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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top03-25-2011 10:52:52 AM

Anthiena
Egghead
From: ...the space between your ears
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 1107

The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

Do you have a small set of facts that don't really add up to an essay? Or just small clarifications? This is the place for it.

1.  I do believe that someone noted that one of the songs that a mention translated as "Paris" should have been translated as "Pyrrus". It seems like a small change but think about it: From Paris, who fought in the Trojan War (and semi-mythical) to the very real Pyrrus, who was known for wins that came at such losses that "...another win like that will ruin us."

2.  Spira Mirabilius Theatre is the proper name for Miki's duel-because the first two words are actually Latin-and mistranslated by King Records. (Nothing new about that)

The Latin means either "Marvelous Spiral" or "Miraculous Spiral" and refers to a real spiral. Read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithmic_spiral

Last edited by Anthiena (03-25-2011 10:56:50 AM)


I stopped seeking to be sought after. That wasn't being true to myself.
I want to become someone who can exercise power. I want to become a prince. - Ikuni

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#2 | Back to Top03-29-2011 04:58:15 PM

teyhy
High Tripper
From: Ecuador
Registered: 04-27-2010
Posts: 245
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Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

Something I've notice but didn't think was worth an essay is that we only see Utena crying in Anthy-related situations (Ep. 34, Ep. 12, Ep. 38)

Something else is that Ohtori seems like an expensive school for rich kids. So, either Utena's parents left her a good inheritance or she earned a scholarship?


Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - H. Berlioz.
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad133/teyhy/for%20fo/Untitled-1copy.jpg?t=1280266589

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#3 | Back to Top03-30-2011 12:55:02 AM

Randamonian
Rose Bride
From: Australia
Registered: 11-07-2010
Posts: 102

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

^ I wonder how the hell Saionji got in then. Kendo scholarship?

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#4 | Back to Top03-30-2011 02:17:24 AM

Dallbun
Tour Guide to Crawling Chaos
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 689

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

Randamonian wrote:

^ I wonder how the hell Saionji got in then. Kendo scholarship?

Hair scholarship.

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#5 | Back to Top03-30-2011 02:20:38 AM

Priscilla
Saionji Slapper
From: Las Vegas
Registered: 03-25-2011
Posts: 21

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

Nanami's first duel episode has a flachback to her and Touga's (adoptive) parents. Maybe it's just me but I got this implication that Touga was the favorite, and Nanami was aware of this. Of coure since's it's Nanami we're talking about, it's possible that's only how she remembers it.

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#6 | Back to Top03-31-2011 01:27:16 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

Randamonian wrote:

^ I wonder how the hell Saionji got in then. Kendo scholarship?

Gio, Yasha, and I were speculating about that during the road trip down from New Orleans.  We came up with two explanations, both of which ring true, individually or in conjunction.

1. He's nobility.  Saionji is a very unusual surname, belonging mostly to members of an old para-royal family from before the nobility disappeared after World War II.  That kind of thing might carry weight with the Ohtori admissions staff, and would explain Saionji's traditional orientation.

2. Touga got him in.  They've been friends for a long time, and Touga's family is rich as shit.  Maybe he pulled some strings to get Saionji a scholarship.  Not as altruistic as it sounds: think how Saionji must feel knowing that Touga is the only reason he can go to Ohtori.  Mmmmm.

Last edited by satyreyes (03-31-2011 01:30:38 PM)

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#7 | Back to Top04-08-2011 03:04:17 PM

thothptah
Ohtori Paramouri
Registered: 01-21-2010
Posts: 97

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

Wow, I can't believe I never noticed, but the dress that chibi-Utena wears in the opening flashback in the series is the same dress that movie!Anthy wears in the scene (around minute 26) where Akio is explaining to Touga over the phone about how the mob stormed the castle emot-aaa Now that's an interesting parallel.

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#8 | Back to Top04-08-2011 11:15:45 PM

Randamonian
Rose Bride
From: Australia
Registered: 11-07-2010
Posts: 102

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

It's the uniform of princesses.

http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/17762-2/Prince_Story_003.jpg
http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/23591-1/Movie_Screen_0355.jpg

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#9 | Back to Top04-08-2011 11:45:43 PM

OnlyInThisLight
KING OF ALL DUCKS
Registered: 01-15-2008
Posts: 4411

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

So, like, five seconds ago I was thinking about Mikage's secretary's outfit, and how the colors were a darker version/inverse of Anthy's outfit when she left Ohtori, then checked up on it and realized I was wrong, she was wearing (including the oddly large, suitcase) all the colors of a Black Rose Duelist - dark, royal blue, white, and a deep magenta.  Not to mention it bears a striking resemblance to Tokiko's color scheme and the dark blue dress suit she wears when she returns to Ohtori, including a similar white, square purse.  Neat.

