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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top07-18-2012 10:33:43 AM

april6e
New Student
Registered: 10-07-2011
Posts: 3

Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

I thoroughly have enjoyed looking through this site's topics as Utena still makes no sense to me and many of the topics here cleared up plot points that I'd never have understood.

Something that has bothered me though is that I feel many of the analysis don't use much facts and more just "I want this to happen" type of mentality. The same way you get annoyed in English class when your teacher thinks Lord of the Flies is an allegory for homosexual child lust, I am bother by many opinions on this site taken as fact when there isn't any support in the anime to prove it.

I'm going to list common viewpoints I've seen on this site and if I'm wrong, can you refer me to a specific point in the anime that proves otherwise?

1. Akio had sex with almost every female/male in the anime.

Akio is a beast, but I don't see any evidence in the anime that he had sex with Touga, Saionji, or many of the females you wish he did. The bed scene with Touga and Akio doesn't seem to promote any view that they had a relationship at all. It's a common thing in anime for two highly sexual males to "flaunt" their sexuality in front of each other. If you are a male and have ever done swimming/track/any team sport where you take a shower afterwards, you take showers naked with the guys all the time and do silly things like touch them jokingly or flaunt your "manhood" but this doesn't come close to suggesting you guys have orgies together.

2. Juri is lesbian/bi

This is one of my greatest peeves. There isn't anything close to even come close to suggesting she is lesbian. Bi, you have more of an argument but people act like they've never seen two close female friends before. It's a typical American attitude that if two female are really close, they must be lesbians. Straight women here can vouch that they've probably sleep together with their best friend as a child if not been naked together or even touched their friends sensually. It's normal and you can do it without sexual intention, guys can't fathom this.

3. Anthy is a misunderstood hero of the story

She's a backstabbing tramp^_^. Moving on...

4. Miki and his sister

His sister is one of the most interesting characters in anime. She didn't have sex with her brother, Miki didn't have sex with anyone. Despite what one might think about anyone getting in Akio pimpmobile.

5. Oh, did I mention Anthy is a backstabbing tramp?

Last edited by april6e (07-18-2012 10:34:05 AM)

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#2 | Back to Top07-18-2012 10:42:23 AM

thothptah
Ohtori Paramouri
Registered: 01-21-2010
Posts: 97

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

april6e wrote:

2. Juri is lesbian/bi

This is one of my greatest peeves. There isn't anything close to even come close to suggesting she is lesbian. Bi, you have more of an argument but people act like they've never seen two close female friends before. It's a typical American attitude that if two female are really close, they must be lesbians. Straight women here can vouch that they've probably sleep together with their best friend as a child if not been naked together or even touched their friends sensually. It's normal and you can do it without sexual intention, guys can't fathom this.

Whether or not Juri has had any sexual experience with another woman or not, I think that the anime makes it very clear that she has romantic feelings for and attachment to Shiori. This goes beyond mere friendship; Juri keeps a picture of Shiori in her locket as her most precious possession for years. The way Juri acts around and responds to Shiori indicate that there is much more than friendliness on her mind. Even with all of that aside, there is the scene between Miki, Utena, and Juri in episode 37 where Utena distinguishes her feelings for Anthy from the kinds of feelings that Juri has for Shiori- Utena is attempting to say that her feelings for Anthy, unlike Juri's for Shiori, are not romantically driven (at least primarily).

As for your points numbered 3 & 5, I think that is simply a matter of personal interpretation and that the series offers plenty of leeway on one's perception of Anthy's character and plight.

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#3 | Back to Top07-18-2012 10:54:06 AM

HonorableShadow
Cow Bellhop
From: Ohio
Registered: 11-03-2006
Posts: 471
Website

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

The same way you get annoyed in English class when your teacher thinks Lord of the Flies is an allegory for homosexual child lust,

I would have found my class a lot more interesting if my English teacher had thought this. emot-frown

Last edited by HonorableShadow (07-18-2012 11:07:03 AM)


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#4 | Back to Top07-18-2012 11:26:12 AM

Scoluron
Rose Bride
From: Portland, OR
Registered: 11-03-2009
Posts: 114

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

april6e wrote:

I am bother by many opinions on this site taken as fact when there isn't any support in the anime to prove it.

