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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top05-08-2010 11:12:42 PM

Malacoda
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 07-26-2009
Posts: 180

Physical Violence in SKU

So, a really interesting discussion began over here about the various levels of violence committed by various characters and how the viewer reacts to it. There's mostly been a focus on Saionji and his violence toward Anthy but a few other characters (Juri, Kozue, Utena) have been mentioned. Though I'm surprised no one's mentioned epsiode 12 and how Wakaba and Utena slap each other.

Some of topic has actually been addressed before here and here.

I wish I had more intelligent things to say but I'm only making this thread so I can easily find this discussion in the future.

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#2 | Back to Top05-08-2010 11:42:36 PM

Ico
Juri Jeerer
From: Over the moon
Registered: 03-30-2010
Posts: 48
Website

Re: Physical Violence in SKU

To answer Satyr's question in the other thread: the episode where Saionji slaps Miki is episode 25.  I just looked it up.  school-eng101  It's when Saionji is convinced by Akio to duel again.  He comes to the rose garden to challenge Utena and claim Anthy, and Miki is there and tries to get in his way.  A casual blow from Saionji sends the poor boy flying.  Saionji grabs Anthy and issues threats.  Utena yells at him.  Cut to shadow girls and duel.

Last edited by Ico (05-08-2010 11:52:57 PM)

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#3 | Back to Top05-09-2010 12:26:06 PM

Malacoda
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 07-26-2009
Posts: 180

Re: Physical Violence in SKU

Wow! That is one hell of slap.

http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/10380-2/Series_ep25_168.jpg

Makes you wonder how long it took for the (probable bruise) from this kick to heal.

Do any of the other characters use such force when dueling?

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#4 | Back to Top05-09-2010 03:17:22 PM

Katzenklavier
Wondrous Sexual Eggplant.
From: Back of your thoughts.
Registered: 09-13-2008
Posts: 1120

Re: Physical Violence in SKU

Malacoda: Do any of the other characters use such force when dueling?

I pointed out at some point that Wakaba's holding her sword to Utena's cheek echoes Saionji pushing his sword up under Anthy's chin. Similarly, her duel is also one of the most violent, second to Touga and of course the final Akio fight. As Gio has noted, she was probably the only one out to truly kill. I believe this is probably a reflection to her bond with Saionji. In an odd parallel to Utena, she too takes on the behaviors of her idealized prince.


We must go forward, not backward. Upward, not forward. And always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.

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#5 | Back to Top05-09-2010 04:22:22 PM

Malacoda
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 07-26-2009
Posts: 180

Re: Physical Violence in SKU

Oh yeah! I remember you mentioning that in this thread.

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#6 | Back to Top05-09-2010 05:33:47 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: Physical Violence in SKU

Ico wrote:

To answer Satyr's question in the other thread: the episode where Saionji slaps Miki is episode 25.  I just looked it up.  school-eng101  It's when Saionji is convinced by Akio to duel again.  He comes to the rose garden to challenge Utena and claim Anthy, and Miki is there and tries to get in his way.  A casual blow from Saionji sends the poor boy flying.  Saionji grabs Anthy and issues threats.  Utena yells at him.  Cut to shadow girls and duel.

I need to rewatch the Akio Arc!

Katzenklavier wrote:

I pointed out at some point that Wakaba's holding her sword to Utena's cheek echoes Saionji pushing his sword up under Anthy's chin. Similarly, her duel is also one of the most violent, second to Touga and of course the final Akio fight.

Nanami's first duel is also up there.  She's the only duelist to keep fighting after losing her rose.  She might not have been out to kill, but she was so enraged she might have ended up killing anyway; certainly she had no interest in the foliage on Utena's chest.  We tend to forget about her because the duel is neither so viscerally personal as Wakaba's, nor so cruelly impersonal as Akio's, but it was pretty eyebrow-raising to watch Nanami's rose scatter and then watch the duel not stop.

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#7 | Back to Top05-09-2010 06:44:55 PM

haelsyx
Caretaker
From: sunlit state
Registered: 10-09-2009
Posts: 211
Website

Re: Physical Violence in SKU

Why is it that the only legitimate wounds that reveal themselves are from slaps? I understand that a kick to the chest could leave a bruise covered by clothing but its not like anyone really acts like they've been injured unless slapped. It was also established that there's really no bleeding after Touga's accident, as I remember reading in one of the other interpretation threads, but I think the fact that people can turn red in the face (especially after getting slapped) is proof of the fact that blood does exist inside their bodies. (yay nonaliens?)

Would it be okay in this case to say that the super fast healing of certain (barring Touga) characters is due to this being an anime, or is that never the case with SKU?

Last edited by haelsyx (05-09-2010 06:48:53 PM)


{livejournal} {youtube}
Its an odd thing, but anyone who disappears is said to be in San Francisco-Oscar Wilde.
Anyone get the feeling finding Utena is going to be a lot like where in the world is Carmen San Diego?

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#8 | Back to Top05-09-2010 07:04:53 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: Physical Violence in SKU

Haelsyx, personally, I'd dismiss it as Plot Armor before appealing to the possible extraterrestrial origin of the cast (apart from the Shadow Girls, of course).  Events in most stories have to serve the plot.  Violence serves Utena's plot quite a lot more often than actual wounds do, so most violence doesn't end in real physical harm.  It would certainly be a change of pace if Utena realistically ended up in the ER (and Saionji in juvenile hall) after Saionji's kick knocked her for several loops, but that would be a different show.