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#10 | Back to Top04-08-2011 11:54:38 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

OnlyInThisLight wrote:

So, like, five seconds ago I was thinking about Mikage's secretary's outfit, and how the colors were a darker version/inverse of Anthy's outfit when she left Ohtori, then checked up on it and realized I was wrong, she was wearing (including the oddly large, suitcase) all the colors of a Black Rose Duelist - dark, royal blue, white, and a deep magenta.  Not to mention it bears a striking resemblance to Tokiko's color scheme and the dark blue dress suit she wears when she returns to Ohtori, including a similar white, square purse.  Neat.

I actually thought the secretary was Tokiko for a while because they look so close.  She's not Tokiko, but the resemblance is clear, and I think we're supposed to be confused, since the real Tokiko is prowling around campus at about that time.

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#11 | Back to Top04-16-2011 02:50:14 PM

Katzenklavier
Wondrous Sexual Eggplant.
From: Back of your thoughts.
Registered: 09-13-2008
Posts: 1120

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

I actually thought the secretary was Tokiko for a while because they look so close.  She's not Tokiko, but the resemblance is clear, and I think we're supposed to be confused, since the real Tokiko is prowling around campus at about that time.

I thought that was a very interesting little detail. Mikage was desperately trying to recapture his past obsession. As Akio noted, his unwillingness to develop is what turned him into a phantom. The secretary had obviously been charmed by him - possibly in love. But perhaps when he switched his attentions to Utena as the new incarnate of Tokiko, his interest in manipulating her waned. Whatever the explanation, her resemblance Tokiko certainly wasn't an accident.


We must go forward, not backward. Upward, not forward. And always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.

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#12 | Back to Top04-16-2011 03:49:10 PM

OnlyInThisLight
KING OF ALL DUCKS
Registered: 01-15-2008
Posts: 4411

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

Katzenklavier wrote:

I actually thought the secretary was Tokiko for a while because they look so close.  She's not Tokiko, but the resemblance is clear, and I think we're supposed to be confused, since the real Tokiko is prowling around campus at about that time.

I thought that was a very interesting little detail. Mikage was desperately trying to recapture his past obsession. As Akio noted, his unwillingness to develop is what turned him into a phantom. The secretary had obviously been charmed by him - possibly in love. But perhaps when he switched his attentions to Utena as the new incarnate of Tokiko, his interest in manipulating her waned. Whatever the explanation, her resemblance Tokiko certainly wasn't an accident.

I love that secretary.  Just flippantly telling her ex-employer that he's a cold-hearted child-molester.   Ah, so many bosses I would love to tell off.

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#13 | Back to Top04-16-2011 04:44:46 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

OnlyInThisLight wrote:

Katzenklavier wrote:

I actually thought the secretary was Tokiko for a while because they look so close.  She's not Tokiko, but the resemblance is clear, and I think we're supposed to be confused, since the real Tokiko is prowling around campus at about that time.

I thought that was a very interesting little detail. Mikage was desperately trying to recapture his past obsession. As Akio noted, his unwillingness to develop is what turned him into a phantom. The secretary had obviously been charmed by him - possibly in love. But perhaps when he switched his attentions to Utena as the new incarnate of Tokiko, his interest in manipulating her waned. Whatever the explanation, her resemblance Tokiko certainly wasn't an accident.

I love that secretary.  Just flippantly telling her ex-employer that he's a cold-hearted child-molester.   Ah, so many bosses I would love to tell off.

Mikage is interesting that way, isn't he?  If you told Saionji off like that, he'd belt you.  Touga wouldn't even scowl, but he'd say something back to communicate his indifference.  Akio would just smile and say something that hurt much worse.  Mikage, though... he's the interesting one.  He doesn't just throw around physical or verbal violence.  You can tell him exactly what a shit he is and he'll just ignore you.  Mikage's violence is surgical and professional, and he only uses it when there's something specific he wants to accomplish.  He's a scary guy.  Even if she knew that he wouldn't react, his secretary had some balls to stand up to him.

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#14 | Back to Top04-17-2011 04:42:27 AM

Randamonian
Rose Bride
From: Australia
Registered: 11-07-2010
Posts: 102

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

I always saw the answers he gave as a sign of his indifference;  perhaps his unwillingness to change; or he's already aware of everything she said and can't help it.

I mean, "I am what I am" and "You are what you are" felt like brush off lines to me.

But I do agree that he just ignores what he doesn't like hearing.

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#15 | Back to Top04-17-2011 08:00:51 PM

teyhy
High Tripper
From: Ecuador
Registered: 04-27-2010
Posts: 245
Website

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

Something else I've notice is that (in the movie) we never get to hear Utena call Himemiya by her name, Anthy. But Anthy says Utena's name the whole movie.

