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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#26 | Back to Top03-07-2007 12:41:23 PM

A Day Without Me
Still Drunk in the Morning?
From: in the tulip garden!
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 1584

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

Lady Nilamarthiel wrote:

I. Hate. TsuzukixHisoka from Yami no Matsuei. Why? BECAUSE TSUZUKI IS OVER 100 YEARS OLD OMG. And Hisoka is, like, 16 or 17 at that time. Also, Hisoka says that he thinks of Tsuzuki as FAMILY.

Man, someone else out there agrees that HisokaxTsuzuki isn't a good pairing? Man, I thought I was the only one. I also felt there wasn't really all that much chemistry between the two in the canon, anyway, although I felt like the reader/viewer was supposed to see that there was. I actually think HijirixTsuzuki works better, honestly.

And its nice to see there are other people out there who dislike HarryxDraco. Actually, I think I could like it if the vast majority of the fanfics of it didn't royally suck. I read one once that was extremely good, and I've read a few that were ok, but for the most part its just fangirl/boy word vomit.

I think I, for the most part, dislike pairings that involve enemies getting together - especially at the sacrifice of a friend who likes the character in question. I'm such a sap for the best-friend-with-crush-on-main-character type.

Haha, this made me think of another pairing I dislike - ShizumaxNagisa (Strawberry Panic). Nagisa should've gotten together with Tamao in the end emot-mad


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My HMO might just pick up the tab. (Yup)
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#27 | Back to Top03-07-2007 05:50:06 PM

Raven Nightshade
Someday Shiner
From: Louisiana
Registered: 12-17-2006
Posts: 2916

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

A Day Without Me wrote:

Lady Nilamarthiel wrote:

I. Hate. TsuzukixHisoka from Yami no Matsuei. Why? BECAUSE TSUZUKI IS OVER 100 YEARS OLD OMG. And Hisoka is, like, 16 or 17 at that time. Also, Hisoka says that he thinks of Tsuzuki as FAMILY.

Man, someone else out there agrees that HisokaxTsuzuki isn't a good pairing? Man, I thought I was the only one. I also felt there wasn't really all that much chemistry between the two in the canon, anyway, although I felt like the reader/viewer was supposed to see that there was. I actually think HijirixTsuzuki works better, honestly.

I don't care who they pair up with. They're all just warming up for me, anyway. etc-wankgirl

YamPuff wrote:

Mamoru x Michiro and Usagi x Haruka from sailor Moon. What is up with that anyway? Haruka likes Usagi in the way you like a kitten, and NOT IN 'THAT' WAY. Michiru and Mamoru would make a good couple possibly, but in a boring way.

I like Usagi x Seiya as friends, maybe boyfriend-girlfriend but not as lovers. It just wouldn't last, they're both too immature and too much like each other.

Those could be blamed on the anti-Mamoru movement. I recognize his uselessness, but there is no Uten--I mean, Chibi-Usa without him.

Last edited by Raven Nightshade (03-07-2007 06:01:42 PM)


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#28 | Back to Top03-07-2007 06:47:40 PM

A Day Without Me
Still Drunk in the Morning?
From: in the tulip garden!
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 1584

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

Raven Nightshade wrote:

YamPuff wrote:

I like Usagi x Seiya as friends, maybe boyfriend-girlfriend but not as lovers. It just wouldn't last, they're both too immature and too much like each other.

Those could be blamed on the anti-Mamoru movement. I recognize his uselessness, but there is no Uten--I mean, Chibi-Usa without him.

Ugh. Mamoru. He's just so... plain. I didn't like him much in the first season, either, but at least there was tension there between the two - they kinda sucked anything interesting out of him after that emot-frown Not that he was interesting at all to begin with.

I actually kind of like Seiya x Usagi - sure, they're both kind of immature, but they're both supposed to be 16 years old - immature 16 year olds are kind of common. And Seiya isn't dead dull like Mamoru is.


