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HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#676 | Back to Top12-23-2011 08:21:17 AM

HonorableShadow
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From: Ohio
Registered: 11-03-2006
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Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

I started crying halfway through the series (when Himari was walking up to Kan) half because it was sad, and half because I was going to miss the series so much!  It's been my obsession for the past 6 months and while it has a few pacing flaws, it's definitely become one of my all time favorites.  I had been so worried about a bad ending (especially for Kanba, who has been my unwavering favorite character since day one) but the ending was actually very hopeful, even though it was bittersweet. [Kanba and Himari got some of the most beautiful scenes in the episode, and so as a Kan/Himari shipper, I was satisfied. The family scenes were great too, it was touching to see how their little family shared that apple.  Masako's dream and Himari's note made me so so sad though. emot-frown I wish in the end everyone could have stayed together, but I guess it had to be this way to get the impact of the sacrifices the brother made. Also in the end, it was nice to see Kanba proved Sanetoshi wrong - Sanetoshi said nothing would be left of Kanba in the world, not even a fleck of dust, but Himari woke up with a shard on her forehead. ] Overall I loved it.

Last edited by HonorableShadow (12-23-2011 08:26:15 AM)


Rose tint my world...
Keep me safe from my trouble and pain.

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#677 | Back to Top12-23-2011 11:30:16 AM

yuzukelly
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Registered: 09-22-2010
Posts: 130

Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

I was satisfied with the ending (I think XD lol) I cried though :s but Momoka was inside the hats, right? She seemed so nice in the flashbacks and so kind, but she was kind of a bitch as princess of the crystal. She kind of got it right with "you will never amount to anything" (because, in that life they didn't really grow up, but their reincarnations hopefully will. right?) and Momoka was so mean to Ringo O_O  I guess they're petty things to worry about XD

I will miss getting up on fridays to watch it etc-jurishlick

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#678 | Back to Top12-23-2011 12:13:51 PM

Hiraku
Easter Elf #40
From: Singapore
Registered: 02-21-2007
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Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

Mmmm... this may be just me and my personal obsession with Faust, but the [ chat between Momoka and Sanetoshi are kind of like the conversation that was shared between God and Mephistopheles. Especially the part where Sanetoshi chose to stay behind, it's kind of like the "devil" choosing to remain in the abyss, while everyone else is moving on.]

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#679 | Back to Top12-23-2011 12:20:45 PM

The Second Penguin
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Registered: 12-16-2011
Posts: 14

Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

Concerning the hats, I've considered a few theories: 1) Tough love. Momoka knew Ringo's relationship with Tabuki was toxic and felt insults were the best way to snap her out of it. 1b) The Wise Mentor cop-out: you have to go through all of these challenges because the journey will prepare you for the endgame. 2) Sanetoshi's spell split her into two hats, right? What if one hat was her angry side? 3) Momoka had just recently broke Sanetoshi's seal. That can do a number on someone's psyche -- maybe her hat form wasn't just tainted by his fabulousness, but also his anger. 4) She's not as perfect as everyone remembers her.

Does the text favor one of these explanations over the other? I don't think so.

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#680 | Back to Top12-23-2011 12:23:33 PM

Yams
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From: Crystal Millenium
Registered: 02-13-2007
Posts: 960

Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

I believe the series would have been infinitesimally better if Sanetoshi had taken a cue from Akio and slept with the entire cast.


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i232/YamPuff/im%20holllowz_zpsx9ddh2gp.png~original

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#681 | Back to Top12-23-2011 12:59:11 PM

Paradox
Winning Love By Daylight
From: Indianapolis, IN
Registered: 07-13-2007
Posts: 343

Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

Hiraku wrote:

Mmmm... this may be just me and my personal obsession with Faust, but the [ chat between Momoka and Sanetoshi are kind of like the conversation that was shared between God and Mephistopheles. Especially the part where Sanetoshi chose to stay behind, it's kind of like the "devil" choosing to remain in the abyss, while everyone else is moving on.]

Actually, [this reminded Mylene and I of the end of Utena where Akio is sitting in the office, still planning his next escapade as Anthy drops off her glasses and says her farewell.  The world is moving on without him.  There is nothing he CAN do but stay there.  Sanetoshi is the same way.  He has to stay and wait for another chance to unleash destruction on the world he despises.  What else can he do?  He's sure that the world will give him another chance, but at this point, he's powerless.  If anything let me down in the series, it's how much of an Akio-clone Sanetoshi turned out to be, from beginning to end.]