I'm not sure you've read enough of the archived analyses, have read enough of the interviews with the writers/directors, and have even consumed enough of the various Utena media to make the claim that there isn't any support for such assumptions.  Are you implying that the people on this site don't have much more information about the anime (in specific) than you do?

I don't know much myself about Utena (though I learn something new each time I rewatch any given episode).  But I've looked back far enough in the archives to know there are old arguments that have been made that I doubt long-time forumgoers want to continually hash out.  Of course, that's a general intrinsic issue with older forums that have smaller communities but welcome new members.

If I were you I'd probably just ask why the specific left-field analyses are at times taken for granted.  I'm sure people will inform you.


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#5 | Back to Top07-18-2012 11:34:29 AM

Aine Silveria
Pumpkin Bride
From: Allegan, MI
Registered: 11-03-2006
Posts: 2098

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

Everyone has opinions. Most of the things you dispute have had threads dedicated to them, as well as interpretive analysis essays. The best thing about Utena, though, is how even though many of us have somewhat disparate views on certain things, it's an engaging enough series that we can always find something to talk about and disagree about.

I thought some of the same things you did years ago when I first joined the forum. I now think differently on many of them, and even have personal headcanon for many things where I didn't before. I'm not great at the interpretive analysis, but much of what you question comes down to understanding inflection, body language, and even reactions of other characters. I wouldn't carry around a locket of someone I didn't have romantic feelings for, and clutch at it angstily when emotional. I wouldn't have as much of a casual appreciation of someone's nude or nearly nude body if I hadn't seen and experienced it before. I also wouldn't leave the only life I remember if I were just a callous human being.

Some of our interpretations also come from who we are as people, and that may color our views. Because I would not do those things, I believe others would not as well. But when people agree with me, it means I'm more than just applying my own colors to someone else's lines.


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#6 | Back to Top07-18-2012 12:01:40 PM

Honey Bear
Sunlit Gardener (Prelude)
From: England
Registered: 08-01-2011
Posts: 173
Website

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

I think you're right that most of the things you state are questionable and up for debate (though I think your view on Anthy is coloured by personal opinion) but...

april6e wrote:

2. Juri is lesbian/bi
This is one of my greatest peeves. There isn't anything close to even come close to suggesting she is lesbian.

You mean there's actually someone out there who thinks Juri is straight?  emot-aaa

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#7 | Back to Top07-18-2012 12:02:22 PM

Lurv
Pained Growlithe
Registered: 05-25-2012
Posts: 520

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

With a show like Utena, of course there's going to be different interpretations that not everyone will agree with. Heck, even with shows that are more straightforward, you'll have fans arguing about some facts. The thing with art though, is that it's not always about the fact, but about how you interpret it. At least that's how I feel.

Straight women here can vouch that they've probably sleep together with their best friend as a child if not been naked together or even touched their friends sensually. It's normal and you can do it without sexual intention, guys can't fathom this.

Women can be physically close without being romantically involved, but since we don't see Jury and Shiori hugging or anything, I don't think that's why people are arguing that Jury is attracted to Shiori. (Maybe I'm misremembering something, but the most intimate scene I can remember between them is the black rose scene where Shiori yanks a sword out of Jury's chest. And that comes across as pretty sexual to me, to be honest.)

She's a backstabbing tramp^_^. Moving on...

Amusingly enough I heard this in Anthy's voice.

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#8 | Back to Top07-18-2012 01:17:24 PM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 588

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

1. A perfectly valid interpretation and even insightful. But that big grin of his is awfully suggestive.
2. I suppose there is such a thing as hetero-sexual girl-crush. I suppose it could get awfully intense, I wouldn't know. Do note that Shiori placed her hand between Juri's breasts and held them there for a very long second and neither Juri nor we are sure which way her hand will move.
4. Agreed mostly, one could argue that her feelings about Miki consist of a highly-inappropriate possessiveness and that she is not aware of how it looks to others.
3. and 5. That's a semantic argument. She sleeps around (seemingly) but at whose behest? That's not clear. She stabs Utena in the back, but why? Oddly, the evidence that she sleeps with anybody other than Akio is not stronger than the other insinuations mentioned in this topic. Maybe she is Akio-monogamous.

