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#1 | Back to Top09-11-2012 12:11:01 AM

The Riddler
Saionji Slapper
From: Gotham City
Registered: 07-13-2012
Posts: 25

[Riddler] Harley Quinn

Harley Quinn

Have you ever watched a gymnast acrobat play Dance Dance Revolution, “heroes?”  Harley's moves are impossible for dunderheads like you to match.  Good luck at the dance-off.

http://ohtori.nu/Riddler/Harley_Quinn_DDR.png

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#2 | Back to Top09-11-2012 12:35:54 AM

Saito Hoshikawa
Thorn of Death
From: Satan's armpit in Texas
Registered: 12-27-2010
Posts: 480

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

Opening notes: There's something up about that extra panel for the final song of Harley's dance. From playing DRR myself, I know that different difficulties add more arrows/steps into the step chart, and some songs add multiple arrows into a chain sequence, so there's that as something of usefulness? (Not really.)

Not only that, but four arrows in one line was hard enough unless you cheated with a hand controller.

I'd think there's a hidden message in there, but that extra panel issue makes that pretty impossible.

I wouldn't think that they're specific step charts to certain songs, because most charts don't use four steps simultaneously, even with certain obstacles set.


"You know I have to question your sanity when I realize your eyes are focusing in on the ass of what is supposed to be a steam train engine." "Yes, I know it seems weird, but you gotta admit; it's a damn fine piece of supposedly rusted iron ass."

"Note how amazing they look in the '87 pictures but then look like they're taking mugshots for prison in the '90 pictures."

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#3 | Back to Top09-11-2012 08:57:14 AM

Ashnod
La poétesse revolutionnaire
From: Missouri, United States
Registered: 03-01-2007
Posts: 1243
Website

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

Saito Hoshikawa wrote:

Opening notes: There's something up about that extra panel for the final song of Harley's dance. From playing DRR myself, I know that different difficulties add more arrows/steps into the step chart, and some songs add multiple arrows into a chain sequence, so there's that as something of usefulness? (Not really.)

Not only that, but four arrows in one line was hard enough unless you cheated with a hand controller.

I'd think there's a hidden message in there, but that extra panel issue makes that pretty impossible.

I wouldn't think that they're specific step charts to certain songs, because most charts don't use four steps simultaneously, even with certain obstacles set.

Unless DDR has changed significantly in recent years, it never uses 3 or 4 arrows in a single action. It's always limited to two. The object of the game was to always use your feet, not your hands and feet. Some dancers would use hands for style, but using three or four pressure pads at the same time was never a requirement. This was standard from the first DDR up until about Supernova 2, which was the last incarnation I played.

In The Groove (rip-off clone), or  Pump It Up (five pad game), on the other hand, don't necessarily follow the same conventions.

Last edited by Ashnod (09-11-2012 08:58:27 AM)


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#4 | Back to Top09-11-2012 09:56:16 AM

Dazmi
Miki Molester
From: Winnipeg, MB
Registered: 08-09-2012
Posts: 30
Website

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

Custom chart! school-devil

Red = 4th
Blue = 8th
Purple = 12th
Yellow = 16th
Pink = 24th
Light Blue = 48th
Green = 64th

Probably doesn`t help at all, but you gotta throw what you got. I just couldn`t help but notice that they were all red notes. Maybe the BPM is really fast or something.

Also, in stepmania I remember something along the lines of "invisible notes". I mean, if that`s worth mentioning.

Last edited by Dazmi (09-11-2012 09:58:53 AM)

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#5 | Back to Top09-11-2012 12:16:48 PM

Ashnod
La poétesse revolutionnaire
From: Missouri, United States
Registered: 03-01-2007
Posts: 1243
Website

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

Dazmi wrote:

Custom chart! school-devil

Red = 4th
Blue = 8th
Purple = 12th
Yellow = 16th
Pink = 24th
Light Blue = 48th
Green = 64th

Probably doesn`t help at all, but you gotta throw what you got. I just couldn`t help but notice that they were all red notes. Maybe the BPM is really fast or something.

