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Gougai! Gougai!

Hey I know you have opinions, put them in here! Translation suggestions for episodes 25-39, thanks all for your help!

ALSO!!! After the Revolution is now translated, scanlated, and ready for consumption! Thanks to everyone that's helped out! Ayu, you're awesome. Download here!

#1 | Back to Top07-19-2017 10:58:19 PM

Postmistress Elf of Subtext
From: North Carolina
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 5081

The Wicked and the Divine: Thoughts from the Fantheon!

To avoid derailing the comics thread too much, here's a shiny new thread for The Wicked and the Divine! emot-dance Open to any and all discussion points, predictions, impressions, headcanon, jokes, meta, live reactions, etc-- these are just a few starter questions I have, feel free to add your own theories or questions! (As this is an on-going series with new reveals happening often, there are likely to be spoilers posted! Tag and read responsibly!)

1. Who are your favorite characters?

2. Once their inner God/Goddess is awakened, how much of their original self do you feel the Pantheon members retain-- for example, is [Ruth] completely gone from Sahkmet or do both personalities coexist, with one voice simply being louder than the other? Is the power and influence of Godhood enough to change a more humble or meek personality into a bolder one without any other "erasing" factors necessary?

3. Can Ananke select anyone as a God based on convenience? Does anything about them really factor into which God they become or is it up to her discretion?

4. What is [the Great Darkness]? Was Ananke being truthful about [everything she did and everyone she sacrificed being necessary to stop it, and are we fucked without her]?

5. Will anyone be left alive at this rate? Is [living past the second year, perhaps at the cost of sanity] possible? Could fallen Gods [ever be found or contacted in the Underworld]?

6. Just for kicks, if your choice of Utena characters were chosen for the Pantheon, which Gods do you think they would become?

Last edited by dollface (07-19-2017 11:02:41 PM)

ah, man does not exist; ah, within the darkness; ah, the sound of the waves



#2 | Back to Top07-20-2017 08:49:40 AM

Juri Jeerer
From: outer space
Registered: 07-22-2016
Posts: 48

Re: The Wicked and the Divine: Thoughts from the Fantheon!

Woot woot emot-dance Thanks for making the thread dollface!

1. I love Cassandra and Woden. Which is funny 'cause they're like complete opposites. I like Cass because while she's certainly not level-headed, she's the closest of the characters to logical reasoning (besides Minerva). And I can relate to having a strong sense of right from wrong, sometimes to the point of alienating other people. But I feel like I have my anger a LOT more managed than Cass. Now, Woden I like because he's an asshole manchild, but like in issue 25 when [Persephone brings him into the Underground and mind-fricks him], we see the sad, scared little manchild he really is. I guess in essence, I can empathize with how he feels useless, being unable to have powers for himself. Woden's like Akio if he had a low self esteem. ...He's still a racist, sexist jerkface though. I guess he's what the kids call a "problematic fav." Other characters I like are Sakhmet, Minerva, Baph and The Morrigan. Luci was my original fav emot-gonk
But my fav characters are constantly changing, because the series is so damn good at making me love a character and then hate them the very next panel.

2. I think that the power they receive kinda messes them up mentally, unless they have a strong will like [Cass], Mini or Baal. Well, it's not like the powers themselves change who they are, but how they choose to use them. [Ruth was always very apathetic, so she took and ran with the abilities to become extremely lazy, extremely hedonistic and eat people when she became a god. Cass on the other hand has only been seen using her powers when she feels absolutely necessary... so far.] Basically, I think if a meek person became a god, their original personality could be erased if they overuse their powers. [An example of that being Laura's transformation into Persephone.]

3. I used to think that each person was destined to be a god, like no matter what the girl named Emily Greenaway was gonna be Amaterasu, but with [The Morrigan asking for Baph to be a god] and [the whole existence of Persephone], it seems more likely to me that Ananke randomly chooses who will be a god, with a slight basis on their personality.

4. I have no theories or ideas at the moment for what [The Great Darkness] is. I do think that [things are pretty fucked at the moment. BUT I do believe either Cass or Mini and Baal will find some not-as-foolproof countermeasure to it. I think Ananke was half-right about everything? Like she took a more extreme approach to stopping the Darkness, but there could be other ways.] When will we learn the truth?!?!?

5. I basically think everyone's gonna die. But that [Underworld] theory is pretty interesting, and I'd love to see something like that play out emot-aaa

6. Ooo, this is a fun one. ...But I can't think right now because I'm tired. I'll come back to it later. All I can think of is Akio would be Lucifer but duh, and I think Juri would be Inanna.