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#682 | Back to Top12-23-2011 01:38:35 PM

Notebook Darling
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From: The Netherlands
Registered: 12-21-2008
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Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

Posting again because I've got a question.

Why the hell did they need the penguin drum in the first place now?
And why did the Princess of the Crystal want it now?

Since the pengdrum is that. GAH IM SO CONFUSED.

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#683 | Back to Top12-23-2011 02:49:14 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

I didn't get it.  emot-confused

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#684 | Back to Top12-23-2011 02:57:36 PM

Notebook Darling
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From: The Netherlands
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Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

satyreyes wrote:

I didn't get it.  emot-confused

what didn't you get? o:

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#685 | Back to Top12-23-2011 03:28:26 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
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Posts: 10328
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Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

Most of it?  emot-redface

Why were they in the boxes?  Did that actually happen?  If so, when and why?  If not, how come a symbol from an event that never happened gets to be [the Penguindrum]?

How did [Kanba sacrifice himself to save Himari?  Hadn't the series already specifically established that he doesn't have the power to do that?  How did Shouma sacrifice himself to save Ringo?  Didn't we hear that it's the one who casts the spell who suffers the consequences]?

Why are Himari and Mario [cured at the end]?  (Why didn't anyone have to [make a sacrifice to save Mario, and what did he have to do with anything]?)

Why can't anyone [remember Kanba and Shouma?  In the new destiny, did they never exist?  But if that's true, why is Himari living in the Takakura house instead of the Child Broiler, and how did Ringo meet her?  Was the forgetfulness a byproduct of the destiny transfer?  But if that's true, why did everyone clearly remember Momoka earlier in the show]?

If Sanetoshi emblemized the curse on the families of the conspirators, [why is he still around now that the curse is lifted]?  And [what would have happened if Ringo hadn't come in with the spell on her lips -- what was Sanetoshi's plan]?

And most fundamentally, [so what]?  What is the [moral of the story]?  What does it mean that [two boys were willing to sacrifice themselves for two girls -- without the girls' consent, it should be noted, and in Himari's case actually against her will?  Alternatively, what does it mean that Himari and Ringo got to live, while Kanba and Shouma didn't]?  [The central problems of the story's plot were mostly resolved, but what about its thematic questions?: What does it mean to change fate?  Is it something that's possible?  Desirable?  How much should you sacrifice for family?  For friends?  Is there a difference between family and friends?  Do we inherit our parents' sins]?  I don't feel like any of these questions got wrapped up in a satisfying way.  To be fair, I felt the same way after watching the ending of Utena for the first time, and in Utena's case I've come to feel like the ending wrapped almost everything up with a flourish after all.  Maybe MPD will be the same.  But for now I don't get it.  emot-confused

Last edited by satyreyes (12-23-2011 03:34:03 PM)

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#686 | Back to Top12-23-2011 03:38:58 PM

HonorableShadow
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From: Ohio
Registered: 11-03-2006
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Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

Well I can't answer the rest of your questions, but I can answer a few of them.

How did [[Kanba sacrifice himself to save Himari?  Hadn't the series already specifically established that he doesn't have the power to do that? ]

That's not actually the case. [ Sanetoshi was the one who told him he doesn't have the power, and....well...Sanetoshi wanted to manipulate him into blowing up a subway. Momoka(or at least, Hat!Momoka) told him he could still save her and in the novel, told him "don't be misled." (This next part is mostly my own theory, so I'm not trying to claim it as fact.)  The problem was that he couldn't save her on his own, he only had half the power, because he gave Shouma half of his apple, which turned out to be the Penguindrum that could save Himari by exchanging her fate for someone else's. In this episode, Shouma ended up returning Kanba's half to him, so Kanba had a whole apple. In turn, Kanba gave the whole apple to Himari and so he was able to save her with his Penguindrum, the apple. He exchanges his fate for her's, and shattered like she would have in child broiler.]

