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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top02-04-2012 02:23:16 PM

Overlord Morgus
Ruthless Deflorist
Registered: 02-22-2011
Posts: 310

I think the Power to Bring the World Revolution wasn't a sham

Utena essentially got what she wanted out of the coffin: saving Anthy from her eternal martyrdom. Her words in the final scene seemed to indicate that that was all she really wanted from the Power of Dios. If someone else opened the coffin, it may well have been something different.

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#2 | Back to Top02-04-2012 03:43:11 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 906

Re: I think the Power to Bring the World Revolution wasn't a sham

It was my interpretation that what lay beyond the Rose Gate depended on what the duelist wanted. Utena wanted to save Anthy, so she found the coffin of the Rose Bride.

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#3 | Back to Top02-04-2012 07:39:39 PM

Overlord Morgus
Ruthless Deflorist
Registered: 02-22-2011
Posts: 310

Re: I think the Power to Bring the World Revolution wasn't a sham

So the interpretation we should take away from the ending scene is that Ohtori doesn't want to bring the world revolution, merely to play at it in perpetuity? Akio knows how to open the door, but he doesn't. He adamantly did not want the coffin to open even though that's where the power of Dios was supposedly hidden. That's his weakness, his fear of meaningful change. Or, he wants to keep on fighting for the sake of fighting, since fighting was all he did when he was Dios and what he stands to do if he reclaims his old status.

Also, his means of opening the Rose Door was nonsensical, perhaps the entire cycle exists only to demonstrate the tragic fragility of all that is noble. He wishes only to force others to live through his failure. That would correlate with Juri's story about the boy trying to save her sister from drowning and dying in the process.

Alternatively, perhaps Akio finds that fighting for a doomed revolution is the highest honor that he can achieve even though he could easily achieve it if he just opened the damn door with his hands. I guess he represents the nonsensical notion of "eternal revolution" just as much as he does patriarchy.

Also, getting impaled by swords in place of Anthy might have been Utena's unconscious choice, tv-Utena does have a pretty strong death wish when you get down to it. Movie Utena not so much.

I think the reason why Utena wins while everyone else (including Akio) fails is that she had a dream for the future, while all others merely had some anxiety about their past.

Last edited by Overlord Morgus (02-07-2012 11:37:26 AM)

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#4 | Back to Top06-07-2012 10:41:13 PM

Overlord Morgus
Ruthless Deflorist
Registered: 02-22-2011
Posts: 310

Re: I think the Power to Bring the World Revolution wasn't a sham

I'm going with the theory that the cycle exists to allow him to lick his own wounds. The rapier's an obvious metaphor for the futility of "noble" sentiments, and the worst thing that someone could do is succeed where he had failed. The only way for him to save face after everything that happened to him would be for everyone who tried to follow in his footsteps to not only fail but also be defeated by him.

Utena using her own hands instead of the rapier is a metaphor for the essence of heroism: putting yourself on the line rather than hiding behind titles on one hand and herd instinct on the other.

It's also notable that in the end, both elitism and the rabble sentiment are symbolized by swords; they both reduce to a fear of physical peril and a desire for social dominance. The only thing that differentiates the two is that one exploits or demeans self-sacrifice, while the other, possessing the safety of numbers, openly despises it.

Last edited by Overlord Morgus (06-07-2012 10:45:15 PM)

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#5 | Back to Top06-08-2012 10:22:19 AM

Overlord Morgus
Ruthless Deflorist
Registered: 02-22-2011
Posts: 310

Re: I think the Power to Bring the World Revolution wasn't a sham

You seem like a spambot, but your post also seems strangely relevant to my post. I'm thinking you've picked up on "lick his own wounds" as a keyword.

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#6 | Back to Top06-08-2012 01:16:20 PM

Honey Bear
Sunlit Gardener (Prelude)
From: England
Registered: 08-01-2011
Posts: 173
Website

Re: I think the Power to Bring the World Revolution wasn't a sham

I've kind of always thought of it as a Mirror of Erised. Only someone who didn't want the stone and its power could reach it. Therefore Akio who wanted the power of the revolution failed, whereas Utena- who only wanted to help her friend- succeeded.

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#7 | Back to Top06-08-2012 02:17:55 PM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1312
Website

Re: I think the Power to Bring the World Revolution wasn't a sham

The way I see it (thus how I wrote Seinen Kakumei) is that Anthy had the Power in her all along (thus the line "Power of Dios that Slumbered Within me"), but the Swords of Hate kept it pinned/restricted.  This Power is, I believe, more than the Black Rose Boys serving as "fuel", what's truly sustaining the Arena and the other fairy tale projections at Ohtori.  When Utena opened the Rose Gates, and revolutionized Anthy with her selfless friendship and/or self-sacrifice, I think the Power must've flowed rapidly out of Anthy and into Utena - to the point that Anthy lost her hold on the projections, leading to the Arena breaking and her falling out of Utena's grasp.

