You are not logged in.

Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top06-08-2011 12:14:27 PM

artemis88
Mikage Mistruster
Registered: 05-05-2011
Posts: 66

I don't understand..

I don't understand the fangirling over the men in this series..

maybe it's just because I'm a lesbian (no actually, it can't be that at all..there are plenty of male characters I admire in other works of art) but almost every male character in the Utena Universe is repulsive in some way.

I know that straight women tend to go crazy over bishounen, but still emot-redface . isn't Akio, Ruka and Saionji's cruelty offputting? Touga and Miki are less so I think (I haven't quite finished watching the series yet, I've seen the film, and I haven't started on the manga yet) but still not terribly likeable characters.. etc..

It's brilliant, because in most fairy tales/mythology women are portrayed as evil (the evil stepmother/sister, the evil witch, Eve etc..) but in Utena conventional misogyny & abuse are not hidden and nearly all of the traditional roles are turned on their head. .

and yet, fangirls endlessly defend the bishies.. emot-confused why?

Offline

 

#2 | Back to Top06-08-2011 12:45:18 PM

Leeg
Juri Jeerer
From: Spain
Registered: 02-10-2010
Posts: 49
Website

Re: I don't understand..

artemis88 wrote:

I don't understand the fangirling over the men in this series..
.isn't Akio, Ruka and Saionji's cruelty offputting? Touga and Miki are less so I think (I haven't quite finished watching the series ...

artemis88 wrote:

Touga and Miki are less so I think (I haven't quite finished watching the series ...

artemis88 wrote:

Touga

Oh... Touga is less... WHAT? Finish the sereis inmediatly... Surprise ahead.

And yes, every men character in Utena is repulsive and sexist, well, even some women in the series are sexist too.

Last edited by Leeg (06-08-2011 12:46:55 PM)

Offline

 

#3 | Back to Top06-08-2011 12:47:02 PM

innermuse
Anthy Assailer
From: In my own little world
Registered: 11-16-2010
Posts: 77
Website

Re: I don't understand..

Yeah i can where you are coming from, most of the guys you really wanna punch in the face ( cough Saionji cough, akio...) then again if really think of it most of the people in utena are pretty messed up even utena herself. You know who is the real winner ( except when he is violated by that frog...) Chu chu. Chu chu is winning.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/elfgirl/winning.jpg

Last edited by innermuse (06-08-2011 12:52:56 PM)

Offline

 

#4 | Back to Top06-08-2011 01:00:41 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8730
Website

Re: I don't understand..

If we define 'fangirling' as 'the irrational childish adoration of a character best summarized with :3 and WIBBLE', then the only character who is a target of fangirling on the forum is Saionji. He, I think, appeals to a sense of nurturing where a sufficient number of hugs and cookies will melt away the backhands and reveal an adorable bristly guy with sharp objects and a bit of a domination thing.

The rest of the male cast has fans, but I don't think we exactly 'fangirl' over them. That's me, with my big honkin' Akio shrine, saying that really, I don't consider myself a fangirl. I certainly wouldn't be wanting to get into a long term relationship with him, and I don't think I CAN CHANGE HIM, which is often, judging by the fanfics and such, the point of attraction to cruel characters. Really, though...you need to finish the show if you class Ruka and Saionji as more cruel than Touga. emot-wink

And hey, if you ask me, Juri is more cruel than any of them. She'd treat you like garbage, know she's doing it, and feel like you need to weather her wrath to prove your loyalty or some crap. She's as destructive a relationship as any of them. school-freud


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
Chiefest of Calamities

Offline

 

#5 | Back to Top06-08-2011 01:14:26 PM

artemis88
Mikage Mistruster
Registered: 05-05-2011
Posts: 66

Re: I don't understand..

innermuse wrote:

Yeah i can where you are coming from, most of the guys you really wanna punch in the face ( cough Saionji cough, akio...) then again if really think of it most of the people in utena are pretty messed up even utena herself. You know who is the real winner ( except when he is violated by that frog...) Chu chu. Chu chu is winning.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/e … inning.jpg

LOL true
also except for when he gets eaten in the movie ;_; poor Chuchu xD

Offline

 

#6 | Back to Top06-08-2011 01:18:32 PM

artemis88
Mikage Mistruster
Registered: 05-05-2011
Posts: 66

Re: I don't understand..

