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#1 | Back to Top09-06-2013 08:00:50 PM

Raze Occam
New Student
Registered: 09-04-2013
Posts: 5

Feminist Frequency Anyone?

Though Anita Sarkeesian isn't the most popular feminist on the internet right now (ahahaha) and has a shit-ton of detractors I've thought for a while that her videos might be this fandom's proverbial cup of tea.

Some examples:

"Damsels in Distress"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6p5AZp7r_Q

"Lego and Gender"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrmRxGLn0Bk

"Tropes vs. Women"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqJUxqkcnKA

If you've seen them and want to share your thoughts (positive or negative) I'd be interested.


"It's a show about penguins"

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#2 | Back to Top09-07-2013 12:13:22 AM

Kita-Ysabell
Covert Diarist
Registered: 11-18-2012
Posts: 823
Website

Re: Feminist Frequency Anyone?

Erm, no.

I feel her interpretation is really shoddy, and I hate how she seems to think that Joss Whedon constitutes a whole wave of feminism all on his very sparkly-assed own, and the way she baits her audience is atrocious.  Like, all the promotions for the series were like, "ooh, guys, let's investigate this strange new world of video games," and then she bitches when people characterize her as an outsider to the genre, criticizing it with only a minimal understanding of it, and IF THAT IMPRESSION IS WRONG, WHY DID YOU GIVE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE?!

Ugh.

Not to mention that the way the videos are organized, there is no room for in-depth criticism, she's playing a numbers game.  Which, on its own, is a decent way to approach the subject, albeit not the one her degree applies to, but she's doing it in a way that is bad science.  It's fine to be like, "here's all these examples where this thing happens in this way," but if you want to prove a trend, you have to define your variables, and state your sample size, and give some idea about how your sample relates to the population you are sampling, and define your control group, so on and so forth.  AND SHE NEVER DOES ANY OF THAT.  I don't really think her interpretation of the trends would change, it would just sound more legitimately convincing and less like sensationalist bullshit.

So as social science, it's tripe.  But she never goes into any detail, so as literary analysis, it's ALSO tripe.  I honestly get the feeling that she decided on a more populist audience because she doesn't have what it takes to get by in the academic world.

Oh my god, I think this is kismesitude.  Me < 3< Anita Sarkeesian.  WTF.

That said, the response she got was completely unreasonable, and is representative of the cumulative worst of a) the internet (particularly YouTube) and b) gaming culture.  Which is a terrible thing, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, and I'm also pissed (at the responders) because it shuts down any kind of overall reasonable criticism of her work.  Either you love her, like her, think she's a bit daft but respect her work, or are a slobbering idiot asshole.  GODDAMNIT, GUYS!  I REFUSE TO BE A SLOBBERING IDIOT!!

But I will be an asshole, because her shit is just not up to par.

Last edited by Kita-Ysabell (09-07-2013 12:13:54 AM)


"Et in Arcadio ego..."

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#3 | Back to Top09-07-2013 01:11:04 AM

Decrescent Daytripper
Best Disney Princess
Registered: 04-09-2007
Posts: 2791

Re: Feminist Frequency Anyone?

Kita-Ysabell wrote:

[T]he response she got was completely unreasonable, and is representative of the cumulative worst of a) the internet (particularly YouTube) and b) gaming culture.

Sadly, I don't think it can be considered "the... worst." It's the average, the general, run of the mill sampling of internet and/or gaming culture. It can get way worse than anything (I know of that) she got, which doesn't devalue the horribleness of the shit she got, I'm just saying those are our normative participants and it was a too common internet-communities response.


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#4 | Back to Top09-07-2013 02:09:38 AM

Valeli
Thorn of Death
Registered: 12-05-2006
Posts: 481
Website

Re: Feminist Frequency Anyone?

So as social science, it's tripe.  But she never goes into any detail, so as literary analysis, it's ALSO tripe.

Hahahaha. Viscous. I think I'm inclined to agree with your reasoning though, although I could probably use a bit more time watching that stuff before forming any super-firm opinions.