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#9 | Back to Top05-09-2010 07:47:13 PM

Alexa
Anthy Assailer
Registered: 12-13-2006
Posts: 74

Re: Physical Violence in SKU

satyreyes wrote:

Violence serves Utena's plot quite a lot more often than actual wounds do, so most violence doesn't end in real physical harm.

That, and also the fact that during its original run SKU was marketed as and placed in a time slot traditionally for kid's shows.  (I wanna say it was on like, Sunday morning, but I don't remember exactly.)  So in writing the series, they had to work around a lot of sensitive issues and keep it sort of outwardly "PG."

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#10 | Back to Top05-10-2010 12:09:26 AM

farthingale
Saionji Slapper
From: Cape Town
Registered: 03-07-2009
Posts: 21
Website

Re: Physical Violence in SKU

I will be bad and admit that both the slap delivered to Miki that sent hiim flying and the kick delivered to Utena that was so shockingly brutal... were... kinda hot. ///*-*///

But yeah, the violence got more and more symbolic and brutal as the time went on. Shiori's car crash should have killed her. If she hadn't been driving a metaphor, that is.


http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/RoseFarthingale/Utenaerror.png

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#11 | Back to Top05-10-2010 04:00:14 AM

Cyrias
Tenjou Tilter
From: Exploring the psyche
Registered: 10-04-2009
Posts: 83

Re: Physical Violence in SKU

farthingale wrote:

If she hadn't been driving a metaphor, that is.

Somehow that quote sounds so risque emot-tongue But I like driving metaphors. xD I think the sword fighting and the slapping are reflected in how the duelists feel about each other and their inter-personal relationships. poptart


In lumine tuo, videbimus amor ('In your light, we shall love') Slippy slippery mambo~ everyone at Ohtori is in some kind of spiritual land, created by Goddess Anthy and her brother Akio?!

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#12 | Back to Top07-03-2010 12:02:53 AM

teyhy
High Tripper
From: Ecuador
Registered: 04-27-2010
Posts: 245
Website

Re: Physical Violence in SKU

haelsyx wrote: Why is it that the only legitimate wounds that reveal themselves are from slaps?

Or on clothing like here:
http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/5156-2/Series_ep12_013.jpg

One would think that teens with sharp sword would get a cut somewhere from time to time, uh?

Anyway I was checking this thread 'cause I wanted to discuss an experience I had with Utena. I was watching the movie in my room and my brother came to see what I was doing. He watched the movie until the end of Saionji's duel; he saw Saionji be physical violent to Anthy and Anthy kissing Utena. He almost didn't see Utena grow hair and lost her pants.
Instead of finding this offensive:
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad133/teyhy/for%20fo/Movie_Screen_0202.jpg?t=1278136579
He found this offensive:
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad133/teyhy/for%20fo/Movie_Screen_0246.jpg?t=1278136609
emot-rolleyes I can't image what would have happened if he saw this:
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad133/teyhy/for%20fo/Movie_Screen_1128.jpg?t=1278136642
or this http://ohtori.nu/galerie/v/movie/screen … 9.jpg.html


Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - H. Berlioz.
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad133/teyhy/for%20fo/Untitled-1copy.jpg?t=1280266589

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#13 | Back to Top07-03-2010 12:39:35 AM

chrisb
Eternal Eschatologist
From: Tx,USA
Registered: 01-18-2010
Posts: 956

Re: Physical Violence in SKU

How about when Utena kicks Juri in her groin when she gets to close in episode 7? I think that was the most painful shot for me lol.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a358/clow987/untitled-19.jpg


http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a358/clow987/Christmas2011SSSigGift.png

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#14 | Back to Top07-03-2010 11:07:34 AM

Calamity
High Tripper
Registered: 06-13-2010
Posts: 244

Re: Physical Violence in SKU

I was actually discussing the violence of the series with one of my friends a while back and to be honest, I'm happy with the way the series turned out. I mean in the sense of it not being overly gorey. Let's face it, episode 39 could have been a complete bloodbath considering all the impaling that happens in it. I feel that 39 was handled incredibly well, with showing minimal wounds and blood it helps to work on our emotions more than just "Wow, that's a ton of blood" like that happens in a lot of more recent animes. Sure it's unrealistic, cause by the time she gets into the coffin Utena should be a bloody mess, but I felt it affected my emotions more to have the wounds not exactly grandiose, so I could focus more on what is going on in the scene.

I have to completely agree that Wakaba and Nanami's duels are definitely the most violent (until Akio's duel that is). One of the reasons Wakaba's duel is one of my favorite of the show is the fact that it is so animalistic at it's core.

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#15 | Back to Top07-05-2010 06:03:26 AM

OnionPrince
Covert Diarist
From: Nagoya
Registered: 10-28-2007
Posts: 876

Re: Physical Violence in SKU

teyhy wrote:

One would think that teens with sharp sword would get a cut somewhere from time to time, uh?

Well, it's not just clothing. In the duel with Wakaba, Utena gets a bit of an impromptu hair trim. emot-wink
http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/8370-1/Series_ep20_150.jpg

I'm going to agree with Calamity: this duel is so animalistic. It's the most moving in the series, IMO.

Still, the lack of death and serious injury by sword is puzzling. You'd think teenagers wouldn't be able to control their strikes with such precision. I think this lends credence to the theory that all the main characters have been repeating/continuing their lives at Ohtori for countless years, and thus they've had ages to improve their dueling skills.

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