Last edited by brian (07-18-2012 01:20:19 PM)

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#9 | Back to Top07-18-2012 01:45:58 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 906

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

april6e wrote:

Akio is a beast, but I don't see any evidence in the anime that he had sex with Touga, Saionji, or many of the females you wish he did. The bed scene with Touga and Akio doesn't seem to promote any view that they had a relationship at all.

Are you kidding me?
Are you deliberately trying to ignore the subtext? Akio slept with a 14-year old girl and his fiancee's mother. What makes you think gender would be an issue for him?

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#10 | Back to Top07-18-2012 01:48:16 PM

Frau Eva
Voodoo Queen
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 803

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

Guys, Guys, GUYS. I think we really have to look at the bare-bones facts of this show even further now that we've heard this.

For example, many people also conclude that Akio is a ladies' man. FALSE. He is a virgin who likes naked wrestling. I mean, what siblings haven't giggled and showed each other their peepees? Just because two siblings like to run around naked doesn't mean they've had SEX EW. And we have no proof of Utena and Akio actually having sex. Did we see penetration? NO. They were clearly just wrestling naked and Akio got the upper hand. Utena was sad that she had lost and he was totally pinching her and it hurt. emot-frown What's weird about naked wrestling? My brother and his friend do it all the time when they're supposed to be studying, so I have it on good authority that it's perfectly normal.

People also assume that Touga is a womanizer with a thing for Utena. FALSE. Just because he calls girls all the time and they hang out in his bed doesn't mean he like-likes them, or vice-versa. I do that all the time to guys and I'm totally joking. Sure, they think I mean it, but that's just because they're stupid. Everyone knows that if I liked them I would ask, "Would you like to have sexual intercourse with me?" It is simply the weakness inherent in their gender to misunderstand.

People also assume Ruka likes Juri. FALSE. He likes Shiori, because he dated her. If he liked Juri, he would have asked for sexual intercourse. She was clearly becoming too angry when they were fencing, so he put his facehole over hers to help her breathe. It's a perfectly normal response. My brother and his friend do it all the time when wrestling gets them too exhausted.


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#11 | Back to Top07-18-2012 01:53:13 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 906

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

^Win emot-rofl
That's not to say the fandom doesn't see sex where it isn't.

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#12 | Back to Top07-18-2012 01:53:52 PM

Syora
Presidential Accoster
From: Under Northern Lights
Registered: 06-07-2009
Posts: 1866

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

1. Akio had sex with almost every female/male in the anime.

I'm actually with you on this one, but I think the key word is almost. He racks up quite a body count, and while I wouldn't put it /past/ him to sleep with everyone, there are some we assume he never had time (or motive) to bother with, like Wakaba, Nanami and her goon trio. But like, the list is pretty freaking long. Kozue, Touga, Anthy, Utena, Mrs. Ohtori, Tokiko, Kanae (at one point, I'm sure, probably only the first time and then he realized that fresh, young vagina does not compare with the zesty, treacherous debauchery that is her mother, BUT LET'S NOT GET OFF TRACK HERE). A lot of the sex in Utena is heavily implied. But seriously, you don't think that Akio, Touga and Saionji taking shirtless pictures on top of a car together isn't a little homoerotic, if not extremely inappropriate for a chairman to be doing with his student council? As for whether he has sex with every person who gets in the Akiomobile, I thought that the fact that the chairs are constantly reclining at the end of the scenes to be quite suggestive. If you have a different interpretation of this, let me know, because I love new view points. 

2. Juri is lesbian/bi

Shiori also freaks out about it in Mikage's elevator.

Script taken from ohtori site.

