There are lots of spiritual twins in RGU, including Utena/Anthy, Miki/Kozue, and of course Juri/Shiori. In the movie manga Juri despises Anthy for many of the same reasons Shiori does in the anime. They both want to destroy their "inner Anthy." Shiori does not want to be Juri's Anthy, she wants her own place in the sun but she does not have a clue how to do it. Like many others in Ohtori Shiori sees self-esteem and confidence as a zero-sum game.

I wonder if to some extent Juri is projecting her own weaknesses and self-loathing onto Shiori without knowing it. It's a real tragedy of mutual misunderstanding.

It would be interesting to look at Utena and Anthy as a pair of spiritual twins.

All these great essays are making me want to watch SKUl from the beginning again and I just finished it!

Giovanna wrote:

I was capping episode 24, the Nanami one, and I couldn't help but notice Tsuwabuki is covering himself with the sheet in a way that looks rather a lot like...a toga.

For a minute there I thought you said...a Touga.

Who here hasn’t asked themselves, “Why the hell are cars popping out of the floor of the dueling arena?” The answer, as you may have already guessed, is because it’s symbolic. The best place to examine this symbolism is in Saionji’s third duel. Since it’s the first time we see this symbolism, the way his duel is set up intentionally makes it very easy to interpret.

Perhaps I’m mistaken, and correct me if I am, but down the road that leads to the End of the World, they get a glimpse at eternity/miracles/everything that glows/the Power to Revolutionize the World/the Power of Dios there. If that’s true, then the cars technically serve as means of reaching the Power of Dios. When they go on a car ride, they come back different from how they were before because they got a glimpse at what it is that they desire.

The way that the cars move relates to what is happening in the duel. Before the duel, you can hear the engine warming up, just as the duelists are getting ready to duel.

The bells toll to start the duel, and so the cars appear once the duel has begun.



When the two of them begin to run, the car that was there ever since Saionji arrived begins to move. The car is powered by the duel. When the duel is moving forward, the car accelerates. Saionji and the other members of the Student Council are the only ones that the car driving along the side of the dueling arena symbolizes, and not Utena. Think of what this duel means. If they win, they’ll be a step closer to fulfilling their desires, so their ambitions are moving forward as well. In the end, this duel is a race towards power, and only the person that wins can continue.


In this duel, Saionji does not have a Rose Bride, but in Miki, Ruka, and Touga’s duel, we see the Rose Brides riding in the passenger’s seat of the car. The duelist powers the car, but the Rose Bride is in the passenger’s seat, because they get to share the Power of Dios with the victor. Miki, Ruka, and Touga all planned to share power with Kozue, Shiori, and Saionji in some way, so they ride in the car. Saionji, Juri, and Nanami, however, did not, and so they didn’t have a Rose Bride. Ruka and Touga were two rather unusual cases, because they just stood and watched, rather than riding in the car. It’s because Juri and Nanami did not plan to share the power with them.

]

When the two of them clash swords, the duel is no longer moving forward, and so the wheels of the car stop. When Saionji slashes his sword at Utena, the duel is moving forward, so the wheels begin to spin again. It shows the car accelerate whenever Saionji and the other duelists are winning.




Before Dios appears, the headlines shine up towards the castle. Headlights make it possible to see, even on the darkest roads. When Dios was sealed away, the world was engulfed in darkness, so the headlights cut through the darkness of the world whenever he appears.


When the duelist loses the duel, the car crashes, along with their chances of gaining the Power of Dios.

Razara, please have my babies.

Clarice wrote:

Ah, now that's interesting...Touga planned to share the power with Saionji, but not the other way around...?

Touga's role in Saionji's duel isn't as a Rose Bride, so he wouldn't be sharing that power. He's not even there, he's with Akio, further illustrating that his role is the same as it is in the later duels. He's Akio's right hand man, he brought Saionji to Akio, but offers Saionji nothing above and beyond what the other duelists get from him. (Edit: Actually, that Saionji is used for the episode introducing us to Touga's new role is even more telling of the severity of it, and how much Touga's become Akio's creature. If there's any duel Touga should have been a little more emotionally involved in, it would have been Saionji or Nanami. Instead, they're the first and the last, the points the series makes that Touga is really in deep with Akio, and willing to quite without regret sell out the people close to him. We knew that in the first arc, but this one just really seals it for us.)