"I'm bringing paxil back. (Yup)
My HMO might just pick up the tab. (Yup)
I got the tremors and I need a nap. (Yup)
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#29 | Back to Top03-08-2007 02:16:32 AM

Yams
Nest Boxer
From: Crystal Millenium
Registered: 02-13-2007
Posts: 963

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

I am one of the few people out there who like Mamoru x Usagi. I mean, his dullness balances her hyperness. He calms her down, she livens him up a bit. Besides, Seiya, Yaten and Taiki make a great three-some. Or, Seiya x Kakyuu and Taiki x Yaten. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. school-devilschool-devilschool-devilschool-devil


And I don't like Mamoru x Ami!! It must not be! emot-gonkemot-gonkemot-gonk They would kill each other with dullness.


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#30 | Back to Top03-08-2007 05:38:42 AM

Frosty
Everyone's Best Friend
From: United States
Registered: 11-16-2006
Posts: 1269
Website

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

Hina the Prince wrote:

In SKU, I hate Utena being shipped to anyone who isn't Anthy.

Seconded, Utena X Anthy is the only ship I sail! etc-love

I don't like Utena paired with Touga, or Juri, or Akio (ff.net) or Miki, or Chuchu, or Nanami (doujinshi) or even when she's with Anthy, but cheats on her with Nanami (Alan Harnum). Now, Anthy can be paired with practically anyone, and it can be realistic and not get on my nerves, but I do like the stories best when Utena arrives at the end!

  emot-confused  ____I don't recognize the other pairings of other couples everyone dislikes____ emot-confused

So back to why Harry/Draco is a no-no! It's because, even if Harry said, "I am becoming obsessed with Draco." Or something...I know from personal experience that you can hate someone so much, it takes over as the most powerful emotion, even replacing that of love, and that you CAN really be that obsessed and not want to screw the person in question. In my humble opinion, Harry simply HATES Draco in this manner. And Draco, well, he's just a stupid bully. Let me tell you what, I got picked on as a child, and I would never (given the opportunity) sleep with any of my bullies. I don't think Harry would either. And as for the bully aspect, I don't think there would ever be anything romantic ever conceivable, probably rape, and in that case, we would need some sign that Draco was slightly attracted to boys (there is NONE) and these books are written for an audience of children (ok some olders read to, but began as a child story) so Harry/Draco is definitely non-canon...only in my very humble opinion! emot-keke

I wanted H/H, so shoot me!  emot-mad


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#31 | Back to Top03-08-2007 05:52:43 AM

Hina the Prince
Friend, Perhaps
From: Israel
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 320

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

Frosty wrote:

Seconded, Utena X Anthy is the only ship I sail! etc-love

etc-loveetc-love~!

I don't like Utena paired with Touga, or Juri, or Akio (ff.net) or Miki, or Chuchu

OH GOD I REMEMBER THAT DOUJIN -dies a little more inside-

or even when she's with Anthy, but cheats on her with Nanami (Alan Harnum).

Now I know to never-ever read that. Thanks!

Now, Anthy can be paired with practically anyone, and it can be realistic

Can it? o.o With the exception of Utena [obviously], Miki [who doesn't know her and uses her as a replacement for Kozue] and Akio [...kinda], everyone in Ohtori hates her.

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#32 | Back to Top03-08-2007 08:47:41 AM

Blade
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
From: Darkest Canada
Registered: 12-01-2006
Posts: 181
Website

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

I think a good story can make almost any relationship work, if the author is willing to put in the work (sometimes quite a lot) to make it plausible.  It is very rarely the case they are, alas.

That being said, I've never seen any story or projected story where a Shiori/Juri coupling made a lick of sense, and therefore it almost automatically gets a negative reaction from me - it smacks of what the fan wants or just considers some kind of default, shoehorned in without any thought.

...that's for the TV series versions, of course. Movie Shiori can molest Juri all she wants. etc-love

I'm also pretty automatically suspicious of any story that's Ranma/Anybody-but-Akane (Ranma 1/2), even though I've done some of those myself, if only because that's such a reliable codeword for "Akane-bashing" in fanfiction these days. Also, once again, virtually nobody does the work to make it plausible (alternate history fics excepted, obviously).

Canonically, I hate Ryouga/Akari (also Ranma 1/2), because Akari is shallow and boring.

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#33 | Back to Top03-08-2007 12:47:08 PM

Frosty
Everyone's Best Friend
From: United States
Registered: 11-16-2006
Posts: 1269
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Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

Hina the Prince wrote:

Frosty wrote:

Or even when Utena's with Anthy, but cheats on her with Nanami (Alan Harnum).

