You are not logged in.

Gougai! Gougai!

GUYS GUYS I JUST UPLOADED THE 1997 UTENA MUSICAL IN HIGH DEFINITION straight from the Japanese Blu-rays! i am now very tired goodnight

Also, our Secret Santa is going on! Come join in the fun!

#1 | Back to Top08-05-2017 02:23:29 PM

anthy_himemiya
Saionji Slapper
From: Jacksonville, FL
Registered: 08-05-2017
Posts: 20

I dislike the manga

Am I the only one who somewhat dislikes the manga? Overall, I feel like it's almost a joke compared to the anime, which is brilliant. I hate what Chiho Saito did to Juri's character, which is make her a generic Touga fangirl instead of the fascinating, complex character she is in the anime. Also, Chiho Saito's feelings on Utena x Anthy and the fact that there is less of a romantic subtext to their relationship in the manga -- the manga, to me, seemed to have more of an emphasis on Utena's heterosexual attractions to Akio and Touga than on her feelings for Anthy. It also lacks all of the symbolism, subtlety, themes of the loss of innocence, and almost dark/horrific tone that makes the anime so great and affecting.

Also... [] The manga lacks the moment that pretty much *made* the anime for me. The fact that Utena's true motivation for wanting to becoming a Prince so many years ago was out of a desire to save Anthy from her horrible fate, and not because of the Prince himself, yet time and one may argue, compulsory heteronormativity, made her forget -- was the twist that made the anime's story so impacting and unforgettable to me. This is completely absent from the manga, which makes the manga's story a lot more hollow as a result. It reads a lot more like generic shoujo, and less the subversive, unique story that the anime is. []

Really, the only things I like about the manga are the side stories, and the art. Also, I actually adore the movie manga, which I feel honors the movie's storyline more than the manga does the anime (plus, the last scene with Utena and Anthy in the movie theater is one of my favorites in the whole series)

Last edited by anthy_himemiya (08-05-2017 02:49:07 PM)

Offline

 

#2 | Back to Top08-05-2017 02:39:49 PM

Arale
Ballgoer
From: collective human consciousness
Registered: 12-07-2014
Posts: 145
Website

Re: I dislike the manga

Most people don't like the manga.

But... the manga started publication first. It was based on the plans for the anime, so the anime is still the "original"/main work, but the manga started much earlier. So... of course the anime is better, because Ikuhara was responding to it. So everything in the manga gets turned on its head in the anime, and there's not really much Saito could do about that when it was already published.

So even though the manga isn't as good as the show, I don't think that's its fault at all. There's nothing wrong with it on its own, and on its own is how people first encountered it. (In Japan at least.) It's kind of like a "prologue to Utena" almost; Chu-chu's ring and tie and Utena's black outfit are given to them in the manga for example, and they carry over to the show.

Last edited by Arale (08-05-2017 02:43:48 PM)


im a shadow play girl irl

Offline

 

#3 | Back to Top08-05-2017 03:01:28 PM

Dallbun
Tour Guide to Crawling Chaos
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 695

Re: I dislike the manga

anthy_himemiya wrote:

Am I the only one who somewhat dislikes the manga?

The answer an "Am I the only one who...?" question is always no, of course. Mostly I feel a deep apathy towards the manga, but when holding that up against the anime, that often becomes dislike. Which is fine. Most people in this community are here for the anime, and you see a variety of views on the manga, movie, movie manga, and so on.


Arale wrote:

So... of course the anime is better, because Ikuhara was responding to it.

I've heard this claimed before - that the creators of the anime were in some way responding to the manga. Do we have any particular evidence that this was the case? I'm genuinely curious - I haven't thoroughly read the available creator interviews or anything.

My (similarly un-sourced) impression has always been that the basic scenario was hashed out by Be-Papas, and the creative teams (Saitou and Ikuhara/Enokido/Hasegawa) then went their own directions with it... and the manga came out first simply because less time is needed to create a finished manga product than an anime.

Offline

 

#4 | Back to Top08-05-2017 06:07:40 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8751
Website

Re: I dislike the manga

I'd have to dig through my resources but IIRC the manga and series ran closely together for the first arc and then timing and creative differences started showing more. That's why the first arc is comparatively lighthearted.

The limitations of the medium meant Saito had a smaller cast, which consequently meant she finished things faster. The anime is still overall a response to the manga in the sense that it's a response to shoujo broadly as a genre and Saito kind of personified that.