Edit:

Why can't anyone [remember Kanba and Shouma?  In the new destiny, did they never exist?  But if that's true, why is Himari living in the Takakura house instead of the Child Broiler, and how did Ringo meet her?  Was the forgetfulness a byproduct of the destiny transfer?  But if that's true, why did everyone clearly remember Momoka earlier in the show]?

[Himari wasn't living with the Takakura's, even though it was their house. The parents in the picture were different, in fact, the dad looked a little bit like the Takakura uncle. But maybe not, it might have been her biological parents, or she may have been adopted? She wasn't in the child broiler because she was chosen, Kanba had given her a full apple. Himari met Ringo in the hospital, she mentions to her uncle on the phone that she had made friends with the girl she was taken to the hospital with.]

Last edited by HonorableShadow (12-23-2011 03:54:07 PM)


Rose tint my world...
Keep me safe from my trouble and pain.

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#687 | Back to Top12-23-2011 03:50:45 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

HonorableShadow wrote:

How did [[Kanba sacrifice himself to save Himari?  Hadn't the series already specifically established that he doesn't have the power to do that? ]

That's not actually the case. [ Sanetoshi was the one who told him he doesn't have the power, and....well...Sanetoshi wanted to manipulate him into blowing up a subway. Momoka(or at least, Hat!Momoka) told him he could still save her and in the novel, told him "don't be misled." (This next part is mostly my own theory, so I'm not trying to claim it as fact.)  The problem was that he couldn't save her on his own, he only had half the power, because Shouma had half of his apple, which turned out to be the Penguindrum that could save Himari by exchanging her fate for someone else's. In this episode, Shouma ended up returning Kanba's half to him, so Kanba had a whole apple. In turn, Kanba gave the whole apple to Himari and so he was able to save her with his Penguindrum, the apple. He exchanges his fate for her's, and shattered like she would have in child broiler.]

That is helpful, and I think you're right!  This replaces those two questions with more useful ones: [So the Penguindrum is not symbolic after all, but rather the literal apple from that event?  How did a magic apple get in Kanba's box?  How is the apple that somehow saved the brothers' lives connected to Himari's fate?  What is the relationship between this apple and the one Shouma already gave Himari in the Child Broiler?  If you can subdivide an apple into two bits and save two lives, as Kanba did for Shouma, how come you can't subdivide an apple into three bits and save three lives?  How come Shouma still has the power to save Ringo when he's already given up his apple half]?

Last edited by satyreyes (12-23-2011 03:52:04 PM)

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#688 | Back to Top12-23-2011 03:58:23 PM

HonorableShadow
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From: Ohio
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Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

I edited my post up there to answer another of your questions, but you were too quick for me. XD I'm glad you thought it was helpful though!  I'm still  trying to piece everything together myself, it's giving me a headache.

How did a magic apple get in Kanba's box?

I think Kanba was just lucky. [ In the world, there are chosen and unchosen. We saw a lot of unchosen kids, but there are a lot of chosen people, and Kanba just so happened to be one of them. I'm not so sure the apple is literal, it's hard to tell with Ikuhara. XD But in any case, Kanba came from a family with a sister and brother who loved him, and the Natsume's were wealthy. Plus the Takakuras seemed to like him a lot too. So, I guess that's why he was considered a chosen one? Himari was abandoned and Shouma seemed neglected by his parents, or well, he doesn't have a good relationship with them. Alternatively, the "apple is a reward for those who have chosen love over everything" and Kanba chose to leave Masako and Mario to save them from Kiga, so maybe that was his reward at the time?]

Last edited by HonorableShadow (12-23-2011 04:00:09 PM)


Rose tint my world...
Keep me safe from my trouble and pain.

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#689 | Back to Top12-23-2011 04:03:26 PM

Paradox
Winning Love By Daylight
From: Indianapolis, IN
Registered: 07-13-2007
Posts: 343

Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

On the boxes:  [I'm not sure whether they're symbolic or literal, but I'm not sure it really matters.  What does matter is the cult symbol on the side of them.  The cult was inflicting this, and I'm inclined to think deliberately.  They're obsessed with the haves and the have-nots, those chosen and those cast aside.  Kenzan was realizing that his son, Shoma, was not going to be a good leader for the cult he was now leading.  The boy was too kind-hearted, unwilling to make the hard choices.  So they put the boys to the test.  The son of the wealthy family had an apple, the son of the poor family did not.  Both were at the edge of death.  If Shoma could find a way to take the apple from the rich boy, he'd kill the rich boy, but survive and be worthy to lead them.  If not, the Natsume boy would become the heir.  I can't imagine the cult members expected what actually happened.  They see the world as a split society, rich and poor, good and evil, us and them, all with a gulf too big to crossed by anything but drastic action.  It was going to be a fight for survival and only one would emerge.  The idea that Kanba would willingly share the apple would never occur to them.  He did, though, therefore both lived.  It was Kanba's choice, though, so he became the "elder" brother, the one with the force of will to be the heir to Kenzan's work.]