Now I know to never-ever read that. Thanks!

The story, I was speaking of is called Beneath the Skin: http://www.thekeep.org/~harnums/fanfic/utena/skin.txt

Oh no no! Don't misunderstand me, Beneath the Skin, was AMAZING! Don't be offended by the fact that Utena sleeps with Nanami, the story is written so well. It is an after-series piece, Utena is actually living with Anthy, when Nanami stops in to pay a visit. Anthy, feeling slight animosity, quickly leaves to go grocery shopping. Utena & Nanami sleep together, but it's written in a way that doesn't seem as if she's betrayed Anthy. I cannot stress how WELL-WRITTEN this story is. I would definitely check it out. It was written by Alan Harnum.

Alan Harnum was like the God of Utena fanfiction for several years until suddenly, sadly, and at a great loss to the SKU community - he developed a life, or other interests that he chose to peruse...and stopped writing SKU fanfiction. He wrote what is considered, unchallenged by mostly any SKU fans the ultimate SKU fanfiction, Jaquemart...which unfortunately, remains, and will probably forever, remain unfinished.

THAT story has a realistic portrayal of Utena/Anthy relationship, as it begins, U/A have been living together for 7 years as....Roommates. When we had the large discussion about whether or not U/A were a cannon couple or not, an interesting point was brought to the table...that it was not Utena, but Anthy, that would most likely need to be the aggressor if a relationship were to develop.

(...SPOILER FOR JAQUEMART...)

Near the end of the story, someone (I think Touga) asks Anthy about the nature of hers & Utena's relationship. And Anthy replies (paraphrased) that because she (Anthy) was so reserved and wanted to pretend that their live was normal - it WAS exactly that. And that, NO, they were not lovers. But it was because Anthy had kept her feelings on reserve for this pretence of being normal.

(END SPOILER)

If you want a story that paints Utena X Anthy, post-series, as a real-life couple, like they are married...each one true to character, Utena begins in a hospital, and Anthy finds her... you MUST read my second favorite (1st is Jaquemart) fanfiction story ever, which is Archimage. It too is unfinished, but they update every few YEARS. Ahahaha! Anyway - this is a must read. Along with ALL of Alan Harnum's fanfiction.

You'll find ARCHIMAGE here: http://www.broomstick.org/utena/archimage.html


Just remember that the things you put into your head are there forever, he said. You might want to think about that. / You forget some things, don't you? / Yes. You forget what you want to remember and you remember what you want to forget.

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#34 | Back to Top03-08-2007 01:17:27 PM

Hina the Prince
Friend, Perhaps
From: Israel
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 320

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

I don't care how well it's written, Utena/Nanami is one of the biggest no's in The Book of No's. Just... ewwww.

I tried to read Jaquemart, but the I couldn't stand the script-style writing for too long. -shrug- Archimage will forever remain my #1 fanfic for any genre ever not only because the characterization and plot, but also the gorgeous writing and symbolism. etc-love

And Anthy holding back her feelings for Utena so they can live normally? In character? That seems highly unlikely to me. Post-series Anthy, IMO, will bear some resemblance her movie counterpart - she will be more open about her sexuality and, well, everything. She doesn't have Onii-sama to hold her back now and I don't think Utena would reject her if Anthy put the moves on her because they've been pretty gay since the beginning of the series. Utena is just a wee bit in denial, but her post-series self probably won't be as naive and innocent.

Last edited by Hina the Prince (03-08-2007 01:20:28 PM)

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#35 | Back to Top03-08-2007 02:12:12 PM

Blade
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
From: Darkest Canada
Registered: 12-01-2006
Posts: 181
Website

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

Hina the Prince wrote:

Post-series Anthy, IMO, will bear some resemblance her movie counterpart - she will be more open about her sexuality and, well, everything. She doesn't have Onii-sama to hold her back now

Holding back the usual arguments about Utena...

umm...

Did you actually just say that Akio's influence is holding back Anthy from being open about her sexuality?  emot-confused

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#36 | Back to Top03-08-2007 06:56:58 PM

Frosty
Everyone's Best Friend
From: United States
Registered: 11-16-2006
Posts: 1269
Website

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

Hina the Prince wrote:

I don't care how well it's written, Utena/Nanami is one of the biggest no's in The Book of No's. Just... ewwww.

