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HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top11-30-2010 09:19:47 PM

Emiemipoemi
Troublesome Insect
Registered: 12-10-2006
Posts: 649

HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

SPOILERS FOR SECOND EVA MOVIE WATCH OUT





OKAY SO I was watching the second Rebuild of Eva movie. There is a scene where Shinji goes after Rei when she's been consumed by an Angel aaaaaaaand I SWEAR TO GOD IT IS THE SCENE WHERE UTENA IS REACHING FOR ANTHY'S HAND. WHO HAS SEEN THIS?

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#2 | Back to Top12-01-2010 12:27:36 AM

Randamonian
Rose Bride
From: Australia
Registered: 11-07-2010
Posts: 102

Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

oh, yeah there was a bit of similarity. In fact, yeah, there was quite a bit. I think my mind went there too - but I shrugged it off.

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#3 | Back to Top12-01-2010 01:12:33 AM

Yasha
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From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6018
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Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

I think there's a scene in one of the EVA remakes that like... copying one of Touga and Utena's scenes pretty closely-- the one where he puts the can of pop on her cheek.

Don't mind my rambling, I'm exhausted.


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#4 | Back to Top12-01-2010 02:08:51 AM

Giovanna
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From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
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Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

THERE IS. I noticed that before too, but the scene I caught right away with Shinji and Kaji with the COLD SODA CAN TO THE CHEEK, the LEANING IN...and then 'Just kidding.'

I mean, it's just funny for that many things to remind you so clearly of SKU. Or it's not. The story is that Ikuhara was good friends with Anno and they spoke frequently about their respective projects as they were being done.


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
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#5 | Back to Top12-01-2010 06:13:03 PM

moonrabbit
New Student
Registered: 07-31-2010
Posts: 4

Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

Yeah, in regards to the final scene of 2.0, here's a scene-for-scene comparison someone made: http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8541/skurebuild.jpg

I'm not sure if it's intended as a direct homage, but they are quite similar, so it's entirely possible.  I think I read somewhere that Anno actually wanted Ikuhara on the Eva staff...

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#6 | Back to Top12-01-2010 07:55:26 PM

Emiemipoemi
Troublesome Insect
Registered: 12-10-2006
Posts: 649

Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

moonrabbit wrote:

AWESOMESAUCE

uhhhhh that's amazing that you found that. i mean just how intense the scene is alone was overwhelming, but then you add the whole "this is also the heartbreaking ending of Utena" on top of and I was just like . . . whoa.

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#7 | Back to Top12-01-2010 08:35:11 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

Huh!  Well, on one hand, some aspects of that sequence are pretty iconic; Michelangelo did something similar on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel before Kunihiko Ikuhara was a gleam in his great-great-great-grandfather's eye.  On the other hand, that does look like a frame-for-frame match, doesn't it?  And of course, Shinya Hasegawa worked on animation for both Eva and Utena; maybe he saw a thematic link?  Pretty cool!

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#8 | Back to Top12-01-2010 11:09:03 PM

Duelist Megu
Ruthless Deflorist
From: Calgary, AB
Registered: 12-07-2007
Posts: 303
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Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg183/carve037/wat_fifthelement.jpg

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#9 | Back to Top12-02-2010 12:34:14 AM

Scoluron
Rose Bride
From: Portland, OR
Registered: 11-03-2009
Posts: 114

Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

Holy carp monkey ON ANOTHER CARP MONKEY.

Such a good catch. emot-biggrin

moonrabbit wrote:

I'm not sure if it's intended as a direct homage, but they are quite similar, so it's entirely possible.  I think I read somewhere that Anno actually wanted Ikuhara on the Eva staff...

No kidding...but I have the unfortunate feeling that Ikuhara-sama wouldn't be too impressed by the tribute.

Last edited by Scoluron (12-02-2010 12:37:42 AM)


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#10 | Back to Top12-02-2010 02:03:15 AM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8730
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Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

I dunno, Ikuhara seems to me egotistical enough to enjoy any kind of tribute. And this isn't the first time SKU has been referenced in anime since. I can't remember the name but there was some genki shojo anime that was basically exactly what SKU mocked that ripped huge chunks from the opening sequence.

