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#26 | Back to Top07-29-2014 04:21:02 AM

Gaston
Mikage Mistruster
From: Gatineau, QC
Registered: 02-05-2014
Posts: 66
Website

Re: Movie-Shiori

Riri-kins wrote:

I honestly don't think there's anything complicated about Movie Shiori. I think Ikuhara made her the big bad because he decided to make the fandom hate her even more. emot-tongue

I don't think Shiori is the big bad of the movie even if she is worst than in the tv series. She is more a girl screw-up because of a trauma (Touga's death) and who let her negative emotions 'controlling' her.


Proud Juri x Shiori, Nanami x Tsuwabuki and Utena x Wakaba fan

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#27 | Back to Top08-01-2014 01:16:16 AM

Katzenklavier
Wondrous Sexual Eggplant.
From: Back of your thoughts.
Registered: 09-13-2008
Posts: 1120

Re: Movie-Shiori

Gaston wrote:

I don't think Shiori is the big bad of the movie even if she is worst than in the tv series.

Interesting how that seems to be a fairly common consensus. I've always been interested in why fandom rates her unique brand of petty vengeance and self-centeredness above...well, virtually every other character's. What makes Shiori so much more morally reprehensible than, say, Kozue (who mercilessly exploited her brother's sexuality as a way to break him down)?

This isn't so much a defense of her character as it is a consideration of what exactly is it about her that triggers. It might be the fact she's fairly pathetic. Akio and Touga can represent the fantasy of ultimate self-gratification. Shiori craves power and ego fulfillment, but is too weak to realize her desires. She's too cruel to warrant sympathy, and too pathetic to invoke admiration.

I've always read the movie version to embody the negative aspects of the feminine (in the most stereotypical way possible). She's passive-aggressive, manipulative, emotionally driven, self-centered, provokes others into fighting for her, wears frills, writes in a diary, etc. Gender politics/expectations are never far from the central themes of Utena and Shiori's symbolism, rife with delicate butterflies and lace, certainly reflects that trend.


We must go forward, not backward. Upward, not forward. And always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.

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#28 | Back to Top08-01-2014 02:36:44 AM

Jacrad
Ballgoer
Registered: 03-25-2014
Posts: 145

Re: Movie-Shiori

I think it's because we never get to really see a softer side to Shiori in the series.

-Touga is absolutely terrible to people and even relishes in hurting them, not unlike Shiori. But we also get to see his genuine concern for Utena towards the end of the third arc. We also get to see him at perhaps his lowest point in the second arc.

-Saionji is ignorant of other people's feelings. I don't think he ever intends to hurt people emotionally with his actions (Aside from hitting Anthy, although one could argue that he views that as a normal way of asserting dominance in a relationship and ultimately the 'love' he shares with Anthy overcomes any other feelings.) After he gets kicked out of school we really get to see what a hot mess he is.

-Akio. He is a tough one. I think part of what makes Akio easier to accept is that he is such a magnificent bastard that, despite whatever horrible thing he is doing, it is entertaining to just watch him doing it. He does things on a grander scale and does have a slight justification (And I do mean slight) in that he isn't, presumably, human so he doesn't have to act in accordance to human morals. He also has his own demons where his altruism as Dios was repaid with ungratefulness.

-Nanami does terrible things but gets minor spurts of karmic retribution, especially of a humorous nature, so its easier to overlook the absolute trauma she causes to other people (Especially Keiko.) We see her when her whole world falls to pieces in the third arc as well when she discovers Anthy's secret.

-Kozue. Honestly I find Kozue more difficult to hate because she has always been honest with herself that she was doing terrible things to get under Miki's skin. She doesn't try to play it off like she's innocent. She may hide some aspects of what she does from Miki but I don't think she would hide them if Miki confronted her.

=Shiori on the other hand doesn't seem to have an 'excuse' for being nasty. She always gave off, to me, an air of being very well off. That she came from a good family and was part of the 'in-crowd.' And yet, despite having all these nice resources at her disposal all she does is try to hurt other people. Especially those that are closest to her. Sure we see her upset after Ruka runs her through the ringer. But the problem is that we still don't see a softer side to her we don't see her at her lowest point. We see her at a low point, but she proceeds to lash out at everyone and doesn't seem to grow from the experience.

I'm sure there's more to it than that. But that's my initial impression/thought process.

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#29 | Back to Top09-03-2015 12:11:06 AM

Decrescent Daytripper
Best Disney Princess
Registered: 04-09-2007
Posts: 2791

Re: Movie-Shiori

Jacrad wrote:

Nanami does terrible things but gets minor spurts of karmic retribution

She's attacked by elephants and other murderous animals because an evil witch has been screwing with her most/all of her young life!


Jacrad wrote:

Shiori on the other hand doesn't seem to have an 'excuse' for being nasty. She always gave off, to me, an air of being very well off. That she came from a good family and was part of the 'in-crowd.' And yet, despite having all these nice resources at her disposal all she does is try to hurt other people. Especially those that are closest to her. Sure we see her upset after Ruka runs her through the ringer. But the problem is that we still don't see a softer side to her we don't see her at her lowest point. We see her at a low point, but she proceeds to lash out at everyone and doesn't seem to grow from the experience.

She's a young girl, surrounded by talented, gorgeous, and upwardly mobile students. Those closest to her are more mature-seeming, glorified by others, and she's just this kid. She's frilled up a bit, she's alright, but no one's championing her like they do Juri or anything. And, she's not happygolucky enough to be Wakaba about it. So she pushes the boundaries to remind people she's there, very like Kozue.

I think it's easy, with SKU, to forget how young these kids are. What that's like, especially in an isolated school environment like Ohtori, wherein there are evil, immortal witches and macking magician devil dudes screwing with you all the time.


My Brain is the Wakaba and Shiori Funtime Hour. With limited commercial interruption.

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