As for the worst of the internet.... unless you're on rare islands where you're experiencing the best of the internet, I think the "worst" of the internet and the "average" internet are pretty interchangeable. Sadly. My experience in "gaming culture" is super narrow (my perspective is limited to like, two games, in one genre), but I think there's definitely some issues there as well. On the whole (with a few super-cool people interspersed throughout).

Last edited by Valeli (09-07-2013 02:11:15 AM)

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#5 | Back to Top09-07-2013 06:45:01 PM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6027
Website

Re: Feminist Frequency Anyone?

I appreciate what she's trying to do, but in the one youtube vid of hers that I actually watched all the way through, I couldn't help being disappointed at the sex-negative position she took. I can see being upset by the skimpy clothes and unrealistic bodies of female characters in just about any other game, but Bayonetta was actually built around riffing on that stuff in a playful way that, to me, made it clear that the aim was a combination of parody and appreciation. To me, the message concerning sex in that game was to own your sexuality, to use it, to enjoy it, and to realize that it makes you powerful, which is something I believe should be broadcasted from freaking loudspeakers.

Taking the sex-negative position-- that girls should be covered up, that they should fear their own nudity because of what men might think of them, that they should be ashamed to be sexual creatures, that nakedness is an irresistible temptation to men-- smacks of the modesty trend in Christianity. And you know what their reasoning is?

Cover yourself. Men can't control their own thoughts and may be tempted by you. If you don't cover yourself, you deserve it if you get raped, because modesty is your armor against it.

I think we all know what I think of that. But just in case: http://ohtori.nu/forumstuff/emotes/emot-fuckoff.gif

I think a better use of that particular video would have been to appreciate the humorous celebration of sexuality that's evident in the game while analysing the reasons why this sort of behavior is condemned in real life, with a view to rape culture.


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#6 | Back to Top10-04-2013 01:33:14 AM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6027
Website

Re: Feminist Frequency Anyone?

...now I'm actually upset. We decided to give her another try, only to find that Sarkeesian slapped a great big misogyny sticker on The Void, of all things.

For those of you who don't know, The Void is basically a feminist parable; despite having damsels in distress (every female character) they also have dudes in distress (every male character) and the whole thing is basically about how patriarchy cages women "for their own good" and enslaves men, who then mutilate themselves in order to support the system. The whole point of the game is to overthrow that system! That the main character is male could be a mark against it if it wasn't for [the fact that he has to die in order to set just one of the women free]. Even the visuals call back to some very feminine imagery, the only "map" bearing a distinct resemblance to drawings of the uterus and fallopian tubes.

So, to sum up... DO YOUR FUCKING RESEARCH OR http://ohtori.nu/forumstuff/emotes/emot-fuckoff.gif

This was just one example of the issues I had with the series in question (Tropes vs. Feminism), but I won't bother to try her again. Her points are badly supported and very often taken out of context, and quite frankly I think Feminist Frequency is more in line with the sort of horribly educated SJ Warriors I prefer to avoid.


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#7 | Back to Top10-04-2013 01:49:49 AM

Giovanna
Ends of the Fandom
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8790
Website

Re: Feminist Frequency Anyone?

Yeah, she immediately lost me at that. Did she assume because there were pretty half-naked chicks that it was a damsel in distress story? Even bringing up Monkey Island as a good example of tropes being overcome didn't recover her from that.

I think the problem I had with it is that she does a lot of bitching and uses a lot of big words (often poorly), but does nothing at all to approach the reasons these tropes are so predominant, or suggest real solutions. If I want people complaining but offering no solutions I'll follow American politics.

Also, there are huge glaring gaps in her gaming awareness. Yay, she mentions indie games. Most of which can be played on a phone, which as far as I'm going to guess is the larger extent of her real involvement in gaming as a medium. That and watching her boyfriend play God of War. She briefly mentions MMOs and RPGs. Which is absurd, because where the hell do you think you're going to find the best and worst examples and inversions of any plot device but in the genre that most focuses on plot? She just doesn't come across as a sufficiently informed commentator.


Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
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#8 | Back to Top10-04-2013 03:52:00 AM

Kita-Ysabell
Covert Diarist
Registered: 11-18-2012
Posts: 823
Website

Re: Feminist Frequency Anyone?

