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HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top12-13-2006 12:17:56 AM

Ragnarok
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From: Canada
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DVD Commentary

I was trying to stick this into the Utena/Anthy thread but this goes on for too long to stick it in. (It takes them forever to get back to the topic!)

But I spent a long time typing this, so let's not waste it. Apologies for typos and the like.

This is from the commentary found on the last DVD, episode 37.

DVD Commentary wrote:

Mediator: Putting the bare chest topic aside... This series is vey popular among people who are gay. What's your opinion towards that?
Ikuhara: Gay people around the world like this series.
Saito: Really? You want to say that so definitively?
Ikuhara: I mean when I say around the world...
Saito: It's true that there're various types of couple pairings... but you can also say that there aren't any really. I guess there're many different ways to read between the lines.
Ikuhara: And... This series is the only series of its kind. How do I explain what I'm trying to say? There're tons of anime with eroticism, but I'm pretty sure there isn't another anime that tells the story of two girls so innocently. In that respect I think it's popular because this is the only one that does that.
Mediator: Was that your intention from the beginning?
Ikuhara: Yes. I didn't tell Ms. Saito but I was planning on it.
*laughing*
Saito: Initially I wasn't told anything about that. He asked me to draw something where the two were close so I drew a piece where the two were next to each other looking rather friendly. He was extremely happy. I had no idea in the beginning what he was thinking but I figured it out at the end that his goal was to make me draw the two girls looking friendly.
Ikuhara: In the beginning, I brought it up lightheartedly during a meeting... She got really angry and said, "If that's the case, I'm out!" I realized it was something I wasn't supposed to say and I decided to keep it to myself.
Saito: No that wasn't it. If I remember correctly... We started a debate about how we should make it more entertaining for girls. We were on a workshop trip and the debate turned into a fight. Mr. Ikuhara wouldn't give any consideratoin about enjoyment for girls. As a professional manga artist I couldn't offer such a joyless story to the target audience. We had this huge clash of opinions, which created a lot of friction between us.
Ikuhara: When that happend, the entire Utena project was almost scrapped. It was such a big fight, the entire project was in jeopardy. It was such a painful fight I got carried into the hospital the day after.
*More laughter*
Saito: You did?
Ikuhara: Yeah! It was New Years and I had... It was New Years and I had acute... What was it again?
Saito: An acute infection?
Ikuhara: All of a sudden I...
Saito: Was that after the fight? Are you sure you didn't come down with it before the fight?
Ikuhara: No it was after.
Saito: Are you sure? It was before.
Ikuhara: No, after.
Saito: You fainted the second we started the workshop, so we didn't know what to do.
Ikuhara: No you're wrong. It happend on New Years.
Saito: You're right.
Ikuhara: It happend after. You put me in such a tight spot and from the immense pressure...
Mediator: Your stomach?
Ikuhara: I came down with acute gastroenteritis or something. On New Years... On New Years Day I was taken to the emergency room.
Saito: Mr. Enokido, the scriptwriter and I went with him. We were discussing, "If this is how the year is starting, what's in store for us later?"
Ikuhara: Then I came out of the hospital room riding in a wheelchair! Ms. Saito was so flabbergasted.
Saito: It's because I didn't know how serious it was.
Ikuhara: At the time I was extremely nervous, so...
Saito: Were you?
Ikuhara: I was!
Saito: The thing is, the staff went on a workship trip for the first time and we locked ourselves in the hotel. We barely got started and all Mr. Ikuhara would do was sleep. I really wondered if he was going to do any work. I was continuously glaring at him.
Ikuhara: That's because Ms. Saito vetoed my idea from the get go about Anthy and Utena being lovey-dovey. I was too shocked to do work. She said, "I quit if you're taking that route!" I figured I'd have to hide it from her because I was going to do it anyway. *Laughs*
Saito: Really? You decided after such an internal struggle?
Ikuhara: It was such a struggle.
Saito: I was finally able to clear those three days after I somehow managed to rearrange my busy schedule. Then Mr. Ikuhara would be sleeping the entire time so it was infuriating! I couldn't do anything about it so I kept glaring at him where he'd be rolling around and I'd work on other parts with the other staff members. It was quite an upsetting workshop trip.
Ikuhara:  I was dealing with my own issues.
Mediator: This concludes the story of how the project began.
Saito: Oh, it's over already?
Ikuhara: It's over already.
Saito: It is.
*laughter*