Also, in stepmania I remember something along the lines of "invisible notes". I mean, if that`s worth mentioning.

The video you're referencing is from In The Groove and not DDR. The color of the notes may not be a factor if the riddle is strictly meant to work off DDR.


Flowers without names blooming in the field can only sway in the wind. But I was born with a destiny of roses, born to live in passion and glory.

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#6 | Back to Top09-11-2012 05:59:08 PM

Melancholic_Soul
Dancer Romancer
From: VA
Registered: 04-28-2009
Posts: 1513

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

Is it possible that the beat patterns are important? The panels that separate the movement groups are not standard in DDR, that's definitely a fact. I assume they're movement groups because none of the steps appear on the separating lines. Are we trying to match up steps somehow?


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#7 | Back to Top09-11-2012 08:37:40 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

Some interesting ideas so far!  emot-biggrin  Here are three questions that might help you think in the right direction; I guarantee that exactly two of them are useful.

* [Why are the arrows red?]
* [Are there any systematic differences among the five songs?]
* [How many movement groups does Harley have?]

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#8 | Back to Top09-11-2012 08:56:16 PM

Saito Hoshikawa
Thorn of Death
From: Satan's armpit in Texas
Registered: 12-27-2010
Posts: 480

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

Ashnod wrote:

Unless DDR has changed significantly in recent years, it never uses 3 or 4 arrows in a single action. It's always limited to two. The object of the game was to always use your feet, not your hands and feet. Some dancers would use hands for style, but using three or four pressure pads at the same time was never a requirement. This was standard from the first DDR up until about Supernova 2, which was the last incarnation I played.

In The Groove (rip-off clone), or  Pump It Up (five pad game), on the other hand, don't necessarily follow the same conventions.

I know that; that's what I was talking about when I said that four arrows in one line was hard enough. I don't guess it was made clear, though.


"You know I have to question your sanity when I realize your eyes are focusing in on the ass of what is supposed to be a steam train engine." "Yes, I know it seems weird, but you gotta admit; it's a damn fine piece of supposedly rusted iron ass."

"Note how amazing they look in the '87 pictures but then look like they're taking mugshots for prison in the '90 pictures."

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#9 | Back to Top09-11-2012 09:55:23 PM

Melancholic_Soul
Dancer Romancer
From: VA
Registered: 04-28-2009
Posts: 1513

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

The arrows are red because the steps are wrong! So, do we match up the steps between us and Harley and find out which steps are out. Like in song one, the entire line is out. We have L,U,D and she has R? or maybe in that second grouping, its L+D, because we've stepped Right and she stepped Up...?


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#10 | Back to Top09-13-2012 02:29:17 PM

Melancholic_Soul
Dancer Romancer
From: VA
Registered: 04-28-2009
Posts: 1513

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

Certified Thread Killer back for more...

I just noticed that the first song only has one move per movement group, whereas song two has two or more. Song three has quite a few double jumps. In song 4 Harley has 12 steps to our 8.... just wanted to throw that out there.


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#11 | Back to Top09-13-2012 02:47:06 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

Melancholic_Soul wrote:

I just noticed that the first song only has one move per movement group, whereas song two has two or more.

[Interesting observation!  Are there any other patterns or anomalies within either of those songs?]

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#12 | Back to Top09-13-2012 06:26:37 PM

Melancholic_Soul
Dancer Romancer
From: VA
Registered: 04-28-2009
Posts: 1513

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

satyreyes wrote:

Melancholic_Soul wrote:

I just noticed that the first song only has one move per movement group, whereas song two has two or more.

[Interesting observation!  Are there any other patterns or anomalies within either of those songs?]

Well, there are no up or down arrows in Song two at all. Also in song two, both Harley's first step set and our step set match.

Also in song one We have twice the amount of steps that harley does. Literally a 2:1 ratio.  In song one, the third grouping for both players features the step from group 2.