All the duelists in the Akio arc share some sort of intimacy with their Rose Brides. Even if it's a little bumpy, there's open trust and affection, even in Miki and Kozue. Even for Shiori and Ruka they've shared a sexual relationship, which is something at least. But Ruka's situation I think tells us something about the mechanics of this all that might indicate why no one is Saionji's Rose Bride. If we assume it's all about the emotional bond, Shiori shouldn't have been in a position to remove the sword. Instead, perhaps we should just jump right onto the sex bandwagon and look at the sword pulling the same way. It can be rape, but it's not in this arc, it's consenting. But different people can consent to sex for different reasons, and some will require an emotional bond (Miki) and others will give it out to whoever they need to to accomplish their goal (Ruka). Sex can be used almost aggressively to prove a point (Nanami), or it can be the end of a road two people travel down to find out how much they need each other (Touga).

IMO there are no conditions at this point in the series that would make Saionji willing to do this thing with Touga, and Touga is not in a place where he'd offer it genuinely. Especially considering he's setting Saionji up to lose. He's not trying to help Saionji win, so why would he offer to pull his sword? And if he did, Saionji hearing Touga suggest he can help him? Fuck you, Touga. The Apocalypse Arc is where Touga and Saionji really develop their relationship, at this point the barbs and hate and abuse are still there.

Last edited by Giovanna (02-16-2007 03:45:25 PM)

Undead Princess wrote:

YamPuff wrote:

This one still stumps me:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i232/ … -94521.png
Its from ep.26, Miki is talking with his father about his getting remarried and supposedly the one inthe Rose Bride dress is his new mother.

I was going to ask about this one, since I don't know what it means either, HOWEVER, after thinking it over, I've been wondering...
Do any of you possibly think it could be a link between stepmothers from fairy tales and Anthy being "the witch"?
I think they (the writes) are trying to either imply that Anthy and Akio's hand in ruining the students' lives goes beyond the school grounds, and/or that perhaps Anthy isn't just a witch, but also a stepmother, which is an anti-princess role, in fairy tales.
For example, in Snow White, a fairy tale that obviously has influenced the Utena series with its coffin and witch imagery, the evil queen who is Snow White's stepmother tries to destroy Snow White while never letting her know its her that is doing it, which is very Anthy-like, right?

It was just a thought and there's probably more to elaborate on, but I haven't seen the episode in a while, so yeah... Just saying.

I think I will have to rewatch Episode 26 before I point out what I think of this fansinating idea you came up with.

BTW Welcome to the IRG forum.

Razara wrote:

To this day, I still debate with myself over whether or not this duel symbolizes her own internal conflict, or if it symbolizes her battle for dominance over Juri. For this post, I decided to interpret it as though it was a battle between Juri and Shiori. I still don’t know which is correct, especially since Utena symbolizes Shiori earlier in the episode, making it seem more likely that it symbolizes another side of her feelings in this battle as well…

If you can't decide which it symbolizes then it symbolizes both ;D
Things are rarely what they seem so if you look at them from as many viewpoints as possible, you get a result that is the closest to the "right" answer. And when you interprete something (especially SKU related) then I suppose you can't really interprete it incorrectly, because as long as you provide proof of why you think the way do, it can't be completely wrong.




Anyway, I couldn't leave this one alone so here's my interpretation on Keiko and her umbrella.

The first time we see the umbrella is when Keiko is seen walking in the rain and she has it with her. That's when she also notices Touga all alone and soaked since he doesn't have an umbrella.

The umbrella is orange except for a sector on that's yellow. Anyone can figure out that yellow is used as a reference for Nanami in SKU. This is very fitting in this context, too, since Keiko has quite a lot to do with Nanami.