Haha! Fair enough. When I saw it in doujinshi, I gagged. I did not LIKE Utena cheating on Anthy, in the story either, HOWEVER it's one of the best Nanami POV stories ever (think Harnum was big on Nanami)...BECAUSE it gives you one of the best window peeks into Utena & Anthy's relationship from an outside POV.

(SPOILERS FOR ALAN HARNUM'S FANFICTION ABOUND)

I'll summarize the story, since it sounds like you won't be reading it, and that would make you actually miss out on one of the best U/A moments in the history of fanfiction: Nanami goes meets with Miki, gets a gift from Mitsuru, goes out bowling with Juri, Shiori, & Wakaba, and even though everyone else seems kinda changed/happy/or unaffected she (Nanami) still feels like something is WRONG and knows that Utena is the source. So... she (N) confronts Akio!!! And gets Utena's address...

When she rings the doorbell, Anthy answers, and what follows is the very best description of the aftermath of UxA I have ever read in my life, I shall quote since I could never paraphrase this moment:

BEGIN QUOTE:

"Nanami-san," she said, with the same polite, submissive
tone with which she'd said everything at Ohtori, "how nice to
see you again."  And she smiled.  It was the same smile she'd
had while wielding the long toothed length of the ice saw, and,
as before, it made Nanami's skin crawl. 

     "Don't play games with me," Nanami snapped.  Past Anthy, she
could see that the apartment was small, but far less shabby than
the rest of the building; it reminded her of the dorm room the
two had shared at the East Hall, with a place for everything and
everything in its place.  She wondered where the animals were
hiding, and how many.  She glared at a point about six inches to
the left of Anthy's head.  "Where is she?"
     
     Anthy's smile changed subtly but profoundly at the sound of
Utena's voice; it lost all malice, all otherness, and became warm
and human.  It was as though Nanami no longer existed in her
sight.  "Come and see, Utena."  She stepped back and pulled the
door wider.  "Please come in, Nanami-san," she said in an
undertone.                                                                    END QUOTE

It is an AMAZING story, and also reveals the most wickedly delicious detail I've ever read about the after math of what would happen to Anthy & Akio's relationship. Get this: They write each other letters! He writes her, that he misses her and she should return, and she writes him that she hates him and she will not return, but back and forth they go. It was amazingly creepy!

Hina the Prince wrote:

I tried to read Jaquemart, but the I couldn't stand the script-style writing for too long. -shrug- Archimage will forever remain my #1 fanfic for any genre ever not only because the characterization and plot, but also the gorgeous writing and symbolism. etc-love

And Anthy holding back her feelings for Utena so they can live normally? In character? That seems highly unlikely to me. Post-series Anthy, IMO, will bear some resemblance her movie counterpart - she will be more open about her sexuality and, well, everything. She doesn't have Onii-sama to hold her back now and I don't think Utena would reject her if Anthy put the moves on her because they've been pretty gay since the beginning of the series. Utena is just a wee bit in denial, but her post-series self probably won't be as naive and innocent.

Blade wrote:

umm...

Did you actually just say that Akio's influence is holding back Anthy from being open about her sexuality?

Hey man, there are much kinder, less prickly ways to ask someone to explain what they mean!

And Hina, I know what you're saying there, that Anthy would seem more open (you would think) after leaving Ohtori & Akio behind, because as we UxA shippers agree, Anthy was restricted sexually by Akio, because A: he forced her to have sex with him, and B: Pimped her out to whichever duelist won. Note, this may not be how EVERYONE views Anthy's time at Ohtori, but we UxA fans tend to take this viewpoint. Anthy, having her druthers, would choose who she slept with freely, would not choose the duelist, would not choose Akio, she would choose Utena, to boot! emot-keke

However, in this particular story, Hina, Jaquemart, it is reminiscent of Archimage in that Anthy does admit she loves Utena, and near the end, is willing to sacrifice anyone else's LIFE to free her from the illusion where she's trapped. The reason the relationship was not Full Blown Love, right after Ohtori escape was because they were still "trapped" because Akio was still alive...so Anthy still was living in chains. That was just part of the story. Kind of like in Archimage, the way they continue running, because Akio is after them. He is there, again, as a block to the perfect love. Unfortunately, in Jaquemart, this will never be solved. But in Archimage, hopefully it will.


