You are not logged in.

Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top01-07-2007 02:34:05 PM

Birgy23
Miki Molester
From: California
Registered: 12-16-2006
Posts: 30
Website

Why didn't Utena let Miki Win?

I've been dwelling on this for a while, and it was sort of brought up in the Utena/Anthy thread, but I still kind of wonder why she didn't let him win the duel.

I mean, this was technically only her 3rd duel, and she was pretty ready to let Saoinji win at first even though she seen him slap Anthy around. Plus she knew that he liked Anthy, and she still wasn't invested into the duels enough to think of Anthy as a really true, good friend. Unless a few weeks had passed between the duels instead of a few days, and maybe there was a time for the two to grow, but you know what i mean. This was the first duel that invested 2 episodes to work up to, and there must have been more of a reason besides showing how Miki grew to like Anthy so much. Or maybe I'm reading too much/too little into it. Anyway, anyone care to help me figure this out?

Offline

 

#2 | Back to Top01-07-2007 02:40:44 PM

Shmeecherz
Touga Topper
From: The land of...pie... -_-
Registered: 12-25-2006
Posts: 51
Website

Re: Why didn't Utena let Miki Win?

Well...I think it's all a metter of integrity. She didn't necisarilly want the rose bride but it was her duty to do the best in a duel. Also....it could just be because she's Utena and, UTENA DON'T TAKE DIVES!!!! XO


I wish I wish I was a fish 8D

-JOIN THE CRAZY COLLEGE RP ON THE RP THREAD!-

Offline

 

#3 | Back to Top01-07-2007 05:58:53 PM

Xu Yuan
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 189

Re: Why didn't Utena let Miki Win?

This is really all thanks to Anthy's manipulation's. There are some thing's told to Miki that are never told to Utena...

Utena:  How about it, Himemiya?
Utena:  Do you like younger boys?
Anthy:  Well, I am your bride, Utena-sama.
Utena:  Hey, Himemiya. Would you stop saying "I am your bride, Utena-sama" all the time?
Anthy:  But still, I am engaged to you, Utena-sama.
Utena:  Now look!
Utena:  It's not like I agreed that you're my bride!
Utena:  It's crazy to make a girl a bride of the winner of a duel.
Utena:  I won't stand for a system that ignores a person's personality!

This is the first example of prodding we see. She doesn't often act this way when she's not around Miki. This is all to get him to duel... of course Utena is quite oblivious to this.

Then there's this...

Touga:  Your sister is as pretty as you are.
Touga:  And just as agreeable...
Anthy:  Good morning.
Touja:  If something is really important to you, seize it and protect it with your own hands,
Touja:  lest someone should steal it, Micky.
Touja:  Even if the Student Council were dissolved, there'd still be Duelists after the Rose Bride.
Touja:  Only the one who is engaged to her can do as he pleases with her

It's no coincidence that Anthy was standing right behind him as this all came to a conclusion it was used to reinforce. Not to mention it's also a symbol of caged place, a rock and a hard place. Touga is in front of him and Anthy is behind him either way he is trapped. Undoubtedly in the beginning Anthy worked closely with Touga until the first four duels had been orchestrated. That's when Anthy realizes she's losing power but... i'll explain that a little later.

The if one of that was convincing enough this is just in your face blatant manipulation...


Miki:  Do you like playing the piano?
Anthy:  Yes.
Miki:  Would you play for me again?
Anthy:  If Utena-sama allows me...
Miki:  How about tomorrow?
Anthy:  If Utena-sama allows me...
Miki:  Well, is Tenjou-sempai's permission required for everything you do?
Anthy:  Certainly, since I am the Rose Bride.
Miki:  Well then...
Miki:  if Tenjou-sempai told you to quit the piano, would you?
Anthy:  Of course.
Anthy:  The one I'm engaged to can do as he pleases with me.

If Utena allows me to... she doesn't seem to hold this in regards to anyone she simply presses button's to make the duelists do what she wants.


Miki:  Don't worry.
Miki:  I'll protect that quality of your playing.
Anthy:  Thank you, thank you.

Anthy's undoubtedly thinking, "Hook, line, and sinker."