Still, I recognized the whole GRASPING HANDS bit but man the two shots after where it copies the destruction of the planetarium platform really drive it home. emot-dance


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
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#11 | Back to Top12-02-2010 02:22:23 AM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

Giovanna wrote:

I dunno, Ikuhara seems to me egotistical enough to enjoy any kind of tribute. And this isn't the first time SKU has been referenced in anime since. I can't remember the name but there was some genki shojo anime that was basically exactly what SKU mocked that ripped huge chunks from the opening sequence.

It seems worth noting that (per Wikipedia) End of Evangelion was released on July 19, 1997, while the Utena anime ran from April 2 to December 24, 1997.  Since the shot in question is from the last episode of Utena, it seems like technically, chronologically, Ikuni would be ripping off Anno, not vice versa!

Last edited by satyreyes (12-02-2010 02:23:13 AM)

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#12 | Back to Top12-02-2010 02:58:45 PM

Emiemipoemi
Troublesome Insect
Registered: 12-10-2006
Posts: 649

Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

Well now here is something interesting. It's a comparison of Ultraman to Eva. It's looking very very familiar.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/ … 463604.jpg

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#13 | Back to Top12-02-2010 03:56:33 PM

Giovanna
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From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8730
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Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

satyreyes wrote:

It seems worth noting that (per Wikipedia) End of Evangelion was released on July 19, 1997, while the Utena anime ran from April 2 to December 24, 1997.  Since the shot in question is from the last episode of Utena, it seems like technically, chronologically, Ikuni would be ripping off Anno, not vice versa!

This is a different film. This is the second of four planned 'rebuilds' of the original series in movie format. End of Evangelion was exactly that--another vision of the finale of the series, and that came out in '97. This movie, Rebuild 2: You Can(not) Advance (I think) came out like last year or the year before. school-eng101


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
Chiefest of Calamities

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#14 | Back to Top12-02-2010 04:08:41 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

Ohh, cool!  I had no idea that was going on -- shows how in-touch I am with anime these days emot-smile  In that case, Anno is clearly ripping (or riffing) off Ikuhara, and he should be congratulated for doing it so faithfully!

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#15 | Back to Top12-02-2010 09:37:49 PM

moonrabbit
New Student
Registered: 07-31-2010
Posts: 4

Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

Giovanna wrote:

I can't remember the name but there was some genki shojo anime that was basically exactly what SKU mocked that ripped huge chunks from the opening sequence.

A bit off-topic, but there's a manga called Shitsurakuen that has a TON of similarities to Utena. Even the title, "Paradise Lost" in Japanese, makes me think of the lyrics in Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku. The basic plot centers around a girl who wants to become a knight and protect the girls of the school from an abusive battle game staged by the mysterious all-male student council.  It even has weapons coming out of people's chests, no joke.

The first time I saw that scene in Rebuild of Evangelion, I didn't even think to connect it to Utena, haha. emot-redface

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#16 | Back to Top12-03-2010 09:28:38 AM

the_architect
Saionji Slapper
From: Italy
Registered: 12-03-2010
Posts: 22

Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

moonrabbit wrote:

Yeah, in regards to the final scene of 2.0, here's a scene-for-scene comparison someone made: http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8541/skurebuild.jpg

Wow. Nice to see that my crappy montage finally came to the Rose Garden! (and gave me a reason to subscribe after months and months of lurking around here emot-wink)
It was originally posted on the EvaGeeks forums. I have to thank one of my friends I met there who introduced me to Utena. I actually watched SKU after seeing Evangelion 2.0 when I heard from her about the ending scene homage, and by the end I had already become an obsessed Utena fan emot-biggrin
By the way, I took a few liberties in rearranging the order of some SKU screenshots to better match the scene in 2.0, but it was just a minor tweak.

moonrabbit wrote:

I think I read somewhere that Anno actually wanted Ikuhara on the Eva staff...