Shiori: Juri-san was so kind to me.
Shiori: But I thought she was kind to me because she looked down on me,
Shiori: and that she had pity on me for being plain and useless.
Shiori: That's pathetic!
Shiori: So I wanted to change my relationship with Juri-san.
Shiori: But what I did with him made me more miserable than before.
Shiori: I should have wanted it for myself!
Shiori: But now...
Shiori: Now I'm on equal terms with her. No, I've won!
Shiori: I always had a place in Juri-san's heart.
Shiori: I'm the winner!
Shiori: What shall I do? I'm so delighted to know my friend's secret I almost can't bear it!
Shiori: She suffered alone, looking at my picture in secret...
Shiori: That was Juri-san? Poor thing!
Shiori: No good! It's still no good!
Shiori: How could you look at me like that?!
Shiori: Why did it all turn out this way?


Whether she likes boys is irrelevant to the series, imo. Her rejection of Ruka is already predicated on the fact that she loves Shiori. And I'm sorry, but she does love her. Not like. Loves. Constant flashbacks to Shiori's face holding out the yellow rose, that Shiori herself mentions that Juri is in love with someone, Juri's obsession with disproving miracles and the fact that she rematches Utena to save Shiori? That ain't no school yard crush, kids. And it makes me so sad that Juri must have seen Shiori, liked her, and wanted to be with her. Then Shiori, being her insecure self, misinterpreted her attraction as pity and began to resent her affections. That is like, tragic, guys. 

3. Anthy is a misunderstood hero of the story

This is up to you entirely. There is a great essay by Azusa about the interpretations of Anthy. Mine is that she is someone who went along with playing a doll for a while as a way to survive and hold onto the only person she loved, eventually bought her own bullshit about being the Rose Bride, and was slowly brought out of it by Utena over the course of the series. Saying she is a backstabbing tramp does have some merit, if only because she did indeed stab someone in the back with a sword, and has sex with her brother, but let us not get into the nasty business of slut-shaming or ridiculing those who are sexually abused at a young age.

4. Miki and his sister

I agree, I love Kozue. Easily my favourite character. And I think there is a hint that their relationship did cross that platonic line, but she does lick his ear while he's sleeping... but they may not have had sex. I'm on the fence with Miki, so I can't offer much in that area.

FTR, I think that it was good of you to call out shenanigans on us, and it showed a lot of balls to make a thread, which I respect.

Edited because I absolutely agree with Atropos.

Last edited by Syora (07-18-2012 01:56:21 PM)

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#13 | Back to Top07-18-2012 02:12:47 PM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1312
Website

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

LMAO at Frau Eva's post - I think it's  better than a lot of humor fics we got out there emot-rofl

edited to add:

For example, many people also conclude that Akio is a ladies' man. FALSE. He is a virgin who likes naked wrestling.

Princess Nanami's such a prude for freaking out over something so innocent between them non-incestuous siblings.

Last edited by gorgeousshutin (07-18-2012 02:16:50 PM)


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 3 as of Sep 26, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#14 | Back to Top07-18-2012 02:51:44 PM

Honey Bear
Sunlit Gardener (Prelude)
From: England
Registered: 08-01-2011
Posts: 173
Website

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

Frau Eva wrote:

Awesome post

Poor Akio! He's so misjudged! emot-frown

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#15 | Back to Top07-18-2012 03:10:57 PM

Ragnarok
Caption Captor
From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4472
Website

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

april6e wrote:

I thoroughly have enjoyed looking through this site's topics as Utena still makes no sense to me and many of the topics here cleared up plot points that I'd never have understood.

What I'd suggest is rewatching the series. Perhaps two, perhaps three times? It's fine to read other people's views and opinions and analyses, but these are always going to be from that person's perspective.

april6e wrote:

Something that has bothered me though is that I feel many of the analysis don't use much facts and more just "I want this to happen" type of mentality. The same way you get annoyed in English class when your teacher thinks Lord of the Flies is an allegory for homosexual child lust, I am bother by many opinions on this site taken as fact when there isn't any support in the anime to prove it.

If you want to post in a thread about any one of your listed topics on why you disagree with a view point... that's what those threads are for. That's what the forum is for. We aren't here to tell you what to think, we're here to explore what we think with others who may or may not agree. No one here is the absolute authority on SKU and even the people who created the show and express things not directly supported in the anime can be disagreed with. (Check further: Touga's childhood.) You're also allowed to disagree with your teacher on the meaning behind Lord of the Flies, because what you're meant to be learning is how to interpret things like that and like SKU; you aren't supposed to take someone else's interpretation as the one and only correct answer.