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#690 | Back to Top12-23-2011 04:05:49 PM

Notebook Darling
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From: The Netherlands
Registered: 12-21-2008
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Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

satyreyes wrote:

Most of it?  emot-redface

Why were they in the boxes?  Did that actually happen?  If so, when and why?  If not, how come a symbol from an event that never happened gets to be [the Penguindrum]?

I think that they were there, because they were also forgotten. Somehow those boxes are different from the Child Broiler. They're like Sanetoshi says in ep 22 or 23 the "box we live in" or something like that. I do think they're connected to the Child Broiler somehow - of course I have no evidence.
I do think that there could've been more hints to the penguin drum.

satyreyes wrote:

How did [Kanba sacrifice himself to save Himari?  Hadn't the series already specifically established that he doesn't have the power to do that?  How did Shouma sacrifice himself to save Ringo?  Didn't we hear that it's the one who casts the spell who suffers the consequences]?

since he had the penguindrum, he used that to save her. the penguindrum is - I think - the fruit of destiny. He got it inside that box right? It meant that he was chosen to live, but he gave the whole fruit to himari - which together with the Fate Transer of Ringo saved the girls.

satyreyes wrote:

Why are Himari and Mario [cured at the end]?  (Why didn't anyone have to [make a sacrifice to save Mario, and what did he have to do with anything]?)

I have no frickin' clue what Mario has to do with anything.  : l
A "reserve"? A reason to get that chick after Kanba - I don't know. But Himari and Mario are cured thanks to the fate transfer - but it doesn't make a lot of sense, because Himari got the fruit... so... ugh >_<

satyreyes wrote:

Why can't anyone [remember Kanba and Shouma?  In the new destiny, did they never exist?  But if that's true, why is Himari living in the Takakura house instead of the Child Broiler, and how did Ringo meet her?  Was the forgetfulness a byproduct of the destiny transfer?  But if that's true, why did everyone clearly remember Momoka earlier in the show]?

Perhaps Himari was fated to meet the takakura's or perhaps that is also thanks to the fate transfer. Ringo met her on the train - they both passed out and met in the hospital.
And Momoka was the one who did the transfer, but Kanba and Shouma didn't do this. It was Ringo who did. Perhaps she remembers everything, but decides not to tell.
Perhaps it's different, because Shouma and Kanba sacrificed themselves and died - unlike Yuri's father.


satyreyes wrote:

If Sanetoshi emblemized the curse on the families of the conspirators, [why is he still around now that the curse is lifted]?  And [what would have happened if Ringo hadn't come in with the spell on her lips -- what was Sanetoshi's plan]?

The curse was lifted? I thought it was still there. His curse and Momoka's spell kind of "crashed" into each other and I think one can't do without the other. At the end Momoka leaves with both hats - so Sanetoshi is still there too. I think they both exist due their own magic or something.
I'm not sure I understand the last sentence. Do you mean "what would happen if Momoka didn't interfere with the attack?" I think that the world would've been destroyed by Sanetoshi.


satyreyes wrote:

And most fundamentally, [so what]?  What is the [moral of the story]?  What does it mean that [two boys were willing to sacrifice themselves for two girls -- without the girls' consent, it should be noted, and in Himari's case actually against her will?  Alternatively, what does it mean that Himari and Ringo got to live, while Kanba and Shouma didn't]?  [The central problems of the story's plot were mostly resolved, but what about its thematic questions?: What does it mean to change fate?  Is it something that's possible?  Desirable?  How much should you sacrifice for family?  For friends?  Is there a difference between family and friends?  Do we inherit our parents' sins]?  I don't feel like any of these questions got wrapped up in a satisfying way.  To be fair, I felt the same way after watching the ending of Utena for the first time, and in Utena's case I've come to feel like the ending wrapped almost everything up with a flourish after all.  Maybe MPD will be the same.  But for now I don't get it.  emot-confused

Hmm~ I think the story is about the relationship between parents and children. The effects of what adults do. And there's "the power of love" and what we do because of it. They all want to save each other, because no one is supposed to be there (except for Kanba) - like children born "on accident".
I also think of adoption with this anime.
Who decides which child gets to live in a home and which child is to be left behind. Especially children from 'third world' countries.