Last edited by sailor-anthy (07-20-2017 09:07:50 AM)

"There are some who call me... Tim."
- Tim the Enchanted



#3 | Back to Top07-20-2017 05:37:47 PM

Postmistress Elf of Subtext
From: North Carolina
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 5081

Re: The Wicked and the Divine: Thoughts from the Fantheon!

Great answers sailor-anthy! Thanks for sharing your ideas and predictions, I agree with all of it!

1. I'd have to say my top favorites are Dionysus, Persephone, and Woden (with Tara and Cass rounding out the top 5 probably.) Dionysus, like Inanna, strikes me as a character who is too good for his own good, and his "walking dancefloor" status is quite an interesting application of his powers-- he is right when he says that giving someone freedom from their troubles and easy, thoughtless happiness for a night is "no small thing," but I mostly enjoy examining how being so self-sacrificing can actually be very self-destructive behavior. It will surprise me if [the Great Darkness] claims Dio and not his own exhaustion. Persephone's story has also shifted into rather self-destructive territory, and I appreciate how Godhood challenges some to rise to the occasion while others seem to use it to keep falling. Though Persephone may believe herself to be quite different from Laura who wanted so badly to be a God, she has become just as lost-- but now she is left without that ideal solution to her feelings to reach toward. Having power hasn't given Persephone purpose as she convinced herself it would, and I think she has followed in Sahkmet's footsteps of slothful indulgence because that attraction to confidence, to aloofness, to having the things that give you pleasure and not addressing the things that give you feelings, is a very Laura way to feel (oh, Luci...) and with her most "purposeful" moment behind her [("I'm the destroyer." So long, Ananke!)] it is the most appealing state Persephone could exist in. As for Woden, like yourself, I can't help liking this childish, sexist, selfish ass. I think I enjoy a villain most when they are absolutely pathetic, and through the thorough beatdown of his power that cannot truly benefit him, his pitiful awakening to a lapdog of a God without any love or respect, and his own self-loathing awareness that he is a bad person and he isn't willing to change, I've just become unable to hate Woden and find him more pitiable. He's certainly still problematic, but that lens seems to be shifting toward [Amaterasu] more lately. They're a troublesome bunch, these Gods!

2. I do feel like some semblance of who they once were still resides within the Gods, but it seems to be presented as a level of power-- not just physical/magical power, but a feeling of being powerful-- that very few [Cassandra, most notably, who really never refers to herself as Urdr] seem at all interested in preserving what they might see as a weaker past. Most seem to feel as if that "version" of who they were is less important than who they have become, but I don't think it's well and truly gone in any of them, at least not in the sense of that personality being "erased" by Ananke.

3. I had also thought at one time that the specific Gods lied dormant inside specific people, through some kind of reincarnation system where only Ananke could find them (something akin to Luna's role in finding the Sailor Senshi) but I don't know that I can believe that anymore either. I do like to think that perhaps the potential for Godhood is found within many people, and it's not necessarily true that she could select absolutely anyone at any time out of her own convenience-- but it's hard to say one way or another when we just don't know [how much potential Cameron had to be Baphoment-- er, sorry, to be Nergal.]

4. I've got no answer to this myself, so I'd love to hear anyone's theories or guesses about it! I do, however, think there is some truth to [Ananke's actions relating to stopping the Great Darkness and not just killing Gods to take their lifespan and prolong her own-- but there is certainly still a less admirable motivation alongside this, she definitely gained from the deaths and withholding information from the living made her life more valuable. It may not be true that she was the only one who could prevent in but things will be much more difficult without her knowledge of what this enemy even is.]

5. I sort of answered this in the question, but I do think [living beyond the second year is possible, but the Gods would lose their sanity by that point.] This was demonstrated quite brutally in the 455 issue and is showing signs now in [Amaterasu, The Morrigan, and Sahkmet, although with Sahkmet this is not so much a new tendency toward slaughter as it is one they have managed to repress until now and may no longer be able to control without Ananke.]