Yasha wrote:

We decided to give her another try, only to find that Sarkeesian slapped a great big misogyny sticker on The Void, of all things.

She did what?

Yeah, somehow I missed that.

That is some pretty immense bullshit right there.

Not to mention that The Void comes from a significantly different cultural context, which doesn't mean that it can't reinforce patriarchal tropes, just that you need to give it a second look, and interpret the content from both viewer-based and producer-based perspectives.

Wait, was this one of her one-line analysis from the Tropes vs. Women series?

'Cause The Void is a strange, complicated, surreal game, and it takes way more than one line to interpret, or even make any real comment about anything that happens there.

Rrrggh.  Just... rrrgggh.


"Et in Arcadio ego..."

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#9 | Back to Top10-04-2013 04:20:31 AM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6027
Website

Re: Feminist Frequency Anyone?

Honestly, I'm not even sure she ever said its name, it was just lumped in with a whole bunch of other clips. Way to read a wikipedia synopsis, dude. emot-rolleyes


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#10 | Back to Top10-15-2013 06:38:49 PM

ArthurianRoseKnight
Anthy Assailer
Registered: 11-17-2012
Posts: 76
Website

Re: Feminist Frequency Anyone?

Pretty much what everyone's said so far is true.

When I first heard about her, I thought it was neat. But the first videos were a bit...lame. Then the whole "fundraising" BS and other stuff I saw just lost me.

Sarkeesian, is, sadly, a hack.


If anything, there are many feminists out there whose name aren't known because they don't have the resources she has, and who address important subjects like actual exploitation of women in the real world, sexual slavery, war rape, and everything else we always see in the news.

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#11 | Back to Top11-01-2013 11:30:17 AM

rhyaniwyn
Myth is my Bitch
From: Tallahassee, FL
Registered: 11-09-2006
Posts: 684
Website

Re: Feminist Frequency Anyone?

I've watched a few of her videos and I think she does a decent job of covering the basics, but I think she glosses over things, makes counterproductively inaccurate generalizations, and often uses really bad examples for things she's talking about when better examples exist.

She certainly does a much better job than the response she got to her proposal suggested.

Last edited by rhyaniwyn (11-04-2013 12:14:39 PM)


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#12 | Back to Top11-01-2013 08:49:47 PM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: Feminist Frequency Anyone?

This is kind of shallow, but the main reason I haven't actually watched her videos much is because her facial expressions kind of annoy me. emot-keke; At least I'm not missing much, I guess.

At the same time I also get annoyed at some of her detractors. Got to love it when both sides suck, eh? emot-tongue

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#13 | Back to Top11-03-2013 06:25:59 AM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6027
Website

Re: Feminist Frequency Anyone?

A lot of her detractors seem to toe the MRA party line. Ugh. That whole MRA business is a sinkhole of terrible cognitive dissonance, PUAs, and bronies, so if it's a choice between the two I'll be on Sarkeesian's side... but only because I doubt she's masturbated to any of the brony porn flash games on newgrounds.

My curiosity will someday kill me. Why did I google that. Please learn from my example and don't fucking go there. http://ohtori.nu/forumstuff/emotes/emot-suicide.gif

(Disclaimer: Not that I have anything against sane bronies who just enjoy the show, of course.)

This thread is boring, everyone more or less agrees and no one is terrified. I vote we change the topic. If anyone's interested in MRAs, PUAs, horrible misogynistic tendencies in the extreme superbrony culture, and why reddit is a cyst on the ass of the internet, I'm your extremely well educated and extremely traumatized girl. emot-keke

(Okay, okay. Parts of reddit. Parts.)


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#14 | Back to Top06-16-2014 02:04:54 PM

Kita-Ysabell
Covert Diarist
Registered: 11-18-2012
Posts: 823
Website

Re: Feminist Frequency Anyone?

So there was a new one, and I did a thing.

Not so much saying anything new.  Well, a bit new.  But mostly just in a different place.  Virtual place.  Whatever.


"Et in Arcadio ego..."

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