Fate is another important theme in MPD. Western people believe you can alter your own fate, but Asian people believe your fate is already been set. The whole anime is about children battling against their own fate, that has been decided by the adults Sanetoshi wants to destroy.


OMG SANETOSHI HAS A PETER PAN SYNDROME?!emot-rofl

:3 hopefully I was a bit helpful. school-eng101

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#691 | Back to Top12-23-2011 04:18:12 PM

Ragnarok
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Registered: 10-20-2006
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Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

The boxes are the ones Sanetoshi believes all (or most?) people are trapped in. That flashback is probably about as literal as you want it to be in the same way the child broiler is. In reality these things don't exist, but they represent real things; in the show the real and the symbol overlaps too much to seperate them definitively.

The apple, and what Tabuki was talking about, and the title of the final episode, as well as the mirrored conversation from the first episode... I think is the message of the series. Which is also so similar to Utena's. Which I don't know myself how to phrase at all at the moment.


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#692 | Back to Top12-23-2011 04:22:02 PM

Notebook Darling
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Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

Boy1: The apple is also a reward for those who have chosen love over everything else!
Boy2: But everything's over when you're dead.

but Kanba didn't do anything and still found an apple in his box - I think it's what Paradox said. Rich vs poor, which is also tied to fate

Last edited by Notebook Darling (12-23-2011 04:22:21 PM)

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#693 | Back to Top12-23-2011 04:24:32 PM

Macky
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From: Santa Destroy
Registered: 09-30-2011
Posts: 12

Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

I also don't know how to feel about this, I'm happy that Ringo and Himari got to live, specially Himari who is not living on "borrowed time", but it's so sad that it had to be this way. All the love that Ringo had for Shouma? Gone with him. The love that Himari had for her brothers? Also gone with them. They DID amount to something in the end, but it was sad emot-frown

I wonder if Shouma HAD to dissapear? He was the one to hold Ringo, and I couldn't help but sob like a madwoman when he said: "This was our fate", they love eachother but they can't be together emot-frown

Gosh Ikuhara, I've got all the tears!!!

(still, forgetting about all the sadness, the bottom line here is that all of them were acts of love...so it's bittersweet at its most)

Last edited by Macky (12-23-2011 04:25:02 PM)


Without a care in the world you use the special gifts you were born with and without a second thought trample the rest of us!

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#694 | Back to Top12-23-2011 04:34:41 PM

Davine Lu Linvega
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Registered: 06-08-2011
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Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

Answers for questions and questions for answers...

satyreyes wrote:

What does it mean that [two boys were willing to sacrifice themselves for two girls -- without the girls' consent, it should be noted, and in Himari's case actually against her will?  Alternatively, what does it mean that Himari and Ringo got to live, while Kanba and Shouma didn't]

This was my biggest annoyance with the story. [Himari basically had no agency. We know that she didn't want her brothers to suffer for her sake, and those wishes were regularly dismissed. After Utena, I wouldn't have expected Ikuhara to create a 'damsel in distress' character, but that's what Himari was in the end, and while the series repeatedly shows that she didn't want to be saved, no one cared and the brothers' actions were portrayed positively in the end.

It was kind of interesting how Sanetoshi ended up being responsible for his own defeat. He sent Himari's scarves to Double-H, most likely in order to strengthen her attachment to the world and add to her torment so she would stay alive and Kanba would be more motivated to save her. But that's what led to Ringo getting their CD and learning the "fruit of fate" spell. Shades of Akio grooming Utena for the final duel?
]

satyreyes wrote:

Why were they in the boxes?  Did that actually happen?  If so, when and why?  If not, how come a symbol from an event that never happened gets to be [the Penguindrum]?