Anno himself wrote about that on his personal website (a translation is archived here). According to it, he even chose for one of the main characters the name "Rei" as a gift to his friend Ikuhara

Ayanami is from a warship of the former Japanese navy. Rei is just a pun of 零 [rei, "zero"], but actually named after Rei Hino of Sailor Moon. At the time, this was a bait to invite Iku-chan to the staff, but he ran away. Too bad.

(I guess every Eva fan will understand the "running away" bit emot-wink)

satyreyes wrote:

In that case, Anno is clearly ripping (or riffing) off Ikuhara, and he should be congratulated for doing it so faithfully!

It's interesting to note that according to the Evangelion 2.0 Complete Records Collection the scene was proposed by the screenwriter Yōji Enokido, who worked on some episodes of the original Evangelion TV series and on many episodes of SKU, including 37-39. For those interested, there is a translation of the interview with Enokido here 1 2 3

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#17 | Back to Top12-03-2010 11:23:32 AM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8730
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Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

emot-aaa

LOVE.

I always knew there was a connection between Ikuhara and Anno, Utena and Eva, but I didn't know it was Enokido. Go figure, he's the creepy dark shadow over both stories. emot-wink

You know what, seriously, there really needs to be a comparison essay or something done--there's too much similar here to ignore, and a lot to say about things that are different. Right off the top of my head, Shinji and Utena are polar opposites--one has almost no motivation, flails, and runs away every third episode, the other motivates herself and by it runs right into a spiny brick wall made of Akio cars and swords. Neither has exactly the most informed approach on life, but both are completely products of what's come before. A frightening thought, when you consider their youth, and an encouraging thought, when you consider they both break free of the yoke of their pasts in the end. SKU and Eva say, oftentimes, very much the same thing, and sometimes in very similar ways. (For chrissakes they both have 'brainless doll' female antaga-protaga-wtf-ists!) You really have to wonder if the big differences are the manifestations of their creators, not just Ikuhara and Anno, but the entire respective staffs. Who conveyed the message more clearly? Who felt better about what they were saying? I wonder. emot-smile

PS. FFFFFFF I don't have time to be on another forum I don't emot-gonk


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
Chiefest of Calamities

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#18 | Back to Top12-03-2010 03:19:00 PM

Emiemipoemi
Troublesome Insect
Registered: 12-10-2006
Posts: 649

Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

;_; my two favorite fandoms come together in perfect harmony

i always felt there was some connection with these two . . . how could i seriously love them both so much in such a similar way without feeling they were connected?

i'm so happyyyyy <:'3



Giovanna wrote:

PS. FFFFFFF I don't have time to be on another forum I don't emot-gonk

This. I logged into evageeks.org just a couple days ago since every 5 months or so my obsession with Eva pops up again and lemme tell ya . . . as much as I love reading everything and as much as I looooove Eva, there is no way I could ever lurk that forum as much as I lurk this one. (Plus you guys are way more friendly.)

Last edited by Emiemipoemi (12-03-2010 03:22:48 PM)

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#19 | Back to Top12-04-2010 06:52:49 AM

the_architect
Saionji Slapper
From: Italy
Registered: 12-03-2010
Posts: 22

Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

Giovanna wrote:

I always knew there was a connection between Ikuhara and Anno, Utena and Eva, but I didn't know it was Enokido. Go figure, he's the creepy dark shadow over both stories. emot-wink

There are a few interviews between Ikuhara and Anno available online but none of them focuses directly on their works. As you say, in both cases large parts of the stories were influenced by the staff, and at least in Evangelion's case we know that the staff used to throw around *really* weird ideas that fortunately (or not) didn't make it to the final work.

Giovanna wrote:

Right off the top of my head, Shinji and Utena are polar opposites--one has almost no motivation, flails, and runs away every third episode, the other motivates herself and by it runs right into a spiny brick wall made of Akio cars and swords.

That's right, but the Shinji in the "Rebuild" movies is a different character than the Shinji in the original series. He's more emotionally adjusted and can certainly be more motivated than before, especially when his... er, "princess" is in danger. That's not always a good thing, as he can go to the point of destroying the world to save her. (fortunately, non-heteronormative bishounen are always around to save the day)

Emiemipoemi wrote:

This. I logged into evageeks.org just a couple days ago since every 5 months or so my obsession with Eva pops up again and lemme tell ya . . . as much as I love reading everything and as much as I looooove Eva, there is no way I could ever lurk that forum as much as I lurk this one. (Plus you guys are way more friendly.)