Giovanna wrote:

If we define 'fangirling' as 'the irrational childish adoration of a character best summarized with :3 and WIBBLE', then the only character who is a target of fangirling on the forum is Saionji. He, I think, appeals to a sense of nurturing where a sufficient number of hugs and cookies will melt away the backhands and reveal an adorable bristly guy with sharp objects and a bit of a domination thing.

The rest of the male cast has fans, but I don't think we exactly 'fangirl' over them. That's me, with my big honkin' Akio shrine, saying that really, I don't consider myself a fangirl. I certainly wouldn't be wanting to get into a long term relationship with him, and I don't think I CAN CHANGE HIM, which is often, judging by the fanfics and such, the point of attraction to cruel characters. Really, though...you need to finish the show if you class Ruka and Saionji as more cruel than Touga. emot-wink

And hey, if you ask me, Juri is more cruel than any of them. She'd treat you like garbage, know she's doing it, and feel like you need to weather her wrath to prove your loyalty or some crap. She's as destructive a relationship as any of them. school-freud

hmm, that makes sense. the idea that really there's a good person somewhere there underneath all the awful.  which I suppose in Saionji's case probably has a grain of truth to it, despite his woman-beating tendencies. I can't wait to finish the series, but I'm also kind of dreading the ending!

Akio is a fascinating character, too. like someone said in another thread he's like the perfect anthropomorphization of the devil, a charismatic sociopath driving a fast car

I respectfully disagree with you about Juri. To me she comes across as cold at times, but she's quite kind beneath the broken, ice queen exterior. Definitely cruel at times but never more so than Akio for instance

but there's no perfect character I guess
not even Utena ;_; not sure how I'm going to handle the episode where she sleeps with Akio. unfortunately I came across that spoiler somehow, actually it's probably good that I found out that way :s else I might have yelled at my tv emot-gonk I still might

Last edited by artemis88 (06-08-2011 06:47:37 PM)

Offline

 

#7 | Back to Top06-08-2011 03:26:29 PM

chrisb
Eternal Eschatologist
From: Tx,USA
Registered: 01-18-2010
Posts: 956

Re: I don't understand..

When they're animated, bastards can be really endearing lol. They keep the show interesting and it's a good way to fantasize without dealing with real asses. IRL Shiori would be the girl you want to kick in the head, but since she's just a cartoon her evil is somehow sexy and enticing.


http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a358/clow987/Christmas2011SSSigGift.png

Offline

 

#8 | Back to Top06-08-2011 05:35:41 PM

HonorableShadow
Cow Bellhop
From: Ohio
Registered: 11-03-2006
Posts: 471
Website

Re: I don't understand..

Yeah I agree.  The only guys I like in the show are Mikage (my favorite character!), Mamiya, Miki and Mitsuru (I really hope I didn't butcher his name, I never get it right!)  Maybe it's something about M names. emot-tongue And of course Chu Chu. XD I find the rest of the guys seriously off-putting, I can't stand them.  Mikage has his bastard moments too of course, but I just end up feeling sorry for him more than anything.

Last edited by HonorableShadow (06-08-2011 05:40:12 PM)


Rose tint my world...
Keep me safe from my trouble and pain.

Offline

 

#9 | Back to Top06-08-2011 06:16:29 PM

Android raptor
Rose Smilee
From: North GA, USA
Registered: 08-11-2009
Posts: 126
Website

Re: I don't understand..