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#16 | Back to Top07-18-2012 03:21:40 PM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1312
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Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

honey bear wrote:

Poor Akio! He's so misjudged! emot-frown

Perhaps there was nothing outright sexual between Akio and Mrs. Ohtori after all - he could merely be doing a very good job of checking her for ingrown toe nails emot-wink


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 3 as of Sep 26, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
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#17 | Back to Top07-18-2012 03:41:46 PM

Varla
Touga Topper
From: Stirling, Scotland
Registered: 07-03-2011
Posts: 50
Website

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

I'm selectively responding here, but...

2. I know where you're coming from. There are many people who will assume close bond between friends of any same sex friendships are homosexual. But the level of pain, obsession and manipulation seen with Juri/Shiori is so blatantly sexual. Honest. I've had many close friends that were female. I've never kept a rose locket with their picture in it. No one on this site is just pulling this out of thin air.
http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/7186-1/Series_ep17_139.jpg
http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/7026-1/Series_ep17_059.jpg

5. The wording of 'tramp' here bothers me.


SKU is riddled with gender issues, sex, psychological, and feminist themes. It is. If you don't see it, rewatch it or pick an anime that doesn't have it, because it's there. Look at the scene with a sword penetrating a rose, with Anthy kissing the sword that Touga holds, I could go on...

EDIT: If Juri were male, would you still find their relationship platonic?

Last edited by Varla (07-18-2012 03:47:38 PM)


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#18 | Back to Top07-18-2012 03:49:27 PM

Frau Eva
Voodoo Queen
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 803

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

Varla wrote:

EDIT: If Juri were male, would you still find their relationship platonic?

THIS. Is what bothers me. If we applied the same logic to every relationship in the show, we'd be hard-pressed to prove anyone likes anyone romantically. The fact that this high standard of proof is only applied to possible homosexual relationships is problematic, to say the least.


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#19 | Back to Top07-18-2012 05:01:48 PM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1312
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Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

april6e:

If you are a male and have ever done swimming/track/any team sport where you take a shower afterwards, you take showers naked with the guys all the time and do silly things like touch them jokingly or flaunt your "manhood" but this doesn't come close to suggesting you guys have orgies together.

The idea that Akio and Touga could just be horsing around ala showering straight jocks, only that locker room is now a bedroom, and they're rolling on satin sheets semi-disrobed, is just too fic-worthy to ignore.  Someone write this please! 

Edited to add:

The fact that this high standard of proof is only applied to possible homosexual relationships is problematic, to say the least.

I think this happened to some fan reaction of No. 6, where many considered  the kissing between the male leads to be completely platonic.

P.S.  Still eagerly awaiting the crack fic that is SKU: Right Field Remix

Last edited by gorgeousshutin (07-18-2012 07:48:03 PM)


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 3 as of Sep 26, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
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#20 | Back to Top07-18-2012 08:24:25 PM

OnlyInThisLight
KING OF ALL DUCKS
Registered: 01-15-2008
Posts: 4411

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

Isn't there an actual screenshot of Akio and Touga doing the nasty?  It may still be interpreted as them mimicking Anthy and Utena's later series night time going-to-bed ritual or purely symbolic imagery... but I am fairly sure it's all three.  It's a parallel to Anthy and Utena's relationship, symbolic and meaningful in that regard, and totally a shadowed shot of a dick going inside of a butt. 

The reason sex in SKU was for the most part only heavily implied is threefold.  The show had a rating to adhere to, the show was not meant to be porn and most of time the creators wanted to present sexual ambiance, this feeling of sex bleeding into every character's relationship and self-reflection and coloring and confusing it, just as it does for many real life adolescents.  Nanami fears what may be sexual feelings for her brother, for example, whether or not they actually exist, because Akio's MO is to confuse both maturity and love for sex.  When he and Utena have sex that is exactly what Utena thinks... that that is what people who love each other do.  Touga is drawn to Akio's power, maturity and sexuality because they are all presented as one and the same.  He rides in Akio's car and has sex with Akio and gets to play around being the dueling scenes and it's all the same thing to him.  It's a fallacy, that maturity (or power) is a matter of sexual experience and love is an expression or means of sexual desire... but then again Akio's the antagonist, isn't he?