You're right, EvaGeeks isn't one of the most friendly and relaxing places on the internet, with trolls, some rude members and "funny" moderation. But hey, it's an Evangelion forum, the antisocial behaviour of the members is fitting to the show they talk about school-devil

As much as I both love and hate that place, I must admit that they had some interesting ideas, my favourite one is probably their Commentary Project. Unfortunately it was more or less abandoned years ago, but we're (slowly) working to restart it.
Having something similar for SKU would be awesome (well, one can dream, right? emot-wink)

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#20 | Back to Top12-04-2010 10:19:16 AM

Emiemipoemi
Troublesome Insect
Registered: 12-10-2006
Posts: 649

Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

the_architect wrote:

As much as I both love and hate that place, I must admit that they had some interesting ideas, my favourite one is probably their Commentary Project. Unfortunately it was more or less abandoned years ago, but we're (slowly) working to restart it.
Having something similar for SKU would be awesome (well, one can dream, right? emot-wink)

If anyplace is gonna do an Utena commentary, this is the place. school-sherlock You're right, too. The Eva Commentary is definitely the best part of the site. I hope they finish it one day.

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#21 | Back to Top12-04-2010 05:53:33 PM

purplepolecat
Atlantean Singer
From: Vancouver, B.C.
Registered: 03-26-2007
Posts: 570

Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

Talking of Utena shout-outs, check out the cover of the latest Hayate the Combat Butler DVD:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclo … p?id=15689

I've never seen this show, but it sounds like it does a lot of otaku references and parodies.


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#22 | Back to Top12-05-2010 03:43:11 PM

the_architect
Saionji Slapper
From: Italy
Registered: 12-03-2010
Posts: 22

Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

Emiemipoemi wrote:

If anyplace is gonna do an Utena commentary, this is the place. school-sherlock You're right, too. The Eva Commentary is definitely the best part of the site.

Of course this is the right place emot-wink
But we need a few things first: the Eva commentary was built around the official scripts that were included with the remastered Renewal edition (here's an example). Was something like that ever released for the Utena TV series? I've looked around but I haven't found anything similar. Of course it would be awesome if our friends at Nozomi found a way to include the translated scripts on their new DVDs...

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#23 | Back to Top12-05-2010 05:46:38 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8730
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Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

Nope, we ain't got that. emot-frown

What we do have are the original fan-translations of the series in script format. This was back before fansubbing was easy and common--the scripts were a fan community project to encourage fansubbing. We general use them for reference and analysis over the scripts used in the American releases of the show, since they're more consistent and agreed to be more accurate overall. They're on Empty Movement, actually. emot-smile http://ohtori.nu/scripts


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
Chiefest of Calamities

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#24 | Back to Top12-07-2010 03:37:27 PM

LectitoErgoSum
Juri Jeerer
From: On a train of thought.
Registered: 01-15-2010
Posts: 42

Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

The whole Utena/Evangelion comparison has got me thinking about this brilliant crossover between the two, Shin Kakumei Evangelion. Not sure who wrote it, but there's a lot of thought put into the similarities and contrasts between the characters and the plots, and how they're integrated.


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#25 | Back to Top12-12-2010 03:37:20 PM

liberrrty
Miki Molester
From: The land of the white rose
Registered: 08-31-2010
Posts: 39

Re: HOLY SHIT WAS THAT UTENA I JUST SAW IN EVANGELION

YES! I KNEW it wasn't me just being crazy and seeing Utena everywhere I go.

On a side note on Utena/Shinji being polar opposites yet the same, can you also count the fact that they both don't fit the typical gender role. Utena being the girl/prince she is and Shinji being designed to be very feminine looking and his taking the submissive/'female' role in some of his relationships (noteably with Kaworu and Asuka) and in life.

And they both have playboy double agents, supressed lesbians, manipulative/abusive older male familial figures and I'm sure I could go on...

emot-redface This thread just made my day emot-dance.


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