I agree with Gio about Juri so much. To be honest, I think the reason the guys are such douchebags is because everyone is a douchebag in some way, shape, or form in Utena (yes, even Miki). That's one thing I love about the series. They're all horrendously fucked-up people which makes them quite fascinating and endearing school-eng101

I do, however, think the fangirling Touga, Ruka, etc get that denies their flaws and heightens those of other characters (coughSHIORIcough) is repulsive. I think a bitch would get drop kicked and laughed at if they tried it here (which is why I love you guys), though I see it plenty on other places. Draco in Leather Pants, etc.

Offline

 

#10 | Back to Top06-08-2011 07:11:13 PM

artemis88
Mikage Mistruster
Registered: 05-05-2011
Posts: 66

Re: I don't understand..

Android raptor wrote:

I agree with Gio about Juri so much. To be honest, I think the reason the guys are such douchebags is because everyone is a douchebag in some way, shape, or form in Utena (yes, even Miki). That's one thing I love about the series. They're all horrendously fucked-up people which makes them quite fascinating and endearing school-eng101

true that! I still don't think that Juri is the cruelest by any means but the whole cast is flawed to varying degrees.. makes it all the more fascinating

I do, however, think the fangirling Touga, Ruka, etc get that denies their flaws and heightens those of other characters (coughSHIORIcough) is repulsive. I think a bitch would get drop kicked and laughed at if they tried it here (which is why I love you guys), though I see it plenty on other places. Draco in Leather Pants, etc.

Definitely .. I'm very happy to see it's not really the case here

Offline

 

#11 | Back to Top06-08-2011 07:47:42 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: I don't understand..

...Yeah, I'm with Raptor.  Pretty much everyone in Utena is deeply problematic, whether male or female.  Utena herself is no exception.  What makes her special is that she's trying to be the best person she can be, in spite of her own inner confusions.  That makes her different from Ohtori's other women as well as its men.

One idea that might be relevant is the way SKU conflates sex with "adulthood," and "adulthood" with corruption.  There are a few male characters who are not obviously jerkwads -- Mitsuru, Miki, perhaps Tatsuya -- but they're not sexy bishies!  The bishies are all assholes.  (Because to be sexual is to be corrupt.)  The show's basic choices about symbolism make it difficult or impossible for Utena to have a bishounen character who's nice.  If I were a straight fangirl, I might be frustrated too!  Since I'm a straight fanboy, I have it easier; Utena and Wakaba are the nicest characters in the show.  emot-smile

I don't think there's anything wrong with "defending" the likes of Saionji and Touga, though.  They're complex characters, and they need defenders as well as detractors.  I like both of them.  Yeah, Saionji hits women; yeah, Touga lies to women and seduces them.  If SKU were real life, you wouldn't want to date either of them.  But partly because this is fiction, we're free to explore why they're such assholes, and in the process we humanize them and find qualities about them that we relate to.  Saionji is insecure and takes his anxiety out on the people around him.  I get that; I've been there.  Touga is an egotist who asserts his power over others by using and warping them.  That's less relatable, but then Utena beats the crap out of him, and Akio outmaneuvers him, and you see his preconceptions about his superiority being challenged and cracked, and that part is relatable.  They're interesting.  They make you want to write fics about them.  In short, they're assholes worth fangirling over.  emot-smile  At least, I hope so!

Offline

 

#12 | Back to Top06-08-2011 11:26:45 PM

OnlyInThisLight
KING OF ALL DUCKS
Registered: 01-15-2008
Posts: 4411

Re: I don't understand..

Don't let Sat's somewhat introspective and thoughtful discourse fool you.   HE FANGURLS.

Offline

 

#13 | Back to Top06-08-2011 11:35:14 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: I don't understand..

Damn right.  etc-love

Squee!

Offline

 

#14 | Back to Top06-09-2011 12:11:02 AM

SleepDebtFairy
Revolutionary
From: Virginia
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2095

Re: I don't understand..