Last edited by teyhy (04-17-2011 08:01:34 PM)


Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - H. Berlioz.
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad133/teyhy/for%20fo/Untitled-1copy.jpg?t=1280266589

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#16 | Back to Top04-18-2011 07:03:44 AM

CoffinBreaker
Rose Bride
From: Here and Now
Registered: 10-28-2010
Posts: 117

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

teyhy wrote:

Something else I've notice is that (in the movie) we never get to hear Utena call Himemiya by her name, Anthy. But Anthy says Utena's name the whole movie.

At the end of the series, Anthy drops the honorific, and (in my fanon anyway) the film takes place somewhere after the series, hence Anthy's familiarity with Utena throughout the film and her willingness not to use any kind of honorific with her (which is either very rude or implies closeness).

Utena just calls her Himemiya as a nickname, there's really not much there. Though why she uses her last name I have never quite figured out. (That's generally how boys refer to each other, with a few exceptions.)


You don't need to understand Revolutionary Girl Utena to understand it.

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#17 | Back to Top04-18-2011 10:59:09 AM

Hiraku
Easter Elf #40
From: Singapore
Registered: 02-21-2007
Posts: 6340
Website

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

teyhy wrote:

Something else I've notice is that (in the movie) we never get to hear Utena call Himemiya by her name, Anthy. But Anthy says Utena's name the whole movie.

You know interestingly, in the episode where Utena faces off against Wakaba, that was the ONE time Utena blurted, "Anthy, I can't do it." I think it really reflects her inner state of panic when seeing her best friend holding a sword against her.

Also, I believe that Utena was able to enter the Ohtori academy, if we follow the manga's first volume as canon, that she had relative to pay her way. In the manga, though, it was stated that she received letters that led her to Ohtori. In the anime, she stated that she never received any letter, I believe.

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#18 | Back to Top04-19-2011 09:35:19 AM

CoffinBreaker
Rose Bride
From: Here and Now
Registered: 10-28-2010
Posts: 117

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

^ I used to think that, but it turns out it was an editing mistake. In the remastered version she says Himemiya.


You don't need to understand Revolutionary Girl Utena to understand it.

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#19 | Back to Top04-19-2011 10:32:16 PM

HonorableShadow
Cow Bellhop
From: Ohio
Registered: 11-03-2006
Posts: 471
Website

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

I wish they hadn't changed that.  It might have been an editing mistake, but I think they should have just gone with it and let people speculate.  It's more interesting that way.  That part where she calls Anthy by her first name instead of Himemiya was always one of my favorite little moments.  Ah well, I still have my regular DVDs..I can always pop them in instead of the remastered ones for that ep if I'm that desperate. emot-biggrin


Rose tint my world...
Keep me safe from my trouble and pain.

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#20 | Back to Top04-20-2011 02:58:59 PM

teyhy
High Tripper
From: Ecuador
Registered: 04-27-2010
Posts: 245
Website

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

Is it just me or Movie-Utena seems older than Series-Utena?


Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - H. Berlioz.
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad133/teyhy/for%20fo/Untitled-1copy.jpg?t=1280266589

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#21 | Back to Top04-27-2011 07:09:50 PM

CoffinBreaker
Rose Bride
From: Here and Now
Registered: 10-28-2010
Posts: 117

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

(In my fanon, at least) the film takes place after the series so she'd probably be a few years older both literally and psychologically.


You don't need to understand Revolutionary Girl Utena to understand it.

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#22 | Back to Top05-16-2011 06:09:38 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8731
Website

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxYHQrvMCEs&NR=1

The original trailers for the movie include a scene that's not in the movie. Can you find it? emot-smile


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
Chiefest of Calamities

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#23 | Back to Top05-16-2011 06:40:16 PM

thothptah
Ohtori Paramouri
Registered: 01-21-2010
Posts: 97

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

At 0:31 with Akio looking at a naked Utena school-eng101 I wonder how that scene was going to play out emot-aaa

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#24 | Back to Top05-16-2011 06:47:18 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8731
Website

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

I'm guessing it was going to be a trippy ghostofthepaststandingthere sequence and they cut it so there'd be a more defined border between the flashbacks and present time. I doubt Akio was meant to be alive when Utena was there at any point.


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
Chiefest of Calamities

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#25 | Back to Top05-16-2011 06:56:00 PM

thothptah
Ohtori Paramouri
Registered: 01-21-2010
Posts: 97

Re: The mini-analysis thread - for those small revelations

Perhaps it was going to serve as an alternate transition; rather than zooming in on the paintings in the background, we would have seen the scene slowly take shape starting with Akio staring at a naked Utena, with her being replaced in a cut away with Anthy, or some such thing like that. Perhaps it was dropped because it created too close of a connection between Akio's and Anthy's behavior?

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