IF she was truly loyal to Utena she would have said something like "That isn't neccessary." But this is just what's needed to make Miki feel like a "Prince" to save the damsel whom is bound to another's will. A stunning illusion, truly well done. Utena finds out about none of this...

Then there's this, the final key that was needed to turn.

Miki:  Her eyes are telling me...
Miki:  that she wants to be set free

Again a delusion set by earlier, Utena thinks he is selfish, which he is, which is revealed very well when he loses "Will there be no one to shine for me?" This must not look too "innocent" to Utena, probably glad she didn't let him win. Though Anthy's next lines give hope, and undoubtedly she feels regret for messing with Miki's mind.

Last edited by Xu Yuan (01-07-2007 06:51:46 PM)


Please check out the MTG Utena Set Progress we have made at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?id=o … 103070805#

Offline

 

#4 | Back to Top01-07-2007 08:16:57 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: Why didn't Utena let Miki Win?

Xu Yuan wrote:

This is really all thanks to Anthy's manipulation's. There are some thing's told to Miki that are never told to Utena...
(etc)

You've done a great job answering the question of why Miki challenges Utena, but the question that was asked was why Utena doesn't let Miki beat her.  That said, I do think the first dialogue you mention sheds some light on the subject.  Anthy's having that conversation for two reasons.  She's manipulating Miki, yes, but moreover, she's reinforcing Utena's investment in her.  Utena already thinks of Anthy as her "project," and this dialogue reminds Utena of how badly Anthy needs to be saved.  I don't think there was a lot of risk Utena would let Miki win anyway -- her second duel with Saionji pretty much put an end to the "Utena loses on purpose" contingency -- but Anthy plays on Utena's prince complex constantly to keep Utena in the game.

Offline

 

#5 | Back to Top01-07-2007 09:08:41 PM

Xu Yuan
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 189

Re: Why didn't Utena let Miki Win?

Uh... right good point, I did stumble far off the subject, the only thing I could figure aside from what you mentioned is a matter of allowing the Student Council to have their way with Anthy, not in that context but allow them to use her, and as you said, if she would loseto miki there would be no princess left, there also wouldn't be a gril striving to be "normal" underneath the hated facade. One thing Miki never says to Utena is that he would allow Anthy to become a normal girl. Though he does bring this to the Student Council, never to Utena.


Please check out the MTG Utena Set Progress we have made at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?id=o … 103070805#

Offline

 

#6 | Back to Top01-07-2007 09:45:25 PM

Ivy-chan
Unfulfilled Juror
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 232

Re: Why didn't Utena let Miki Win?

Along with the aforementioned manipulation by Anthy...


Miki:  The Rose Bride will be mine,
Miki:  even if I have to hurt you!

That line must have been a deciding factor. Not a good way to introduce a duel, and definitely not something Utena would want to hear from someone she would entrust Anthy to.


If I have seen farther than others, it is because I was standing on the shoulders of giants.
-Isaac Newton

Offline

 

#7 | Back to Top01-07-2007 10:06:19 PM

KissingT.Kiryuu
Hentai Hero!!!
From: Somewhere and Nowhere
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4090
Website

Re: Why didn't Utena let Miki Win?

After much thought and setting the smoke detectors off with my smoking brain i have come to the absolute perfect answer to why Utena would not let Miki win.....

but if i were to even begin explaining it my head would explode into nothingness.

so you will have to just deal with...

Cause Utena has a huge EGO!


http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q278/SisterElla09/mrsaturnDance.gif

Offline

 

#8 | Back to Top01-07-2007 10:09:16 PM

Ragnarok
Caption Captor
From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4472
Website

Re: Why didn't Utena let Miki Win?

I think it all comes down to Miki falling back on the dueling game in the first place. Utena doesn't know the specifics which led Miki to challenge her but, as she states earlier in the storyline, she hates the very idea that Anthy is treated as a posession. Miki parrots this to Touga, rather than agree openly with Utena, and in any event he's manipulated into doing just what Utena is so adamant against. Even though Utena's still not thrilled with her position regarding Anthy, she's now feeling a responsibility to make things better. Losing to anyone, no matter how ideal they may appear, is supporting the system that Utena despises.

