahha...that is great... so he was born learning how talk out of the side of his mouth... emot-wink he could put that mouth to much better use school-devil

hmmm....is Touga's appeal that he could perhaps be redeemed?  Or is it just that hair?


"The devil want me as is, but god he want more."
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#25 | Back to Top05-01-2007 10:14:46 PM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6018
Website

Re: Character Analysis: Touga

Strictly an opinion post, he appeals to me because he's very much like I am. Someday I'm going to have to write out my philosophy on romance and relationships, and I promise, it's not going to be pretty.

There is going to be incoming analysis on this topic as soon as I can put together coherent thoughts. Also, I finished a fanfic that I'm not embarrassed to post-- maybe later on tonight it will get its own thread.


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