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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top02-07-2012 12:17:10 PM

Overlord Morgus
Ruthless Deflorist
Registered: 02-22-2011
Posts: 310

I think the Setokai's complexes could be pretty easily solved

Miki's problem is that his sister doesn't play the piano anymore and does a lot of stupid things to get his attention. Obviously, he's quite skilled at tutoring people, so all he has to do is help her with her playing, giving her the attention she desires in the process.

Touga Kiryu doesn't really have to do very much to get the acclaim he desires, he's already Student Council President. That's the highest anyone can go at that age, anyway. And if he wants to be a playboy, all he really has to do is emulate Ohtori's example, his methods really aren't that complex, and neither are the people he's surrounded with.

Saionji could beat Touga if

1. He practiced something other than a downward swing

and

2. Realized that he really doesn't want to emulate Touga's behavior.

Juri/Ruka/Shiori would make a great triple.

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#2 | Back to Top02-07-2012 12:57:54 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8731
Website

Re: I think the Setokai's complexes could be pretty easily solved

Overlord Morgus wrote:

Miki's problem is that his sister doesn't play the piano anymore and does a lot of stupid things to get his attention. Obviously, he's quite skilled at tutoring people, so all he has to do is help her with her playing, giving her the attention she desires in the process.

I don't know, I always got the impression part of Kozue's problem is that Miki shined without her, which put a distance between them that wouldn't have been removed by using their relative differences in skill as a reason to spend time together.

Aside from any sexual experimentation that might have gone on between them, it seems to me like part of Kozue's problem is that she's much more pragmatic than Miki, but that awareness only reminds her of the enormous rift in what they're capable of. She's aware that she's not as good as Miki, and that just makes the sting all the worse.


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
Chiefest of Calamities

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#3 | Back to Top02-07-2012 01:29:48 PM

Overlord Morgus
Ruthless Deflorist
Registered: 02-22-2011
Posts: 310

Re: I think the Setokai's complexes could be pretty easily solved

Well, tutoring her would solve at least one problem. And spending time with her for reasons other than disparity in skill wouldn't make anything worse.

And he doesn't "shine without her," he desperately craves her involvement.

Last edited by Overlord Morgus (02-07-2012 02:19:43 PM)

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#4 | Back to Top02-07-2012 03:53:38 PM

Iris
Queen of the Video Box
From: The whispers of twilight
Registered: 12-28-2006
Posts: 2124

Re: I think the Setokai's complexes could be pretty easily solved

I believe that Miki did try to give Kozue lessons, but she rejected them.
Kozue's first experience with love and romance was from a boy that loved her playing.  She mentioned receiving love letters from the boy next door, he was infatuated with her playing, however Kozue believed all of the skill to come from her brother.  Would the boy have taken notice in her if she didn't play next to Miki?  Perhaps not.
Kozue: "It came out that I couldn't do anything by myself. "
Kozue is aware that Miki still believes her playing to be excellent, but she doesn't want to shatter the delusion he once held that she was just as talented as him, that they where on the same level.  However, she still needs to be in Miki's heart, she needs to feel as if they share something together.  She can't handle the idea of being forgotten, or that she has to face the world alone without him. 

Kozue:  Disappear, all of you!
Kozue: Except for Miki and me, all other things are ugly.

Without valuing herself or her piano playing, how can she get close to Miki?  Kozue knows sex best, it's how she relates to the outside world.  It's a desperate attempt, but she knows attraction is a way to make men fall over her even if they're falling for something that doesn't exist.  Miki was enraptured with the shining feeling he felt when she played, perhaps it was his own greatness he projected onto her.  The boy next door loved her playing, but he could have simply been in love with the idea of her.  Objectified but not ready to give up, Kozue decided to use her sexuality as power. 

Kozue:  ...if something happens to sully me, he acts outwardly as if everything's okay.
But in his heart, he's hurt and he obsesses over me.
That's why I purposely go out with people that I know Miki would hate.


After her heart has been frozen, we hear her playing beautifully with feeling.  Perhaps Kozue could play the piano well all along, but her insecurities and fear of losing her brother's idealistic fantasy hasn't allowed her to play uninhibitedly.  She's lost her freedom of expression trying to preserve the connection they had remaining from childhood.  After the duel, she learns that her own sexuality won't reconnect her and her brother, she can't meet him in his world of purity and childish idealization. 

So, in the next arc, she tries to bring him to her level.  She attempts to bring him into her 'world' of values and motives.

Kozue: If everything around you is dirty, don't you have no choice but to get dirty too?
You've got no choice but to get dirty and then get what you want.

Just like her.