Just remember that the things you put into your head are there forever, he said. You might want to think about that. / You forget some things, don't you? / Yes. You forget what you want to remember and you remember what you want to forget.

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#37 | Back to Top03-08-2007 07:11:54 PM

SleepDebtFairy
Revolutionary
From: Virginia
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2095

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

That is a really nice excerpt, Frosty. emot-keke I like how Nanami noticed the change in Anthy's smile.

I'm a huge Utena/Anthy lover, but I don't necessarily think that Akio forced Anthy to have sex with him. Actually, I'm not even sure. Akio and Anthy interaction confuses the hell out of me.

But I do agree that Anthy's freedom from Ohtori would give her a lot more sexual freedom as well. She definitely did choose Utena over Akio in the end, and she doesn't have to be engaged to a duelist and do whatever they want. Pretty much, in the end, Utena did succeed in giving Anthy a more normal life.

Last edited by SleepDebtFairy (03-08-2007 07:13:20 PM)


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#38 | Back to Top03-08-2007 09:30:35 PM

ShatteredMirror
Yaoi Pet #1
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 8858

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

I don't think Akio forced Anthy to have sex with him per se... perhaps it's more accurate to say that he forced her to want to have sex with him... because I don't think he would outright rape someone, it's just too much of a hassle for him to deal with the results of that. If I can articulate this better, I'll definitely post a follow-up but I can't quite describe what I'm thinking.


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#39 | Back to Top03-08-2007 10:29:52 PM

Hina the Prince
Friend, Perhaps
From: Israel
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 320

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

Blade wrote:

Did you actually just say that Akio's influence is holding back Anthy from being open about her sexuality?  emot-confused

Pretty much, yup. Akio's influence held her back from being with anyone else. It just happened to be Utena, who is female. emot-tongue

That excerpt was sweet, Frosty, but Akio mailing Anthy non-stop sating "omg plz come back" and Anthy replying "No I hate you" sounded kind of silly to me. XD

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

I'm a huge Utena/Anthy lover, but I don't necessarily think that Akio forced Anthy to have sex with him. Actually, I'm not even sure. Akio and Anthy interaction confuses the hell out of me.

He raped her once. That's enough.

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#40 | Back to Top03-08-2007 10:40:08 PM

ShatteredMirror
Yaoi Pet #1
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 8858

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

Hina the Prince wrote:

That excerpt was sweet, Frosty, but Akio mailing Anthy non-stop sating "omg plz come back" and Anthy replying "No I hate you" sounded kind of silly to me. XD

I have to admit it made me smile for that reason. emot-biggrin


Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source.

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#41 | Back to Top03-08-2007 11:28:42 PM

Maarika
Someday Shiner
From: Estonia
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 2510
Website

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

I read a few chapters of "Jaquemart" before I got bored with it. However, I think it's very well written and it's definitely above average fanfiction. It's just that if people write post-series fanfics where Akio is scheming something evil again, then it makes me feel as if they sort of missed the point of the series. Even though they can write in a way that makes sense, I do believe the point of the show was brought out through the story and all the details, but those details (such as the duels etc) do not matter on they're own. If you think about the ending, then it only shows how Anthy leaves Ohtori. If all the details mattered that much then we would have at least seen how she finds Utena again. But we don't and yet we know she does. And also, the Akio going evil again concept seems to be sooooo overused, at least half of the post-series fanfics are about that. emot-frown 
I'm not saying they aren't worth reading, 'cause some of them definitely are, but I don't feel like reading about the same things all the time.


Also, I don't think Anthy was ever raped by Akio. In fact, she was making good use of him 'cause he was all she had and by that I mean Akio was completely hers. Anthy is very possessive about things like that since she has to fill the void somehow and a 'prince' like that seems to do it perfectly.

Wow, we're going so off-topic here.


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#42 | Back to Top03-09-2007 12:25:16 AM

Frosty
Everyone's Best Friend
From: United States
Registered: 11-16-2006
Posts: 1269
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Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

I know it seems very prevalent in all fanfiction today, that Akio is still up to his old tricks, and that kinda renders Utena's "revolution" pointless, but if the concept of Akio "going at it again" is overused, Alan Harnum was one of the very first to begin the trend. Also...