Most of the fans I've met here that are fans of the male anime characters don't take it to such an extreme level that fans of other animes do.. but then again, this forum is probably home to all the coolest Utena/anime nerds. (:

I never really got into any of the male characters in Utena, though, and I'm straight. Even Miki I didn't like, because he's so repressed.

But then again, my favorite character is Anthy, and she's not exactly a sugar plum fairy. etc-love I think I'm just not attracted to overly misogynistic guys. They can kill people or whatever, but so help me if they hit a woman! Hah. Then again, so many male characters in anime are subtly misogynistic, or "noble," and "gentlemanly," in some way, so its refreshing that these characters' flaws are not sugar-coated.

Ruka would the the closest to my male favorite, but I know he can be a real jerk too, and forcing himself on Juri was totally not cool either. But I still like him. That doesn't mean I support guys forcing themselves on women or anything. He's just a fictional character who's very interesting to me.

But as characters themselves, I think they're all interesting for the amount of depth the series gives them, and like all the characters, they're all very very realistic, fucked up, and fun to analyze!

Last edited by SleepDebtFairy (06-09-2011 12:20:38 AM)


"There’s no starting over, no new beginnings, time races on
And you've just gotta keep on keeping on"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v84/Tushen/cupcake_mini2.gif

Offline

 

#15 | Back to Top06-09-2011 12:59:00 AM

Dognog
Friend, Perhaps
From: TN
Registered: 06-06-2011
Posts: 333

Re: I don't understand..

I like all the characters in some way actually emot-biggrin

Utena's really cute and she wants to do nice things and...I guess she's really confused sometimes, too. And Akio...is Akio. I think I like him because he acts like he does. Not that I would want to associate with him or anything. And I sorta feel bad for Utena being led on or whatever, but..


"DOGNOG: He's got a fiancee, hoes, and freaks with his sister. He is the original PIMP."

Offline

 

#16 | Back to Top06-09-2011 01:26:23 AM

PrettyPeopleWithSwords
Rose Smilee
Registered: 05-26-2010
Posts: 131

Re: I don't understand..

I'm straight and didn't really crush on any of the dudes either. Mostly because I dig muscles and don't really dig long hair. Or mutant forelocks.

Akio has a sexy voice at least. emot-biggrin

Offline

 

#17 | Back to Top06-09-2011 02:01:22 AM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: I don't understand..

PrettyPeopleWithSwords wrote:

I'm straight and didn't really crush on any of the dudes either. Mostly because I dig muscles and don't really dig long hair. Or mutant forelocks.

Hehe, if the upperclassmen were all a foot shorter we'd probably think Ohtori was an all-girls school.  emot-smile

Offline

 

#18 | Back to Top06-09-2011 02:44:29 AM

Ashnod
La poétesse revolutionnaire
From: Missouri, United States
Registered: 03-01-2007
Posts: 1243
Website

Re: I don't understand..

Giovanna wrote:

And hey, if you ask me, Juri is more cruel than any of them. She'd treat you like garbage, know she's doing it, and feel like you need to weather her wrath to prove your loyalty or some crap. She's as destructive a relationship as any of them. school-freud

You take that back! emot-mad


Flowers without names blooming in the field can only sway in the wind. But I was born with a destiny of roses, born to live in passion and glory.

http://www.dark-kingdom.org/Gallery/osrgbanner.PNG
Hat Mafia Member: Little Dark Poet

Offline

 

#19 | Back to Top06-09-2011 03:05:44 AM

Randamonian
Rose Bride
From: Australia
Registered: 11-07-2010
Posts: 102

Re: I don't understand..