Of course, it doesn't work.

Kozue: Coward.

Only after Kozue is willing to show Miki her true talent and risks losing him all together can they proceed forward as equals.

http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/17050-1/Series_ep39_276.jpg

Last edited by Iris (02-07-2012 04:08:45 PM)


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f29/IrisBeloved/piano.png

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#5 | Back to Top02-07-2012 05:42:25 PM

Overlord Morgus
Ruthless Deflorist
Registered: 02-22-2011
Posts: 310

Re: I think the Setokai's complexes could be pretty easily solved

I forgot the implications of her sitting by her piano.

And I'm surprised that everyone's only disputing my Miki analysis, that one was first because I thought it was the least complicated. But this is good stuff. +1

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#6 | Back to Top02-07-2012 06:45:21 PM

Iris
Queen of the Video Box
From: The whispers of twilight
Registered: 12-28-2006
Posts: 2124

Re: I think the Setokai's complexes could be pretty easily solved

Haha, you brought up my favorite character, Kozue.  I had to step in.

Saionji definitely would do better if he learned more than a downward swing, but Utena is a low-budget show after all.  They spent too much money giving Akio nipples, Touga his luxurious long hair, and Utena short-shorts.

I don't know if Saionji wants to emulate Touga as much as he wants to emulate Touga's power.

Last edited by Iris (02-07-2012 07:04:56 PM)


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f29/IrisBeloved/piano.png

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#7 | Back to Top02-07-2012 09:10:25 PM

Rotten Mooring
Precious One
Registered: 10-26-2011
Posts: 281

Re: I think the Setokai's complexes could be pretty easily solved

Something Eternal, right?

As one of this forum's many Saionji fanatics, I gotta ask, are you sure beating Touga is really the way to get Saionji what he wants?

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#8 | Back to Top02-07-2012 11:25:21 PM

Chrome Homura
Poor Saionji :(
From: Oregon, USA
Registered: 06-07-2010
Posts: 517

Re: I think the Setokai's complexes could be pretty easily solved

^It most certainly isn't. The core of what Saionji wants isn't necessarily to be above Touga in terms of swordsmanship. He wants his "friend" to view and treat him as an equal, not just a resource to be used and taken advantage of... and ever since that rainy day at the church, he's been set on the idea that attaining "something eternal" will accomplish that. Even if Sai were to somehow level up enough to beat Touga at Kendo, he'd probably be greatly disappointed to find it wouldn't make any difference in that regard.


"My blood is steel, my heart is glass... I have emerged unvanquished from many battles... Never have I been put to flight, but neither have I stood victorious... This bearer stands here alone, forging steel atop a hill of blades... for that reason, my life has never needed meaning. My body has always...

been made of infinite swords!"

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#9 | Back to Top02-07-2012 11:37:52 PM

Katzenklavier
Wondrous Sexual Eggplant.
From: Back of your thoughts.
Registered: 09-13-2008
Posts: 1120

Re: I think the Setokai's complexes could be pretty easily solved

Hahaha!!! I don't necessarily agree with all your arguments, Overlord Morgus, but I do think you have a good point. I think a big issue with EVERY duelist is that they are as inflexible and ignorant as they are talented. Obviously, the solution to most of their problems is to grow up, stop depending on others for their concepts of self-worth, and invest time in caring and supportive people. If Saionji had a lick of sense, he would give up obsessing over the unattainable Anthy and let Wakaba spoil him. If Juri believed in her own worth, she wouldn't need to condemn herself to self-inflicted punishment. If Touga had true security, he wouldn't need to conquer more and more trophies to accentuate his already swollen ego.

But they remain in their delusional self-involved coffins, and thus became easy fodder for more adept predators.


We must go forward, not backward. Upward, not forward. And always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.

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#10 | Back to Top02-08-2012 01:01:48 PM

Overlord Morgus
Ruthless Deflorist
Registered: 02-22-2011
Posts: 310

Re: I think the Setokai's complexes could be pretty easily solved

I like how having her heart frozen gave her talent, truly it is the void and not the flame that gives us strength.

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#11 | Back to Top02-11-2012 04:42:11 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: I think the Setokai's complexes could be pretty easily solved

Katzenklavier wrote:

Obviously, the solution to most of their problems is to grow up, stop depending on others for their concepts of self-worth, and invest time in caring and supportive people. . . .

But they remain in their delusional self-involved coffins, and thus became easy fodder for more adept predators.

Well said.

The real solution to the Student Council members' problems is not to reconcile their broken relationships, but to reconcile themselves to their broken relationships.  And move the fuck on.  That is the moral of Anthy's story, I think.

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