(spoiler to semi-ending of Jaquemart)

It seems that near the end, there was some sort of plan, by Utena to "save" Akio. I will never know, because I never spoke with Alan Harnum myself, back in the day when I lurked all over alt.fan.utena.  But it ends where Utena is in the Ohtori castle, or some similar equivalent magical replica, and she finds Kanae is pregnant with some sort of demon-esque child. (might have been plotting to reincarnate Akio if he were to be killed or something) And I forget if the baby is helpful to Utena, or not...but I remember it speaks to her, from within Kanae's womb and either points her in the right direction, or gives her cryptic advice. ANYWAY, it seemed like the ending of Jaquemart was leading to the final redemption of Akio. And who better to save the fallen prince, than the real one - Utena. But Anthy, was scared to death over this occurrence, and in the end, she takes along the straggling duelist and marches through the castle of illusions to "save" Utena before she gets herself killed "saving" Akio. It really would have been interesting to see that story end, but ah well...

I sit on the middle of the fence, with Akio raping Anthy. I know in the one scene, she looks upset when he pulls her to him - and you assume that it was a sexual advance, and so I would assume that it was rape. But then, Anthy, being a very three dimensional character, also was very possessive, as you pointed out Maarika. Scenes come to mind near the end, when Utena/Anthy/Akio are all living together in his tower, you see Anthy show some passive-aggressiveness...and it isn't always clear that it's because she's trying to "keep Utena away from Akio" but sometimes, that she actually WANTS Akio to herself. Now, as a UxA fan, I would say that the only reason she behaved that way was because it was another self-sacrificial move to protect Utena by keeping Akio interested in herself (Anthy).

Yeah, we are off topic! Basically all this to say, I don't like anyone paired with Utena, save for Anthy. emot-keke

edit: I swapped the "I don't like anyone paired with Anthy, save for Utena..." because I do not mind Anthy being paired off with others, it's only Utena paired with others that irks me in fanfiction.

Last edited by Frosty (03-09-2007 12:34:17 AM)


Just remember that the things you put into your head are there forever, he said. You might want to think about that. / You forget some things, don't you? / Yes. You forget what you want to remember and you remember what you want to forget.

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#43 | Back to Top03-09-2007 05:01:30 AM

Hina the Prince
Friend, Perhaps
From: Israel
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 320

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

Maarika wrote:

Also, I don't think Anthy was ever raped by Akio.

Their relationship is very open to interpretation, really, but I think that by the Apocalypse arc she realized she has feelings for Utena - doesn't matter what feelings, the very fact that SHE can FEEL made her think some things over. Her interest in Akio was disappearing with time, until it seemed like she was only sleeping with him because she had to. And we mustn't forget this part [sorry if quote isn't all that accurate]:

Akio: Anthy, come here.
Anthy: ... -remains unmoving, staring off into the distance-
Akio: RAR!!!1 D< -smashes glass and pulls her to him-

Looks like rape to me, alright.

In fact, she was making good use of him 'cause he was all she had, and by that I mean Akio was completely hers. Anthy is very possessive about things like that since she has to fill the void somehow and a 'prince' like that seems to do it perfectly.

But that's the thing. Anthy has Utena now. And Anthy doesn't seem terribly bothered by the fact that Akio shags everything that moves. Why would she care about Utena having sex with him?

Frosty wrote:

I know it seems very prevalent in all fanfiction today, that Akio is still up to his old tricks, and that kinda renders Utena's "revolution" pointless

Why? The point of Utena's revolution was setting Anthy free, and it worked. Akio could keep going with his evil schemes [the revolution had nothing to do with him, after all], but that doesn't mean they'll work, because Anthy is no longer bound to him. He's lost his power.

Scenes come to mind near the end, when Utena/Anthy/Akio are all living together in his tower, you see Anthy show some passive-aggressiveness...and it isn't always clear that it's because she's trying to "keep Utena away from Akio" but sometimes, that she actually WANTS Akio to herself.