Just like the previous shot, the yellow part of the umbrella is pointed to the left of Keiko. This is where Nanami is physically during this scene. Note that the direction of it doesn't matter that much, what's more important is the overall colour of the umbrella and the fact that Keiko is under the umbrella. This refers to Keiko's servitude under Nanami. Nanami has always been above her and that's what makes her feel miserable. Yet the only reason why she's willing to be in that position is because this is a way how she can get closer to Touga.

Moving on, there's another symbolic scene involving Nanami and umbrellas. Keiko goes to pay a small visit to Touga.


This time Touga is not soaked and doesn't need an umbrella. So then why does Keiko bring it with her and open it inside the house? Mostly to confuse as many watchers as possible, but also because she's viewing Nanami differently than before. There's a very direct representation of this when Keiko starts pulling a sword from Touga.


This time the umbrella is held sideways so you can see the yellow sector almost at the top (I didn't take a screenshot of that, sorry). Note that before the umbrella is turned over (or more liked spinned), the yellow setor was next to the orange sector that was at the top. I think the orange sectors represent people Keiko has/wants to deal with, and the yellow one is Nanami as I said before. Among the orange ones is also Touga; I think this is why the one at the top was orange -- Keiko values him the most, and only then comes Nanami. Also, Nanami is different in her eyes. Keiko is bound to her and soon finds out what Nanami is really like.
(I suck at explaining this...) What I mean is that the reason why for example Touga doesn't have his part of the umbrella coloured [red], is because Keiko perceives only Nanami's influence. Nothing changes in Keiko's life without Nanami; everything revolves around her. At the same time Nanami is the key to make her dreams come true and also the chain that binds her from doing so.

Gah, I nearly forgot to mention the point of this screenshot. The act of spinning the umbrella could be interpreted as turning the tables, 'cause that's exactly what Keiko thinks she's doing. She is trying to bring Nanami down, hence why the yellow part of the umbrella is turned down like that.


On to the duel!

Note how the umbrellas are placed again -- the yellow part of it is not directly at the top.


Keiko:  For my and Touga-sama's future, I will fight.

It's not raining so it must be a symbol.
Anthy has a cool umbrella, doesn't she? But what's important is that she has her own umbrella. This represents having one's own life and not allowing anyone to control it. This is something Keike doesn't have but yearns for.


Keiko:  You should know well what kind of girl Nanami is.
Keiko:  She doesn't even think of a girl like me as a person.
Keiko:  Knowing that, I've been serving her anyway.

While she's saying this you can see a spinning umbrella, I think it shows that Keiko has (always) had several inner conflicts about serving Nanami like that. This is because while it's spinning, the location of the yellow sector changes, thus it means that Keiko didn't always know how to feel about Nanami.

After this there's a scene where the umbrellas take flight during the duel. Including the red one. This can be explained by the songlyrics and the theme of this episode. (Damn. I only wanted to talk about the umbrellas... now I have to take other stuff too. )

I suppose the Shadow girls sum up what you also hear in the duel song later on.

C-ko:  Extra! Extra! Extra!
C-ko:  Any bad insects here? Any bad insects here?
C-ko:  Oh, it's Namahage! (an ogre-like demon)
C-ko:  No, I'm a mantis. Snipsnipsnip!
C-ko:  Everyone, hurry up and run!
C-ko:  Snipsnipsnip!
C-ko:  Run! Run!
C-ko:  Snipsnipsnipsnip!
C-ko:  Run! Runrunrun!
C-ko:  Snipsnipnipsnipsnipsnisnipsnips!
C-ko:  Runrunrunrurunrunrun!
C-ko:  Damn, just running away won't fix this. Take this insecticide!
C-ko:  Can't breathe, snip...
C-ko:  We're gonna die, too!
C-ko:  It's a curse...