I think the boxes are metaphorical, like the Child Broiler. They represent being 'trapped inside one's self' with no connection to others. [I think Kanba got the apple because he was more self-motivated and had a stronger will to live than Shouma. Look at all the scenes where Kanba rises to meet some challenge and Shouma falters, like when he runs to the hospital with his dad to see Himari.]

[Another thing that really bugged me was the black rabbits - they were basically 'accessories' for Sanetoshi but served no other purpose. I expected more from them after they were built up to be part of the Takakuras' punishment during the Goddess myth scene - like maybe they would possess people and compel them to attack the characters or something. But they just followed Sanetoshi around spouting the same lines every time they appeared, and they were completely forgotten by the ending. What did they even symbolize except to create a parallel between Sanetoshi and Momoka, both split into two halves? And Momoka's other half, the hat that went to Mario, also had very little impact on the story.]

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#695 | Back to Top12-23-2011 04:37:23 PM

Hiraku
Easter Elf #40
From: Singapore
Registered: 02-21-2007
Posts: 6340
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Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

Regarding the Takakura house, [Kanba probably did the fate transfer such that Himari will be taken in by their uncle at Ikebe in her new life. Originally, Shouma was asking Himari to move in with their uncle, maybe that's part of what the brothers changed for Himari. You can also notice that the house is no longer painted, and the room was very plain and no longer remodeled to resemble Mika's Dollhouse.]

Hmmm... I think the message was what Tabuki had said, [The reason why they were left alive was so that they can pass on "love" to future generations. They themselves had suffered at one point or another because the world "abandoned" them. That suffering won't end because the world will continue to work the same way as it did.

But is the world really "frozen" as Kenzan said? He told Shouma that there's nothing they can do for the children at the Child Broiler, yet Shouma and Momoka both managed to rush there to save someone whom they cared about.

Maybe it's simply because we are the ones who were "frozen", that we see the world as "frozen". People can save and be saved. People can love and be loved. When Yuri gave Ringo back the diary, and when Shouma and Kanba gave up their lives to save Ringo and Himari, they were passing on their love to people whom they cared about. Even if their feelings won't be reciprocated, Ringo and Himari will pass that feeling down to the next people who had also never received love.

Both boys chose to disappear without the girls' consent, indeed. But, as a matter of fact, all four of them were ready to give up their own lives for someone else. I have a feeling that if the circumstance was shifted just a wee bit, it could have ended with Shouma and Kanba who were the ones left alive. (Maaaaybe)

As far as the transfer is concerned, maybe the Penguindrums worked like the diary, they're all "tools" to transfer fate. The Princess of the Crystal told Shouma that if he wanted to change the cruel fate awaiting them, he must obtain the Penguindrum. At the time, Shouma thought it was the diary.

But, maybe it's because both he and Kanba realized what Penguindrum was, they were able to use that power to transfer fate for Ringo and Himari. Why were they seemingly forgotten after they disappear? Maybe the price they paid must equal the weight of the lives/curses they must burden.

Momoka got a cut on her finger for saving a rabbit; then got sever burns for saving Yuri; then vanished without a trace in a failed attempt to save a bunch of people at the subway. Proporationately, by transferring fate to save the two girls, and everyone on the train who would've been bombed, not only were they erased physically, but they were forgotten as well.
]

These are just my two-cents on the matter, but it's all very debatable, especially when I'm currently not using common sense to explain any of this :|

In other note, [the ending where Kanba and Shouma were talking about the apple of reward when passing by the house, it was very reminiscent of the last scene from the anime AIR, where the two kids walked toward their promised place while acknowledging that their previous generation is doomed to a tragic end.]

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#696 | Back to Top12-23-2011 04:41:02 PM

ArsenicForBreakfast
Pathtracer
From: The Destination of Your Fate
Registered: 10-14-2007
Posts: 340
Website

Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

So many apple flavored tears.  I couldn't really process the ending the first time through; I've had to watch it three times just to form an opinion.