Last edited by Ragnarok (12-13-2006 12:46:38 AM)


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#2 | Back to Top12-13-2006 12:38:00 AM

rhyaniwyn
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From: Tallahassee, FL
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Re: DVD Commentary

They are so weird...why do I feel like that story is mostly made up?  I didn't think Saito actually had an objection to them being "friendly" ... But, then, I've never read any of her other stuff, so I was just sort-of assuming.  Although, her Juri is in love with men.........


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#3 | Back to Top12-13-2006 12:52:05 AM

Ragnarok
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Re: DVD Commentary

They are very entertaining the listen to. If I ever feel crazy again, I'll write out the part where Ikuhara starts questioning the mediator's sexuality. emot-dance

I don't think the story is made up so much as misremembered. Neither of them can quite remember specifics unless it's to tell the other one they're wrong. emot-wink There's a couple things they don't recall correctly from the series. (The bit about Miki mispronouncing Chu Chu's name is attributed to the shadow girls, for instance.)

But I don't think Chiho Saito had a problem with Utena/Anthy because of homophobic reasons or anything. The gist seems to be she wanted the series to appeal to the core audience first, I'm guessing that lesbianism isn't the logical route to go for that.

Last edited by Ragnarok (12-13-2006 12:52:34 AM)


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#4 | Back to Top12-13-2006 12:52:37 AM

ShatteredMirror
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From: Sacramento, CA
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Re: DVD Commentary

Saito's characters are quite different from Ikuhara's but that's often the case when manga is translated into anime. And Ikuhara's just nuts, which is why I like him so much.

Last edited by ShatteredMirror (12-13-2006 12:53:20 AM)


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#5 | Back to Top12-13-2006 12:53:41 AM

Maarika
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Re: DVD Commentary

Maybe they drank too much. It was New Year's Eve! school-devil
And yes, they're weird. But I guess no one else could have ever made something like Utena.


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#6 | Back to Top12-13-2006 01:48:55 AM

ShatteredMirror
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From: Sacramento, CA
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Re: DVD Commentary

They probably did drink too much. After all, Ikuhara was rushed to the hospital with some horrible ailment. Surely excessive alcohol consumption would aggravate such a condition.


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#7 | Back to Top12-13-2006 07:27:44 AM

Giovanna
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Re: DVD Commentary

ShatteredMirror wrote:

Saito's characters are quite different from Ikuhara's but that's often the case when manga is translated into anime. And Ikuhara's just nuts, which is why I like him so much.

Ah, but it wasn't a translation, really.

I need to get the DVDs already. emot-frown


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#8 | Back to Top12-13-2006 08:52:31 PM

Sevelle
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From: Virginia the Great
Registered: 11-07-2006
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Re: DVD Commentary

Giovanna wrote:

ShatteredMirror wrote:

Saito's characters are quite different from Ikuhara's but that's often the case when manga is translated into anime. And Ikuhara's just nuts, which is why I like him so much.

Ah, but it wasn't a translation, really.

I need to get the DVDs already. emot-frown

I need to listen to that commentary, I never knew that was on there! *sheesh*


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#9 | Back to Top12-13-2006 09:54:10 PM

Ragnarok
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Re: DVD Commentary

I would have thought the commentary was old news by now, I only brought it up because of the other thread...

Does this mean no one knows what Miki's stop watch is all about? school-eng101


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#10 | Back to Top12-14-2006 12:27:07 AM

Xu Yuan
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Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 189

Re: DVD Commentary

Supposedly it's timing till the next person's lines are, but there are a few discrepancies in that that we see. Just a cop out excuse, like Ikuhara usually does.