Basically, Utena considers throwing the second duel simply because it's her only chance to step out of the crazy world she found herself in. She got mixed up in something she doesn't understand and losing to Saionji will make it all go away. As soon as she decides to win that duel she's taking the responsibility of saving Anthy; at that point there's no going back.


http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/RagnarokIII/spyschool.jpg

Offline

 

#9 | Back to Top01-08-2007 12:16:51 AM

ShatteredMirror
Yaoi Pet #1
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 8858

Re: Why didn't Utena let Miki Win?

I agree with everyone else who's said it that at this point it's not in Utena's nature to throw the duel, even if it's to Miki. By the time that he challenged her she'd already decided that she was going to help Anthy become a normal girl and was determined to stick it out for the long run.

Then again, I think the tone of the duel was really set by the way Miki approached it. Had he told her that he thought he could do better for Anthy than she could, she might not have gone in with the kind of resolve that she did when he referred to Anthy as the Rose Bride rather than by her name.


Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source.

Offline

 

#10 | Back to Top01-08-2007 01:44:50 AM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
Website

Re: Why didn't Utena let Miki Win?

It is true that Anthy staged things up so Miki would want to duel Utena for the Rose Bride, but in the end, the reason I believe Utena wanted to win and keep Anthy is this:

Episode 05 'The Sunny Garden - Finale' wrote:

The duel between Miki and Utena is happening and then Anthy said these fateful words:
"There! Utena-sama, go get him!"

From then on, Utena inspired by what sounded like Anthy's wish for her to win and therefore stay with her, went on to win the duel.


http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o50/spatulasama/DooDah.jpg

Offline

 

#11 | Back to Top01-08-2007 01:47:49 AM

Xu Yuan
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 189

Re: Why didn't Utena let Miki Win?

Yet if you notice, she never cheers for her like that again, after that single duel. Also if you notice it is the one duel (besides the broken blade Zantetsuken) that she wins without the Power of Dios using a move of her own. (Which oddly enough you don't see again...)


Please check out the MTG Utena Set Progress we have made at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?id=o … 103070805#

Offline

 

#12 | Back to Top01-08-2007 02:02:20 AM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
Website

Re: Why didn't Utena let Miki Win?

Xu Yuan wrote:

Yet if you notice, she never cheers for her like that again, after that single duel. Also if you notice it is the one duel (besides the broken blade Zantetsuken) that she wins without the Power of Dios using a move of her own. (Which oddly enough you don't see again...)

After the Miki duel, Utena is utterly convinced about the 'want' no the 'need' to keep on winning (not withstanding the first two Touga duels) for both Anthy's sake and her unconcious desire to be Anthy's Prince.


http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o50/spatulasama/DooDah.jpg

Offline

 

#13 | Back to Top01-08-2007 08:20:49 AM

Maarika
Someday Shiner
From: Estonia
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 2510
Website

Re: Why didn't Utena let Miki Win?

Tamago wrote:

It is true that Anthy staged things up so Miki would want to duel Utena for the Rose Bride, but in the end, the reason I believe Utena wanted to win and keep Anthy is this:

Episode 05 'The Sunny Garden - Finale' wrote:

The duel between Miki and Utena is happening and then Anthy said these fateful words:
"There! Utena-sama, go get him!"

From then on, Utena inspired by what sounded like Anthy's wish for her to win and therefore stay with her, went on to win the duel.

I think that's also part of the manipulatation. Right before Anthy says that line, see what Miki says: "I won't be beaten! She believes in me!"
I think this is the reason why Miki loses the duel, he got distracted by what Anthy said 'cause he wouldn't have thought Anthy would say something like this.


The Saionji Support Squad:
Believing in True Friendship Since 2008.

Offline

 

#14 | Back to Top01-08-2007 08:42:12 AM

Blade
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
From: Darkest Canada
Registered: 12-01-2006
Posts: 181
Website

Re: Why didn't Utena let Miki Win?

And beating Miki in that way, as opposed to the Dios Rush, ensures that Miki can be built up to be totally confident his sword can defeat Utena's later.

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB 1.2.23
© Copyright 2002–2008 PunBB
Forum styled and maintained by Giovanna and Yasha
Return to Empty Movement