Not every character was having sex with every other character, but sexual over and under tones permeate the majority of SKU relatioships regardless of the gender of those involved or the nature of their relationship (siblings, friends, rivals).  Most of the time that's what we are talking about.

Last edited by OnlyInThisLight (07-18-2012 08:27:51 PM)

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#21 | Back to Top07-18-2012 08:49:26 PM

crystalwren
Dark Whisperer
From: Brisbane
Registered: 04-21-2009
Posts: 1172
Website

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

Whoís that trip trapping over my bridge, op?  school-devil

That said, there is a worthy discussion here in regards to Juri-sama.

While I'm of the 'Juri loves Shori' and 'Juri bats for the other side or maybe even both sides' camps, I do think you can make a moderately reasonable argument that Juri's attachment to Shiori could be seen as pre-heterosexuality fixation. Or maybe even what's called a romantic friendship. Romantic friendships were once an accepted part of Western society; from what I gather it was seen as perfectly normal for men and women to have emotionally intense relationships, and unlike today these relationships were (usually) not automatically assumed to be sexual in nature. Right now I've an intensely emotional relationship with a friend of mine. There are vague suggestions of a sexual attraction on my part. Not because I'm actually attracted to her in a way that would ordinarily imply swapping spit. (Oh hell no!) It's because the emotional attachment is strong enough to trigger other forms of attachment. Thatís a romantic friendship, to my mind. Itís certainly more intense than a usual friendship, but I ainít in love with her. I sure as hell donít want to sleep with her. So, hence my label for Ďusí is Ďromantic friendshipí.

The Shiori in Jury's head doesn't appear to have a great deal of resemblance to the genuine animal. In fact, what, exactly, is it about Shiori that Juri loves? Does Shiori have any cute mannerisms? Favourite foods? A liking for sandalwood soap? Does she like soap operas, or does she live in fear that one day her trendy Neighbours-loving (bleh!) classmates will discover that sheís a secret documentary loving nerd? Just who, exactly, is the Shiori in Juriís head? The Shiori we see in the show is one of those depressingly insecure people who attach themselves to others in order to feel like she has some worth. What personality she has is ultimately dependent on whoever sheís fixated on at the time. Basically sheís a mirror, or perhaps more accurately, an Akio hologram. So what exactly does Juri see in Shiori other than what Juri wants to see? Shiori is sweet, feminine, softly spoken and desires to please the one she loves. (Or manipulate the fuck out of you, whichever comes first.) In many ways she seems like the archetypal idealisation of a classic Japanese girl, right up to the point she goes bugfuck insane when Mutant Forelock Dude dumps her. So, hereís Juri: strong, deep-voiced, huge presence, tall, handles herself magnificently in a fight, intimidates the fuck out of everyone she meets, wants to protect the fragile girl she loves, and with many, many other classically masculine features. Makes me wonder if what Juri sees in Shiori is not Shiori at all, but what Juri feels deep down what she should actually be.

Based on Juri going the grope on Utena in the first season (which Utena appeared to not particularly mind) Iíve of the firm opinion that Juri is indeed sexually attracted to other females. I also believe that Juri is fixated on Shiori, as opposed to actually loving the nasty piece of work. Whether or not Juri will turn out to be bisexual in the future, or at least decide to enter a marriage of convenience, is rather immaterial to who and what she is during the course of the series. Identities do change as you get older.

