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#1 | Back to Top01-29-2017 04:11:57 PM

RoseandRelease
Juri Jeerer
Registered: 10-12-2013
Posts: 45
Website

AD Apocalypse - a second verse?

There's a 2014 album by JA Seazer available on spotify called Ootori No Kuruhi, the End of the World which has a version of Zettai Unmei Mokshiroku that I've never heard anyone mention anywhere else - most interestingly, it appears to have a second verse!? Possibly the physical CD would have a lyric booklet - it would be very interesting to know what they are (unless I've missed something and the verse appears in another version of the song)

It appears to be a live album, but I don't know enough about Seazer's career outside of Utena to know where the other songs are from.
Someone uploaded the first few songs onto youtube here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-ErRfu_HAQ (which includes ADA and a couple of great arrangements of Angelic Creation Namely Light and I am an Imaginary Living Body)

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#2 | Back to Top01-31-2017 02:08:09 PM

itavin
Sunlit Gardener (Prelude)
From: is-real
Registered: 10-21-2016
Posts: 165

Re: AD Apocalypse - a second verse?

I just listened to it and I love the version they're playing in this clip, its really unique and fun to hear. Also, I think the other two songs that were played after zettai unmei mokoshiroku are also in the utena ost, But the third one I've had trouble finding where I can hear it...


If you ever feel like wanting to ruin your life... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game)

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#3 | Back to Top01-31-2017 03:19:10 PM

Arale
Ballgoer
From: collective human consciousness
Registered: 12-07-2014
Posts: 145
Website

Re: AD Apocalypse - a second verse?

Wow!!

Sadly that's all I have to say. Even if I knew more Japanese I feel like this would be hard to make out.


im a shadow play girl irl

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#4 | Back to Top02-01-2017 06:47:59 AM

Koshernova
Touga Topper
From: City 7
Registered: 08-22-2010
Posts: 54
Website

Re: AD Apocalypse - a second verse?

amazing find! It indeed sounds like a live album (the second CD has bits where the MCs are talking).

Tracks 2-4 are in Utena, namely Zettai Unmei, Angelic Creation, Namely Light (Juri's Duel) and I'm an Immaginary Living Body (Mikage's duel).

I just cross-referenced the tracklisting with all Utena OSTs, including OST 7 which is mostly unused Seazer work, and aside from those three tracks I can't find the others. I have yet to listen to the rest of the album so it's possible other tracks are from the Utena soundtracks under different names. But honestly, I doubt it, since Seazer has a huge body of work to draw from.

I recommend checking this thread where I was recently asking about Seazer work: http://forums.ohtori.nu/viewtopic.php?id=4223

In it we can see that many duel songs, as well as Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku, are pre-Utena work by Seazer. I'd say about 1/3 of Seazer's utena work at *least* precedes the series. I think Angelic Creation, Namely Light is meant to be one of his favourites because I've noticed it features in numerous versions (it has a karaoke version in OST 4 for instance).

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#5 | Back to Top04-11-2017 03:51:52 PM

At Times, Love Is
Touga Topper
Registered: 04-29-2016
Posts: 59

Re: AD Apocalypse - a second verse?

I found out what this is about!
This song did not originally have a second verse. However, shortly after Utena, there was an... event... that was a collaboration between Seazer and Ikuhara, a one time thing that did not get a CD, called Jyuutaism, somewhat connected to Utena but I'm not sure to what degree, and the lyrics to that are at http://www.geocities.co.jp/Hollywood-Ko … mkasi.html. This is the source of the second verse to Absolute Destiny Apocalypse. I found a couple of different sources in Japanese (which I can link to if someone wants) saying that this verse, unlike the first verse, actually was written with Utena in mind.

The lyrics sung on the CD that includes this song... sound very different from how they're written on this page, in several places... but the first verse also isn't sung as it's written, so that's not much of a surprise.
Here is my first translation--based only on how the lyrics are written. Later, I would like to attempt to figure out what they are singing when it's different and how that would affect the meaning, but this is what I've done already. The written lyrics are actually mostly straightforward; the only line I'm not sure about is the "I am breaking twenty-one" one.
Absolute destiny apocalypse
Absolute destiny apocalypse

Oriental origin, Orpheus, androgynous mystery record

Absolute destiny apocalypse
Absolute destiny apocalypse

I, Protogonos, lip-egg, apocalypse

The seven me’s from the iron egg,
The seven mysteries from the world egg

I am breaking twenty-one
My I, my Prakriti

Illusions accompanying absence
__ binding egg child,
Astronomy advance notice fusion
Both sexes eternity principle

