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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top10-07-2011 06:43:53 PM

april6e
New Student
Registered: 10-07-2011
Posts: 3

Help me understand one of my favorite anime series. *Spoilers*

I watched this show a few years ago, besides the unbearable filler episodes, it is one of my favorite animes of all time. You could have an entire college course on all the hidden meanings and secrets in this anime, it was so deep.

I personally suck at analysis however, and barely can follow the plot, let alone make deep inferences. I was browsing threads on this website a year ago, looking at all the analysis threads you guys made. You guys enlightened me to many plot points I completely missed. I still have questions though, so could you clear them up for me?

1. Anthy is Mimiya? Can you explain why this is?

2. Many threads on this site claim that Akio and Touga are sexual beasts and do anything that moves. I agree, though some people claim that Saionji and Touga had a homosexual relationship, or at least had sex. I completely and utterly disagree, while their relationship is homoerotic, that scene where they are in bed during that one episode was more of them "playing around" than confirming that they had sex. Can you explain why people think they had any sort of sexual relationship?

3. Who was Utena's prince? Who was the person who saved her from drowning in that river as a child? I was confused on whether it was Dios or Akio.

4. Who is Dios? Who is that person who "possesses" Utena so that she wins her duels? It looks like Mamiya but isn't Mamiya dead? And he looks nothing like Akio.

5. Some people claim that Akio creates illusions with his projector. While an amazing analysis, how does that explain Utena's "possession" moments where Dios helps her win duels?

6. This isn't a question but.... Juri is amazing. Anthy and Ruka are sluts. Akio is who I aspire to be when I grow up. Utena was amazing until she broke her own high moral code by sleeping with Akio. I wish I could marry Wakaba.


I have a million more questions but I'll ask them later once I look back over the Utena wiki and remind myself of all the unanswered questions at the end of the series.

4.

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#2 | Back to Top10-07-2011 11:12:59 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8728
Website

Re: Help me understand one of my favorite anime series. *Spoilers*

I seriously just wrote a mile long post and magically closed the window because I'm a retard. So for now I'm only reanswering a couple because I'm ANGRY!!!

april6e wrote:

1. Anthy is Mimiya? Can you explain why this is?

4. Who is Dios? Who is that person who "possesses" Utena so that she wins her duels? It looks like Mamiya but isn't Mamiya dead? And he looks nothing like Akio.

These two kinda relate to each other.

Anthy is Mamiya based on this sequence at the end of the arc:

http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/9738-1/Series_ep23_225.jpg
http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/9742-1/Series_ep23_227.jpg

Also it follows based on Mamiya in the present looking strangely like a female Anthy. As to WHY, well it would appear to have given Akio and Anthy a manipulative advantage to have Mikage controlled directly by such an influential shadow of his past.

The REAL Mamiya is dead. The real Mamiya is the brown haired boy that appears during Mikage's duel. Mikage has so accepted the illusion of the Mamiya we see at the present that he's forgotten what Mamiya originally looked like. That's why the flashbacks initially show the brown skinned boy--Mikage remembers it that way. The photograph on the desks during his duel changes as his 'remembers', starting with this:

http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/9566-1/Series_ep23_139.jpg

And turning into this:

http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/9674-1/Series_ep23_193.jpg

As this processes in his mind, you also see how his memories revert to their original truth, the Mamiya of his present being replaced/recalled to be the original:

http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/9670-1/Series_ep23_191.jpg

http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/9712-1/Series_ep23_212.jpg

The real Mamiya is dead. This is why Tokiko comes, literally, to visit his grave. (That she makes a pit stop at Akio's is...suspicious, for a presumably happily married woman.)

As for the Dios thing, he looks like Akio in that he has dark skin and silver hair and their outfits kind of match. The dark skin color is a big red flag in this show, since only the supernatural magic wonder siblings Akio and Anthy have it--any other time you see that skin, it's actually one of them presenting themselves differently. The Dios Utena meets in her past is Akio presenting himself as the prince part of him that's long since died. The Dios that helps Utena win her duels...well that's up to you. The show doesn't really say whether he's part of Akio's projection of the arena, magic on Anthy's part, or the real deal embodied in Utena and manifesting visually. It doesn't even really confirm if anyone else sees the figure--Touga and Ruka both make an effort to observe whatever happens to Utena that makes her keep winning, but they don't say they saw some dude fly down and take over Utena's body.

april6e wrote:

5. Some people claim that Akio creates illusions with his projector. While an amazing analysis, how does that explain Utena's "possession" moments where Dios helps her win duels?

Akio claims he creates illusions with his projector in the second to last episode, which is where we get that. He could be completely full of crap and it wouldn't be the first time. Aside from that comment the show doesn't give you more to stand on directly there. He could be telling the truth, or he could not need it at all and just like the symbol. He could need Anthy's power to draw from, and just have the ability to give it form. In the end, that detail is up to the viewer. Convincing arguments can be made from several sides.

Furthermore, we aren't told directly that the the possession moments are part of the illusion. That's also for you to decide--it is worth noting however that what goes on in the arena isn't only Akio's to decide. His arc begins with the sword of Dios vanishing--and not on his authority, given his reaction.

Your question 4 seems to kinda crash the movie and show together. Utena's prince is Dios in the show, and has nothing to do with the drowning girl. That's the movie. emot-smile

And I'm not sure who you're asking about with the sexual relationships--I don't think anyone assumes Touga and Saionji actually have sex. We assume Akio and Touga do just because it so makes sense given their personalities. Also, this shot looks so obviously like a man riding another man's lap that it's hard to assume we're not supposed to see it that way.

http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/10562-2/Series_ep25_259.jpg


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
Chiefest of Calamities

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#3 | Back to Top10-08-2011 06:18:18 AM

wblstudios
Banned
Registered: 08-17-2011
Posts: 564

Re: Help me understand one of my favorite anime series. *Spoilers*

The biggest thing to remember when trying to explain Utena, is that some of the stuff isn't meant to be explained.  It's there for arthouse purposes.

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