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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top11-26-2011 02:25:02 PM

april6e
New Student
Registered: 10-07-2011
Posts: 3

Can someone explain this scene to me?

This scene always confused me.

At first, I just thought it was an obvious sexual reference, that she was implying that they had a sexual relationship.

But then his quote afterwards (the second panel) completely baffles me. What in the world did he mean by that sentence?

http://4chanarchive.org/images/a/315125 … 925046.jpg

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#2 | Back to Top11-26-2011 07:50:37 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 906

Re: Can someone explain this scene to me?

Which scene? I'm getting a 404.

Although really, which scene couldn't this be applied to?

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#3 | Back to Top11-26-2011 09:54:55 PM

Rotten Mooring
Precious One
Registered: 10-26-2011
Posts: 281

Re: Can someone explain this scene to me?

Yeah, I'm getting 403: Forbidden.

I'm willing to bet though that if you describe the scene in a little more detail, 20 people will pop up knowing exactly what you're talking about. emot-wink

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#4 | Back to Top11-27-2011 12:29:21 AM

7scimitarroll
Wakaba Wrangler
Registered: 11-26-2011
Posts: 12
Website

Re: Can someone explain this scene to me?

I copy-pasted the URL into a new tab and the image worked just fine for me. I suspect 4chanarchive.org has some sort of script that blocks incoming links from other websites. The link goes to two stills from Episode 28, Utena's duel versus Ruka, and captures the following exchange from Ruka's defeat:

Shiori: Yeah, I polished your sword every day, didn't I?
Ruka: That wasn't my sword.

I thought it was referencing a scene earlier in the episode, when Ruka caught Shiori in the fencing locker room. The impression I got was that Ruka used the scene in the locker room to bait Shiori, giving her both a chance to confess her attraction and a false pretense to make herself look better while doing so. Because Shiori took both opportunities, Ruka could dump her at his convenience. I think that's what was going on. Is this helpful?

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#5 | Back to Top11-27-2011 01:03:28 AM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: Can someone explain this scene to me?

Mmm hmm, I think this is a case where a cigar... or polishing a sword... is just a cigar.  No sexual innuendo.  From the smitten way Shiori reacts to Ruka throughout this pair of episodes, I doubt they had a relationship before Ruka left.

Depending on your perspective, either Shiori is a contemptible liar for telling Ruka she polished his sword -- as emotional blackmail to keep him from leaving her, no less! -- or Ruka is a manipulative sociopath for intentionally giving her the opportunity to lie in order to defame her to Juri.  Duelists or no, I don't think either of them come out of it smelling like roses.  emot-frown

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#6 | Back to Top11-27-2011 05:14:25 AM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 906

Re: Can someone explain this scene to me?

I like Ruka.

That scene was sort of a test of character, to see if Shiori would take advantage of what he said in order to help herself. (Hint: She failed.)

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#7 | Back to Top11-27-2011 06:26:17 PM

KaleMarsh
High Tripper
From: Washington, DC
Registered: 06-13-2011
Posts: 245

Re: Can someone explain this scene to me?

Another reason to doubt any sexual innuendo involved is that, when the phrase comes up earlier, Shiori says she polished the sword while Ruka was away, which might be a little difficult.

Still, it's fair to be suspicious of everything in the context of SKU.

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#8 | Back to Top11-27-2011 07:12:33 PM

yuzukelly
Rose Smilee
Registered: 09-22-2010
Posts: 130

Re: Can someone explain this scene to me?