There are at least two ways to look at this. In the end it still comes down to Nanami's and Keiko's relationship. In both cases either of the two compares the other to an insect -- a pest. Firstly, Nanami thinks of Keiko as an insect that needs to be eliminated after she finds out what she did with Touga (well, it was just an umbrella... o.O). Keiko, on the other hand, thinks Nanami is like an annoying insect since she treated her like scum. And what does she do? She attempts to leave her (and also everyone else) behind by becoming a black rose duelist. This is what the running away and escaping most likely refers to (both in the shadow play and the duel song).

By leaving everyting behind she can start living the way she wants to. Remember when all the umbrellas took flight during the duel? Anthy's umbrella was among them too. This means that Nanami, as well as anyone else, would mean nothing to her when she attempts to take control of her dreams.


Anyway, continuing with the duel:


Keiko:  With this sword, I will attain the great power.
Keiko:  And then, I will kill that girl!
Keiko:  I'll kill that Nanami who stands between Touga-sama and me!
Keiko:  That's right. The real troublesome insect is Nanami!

She slashes the yellow part in half. Obviously, this means that she wants to end her servitude under Nanami. She wants to start living her own life (which involves Touga, too). Notice how in the beginning of the duel she swore to kill the Rose Bride and now it's as if she changed her mind and wants to go after Nanami instead. I also think that this is why she loses the duel on an idealistic level. The way she approaches making her dreams come true is quite low and negative. Her hate and misery are the main reasons why she (and all the other black rose duelists) acts so selflishly. In order to make her dreams a reality she has to overcome that negativity.

Right after Keiko slashes that umbrella, Utena takes flight along with the umbrellas (who would've thought she could fly! ).

By this point however, I've always been thinking that her duel is over (see what I said above). What follows this scene is that the power of Dios manifests in Utena as always and Keiko loses the duel. Anyway, back to the screenshot, you can see Utena in the air with those umbrellas. For Keiko, this must be symbolic since it shows how everyone disappears from her. The conflict is right here too, remember what I said about Keiko being bound to Nanami? Keiko hopes she can achieve her goal even if she's out of Nanami's control, but sadly she's not right. The reality and dreams collide here and she is defeated by this.

Ok that's all, if this made any sense or if anyone else can add something, I'd be very glad.

Also, Razara, I'll be looking forward to seeing the SKU opening analysis! I've been thinking of putting down my interpretation on those too. I'll take the ending theme (the third one) then.

Maarika wrote:

Keiko Symbolism

By the way, I think it might be orange because that's the color of her hair clips.


Edit: I just thought that I should mention something... I'll explain it by using an example from episode 19.

Tatsuya: "'She (Wakaba) hasn't changed a bit from when I knew her.' 'The times when she seems the happiest...' Tenjou-san, it's when she's with you.'"
For this example, I've broken this quote up into three parts. As he said the first line, it showed him saying that line, in the second, it showed Chu-Chu sleeping. In the third part, when he said, "Tenjou-san, it's when she's with you," it shows Anthy smiling. Because it showed Anthy as he said that, one could assume that it means that Anthy is happiest when she's with Utena.

This symbolism actually shows up a lot. It's actually rather annoying, because say you were debating with someone that Anthy is really happiest whenever she's with Utena. You couldn't defend your point by saying, "She's happiest when she's with Utena because it showed her while Tatsuya was saying this!" (Have I brought this up before...?) It's implied, but it's subtle.

***


The problem with this episode is that it’s based late enough in the series that there’s an insane amount of symbolism. The first season has a lot of symbolism, the second season has even more symbolism, and the last season makes my head hurt. They fit as much symbolism in it as they can. I can tell when something is symbolic, but I can’t always figure out what it means. (Either because I don’t understand the character or plot well enough, or because I just don’t feel like putting thought into it.) Oh, and please ignore the subtitles.



The scene begins with a bunch of students who are looking up at… The treetops? Actually, they’re looking at Kozue hanging off of a ledge with a nest in her hand, but it shows the treetops first because Kozue’s name means treetops. Miki’s name means trunk. Basically, they’re two parts of a whole. Neither can survive without the other. The reason why Kozue is the treetops is because it gives her a better perspective of the world. Because she isn’t innocent, she’s able to see things that Miki can’t. They have the same eyes, yet they both see the world in a very different way.