PROS: The scenes between Himari, Kanba, Shouma and Ringo all hit a perfect emotional pitch for me.  Kanba dissolving into the glass shards and the cut left on Himari's forehead...lovely.  Shouma sharing Ringo's punishment so she can survive the fate transfer...awesome.  (his "I love you" was just icing on the cake).  The waterworks came on full blast during the flashback scene where Kanba shares the Apple with Shouma; this is hands down my favorite scene in the whole anime, the VAs give it 110%, and it all culminates in the phrase used to transfer fate.  The reset button ending, while frustrating for erasing all that character development, makes sense given the way the plot was going, and I love the tie in between the kids from ep. 1 and Kanba and Shouma at the end.  Masako's ending was really sweet too etc-love The animation was lovely as well, especially the windblown canopy bed curtains and the backgrounds.


CONS:Sanetoshi, Sanetoshi, Sanetoshi.  He fell flat for me, and that's after really liking him as a villain up until a few episodes ago.  We never get enough backstory or motivation for him to be compelling as a character, he feels more like a concept.  That scene with Momoka leaving him on the tracks mirrors the scene in Utena when Anthy leaves Akio in the library, but with absolutely none of the impact; for all his Akio-esque posturing, the Doc was a dud for me.  Like Utena, it's very open ended, which isn't as issue on it's own, but I can't help feeling some of it is plot threads left hanging because they didn't have time to wrap them up in a satisfactory manner.  I also thought Tabuki and Yuri's appearance was kind of...unnecessary, since they just rehash what Tabuki said in the last episode, and Yuri is apparently no longer into yuri?

All told, it was a fabulous max series and it's been a blast seeing everyone's reactions and theories every week--hugs all around

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b333/TheAntiSora/penguindrumcast.jpg


I'm a fan of pessimism: if you maintain the lowest expectations possible, they'll always be met or exceeded.

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#697 | Back to Top12-23-2011 04:44:41 PM

Notebook Darling
Black Rosarian
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 12-21-2008
Posts: 372
Website

Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

http://8ths.in/2011/12/23/mawaru-pengui … ervations/  <- so that's why the penguin was smashing eggs on his head

hopefully my posts aren't annoying anyone D:

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#698 | Back to Top12-23-2011 05:22:58 PM

Davine Lu Linvega
Spam Arsonist
Registered: 06-08-2011
Posts: 88

Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

I think what Momoka and Sanetoshi represented was the self-perpetuating power of love and malice, respectively.

[Everything that happens in the show is an aftereffect of their confrontation. Sanetoshi's terrorist attack led to Himari's punishment, which led Kanba into a downward moral spiral that started with him trying to steal Ringo's diary and ended with him killing dozens of police and plotting to blow up a train. The terrorist attack also motivated Tabuki and Yuri's depraved actions.

At the same time, Momoka's love for others had a more subtle but ultimately stronger ripple effect. Ringo befriended the Takakuras, Tabuki and Yuri realized the error of their ways, and Ringo ended up finding her own reasons to sacrifice for others.

In the end, it appears that Himari and Ringo will continue "paying forward" Momoka's good will, but no one remembers Sanetoshi's evil deeds anymore and he has lost his ability to affect the world of the living. As Momoka tells him, "no more trains will come for you." Momoka is capable of walking away from the tracks, but Sanetoshi will seemingly be stuck in place forever.

It's kind of disappointing how much of an Akio clone he turned out to be, though.
]

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#699 | Back to Top12-23-2011 07:14:33 PM

Hiraku
Easter Elf #40
From: Singapore
Registered: 02-21-2007
Posts: 6340
Website

Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

@Davine, Oh my god, yes! You found the word I was looking for: "[Paying forward]" Thank you!

I think that's one of the reasons the series ended the way it did. As for [Why it's Ringo and Himari rather than Shouma and Kanba who will "pay it forward"... that's something to think about... For now, I'm only leaving it to the idea that maybe one's feeling was at the time more intense than the other...?]

One thing to remember is, in spite of all the sparkles and stars, Ikuhara isn't a big fan of "miracles"... even though he [did do a sort of a deus ex machine for Penguindrum, though not without a price.]

Last edited by Hiraku (12-23-2011 07:19:57 PM)

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#700 | Back to Top12-23-2011 07:25:23 PM

OnlyInThisLight
KING OF ALL DUCKS
Registered: 01-15-2008
Posts: 4411

Re: Mawaru Penguindrum: Or, YOU WILL BE SPOILED

Can we has Mawaru Penguindrum forum or a new thread?  Spoiler tags are getting supah numerous.

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