Last edited by Melancholic_Soul (09-13-2012 06:37:16 PM)


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#13 | Back to Top09-15-2012 07:31:18 AM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

Y'all are ready to crack parts of this one pretty fast -- but first you'll have to figure out [what a movement group means].  To that end, may I suggest you answer the final question I asked earlier?

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#14 | Back to Top09-16-2012 01:34:36 PM

Melancholic_Soul
Dancer Romancer
From: VA
Registered: 04-28-2009
Posts: 1513

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

Harley has 26, if we count the one where there are no steps, in that case she has 25. We have 24.


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#15 | Back to Top09-16-2012 02:22:31 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

[26 is an interesting number.]

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#16 | Back to Top09-16-2012 06:00:46 PM

Melancholic_Soul
Dancer Romancer
From: VA
Registered: 04-28-2009
Posts: 1513

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

It is. So the movement groups could be individual letters to a code. *takes the time to look through code*


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#17 | Back to Top09-17-2012 02:39:14 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

You've set yourself up for the big Aha, M_S!  You just need to combine two of your observations:

- [Each movement group could be a letter in a code];
- [Song 2 uses only two symbols: left arrows and right arrows].

Can you think of any [other codes that use only two symbols]?

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#18 | Back to Top09-17-2012 05:26:35 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 906

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

Is it morse code?
Harley's is FGHIJ, which makes our F _ _ _ _.
However, assuming that the rest of the dances match up to letters in the alphabet, I can't find matchups for our dances in Harley's moves.
Or are our dances forming a 24-character code? That makes our Song 2 FGHIK, if the code combines I/J and W/X.

Last edited by Atropos (09-17-2012 05:33:38 PM)

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#19 | Back to Top09-17-2012 05:39:36 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

Atropos wrote:

Is it morse code?
Harley's is FGHIJ, which makes our F _ _ _ _.

Fill in those blanks! emot-biggrin  You don't need to find a match among Harley's moves, because [you know the rule: Song 2 is Morse code].

On an unrelated note, [Harley's Song 2 is FGHIJ, of all things].  That's suggestive.  I wonder what her other songs could be.

Last edited by satyreyes (09-17-2012 05:40:47 PM)

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#20 | Back to Top09-17-2012 05:47:07 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 906

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

satyreyes wrote:

Fill in those blanks! emot-biggrin  You don't need to find a match among Harley's moves, because [you know the rule: Song 2 is Morse code].

On an unrelated note, [Harley's Song 2 is FGHIJ, of all things].  That's suggestive.  I wonder what her other songs could be.

'FNOBO'?

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#21 | Back to Top09-17-2012 06:09:44 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

Yup!  Five down, nineteen to go.  emot-keke

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#22 | Back to Top09-20-2012 12:09:12 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

[A potentially interesting avenue for investigation.  If Harley's Song 2 translates to FGHIJ, what do you suppose her Song 1 might be?]

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#23 | Back to Top09-22-2012 04:01:36 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

You've already discovered that each movement group encodes a letter -- but you've only found the trick to Song 2 (Morse code).  As I once recommended in the Two-Face riddle, put yourself in the puzzle constructor's shoes.  What other ways can you think of to use DDR arrows to encode letters?

Here's a push.  If I had wanted to make this puzzle a little easier, I could have given the songs names.  Here's what I might have named them:

Song 1: [The Computer's Song]
Song 2: [The Telegraph Operator's Song]
Song 3: [The Mapmaker's Song]
Song 4: [The Fingerpainter's Song]
Song 5: [The Sailor's Song]

Last edited by satyreyes (09-22-2012 04:06:42 PM)

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#24 | Back to Top09-22-2012 11:14:00 PM

Crystalline_Dream
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
From: Beneath a starry sky
Registered: 01-17-2011
Posts: 180

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

So Song 1 is in binary code?

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#25 | Back to Top09-22-2012 11:32:54 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: [Riddler] Harley Quinn

Crystalline_Dream wrote:

So Song 1 is in binary code?

Try it and see!  emot-wink

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