You can tell that she’s scared by the way she’s shaking, but other than that, she seems to have no trouble holding onto the ledge. It isn’t until Miki comes along that she falls. The fact that she has fallen from the treetops relates her to a baby bird that has fallen out of its nest. When a baby bird falls out of its nest, the mother won’t take it back if someone touches it. (Actually, most species of birds don’t have a good enough sense of smell for that, but let’s pretend they do.) The concept of her falling relates to her past, and whatever it was that caused their parents to abandon them. Though she was already on edge, it was Miki that caused her to fall all together.



Random Girl-A: “Boy, she really caused some excitement.”
Random Girl-B: “But I wonder why she did it in the first place.”
As Random Girl-B says that, it shows that Anthy is carrying the box of baby birds, which is an indirect way of saying that that’s why she did it.
Random Girl-C: “It happened when she heard they’re cutting the tree down after school today. She suddenly jumped out the window to save a nest full of wild birds.”
We see that Miki is carrying Kozue on his back. Miki looks angry, and she looks sad. Inside of the nest are two baby birds, which symbolizes Miki and Kozue. By rescuing the birds, it means that she was trying to look out for the two of them.
Random Girl-A: “That’s the thing about Kozue. She’s usually so cool, then once in a while she does something weird like this.”
This line implies that this is something unusual for her to do. Though she may not always act as though she cares about Miki, she still tries to look out for him.
Miki: “It’s really humid out. Could you not lean so hard?
Kozue: “It’s more comfortable for me.”
Unlike before, Kozue is now smiling as she presses her chest into Miki’s back. His protests against this show his reluctancy to become close with her, and Kozue doesn’t mind at all that what she’s doing is making him uncomfortable.
Utena: “You shouldn’t have been so reckless. Your brother really worries about you, you know.”
Kozue: “Aw, are you worried about me, Big Brother?”
Miki: “I said don’t lean so hard!”
The four of them walk through the Sunlit Garden, which has turned to seed. That garden was something precious to him, yet it wilted away. He’s afraid that something could happen to Kozue, though he is still reluctant to get close to her again.



When they get back to their house, Miki apologizes for having Utena and Anthy carry their bags all this way. Because he had to carry Kozue, she relates to the bags, and so he is actually apologizes on her behalf. (Confusing, isn’t it?) “Now that we have them home, what do we do with them?” Kozue is the only person we can see as he says this. He sounds as though he would rather not have the birds here at all, which she interprets as him not wanting her to be there. Anthy explains to Miki how to take care of the baby birds. Kozue does not think that Miki can take care of himself, but with Anthy in his life, he doesn’t need her to watch out for him. The way that Chu-Chu floats around is rather unusual. In Japan, rather than saying that your nose will grow when you lie, you’re supposed to “swallow a blowfish,” aren’t you? That could be why we see this several times in the series.



Kozue: “Thank you. But seeing how we brought you all this way, the sweet little sister will now politely disappear. Enjoy yourselves.”
She leaves them alone, since Miki has Anthy, she would only get in the way. Miki, once again, looks very annoyed with her behavior. She notices a letter on the table, and asks if it’s from, “that person.” A flashback begins of the two of them as young children. Their parents are there, and their room is covered with a veil, sheltering them as though it were a nest box. The veil is closed when the two of them leave. When it shows their mother walking away, their father is already gone, implying that he was the first to leave. Miki explains to them that the letter is from their mother, and Utena comments on how she envies things like that because she doesn’t have any parents.


Kozue: “We don’t need parents. We’re wild animals, after all.”
The term “wild animals,” refers to how they do not have anyone to take care of them, and are therefore not domesticated. An animal raised by humans would act in a way that is considered proper, but a wild animal would only act the way that the way that it has to in order to survive. They have to take care of themselves, and this makes them wild animals.