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#11 | Back to Top12-14-2006 05:49:46 PM

Ragnarok
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Re: DVD Commentary

I was willing to take his word for it, rather than actually time it myself. emot-smile

Where are the discrepancies? If it syncs up more often than it doesn't, I'd say there's something to it. And if it usually doesn't, then he fooled me. emot-redface


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#12 | Back to Top12-14-2006 07:04:45 PM

Frau Eva
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Re: DVD Commentary

Ragnarok wrote:

If it syncs up more often than it doesn't, I'd say there's something to it. And if it usually doesn't, then he fooled me. emot-redface

Even if the time they used syncs up, the stopwatch itself has to mean something. Otherwise, why include it? Sure, I would see them having it the same time as the last line just because they need to put something there, but the stopwatch wouldn't be there just for no reason. I mean, its not like its there just to look cool because it doesn't, so...


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#13 | Back to Top12-14-2006 07:16:53 PM

Razara
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From: Wuzzy Happy Akio Town (What?)
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Re: DVD Commentary

Ragnarok wrote:

Does this mean no one knows what Miki's stop watch is all about? school-eng101

That stopwatch drives me crazy. I know that it means something, or else they wouldn't have bothered, but I'm not sure what it means.

When I get the chance, I'll skim through the series and take notes on each time he clicks his stopwatch and search for some sort of connect. It won't be the first time I've done something like that. Nanami asks what it means in episode 17 (my favorite spot to search for symbolism,) and the question itself seems to be related to Juri and her locket, which is an interesting thing to keep in mind.

Last edited by Razara (12-14-2006 07:17:33 PM)

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#14 | Back to Top12-14-2006 07:48:59 PM

Ragnarok
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Re: DVD Commentary

Frau Eva wrote:

Ragnarok wrote:

If it syncs up more often than it doesn't, I'd say there's something to it. And if it usually doesn't, then he fooled me. emot-redface

Even if the time they used syncs up, the stopwatch itself has to mean something. Otherwise, why include it? Sure, I would see them having it the same time as the last line just because they need to put something there, but the stopwatch wouldn't be there just for no reason. I mean, its not like its there just to look cool because it doesn't, so...

Well I don't know, why does it have to have another meaning? If it's something Ikuhara thought was neat, isn't that enough reason to put it in? To my knowledge no one has come up with an alternate meaning to it. I'd be happy to hear about one, I just haven't come across any.


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#15 | Back to Top12-14-2006 08:04:39 PM

Sevelle
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From: Virginia the Great
Registered: 11-07-2006
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Re: DVD Commentary

Ragnarok wrote:

Frau Eva wrote:

Ragnarok wrote:

If it syncs up more often than it doesn't, I'd say there's something to it. And if it usually doesn't, then he fooled me. emot-redface

Even if the time they used syncs up, the stopwatch itself has to mean something. Otherwise, why include it? Sure, I would see them having it the same time as the last line just because they need to put something there, but the stopwatch wouldn't be there just for no reason. I mean, its not like its there just to look cool because it doesn't, so...

Well I don't know, why does it have to have another meaning? If it's something Ikuhara thought was neat, isn't that enough reason to put it in? To my knowledge no one has come up with an alternate meaning to it. I'd be happy to hear about one, I just haven't come across any.

I always thought the stop watch dealt with the fact he was a musician, and was just measuring out the  . . . Forget it, I bloody cannot come up with a decent response.