Oh my gosh, I canNOT believe this thread. Srsly, I thought you were all cool. emot-aaa The guys in this series are totally hot and so manry! Especially Miki. Did you see the movie?! He had longer hair and he looked so cute and dishy - kinda girly, but that's just what I go for. emot-keke  Miki is like the sexiest anime character in existence and you all suck for not realising that. Oh well, more chance for me!!! Saionji is pretty hot too, but not as hot as Miki. he's got that whole Japanese fierce goodlookingness and he looks so cool in a kimono. Remember Utena when she said "Nice skirt Saionji" ??? OMG, I wanted to leap into the show and beat some sense into her. (I totally wish I could jump into the show all the time!) Saionji has that whole 'broken' backstory to him. he has angst. It's what makes him so attractive to me. Oh, and the ponytail too. Ponytails turn me on. I always put my hair into a ponytail because they're the best look eva and everyone should do it too. Maybe not actually, then I wouldn't look distictive enough. Not that ponytails ARE distinctive. But they are hot. You agree right? Anyway, what were we talking about? Oh yeah, the bishonen in this series. GOSH, all of them are. Mitsuuru is really cute and even thogh he's only 10 or whatever, he's still good looking. I wish I could be 10 and not 19, go into that school and hang out with him. But he has Nanami[COW!] and wouldn't pay attention to me. emot-gonk There's always Mikage. His long pink hair is so manly and attractive. Bobs are really cute, guys don't really suit it all that well, (well they should put them into sexy japanese samurai ponytail things) but Mikage totally wears that hairstyle. It always looks perfect and pink. I like pink. In fact, if Miki had pink hair or him and Mikage had a child that looked like a combination of the two, I'd be in heaven. Mikage has a pretty angsty backstory too. And he's kinda gay too. Angst and yaoi is just like chocolate and milk, the perfect combination. Mamiya is boring though and Mikage shouldn't be with him. Im so confused. i love my yaoi but if one's ugly then I get so put off. Hmm, okay, i think ruka and Mikage would be the epiccest yaoi couple this show could do. Ruka has that whole Seme loe thing going on and mikage doesn't really suit uke, but if there can't be two semes. that totally doesn't work. FANFICTION FUEL!!! Totally gonna so this, put it up when i'm done. Anyway, this show guys are totally hot, and I DISAGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU ALL SAY. BLAH! emot-tongue





...


I'm sorry. I had to do it. emot-biggrin I always have to be the opposite view. In all seriousness, I can't think of a single character I'd ever want a relationship with.

Offline

 

#20 | Back to Top06-09-2011 06:45:15 AM

chrisb
Eternal Eschatologist
From: Tx,USA
Registered: 01-18-2010
Posts: 956

Re: I don't understand..

Android raptor wrote:

To be honest, I think the reason the guys are such douchebags is because everyone is a douchebag in some way, shape, or form in Utena (yes, even Miki).

Hm? I recall Miki having issues and being a little selfish, but I don't recall him being a douchebaag at all. It's been a while since I've seen the Miki episodes and my love for Aya Hisakawa may have blinded me to some of Miki's faults.


http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a358/clow987/Christmas2011SSSigGift.png

Offline

 

#21 | Back to Top06-09-2011 06:59:21 AM

Android raptor
Rose Smilee
From: North GA, USA
Registered: 08-11-2009
Posts: 126
Website

Re: I don't understand..

Except Miki is self-righteous, and has all the makings of a benevolent sexist (which is still sexism). Of course he was raised to be that way, but still. No one is without faults, not even him.

Offline

 

#22 | Back to Top06-09-2011 09:19:07 PM

PrettyPeopleWithSwords
Rose Smilee
Registered: 05-26-2010
Posts: 131

Re: I don't understand..

This topic has me curious . . . I don't read the forums a TON so someone else will have to fill me in: Which of the female characters gets fanboyed/girled over the most? Juri I'm guessing?

Offline

 

#23 | Back to Top06-10-2011 08:50:25 PM

artemis88
Mikage Mistruster
Registered: 05-05-2011
Posts: 66

Re: I don't understand..