Would you mind refreshing my memory about those scenes? I think I have a selective memory. emot-gonk

Last edited by Hina the Prince (03-09-2007 05:06:23 AM)

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#44 | Back to Top03-09-2007 05:17:51 AM

Yams
Nest Boxer
From: Crystal Millenium
Registered: 02-13-2007
Posts: 963

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

Hina the Prince wrote:

Would you mind refreshing my memory about those scenes? I think I have a selective memory. emot-gonk

Well, besides Anthy always watching them with her creepy shiny glasses, there's one scene that comes to mind. When they are taking a picture together, I Utena is standing between Akio and Anthy. Anthy goes up to the camera to get Chuchu and when she comes back she sort of shoves herself between Utena and Akio. That could be interpreted as jealousy on her part, not wanting Utena getting close to 'her' Akio.

I somehow don't see Anthy as coming to hate Akio. Not sure why, she seems to pity him, be amused by him, but I don't think she'd hate him.


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#45 | Back to Top03-09-2007 05:30:31 AM

Hina the Prince
Friend, Perhaps
From: Israel
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 320

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

It could also work the other way around. emot-tongue I meant the scenes that could /only/ be interperted as Anthy/Akio.

Last edited by Hina the Prince (03-09-2007 05:31:40 AM)

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#46 | Back to Top03-09-2007 05:48:06 AM

Yams
Nest Boxer
From: Crystal Millenium
Registered: 02-13-2007
Posts: 963

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

Everything in Utena has multiple interpretations. Its best not to dwell on all the possibilities if we are to remain sane. school-sherlock


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#47 | Back to Top03-09-2007 12:00:47 PM

Lightice
Azure Paleontologist
From: Finland
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 1255

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

Hina the Prince wrote:

Akio: Anthy, come here.
Anthy: ... -remains unmoving, staring off into the distance-
Akio: RAR!!!1 D< -smashes glass and pulls her to him-

Looks like rape to me, alright.

A forceful act, but not a full-blown rape. Anthy lacked reaction, she didn't have the negative reaction. That is, she wasn't responsive or interested, but she didn't outright reject him, either. That described quite a bit about their relationship, actually.

And, while I can't remember the episode, I remember a scene where the two have apparently just finished having sex and Anthy acts like it had been just some boring little trifle - in that scene it's Akio who asks how long she is going to torment him and she answers with that creepy little smirk of hers. I remember when I first time saw that scene I was almost suspecting that Akio is actually Anthy's prisoner and Ohtori is in fact her design, not his. That wasn't exactly true, but it's clear that Anthy holds quite considerable power over her brother, as well as more easily recognised vice versa. His occasional possessive lapses show this better than anything else.

No, I wouldn't call that scene, or any other a rape - they are all Anthy's shows of power over Akio, just as much as Akio's over Anthy.

I read a few chapters of "Jaquemart" before I got bored with it.

Blasphemy! It's the best piece of fanfiction that I've ever read - one that'd easily deserve an offical status, if such thing were possible. I hope that Alan Harnum is putting his writing skills in good use in whatever he's doing now - and that some day he'd feel a pang of inspiration and finish the Jaquemart. That's propably in vain, though. Oh well...emot-frown

Last edited by Lightice (03-09-2007 12:04:23 PM)


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#48 | Back to Top03-09-2007 12:07:24 PM

Hina the Prince
Friend, Perhaps
From: Israel
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 320

Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

Lightice wrote:

A forceful act, but not a full-blown rape. Anthy lacked reaction, she didn't have the negative reaction. That is, she wasn't responsive or interested, but she didn't outright reject him, either. That described quite a bit about their relationship, actually.

She didn't reject him but she didn't accept him, either. If this kind of thing [God forbid] would happen to you, would you go "huh, I didn't push him away screaming, so that didn't count as rape"? Somehow, I doubt that.

I do agree that Anthy has more control over Akio than he has on her - the end of the series made it obvious, but that doesn't mean he has no control on her, nor does it mean he can't hurt her. Aaaand let's move this to the Akio/Anthy thread because this topic hijacking has been going on for too long.

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#49 | Back to Top03-09-2007 12:23:41 PM

Yasha
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From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6018
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Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

Yup! Thanks, Hina! I was just about to say that.


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#50 | Back to Top03-09-2007 01:24:22 PM

Epi_lepsia
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From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: 11-26-2006
Posts: 1429
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Re: Worst Anime Couples (canon or fandom)

I hate hyuugacest.

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