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#16 | Back to Top12-14-2006 08:25:33 PM

Blade
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From: Darkest Canada
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Re: DVD Commentary

Razara wrote:

That stopwatch drives me crazy. I know that it means something, or else they wouldn't have bothered,

I would consider that a terribly dangerous assumption to make about something in an Ikuhara work. emot-wink

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#17 | Back to Top12-14-2006 08:29:16 PM

Razara
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From: Wuzzy Happy Akio Town (What?)
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Re: DVD Commentary

Blade wrote:

I would consider that a terribly dangerous assumption to make about something in an Ikuhara work. emot-wink

But to me, saying that Miki's stopwatch doesn't having a deeper meaning is like telling a child that Santa isn't real. emot-frown

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#18 | Back to Top12-14-2006 08:50:27 PM

Blade
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Re: DVD Commentary

Razara wrote:

But to me, saying that Miki's stopwatch doesn't having a deeper meaning is like telling a child that Santa isn't real. emot-frown

Carry on then. I'm the guy who wrote a freaking essay analysing Keiko. I'd certainly be a hypocrite to tell you not to overanalyse Miki's stopwatch. emot-biggrin

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#19 | Back to Top12-14-2006 09:07:59 PM

Xu Yuan
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 189

Re: DVD Commentary

Ah, did you? If so I would love to read it, besides Aiko she's my favorite character in the show. I read one not sure if it was yours... but anyway, an example of this discrepancy is 15  when he presses it as he wakes up without saying a line (in my recorded memory)


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#20 | Back to Top12-21-2006 08:35:34 PM

Yasha
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Re: DVD Commentary


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#21 | Back to Top12-21-2006 09:27:52 PM

Xu Yuan
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Re: DVD Commentary

Ah, yes that is the one I read, it also made me into a Keiko fan as well!emot-keke


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#22 | Back to Top12-27-2006 09:20:26 PM

junior
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Registered: 11-18-2006
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Re: DVD Commentary

Sevelle wrote:

Ragnarok wrote:

Frau Eva wrote:


Even if the time they used syncs up, the stopwatch itself has to mean something. Otherwise, why include it? Sure, I would see them having it the same time as the last line just because they need to put something there, but the stopwatch wouldn't be there just for no reason. I mean, its not like its there just to look cool because it doesn't, so...

Well I don't know, why does it have to have another meaning? If it's something Ikuhara thought was neat, isn't that enough reason to put it in? To my knowledge no one has come up with an alternate meaning to it. I'd be happy to hear about one, I just haven't come across any.

I always thought the stop watch dealt with the fact he was a musician, and was just measuring out the  . . . Forget it, I bloody cannot come up with a decent response.

I think the stopwatch is just a commentary thing on dramatic timing.  In the episode where Nanami keeps planting the pets at Anthy's house, the watch is used to break up one scene into three small scenes, with the stopwatch providing the transition.  It's just a symbolic representation of the role of the director, and the rule of dramatic timing and such, he'll often click it after a dramatic line or whatever, I don't think the numbers actually on the watch mean anything.

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#23 | Back to Top12-27-2006 09:31:25 PM

Nessy
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Registered: 11-04-2006
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Re: DVD Commentary

Xu Yuan wrote:

Supposedly it's timing till the next person's lines are, but there are a few discrepancies in that that we see. Just a cop out excuse, like Ikuhara usually does.

I've been keeping a stopwatch log, and there's definitely more than a few discrepancies. I mean, even in the first episode the "next line" thing can't be right. (The stopwatch clicks around ~9:50 and it reads 0:3.12--the next line is Miki's and occurs about one second later [~9:51], and the next line after that is Anthy's and happens in the next second. [~9:52] So...)

Edit: Doesn't work in the second episode either--the stopwatch says 0:16.47 and Wakaba announces something cutely at Utena ~6 seconds later.

Last edited by Nessy (12-27-2006 09:34:59 PM)

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#24 | Back to Top12-27-2006 09:46:19 PM

Ragnarok
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From: Canada
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Re: DVD Commentary

It's the line just previous to the stop watch being clicked, not the line which follows after the clicking.

Or that's what Ikuhara said, I still haven't checked it myself. emot-smile


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#25 | Back to Top12-27-2006 11:45:30 PM

Nessy
Sunlit Gardener (Prelude)
Registered: 11-04-2006
Posts: 169
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Re: DVD Commentary

Wait, so according to Ikuhara the stopwatch says the time between the last line that was said and the next line said?
Or it says the time between the clicking and the line right before it?

I am so confused.

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