KaleMarsh wrote:

Shiori says she polished the sword while Ruka was away, which might be a little difficult.

not gonna lie i lol'd so hard XDD

but yeah, i always just took that at face value when she said that myself. just like her trying to manipulate him a little maybe "aww come onnn i've done SO MUCH FOR YOUUUU *cry cry cry*" etc. XD

I've always like ruka a whole bunch...he's one of my favorite characters... emot-keke

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#9 | Back to Top11-28-2011 12:52:27 PM

Makubi
Touga Topper
From: SE England
Registered: 10-19-2011
Posts: 56

Re: Can someone explain this scene to me?

satyreyes wrote:

Depending on your perspective, either Shiori is a contemptible liar for telling Ruka she polished his sword -- as emotional blackmail to keep him from leaving her, no less! -- or Ruka is a manipulative sociopath for intentionally giving her the opportunity to lie in order to defame her to Juri.  Duelists or no, I don't think either of them come out of it smelling like roses.  emot-frown

I don't think that Ruka can be classed totally as a sociopath; he does manipulate people but his ultimate goal seems to be securing Juri's happiness (or at the very least, helping her break out of her ''coffin''). The fact that he's also living on borrowed time would suggest that he wasn't doing this for his own personal gain (unlike some of the immortal cast members), however, this of course does not stop him from being a Magnificent Bastard. It is unclear as to why he uses the methods he does, perhaps because he believes a softly softly approach (such as one that might be favoured by say, Utena) simply wouldn't work against Juri.

A thought occurred to me whilst reading this thread: Is it possible that Ruka needed Shiori to fall in love with him? In each of the Apocalypse duels, the Bride/Groom of the duelist is someone to whom they have a strong emotional attachment or past history (Kozue/Touga/Ruka himself/Saionji). Is it possible that Ruka deliberately led Shiori into falling in love (or at least becoming attached) to him so that he could use her in the duel, before then going on to use her as a pawn against Juri?

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#10 | Back to Top11-28-2011 05:06:07 PM

thothptah
Ohtori Paramouri
Registered: 01-21-2010
Posts: 97

Re: Can someone explain this scene to me?

Makubi wrote:

A thought occurred to me whilst reading this thread: Is it possible that Ruka needed Shiori to fall in love with him? In each of the Apocalypse duels, the Bride/Groom of the duelist is someone to whom they have a strong emotional attachment or past history (Kozue/Touga/Ruka himself/Saionji). Is it possible that Ruka deliberately led Shiori into falling in love (or at least becoming attached) to him so that he could use her in the duel, before then going on to use her as a pawn against Juri?

I think there' definitely something to that. After the duel, Ruka even mentions "Ruka:  It's partially the Bride's fault that I lost" (from the scripts on ohtori.nu). I think he is perhaps reflecting on the lack of a real emotional bond between him and Shiori. I've also always wondered if it wasn't his intention to attempt to create a different type of emotional bond with Juri as the basis of their bride-duelist relationship, one based on hate or anger rather than love. Perhaps he thought that this would be a bond just as intense/strong as the bride-duelist relationship between Anthy and Utena (as a side note, I've always felt that the duels have almost nothing to do with sword-fighting).

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#11 | Back to Top11-29-2011 12:36:16 AM

KaleMarsh
High Tripper
From: Washington, DC
Registered: 06-13-2011
Posts: 245

Re: Can someone explain this scene to me?

It makes sense that Ruka needed Shiori's "love."  In the black rose arc, it is mentioned that the black rose duelists must have some sway over the hearts of the original duelists.  Since the symbol of the bond is similar--the removal of the sword--I would say the same rules ought to apply.  The shadow player girls also claim it's difficult to work together, and they hint at marital concepts during that particular schpiel.  Then, of course, the end of the series heavily suggests that it's the bond between Utena and Anthy that leads to success.

I'm sure I'm missing some more overt references, but that's what springs to mind at the moment.

Though, of course, if Ruka didn't think the duel with Shiori as rose bride would succeed in the first place, the question is whether or not he still needed Shiori's love for the duel?  I'd say that the prerequisite action of drawing the sword is still there, so it's likely.  The depths of her desperation/lust, however, was probably overkill solely for the purpose of pissing off Juri.

I also don't think Ruka intended to win the second duel, but the idea that he's experimenting with the strengths of other bonds is an intriguing one that I hadn't considered.

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