Whether Utena, then rushed by the Swords of Hate while in despair, will get to properly exercise the Power she earned or not, is up to open interpretation.


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 3 as of Sep 26, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#8 | Back to Top06-09-2012 08:23:59 PM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: I think the Power to Bring the World Revolution wasn't a sham

Here's a little mini-opinion I wrote on this subject once. Actually, I'm not sure I still think of it this way, but I definitely believe that the Power of Revolution is real.

---- The Coffin, and the Power of Revolution

Now, would the coffin still have been there, if Akio had somehow opened the door? There's really no answer to this, simply because it's a circular question. Akio couldn't open the door because he can't feel princely compassion, and doesn't believe in the ideals of nobility and mercy that the Rose Crest represents. To put it more simply, the only way to open the door is to sympathize with Anthy so much it brings you to tears, and to cherish the meanings of the Rose Crest enough to wear it always.

See, it's all a loop. The Power of Revolution truly exists, and it's everything it's played up to be, but the only way to obtain it is to open the Rose Gate, and the only way to do that is to want to save Anthy, and the only way to do that is to free Anthy's heart, and the only way to do that is to reach her, and the only way to do that is to use the Power of Revolution, and the only way to obtain the Power of Revolution is to open the Rose Gate, and the only way to do that...

That's the great irony. The only way to gain the Power of Revolution is to want to help Anthy so much that you would use the Power of Revolution for that purpose, and that's the only way to obtain it in the first place!

(This idea is even more explicit in the movie, as Anthy is clearly stated to be the keeper of that power, and only the one who becomes her prince can access it. Once she decides for herself that Utena is truly her prince, she offers "any miracle and any eternity" outright to Utena, but Utena has other ideas.)

So, the moment the gate opens, and the swords stop, Utena's deepest wish was granted. But what did Utena want more than anything? To free Anthy, of course, but not to force it on her. Utena learned that lesson at Touga's hands. She doesn't want to force Anthy, she just wants the chance to reach Anthy's heart, and for Anthy to come to her by her own choice.

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#9 | Back to Top06-10-2012 05:31:22 AM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 906

Re: I think the Power to Bring the World Revolution wasn't a sham

Overlord Morgus wrote:

So the interpretation we should take away from the ending scene is that Ohtori doesn't want to bring the world revolution, merely to play at it in perpetuity?

In retrospect, it's more likely he doesn't even know what he wants anymore. Does he want revolution? Does he want to stay in Ohtori forever? Does some last shred of goodness, deep within him, seek the same thing as Utena?

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#10 | Back to Top06-22-2012 09:19:46 PM

Overlord Morgus
Ruthless Deflorist
Registered: 02-22-2011
Posts: 310

Re: I think the Power to Bring the World Revolution wasn't a sham

In the last scene, when the million swords come up, Akio says that they're stirred by the sight of the prince's sword. One interpretation is that they're stirred by hatred, but if that were the case, they'd impale Akio. The fact that they form a pyramid with him on top, however, seems to indicate that Akio and his sword are in actuality the epitome of whatever they represent, that the swords are not attacking him, but rallying to him. The contrast between the neatness of the pyramid and the haphazard ring formation that they take up afterwards supports this. They do not act on their own intentions; rather, they are a representation of his anger at his emasculation, of his loss of power. He claims to hate the rabble, but they are nothing more than a reflection of his sublimated desires. The reality is that he wants Anthy to suffer for "imprisoning" him every bit as much as the rabble do.

Also, in the last scene, he slashes at a door with roses covering it, which compounds the misogynistic imagery.

And I think the real reason that Akio couldn't open the door at the end is that he didn't really have a wish. He really had everything he wanted: money, power, secret knowledge, and the ability to look down on everybody, he was too much of an unimaginative coward to plan out what he would do after he Revolutionized the World. Utena, on the other hand, had something coherent in mind, something to seek out.

If you take the Jesus allegory at the end, then you could maybe say that Utena's death was a sacrifice that redeemed Humanity's original sin of dependence and ressentiment, which is an inversion of Christian ideals. Jesus is killed by the Will to Power, while Utena is killed by the rabble's sublimated jealousy.

One thing that I notice is that every character besides Utena and Himemiya seems to have an obsession with perfection. They all need to be The Best or to have a Shining Thing.

Last edited by Overlord Morgus (06-23-2012 09:44:36 PM)

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