Utena: “Hey, do you think this is the garden?”
Anthy: “Hmm? What do you mean?”
Utena: “The sunlit garden. You know, from the title of Miki’s song.”
Anthy: “Perhaps. But that garden existed in his mind, right?”
Utena: “Miki said he and Kozue played the piano together when they were little. He told us that.”
Anthy: “Yes, that’s true.”
Utena: “Was it in this garden? It’s all gone to seed.”
Anthy: “It’s just a memory now.”
Utena: “Maybe you’re right, but I was expecting something more…”
Akio: “Expecting more what?”
Anthy: “Who knows? What did she mean? Even I don’t know.”
The world seen through the eyes of someone who is not innocent is drastically different from the world of someone who is innocent. Just as Miki, in his youth, never thought of his garden as something that could disappear one day, Utena has the same childish belief that that memory would still be beautiful after all this time. Anthy and Akio cannot understand the way she thinks, because neither of them are innocent.



Akio: “What do you think of her?”
Anthy: “In what way?”
Akio: “What do you think of her? Tell me!”
Anthy: “The teacup broke.”
Utena: “Akio-san? You in here?”
Akio: “Yes, over here! What’s up?”
Utena: “It’s nothing important, but… Am I interrupting some private brother-sister thing?”
Akio: “Interrupting? I consider the three of us to be practically family. You can be as open as you like here.”
Just as there are things that Akio and Anthy cannot understand because they aren’t innocent, there are things that Utena can’t understand because she is innocent. Rather than suspecting what was going on between of them, she thinks nothing of it. In this scene, Anthy symbolizes Miki, and Akio symbolizes Kozue. This displays Kozue’s jealousy and possessiveness, and it also relates her behavior to that of an over protective father. Fathers tend to be very picky about who their daughters date, because they think that their daughters may not realize what kind of things relationships lead to, and because they have a good understanding of what that boy might be thinking, because they’ve thought the same things at some point in their lives. (Not that this relates to Akio and Anthy, obviously.) The teacup is an interesting symbol. Basically, it’s something that broke, and even though it wasn’t her fault, she ended up having to pick up the pieces anyway. The broken teacup could refer to their broken family life.



Anthy: “My brother is like that. Maybe because he’s an adult. He’s more like my father.”
Utena: “A father… Do you think fathers and mothers always care about their children like Miki said?”
Anthy: “That’s probably due to genetics.”
Utena: “That’s a harsh way to put it.”
Anthy: “Forgive me.”
Utena: “You don’t have to apologize.”
When Utena says, “A father,” it abruptly shows two flashbacks of Kozue, which implies that this relates to her. Anthy says parents only care about their children because of genetics, just as Miki and Kozue wonder if their parents only act as though they care because they feel obliged to do so.

(I’m having trouble explaining the student council meeting. Sorry.)



Miki: “Yes, it was in mother’s letter. No, Kozue and I aren’t against it. Father, that’s up to you. We won’t be able to make the wedding, but we’ll at least send a telegram. Huh? With who? No, never mind about our new mother. Never mind about it. Father?”
Anthy: “Never mind. I’d be rude to start calling myself mother so soon.”
This scene is probably one of the biggest WTF moments in Utena. Personally, I still think that Miki did have a new stepmother, but that it wasn’t really Anthy.
The veil covering Anthy has a treetop pattern, which implies that Anthy symbolizes Kozue. Perhaps this is just my imagination, but the phone looks like a tree trunk. Miki sees Anthy as a replacement for his sister, just as their father is replacing their mother with a stepmother.


I hope that I didn't forget anything...

Last edited by Razara (02-17-2007 08:36:14 PM)

Razara wrote:

This scene is probably one of the biggest WTF moments in Utena. Personally, I still think that Miki did have a new stepmother, but that it wasn’t really Anthy.
The veil covering Anthy has a treetop pattern, which implies that Anthy symbolizes Kozue. Perhaps this is just my imagination, but the phone looks like a tree trunk. Miki sees Anthy as a replacement for his sister, just as their father is replacing their mother with a stepmother.