PrettyPeopleWithSwords wrote:

This topic has me curious . . . I don't read the forums a TON so someone else will have to fill me in: Which of the female characters gets fanboyed/girled over the most? Juri I'm guessing?

I can definitely see Juri being fangirled over..

but emot-redface  I'm probably just as bad a fangirl as any when it comes to Utena and Anthy  emot-rofl

Last edited by artemis88 (06-10-2011 10:01:41 PM)

Offline

 

#24 | Back to Top06-11-2011 04:43:20 PM

Dani
IRG Messiah
From: Virginia, USA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 361

Re: I don't understand..

artemis88 wrote:

but emot-redface  I'm probably just as bad a fangirl as any when it comes to Utena and Anthy  emot-rofl

Yep, Utena and Anthy, the dynamic duo for me.

Offline

 

#25 | Back to Top06-11-2011 09:23:31 PM

crystalwren
Dark Whisperer
From: Brisbane
Registered: 04-21-2009
Posts: 1172
Website

Re: I don't understand..

Randamonian wrote:

Oh my gosh, I canNOT believe this thread. Srsly, I thought you were all cool. emot-aaa The guys in this series are totally hot and so manry! Especially Miki. Did you see the movie?! He had longer hair and he looked so cute and dishy - kinda girly, but that's just what I go for. emot-keke  Miki is like the sexiest anime character in existence and you all suck for not realising that. Oh well, more chance for me!!! Saionji is pretty hot too, but not as hot as Miki. he's got that whole Japanese fierce goodlookingness and he looks so cool in a kimono. Remember Utena when she said "Nice skirt Saionji" ??? OMG, I wanted to leap into the show and beat some sense into her. (I totally wish I could jump into the show all the time!) Saionji has that whole 'broken' backstory to him. he has angst. It's what makes him so attractive to me. Oh, and the ponytail too. Ponytails turn me on. I always put my hair into a ponytail because they're the best look eva and everyone should do it too. Maybe not actually, then I wouldn't look distictive enough. Not that ponytails ARE distinctive. But they are hot. You agree right? Anyway, what were we talking about? Oh yeah, the bishonen in this series. GOSH, all of them are. Mitsuuru is really cute and even thogh he's only 10 or whatever, he's still good looking. I wish I could be 10 and not 19, go into that school and hang out with him. But he has Nanami[COW!] and wouldn't pay attention to me. emot-gonk There's always Mikage. His long pink hair is so manly and attractive. Bobs are really cute, guys don't really suit it all that well, (well they should put them into sexy japanese samurai ponytail things) but Mikage totally wears that hairstyle. It always looks perfect and pink. I like pink. In fact, if Miki had pink hair or him and Mikage had a child that looked like a combination of the two, I'd be in heaven. Mikage has a pretty angsty backstory too. And he's kinda gay too. Angst and yaoi is just like chocolate and milk, the perfect combination. Mamiya is boring though and Mikage shouldn't be with him. Im so confused. i love my yaoi but if one's ugly then I get so put off. Hmm, okay, i think ruka and Mikage would be the epiccest yaoi couple this show could do. Ruka has that whole Seme loe thing going on and mikage doesn't really suit uke, but if there can't be two semes. that totally doesn't work. FANFICTION FUEL!!! Totally gonna so this, put it up when i'm done. Anyway, this show guys are totally hot, and I DISAGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU ALL SAY. BLAH! emot-tongue





...


I'm sorry. I had to do it. emot-biggrin I always have to be the opposite view. In all seriousness, I can't think of a single character I'd ever want a relationship with.

Close, close, but you fell down on two major things. One,you didn't use the word 'like' enough, and two, you used too much punctuation. You remembered to capitalise your 'I's and opened and closed sentences. Otherwise, quite good. emot-biggrin

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB 1.2.23
© Copyright 2002–2008 PunBB
Forum styled and maintained by Giovanna and Yasha
Return to Empty Movement