Last edited by crystalwren (07-18-2012 08:53:34 PM)

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#22 | Back to Top07-18-2012 09:40:37 PM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1312
Website

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/10562-2/Series_ep25_259.jpg

What a way for sexual males to "flaunt their sexuality in front of each other" without actually having sex! I wonder what kinda team sport horse play this is supposed to symbolize; maybe rubby . . . I mean, rugby?  Or is there some kinda below-the-waist-wrestling thing out there I'm yet unaware of?

edited to add: Already in the process of writing out SKU: Non-Out-Of_Left-Field Remix

It's a crack fic as inspired by the following thread http://forums.ohtori.nu/viewtopic.php?id=3134 at IRG, which just fills me with creative energy and non-stop laugher for the past 24 hrs.  Even though Iím falling really behind on my main SKU fic (who knew the Nemuro Research Era would be so cumbersome to put in words), I had to get this out of my system so my mind can snap back to serious mode and I can continue Seinen.  No insult is meant towards the brave soul who is april6e Ė Iím genuinely thankful to this poster for prompting Frau Eva to churn out that awesome post, which provides the fertile soil for the little gem I'm about to unleash on this forum. 

May have to double post the link later so do allow me to apologize in advance emot-smile

Last edited by gorgeousshutin (07-19-2012 10:12:36 AM)


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 3 as of Sep 26, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#23 | Back to Top07-19-2012 10:25:00 AM

Frau Eva
Voodoo Queen
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 803

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

gorgeousshutin wrote:

edited to add: Already in the process of writing out SKU: Non-Out-Of_Left-Field Remix

It's a crack fic as inspired by the following thread http://forums.ohtori.nu/viewtopic.php?id=3134 at IRG, which just fills me with creative energy and non-stop laugher for the past 24 hrs.  Even though Iím falling really behind on my main SKU fic (who knew the Nemuro Research Era would be so cumbersome to put in words), I had to get this out of my system so my mind can snap back to serious mode and I can continue Seinen.  No insult is meant towards the brave soul who is april6e Ė Iím genuinely thankful to this poster for prompting Frau Eva to churn out that awesome post, which provides the fertile soil for the little gem I'm about to unleash on this forum.

It's kind of sad to me that this was really some of my best humor writing in a while. Anyway, you have to promise me fifties-isms like, "Gee willickers!" and "That would be swell!" included in the fic.


Hat Mafia Member

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#24 | Back to Top07-19-2012 12:32:05 PM

Riri-kins
World's End
From: Cloud Nine
Registered: 09-22-2008
Posts: 2346

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

april6e wrote:

1. Akio had sex with almost every female/male in the anime.

Akio is a beast, but I don't see any evidence in the anime that he had sex with Touga, Saionji, or many of the females you wish he did. The bed scene with Touga and Akio doesn't seem to promote any view that they had a relationship at all. It's a common thing in anime for two highly sexual males to "flaunt" their sexuality in front of each other. If you are a male and have ever done swimming/track/any team sport where you take a shower afterwards, you take showers naked with the guys all the time and do silly things like touch them jokingly or flaunt your "manhood" but this doesn't come close to suggesting you guys have orgies together.

2. Juri is lesbian/bi

This is one of my greatest peeves. There isn't anything close to even come close to suggesting she is lesbian. Bi, you have more of an argument but people act like they've never seen two close female friends before. It's a typical American attitude that if two female are really close, they must be lesbians. Straight women here can vouch that they've probably sleep together with their best friend as a child if not been naked together or even touched their friends sensually. It's normal and you can do it without sexual intention, guys can't fathom this.


4. Miki and his sister

His sister is one of the most interesting characters in anime. She didn't have sex with her brother, Miki didn't have sex with anyone. Despite what one might think about anyone getting in Akio pimpmobile.

I respectfully disagree. Juri says she's upset because she never got a chance to tell Shiori how she feels at one point and one of the staff members confirms that she was in love with her. As for Akio and Touga's relationship, I doubt it's mindless fanservice. Well okay, it is fanservice, but I think we can safely say it's not just subtext as evidenced in the shot gorgeousshutin posted.

I agree that Kozue didn't have sex with Miki but I think she really wants to.   I'm one of the few who thinks he doesn't feel the same way about her.


Proud Saionji and Mikage fangirl
My Utena fanfiction: http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2000115/Riri-kins

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#25 | Back to Top07-19-2012 01:21:29 PM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1312
Website

Re: Alot of the analysis on this site seems completely out of left field.

SKU: Non-Out-Of_Left-Field Remix:

http://forums.ohtori.nu/viewtopic.php?id=3137

Hope you guys like~


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 3 as of Sep 26, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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