6. Using Gods that have appeared in the series (from current and former Pantheons) I have a few little personal impressions, but I'd love to hear any thoughts on this using any Gods you're familiar with! The Lucifer/Akio parallel is mentioned in the show so that's a pretty clear choice, but I think perhaps the Dios/Utena combo could make an interesting incarnation of Ba'al-- something about ruling from the sky and being able to stave off famine and chaos seems fitting to me, and I can just see the powerful image of lightning striking when Utena dunks a basketball. I could see Touga as Dionysus. Oddly I can see Juri sharing a role with both twins; I could see Juri or Kozue as Inanna, and I can see Juri or Miki as Minerva, but favor Juri more for Minerva's ruling of strategy than of wisdom. Oh, and I'd love for Nanami to be Hestia.

ah, man does not exist; ah, within the darkness; ah, the sound of the waves



#4 | Back to Top07-21-2017 03:27:52 PM

Saionji Slapper
Registered: 04-01-2016
Posts: 27

Re: The Wicked and the Divine: Thoughts from the Fantheon!

1. Laura Wilson is one of my favorite characters in all media and one of the few I truly relate too. She's the idea fan, which no real ideas of a future rather than being either a fan or being a creator, and even then wondering if she truly has anything to say. After she become Percy, Cass took over, being snarky, smart, and generally the best.

2. I think personality wise, they stay the same. There's probably some remembrance of past selves, but they probably don't think about it that much. I do think the status of Godhood encourages them to be more reckless and both, lets them be what they would were there no restraints.

3. I think she can choose who is deified, and seeks people who are already deeply in the fandom and/or mythology of the Pantheon. Maybe the personalities of the humans make them more likely to be chosen?

4. While Ananke obviously intended to deceive, I don't think most of what she said is lies. Maybe the Great Darkness are the black creatures, or maybe it's Persephone herself. Or even the pervading attitude of selfishness and hedonism?

5. I do expect some Eleanor Rigby, somehow, in the future, for some reason. I feel like everyone will die, as Roman Lucifer lived for only two weeks past his expiration date, and because the death of everyone has been stated so many times (for example, there's a variant showing what would happen 25 issues later, and it's a gravestone for the entire Pantheon).

6. Just for kicks, if your choice of Utena characters were chosen for the Pantheon, which Gods do you think they would become?
I'll be lazy and only pick gods who have appeared in the series at least once, and have not very deep reasons for picking.

I can see both Utena and Juri as Luci. Androgynous sapphic women with snark and dress like men, yet generally good yet tragic.
Actually, Juri might be a good Cass, the only sane woman of the team, though she is still one of them, not wanting to admit it.
Anthy is definitely Tara, having others reflect their wants on her and her sacrificing for her fans but being unable to find happiness.
Akio is Inanna, because of purple and trying to hit on everyone. (Or maybe he's Ananke, being the oldest, and looking helpful, but is secretly trying to mess everyone up.)
Touga is Baal, being the 'big man on campus' type but secretly sad.
Nanami could be Mini, for being young, but dealing with a lot, including family issues. Bonus points for Baal and Mini's sibling type relationship.
Saionji is Woden, being green, trying to be a manly man and misogynistic, but has obvious insecurities. (He could also be a Baphomet)
Miki could also be Woden, for looking at women like objects, and having incestuous subtext.
Wakaba is Laura, wanting to be special and hanging around and romancing the special people.
Kanae is Ammy, being the happy one that has a lot of problems he's not willing to face.
Kozue could be Sakhmet, because she is hedonistic/promiscuous and pretends to be unfeeling, but keeps her true feelings under wraps.
Dios is Dio, because they are both incredibly kind and have similar names. (and the prince/self-sacrificing thing)
Mikage is Roman Lucifer, who broke the rules of the game and went crazy while thinking of his dead crush and burning buildings.
Can't think of a Morri right now, though it should be easy as pretty much every Utena character is in a abusive and/or destructive relationship. (Maybe Shiori, with her toxic behavior towards Juri?)
Keiko is any Pantheon fan, wanting to be close to the fans but nowhere close.
Maybe Mitsuru is a Valkyrie, wanting to be close to a God and doing all they can to satisfy them and get their attention, up to an including plotting to hurt them.

....I kinda want a Utena/WicDiv crossover now. What do you think?

Last edited by Revolutionary (07-21-2017 03:42:47 PM)

Rule 1: You can never be too sure what will happen next... -Ruby Redfort



#5 | Back to Top07-23-2017 02:38:51 PM

Decrescent Daytripper
Best Disney Princess
Registered: 04-09-2007
Posts: 2780

Re: The Wicked and the Divine: Thoughts from the Fantheon!

My Brain is the Wakaba and Shiori Funtime Hour. With limited commercial interruption.



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