A more cynical person, like myself, would point out that for all of Utena's Yaya women rule shit, at the end of the day we're all responding to a predominantly male answer to a predominantly female driven genre, at least when it's manga. That has never bothered me but it's worth noting that the feminist messages in the series are painted mostly by the males involved.

I can't speak to the Japanese fanbase but the English-speaking one far and away favors the anime, with the movie having some fans also based mostly on its more explicit homosexuality. Dallbun's put it well, I generally feel apathy towards the manga, it's not its fault it isn't the anime, and I doubt it could have been because the anime used the medium so well. The broad strokes of the storyline are just fine, but that Saito wrote an ending before the series did is very obvious. She kind of takes the path of least resistance with it, and isn't very committed to the characters that drive the final plot, hence why somehow Touga tags along though he does nothing.

Most people seem to hold Juri being straight as the reason to hate the manga, which is totally fair. I'm not even a fan of her in the anime but at least she's not the generic thwarted love interest of the bish there. That said I did enjoy just now reading the manga assuming she's a lesbian and that she has a weird protective relationship with her bro friend. She does snap at him in similar ways to series Juri and their relationship there has always seemed pretty amazing to me. 

For my part, Akio is cartoonishly evil and lame in the manga, which is saying a lot given he fucking jumps over cars in the anime. His relationship with Anthy is supposed to be enough to shock you, which it's not, and at the end of the day it's very obvious she doesn't like writing him. I don't know what her other manga are like but I got the distinct impression she didn't want to write characters that horrible. She does the same thing to Touga, where the scenes of him being an asshole seem forced and don't really make sense alongside the rest of her characterization.

By what I've seen in interviews, and I've mentioned this before, what I personally like about the series I don't think is Ikuhara either. Enokido seemed to be the primary driver of the characterizations I liked, and that that kind of depth and willingness to be cruel to your characters is less present in penguin drum speaks to this.

All that said, Saito is probably the best equipped to portray the characters after they leave the school? I'm extremely ambivalent going worried that this may lead to new anime. I don't know.


Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)

Offline

 

#5 | Back to Top08-05-2017 07:16:11 PM

Arale
Ballgoer
From: collective human consciousness
Registered: 12-07-2014
Posts: 145
Website

Re: I dislike the manga

Dallbun wrote:

I've heard this claimed before - that the creators of the anime were in some way responding to the manga. Do we have any particular evidence that this was the case? I'm genuinely curious - I haven't thoroughly read the available creator interviews or anything.

My (similarly un-sourced) impression has always been that the basic scenario was hashed out by Be-Papas, and the creative teams (Saitou and Ikuhara/Enokido/Hasegawa) then went their own directions with it... and the manga came out first simply because less time is needed to create a finished manga product than an anime.

What comes to mind is the "I'm a fool" scenes. In the manga, there's a scene involving Touga's warnings about Akio in which Utena, in Touga's arms, cries out "I'm a fool!". In the anime, there is a very similar scene, except Utena proudly walks away from Touga and states "Yes, I am a fool." The two scenes are basically the same in content and context, but the anime reverses the meaning through the attitudes of the characters.


im a shadow play girl irl

Offline

 

#6 | Back to Top08-06-2017 10:51:15 AM

itavin
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
From: is-real
Registered: 10-21-2016
Posts: 185

Re: I dislike the manga

I actually find manga jury to be a very interesting character. She shows a proud and tough persona when she really wants a guy, that in the context of society would make her wake. Loving the guy that everyone has a crush on is weak, and she wants to rid herself of that weakness. But, she still clings on to him despite all of her ideas of her pride. She is a massive hypocrite, because she wants to reject the guy she loves in favor of her pride yet she constantly pines for his attention. Now it may be a little simplistic, but I find that to be nice about the manga, it has a different view point from the anime. One way it is done is in the relationship between utena and anthy. Instead of having utena be all like, "well my lover is a shit guy so Im gonna go after his sister and bang her" and because of her love for anthy she helps her see how she can save herself, in the manga she is all like "well my lover is a shit guy so im gonna help my friend and not be driven by "love" for his sister". Because, I find it interesting, the theme of sexual relationships over platonic ones, and how one could have more importance over the other. Because usually, many people, especially teenagers, will chose sexual relationships over platonic ones. And to see utena defies that idea that many teens are after is a good thing. Dont get me wrong, I love the anime more then the manga and I am a hardcore AnthyxUtena, but I find the different versions of the story and how it explores different ideas is very nice.


If you ever feel like wanting to ruin your life... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game)

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB 1.2.23
© Copyright 2002–2008 PunBB
Forum styled and maintained by Giovanna and Yasha
Return to Empty Movement