I thought of that too, and I never really thought Anthy was the new Kaoru step-mother, but I felt that the implication still had something to do with Anthy (and Akio) being more involved with motivating and manipulating than one originally thought...
I'm not going to argue it or debate it, but I'm just saying.

I'll post up pictures if needed, but does anybody have the sources/symbolism for the conversation Nanami and Utena had in one episode where the statue kept changing? The only 2 I can remember, and knew at all, was The Rape of Persephone and The Town Musicians of Bremen... And even though I knew what they were I have no idea what they would have to do with Utena and Nanami's conversation...

My memory's blurry. Heh.

Maarika wrote:

edit: I thought something was missing from your post, Razara. The nestbox!

That's because the nestbox doesn't come in until the second part of the episode.



I’m going to skip ahead to the car scene. Kozue explains to Miki that she’s on a date with Akio, and although Miki acts as though he doesn’t care, the car accelerates in a way that implies he’s upset with her for this. She asks if he loves Anthy, and then says that Akio can help him. Miki asks what brought this on, and she responds by saying, “I’m always completely honest with my feelings. I never lie. Don’t you trust me?” For a person to remain innocent, they have to lie to themselves and pretend that their feelings and desires don’t exist. Kozue never lies to herself or other people about such things.


Kozue: “When everything around you is impure, you’ll have to become impure as well. The only way to get what you want is to lose your purity.”
Miki: “To get what I want…”
Once purity is lost, it can never return. Miki wants to return to that garden of their childhood innocence, but what he doesn’t realize is that Kozue can never be innocent again. He can, however, lose his purity, and become like Kozue.




When Kozue takes off her tie, the wind pulls it back so that it covers Miki’s eye. He then starts to imagine himself in the driver seat of Akio’s car, and Anthy reclining in the passenger seat, smiling at him suggestively. When his fantasy ends, he accuses Akio of being the one who made Saionji duel, and seducing Touga. His first reaction to his own fantasy is to blame it on someone else.


When the car ride is over, the two of them are finally working together to build a nest box. Their previous home life has been destroyed, and even though their parents will never come back, they’re working to rebuild what they’ve lost together  Notice how Miki is at the bottom, like a trunk, and that Kozue is at the top, like the treetops.



A-Ko: “Do you know? Do you know? Have you heard the news? Miss, isn’t it about time you quit?”
B-Ko: “Ooh... I’m betting my whole purse! Everything on black!”
A-Ko: “Very well… Oh, too bad! It was red…! Miss, didn’t you say you’d never gambled before and that you hated it?”
B-Ko: “It’s your fault for making me give it a try! Hold on! I’m gonna clean out my bank account!”
A-Ko: “Sucker.”
Gambling is an illegal, and generally very risky activity. B-Ko, without having ever tried it, insisted that she hated it, but became obsessed with it once A-Ko got her to try it, seemingly by manipulating her into doing it. It’s easy to assume that this relates to Miki and Kozue.

I love this duel, but I don’t have a complete analysis on this duel song. Why not? Just for the fun of it, try to figure out what this line means:
“Stop! The birds and the fish are interconnected!
Stop! The egg and the bed are cheating each other!
Stop! The ancient dance of ship and coach!
Stop! Send the sea and the waterfall ahead!”
I do have an interpretation for that line, but only because the sheer absurdity of it was annoying me to death. However, this is a duel song that I could interpret, but I would have to do hours of research first. Maybe some day I will.



Though Kozue is wearing a Rose Bride dress, it’s instantly made clear that she’s the one in control by the way she calls Miki over to her, and says when to start the duel. The two of them start to battle. When Kozue appears in the car the car, Utena says, “I thought you and I were friends now!” Miki responds by saying, “Your sword will never defeat my sword! Today, I will make the Rose Bride mine!” Ever since the car ride, Miki has had a change in heart about his views on purity, but as Utena says at the end of the duel, he is still fighting with “a child’s sword.”



As the duel continues, we see Kozue riding in the car again, only this time with Anthy sitting in the drives seat. Utena doesn’t notice them. This isn’t due to some sort of plot hole where only Miki can see them because Utena's comments would be inconvenient. The reason why she can’t see them is because she is pure, and what’s about to happen is one of those things that the innocent can’t understand. Miki, however, who has changed ever since the car ride, and so he notices them.