Heaven and earth, day and night, sun and moon
Men and women, androgynous: apocalypse

Mokushi kushimo
Shimoku kumoshi
Moshiku shikumo
Mokushi kushimo
Shimoku kumoshi
Moshiku shikumo

This seems to have been heavily inspired by Orphic cosmology and  their creation myth, which I don't know about. That even explains the "oriental origin" line, as the Wikipedia page on Phanes/Protogonos says, "Scholars have suggested that Orphism is 'un-Greek' even 'Asiatic' in conception, because of its inherent dualism."
The __ is because the page has asterisks instead of the kanji for that word... some of the other songs have more of those. I guess the person making the page was working from an incomplete source...

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#6 | Back to Top04-12-2017 09:46:30 AM

RoseandRelease
Juri Jeerer
Registered: 10-12-2013
Posts: 45
Website

Re: AD Apocalypse - a second verse?

Ahh I love it thankyou so much for translating!!
I guess the motif of Orphism fits in well with Utena because it was centered around the belief in reincarnation of souls in a repeating cycle which must be broken out of... It would fit the idea of Ohtori as reprisentitive of Hades as well. Phanes' wikipedia page also says that his name meant to shine or bring light and that he was sometimes worshiped as a god who died and was reincarnated repededly, which makes me wonder if he's supposed to be associated with Dios in this song.

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#7 | Back to Top04-13-2017 10:21:37 PM

At Times, Love Is
Touga Topper
Registered: 04-29-2016
Posts: 59

Re: AD Apocalypse - a second verse?

That is all fascinating! I posted the translation very soon after making it, so I'd only done cursory research, but I looked into it more today and I think you're right. Actually, I'm quite struck by how closely it resembles Gnosticism, which I have extensively researched because of Utena.
I'm struck by how Wikipedia says Protogonos is also known as Erikapaeus, meaning power, and Metis--which links to an article about a goddess. Protogonos is said to be both male and female and Anthy's closest counterpart in Gnosticism is Sophia, the wisdom principle--Metis means thought and is a goddess of wisdom and cunning.
Basically I think Protogonos might represent Dios, Akio, and Anthy, the way Abraxas was believed to be both Christ and the devil.
It's also worth noting that Orphism uses the symbol of the World Egg quite extensively. It's not the source of the "The egg is the world" quote, but it's relevant to it.

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#8 | Back to Top04-13-2017 10:46:08 PM

At Times, Love Is
Touga Topper
Registered: 04-29-2016
Posts: 59

Re: AD Apocalypse - a second verse?

Something I found on Theoi: "Indeed, in this theology too [the Hieronyman Rhapsodies], this Khronos (Time), the serpent has offspring, three in number : moist Aither (Aether, Light)--I quote--, unbounded Khaos (Chaos), and as a third, misty Erebos (Darkness) . . . Among these, he says, Khronos (Chronos, Time) generated an egg--this tradition too making it generated by Khronos, and born ‘among’ these because it is from these that the third Intelligible triad is produced [Protogonos-Phanes]. What is this triad, then? The egg; the dyad of the two natures inside it--male and female--[Ouranos (Uranus) and Gaia (Gaea), Heaven and Earth], and the plurality of the various seeds between; and thirdly an incorporeal god [Phanes] with golden wings on his shoulders, bulls' heads growing upon his flanks, and on his head a monstrous serpent, presenting the appearance of all kinds of animal forms . . . And the third god of the third triad this theology too celebrates as Protogonos (First-Born) [Phanes], and it calls him Zeus the order of all and of the whole world, wherefore he is also called Pan (All). So much this second genealogy supplies concerning the Intelligible principles."
Basically Protogonos is thought to be three-natured.

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#9 | Back to Top04-13-2017 10:51:30 PM

At Times, Love Is
Touga Topper
Registered: 04-29-2016
Posts: 59

Re: AD Apocalypse - a second verse?

"This Herakles [referrin to Chronos, not... Hercules. the names are confusin) generated a huge egg, which, being filled full, by the force of its engenderer was broken in two from friction. Its crown became Ouranos (Uranus, Heaven), and what had sunk downwards, Gaia (Gaea, Earth). There also came forth an incorporeal god [Protogonos-Phanes]."
Sophia in the Gnostic tradition was also thought to have sunk into matter as a result of her fall from grace.

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