“They say those engaged to you get amazing power.” The seat that Anthy is in reclines back a little. Anthy symbolizes Miki. Though she is the one who’s in the driver’s seat, Kozue is still the one in control, and she is unable to resist her advances.


“What kind of ‘amazing power’?” The seat reclines back further, and Kozue moves closer to her. Miki is losing the battle as he yells, “Kozue! What are you doing?!”



“Show me that power.” Kozue is now on top of Anthy, who unable to move. Her hand is clinging to the side of the car, shaking slightly as though she were trying to resist, but it unable to do so. When the seat reclines all the way, her hand stops shaking. She has finally stops resisting and gives into Kozue’s advances. Miki calls Kozue’s name once again as he continues to fight a losing battle, he's losing his battle to resist Kozue just as Anthy is.



“Pay attention or you’ll lose.” She ducks out of sight to kiss Anthy. The Power of Dios is summoned, and Miki loses the duel.


Utena: “A child’s sword, huh? I wonder what made Miki suddenly want to duel me.”
Anthy: “Who knows?”
Utena: “But, Miki is more…”
Anthy: “More… what?”
Once again, Utena is expecting something pure and beautiful to stay that way forever.


At the end of the episode, the tables have now turned. Miki is on a higher level, because he does understand the things that the innocent can’t understand, but he has chosen not to participate in them anyway, hence the reason why Kozue calls him a coward. Kozue is now below him because she is unable to see the reason why Miki has chosen to do this.



My next interpretation is going to be of the Ruka episodes. I advise that you bring a snack, because I'm going to ramble on about those episodes more than Seraphitus rambles on about God. (Haha. Just kidding. That would be impossible.) Seriously, though, I have a lot to say, and I need to say everything at once.

KissingT.Kiryuu wrote:

ive finally read like, everything in this rather interesting thread but i wonder if perhaps, you over analyze. the way one person sees something isnt nesicaritly how everyone will see it, of course... but still

Indeed, but that is interpretation, not over-analyzation. These are everyone's explanations of how they see the symbols to be, not what the symbols ARE exactly. None of us can say for certain what everything was meant to be. I doubt even Ikuhara knows about some of them.

Last edited by dollface (06-09-2010 05:09:46 PM)

KissingT.Kiryuu wrote:

but i wonder if perhaps, you over analyze.

I wouldn't doubt it. I always assume that there's a deeper meaning to almost everything, because there have been many occasions that have given me reasons to think that way, such as Nanami's version of the egg metaphor that Maarika mentioned. What seemed as though it was only meant for humor relief actually has a deeper meaning. It's easy to overlook things in Utena, but we have to keep in mind that everything that happens was planned out.

The way I interpret things is just how I see them. My word is not the definite answer, but just an opinion.

Persephone wrote:

I've always wanted to know if chu chu represented anything,

Chu-Chu tends to play a big role in symbolism. The way he acts in each episode can usually be interpreted to relate to a character, such as his relationship with the frog.

His major symbol, however, is Anthy. For one thing, they actually look quite similar. One of the most interesting comparisons is how Chu-Chu relates to Anthy in the song, "Missing Link." If I'm not mistaken, Anthy is the Missing Link. (After all, when that song plays, it is not an official duel, but merely the song that plays while Anthy is getting stabbed with millions of swords.) The missing link is the link between man and ape, and Chu-Chu just happens to be a monkey.

Ah, but the question I'd like to ask is how do you do it? :3 Not just you Razara (thought your analisis blows me away every time), but everyone else who had made me spazgasm with their in-depth, scene to scene explanations. I praise SKU to my friends for it's symbolism and deep meaning, yet I praise something that I am completely blind to. I look at things and just don't see it. Does it take pratice, knowledge of things that symbolise other things, something else? Or is it just me, giving my inteligence more credit than it deserves? d:

No matter how you do it, don't stop.