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HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top03-30-2010 03:05:16 PM

chrisb
Eternal Eschatologist
From: Tx,USA
Registered: 01-18-2010
Posts: 956

Wasn't everyone to relaxed about all the slapping?

Seems like a lot of the rather painful looking slaps were merely returned with a glare. I would have done a lot more than just a mean glare if my friend just got slapped to the hard concrete. Was this kind of a joke in the series where they made subtle fun at all the dramatic bitch slapping in classic shoujo?


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#2 | Back to Top03-30-2010 03:47:22 PM

OnlyInThisLight
KING OF ALL DUCKS
Registered: 01-15-2008
Posts: 4411

Re: Wasn't everyone to relaxed about all the slapping?

You kind of have to look at it incident by incident. 


When Utena first sees Anthy being slapped she gets pissed, only until she sees Touga 'handling' the situation, then, because she has a few hang-ups of her own, forgets about it.  I mean.  A man got involved.  A man in a uniform.  No need to worry, right?

Later she rightly gets pissed, the first time (in the arena) she reacts by whipping Saionji's ass in the duel, and the second by challenging him again while using herself as a barrier between himself and Anthy.  This is for two reasons -1) Ass-whipping scenes cost money and 2) Utena likes solving her problems via duels.  They are ever so much more noble and prince-like and psychologically comfortable than fist-fights.

No one saw Juri slap Anthy.

Nanami and her Henchwomen could care less.

Touga doesn't see Anthy as a much of a person.

Miki does get really riled up over the abuse, and even tries to stop it physically when Saionji advances on her in his Akio Arc duel episode.... and fails.

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#3 | Back to Top03-30-2010 04:11:56 PM

haelsyx
Caretaker
From: sunlit state
Registered: 10-09-2009
Posts: 211
Website

Re: Wasn't everyone to relaxed about all the slapping?

Also don't forget Anthy herself accepts, possibly goads,  slaps. There are a few essays that address it but vaguely I think it just sort of works with her passive-aggressive side. Anthy can't slap back, she's supposed to at least look physically helpless.

Nanami, on the other hand, gets slapped by Keiko at one point and bitch-slaps all three of her minions into place school-devil, reinforcing my belief she'd make a great mafia leader.
The series doesn't condone it,  but they do use it quite often, usually I think to reinforce what Anthy is though that part I'm not too sure about.


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Its an odd thing, but anyone who disappears is said to be in San Francisco-Oscar Wilde.
Anyone get the feeling finding Utena is going to be a lot like where in the world is Carmen San Diego?

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#4 | Back to Top03-31-2010 01:29:43 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8731
Website

Re: Wasn't everyone to relaxed about all the slapping?

OnlyInThisLight wrote:

2) Utena likes solving her problems via duels.  They are ever so much more noble and prince-like and psychologically comfortable than fist-fights.

And yet still it's a situation of violence breeding violence. I think haelsyx's got it. Anthy likes getting slapped. I don't actually take her for a masochist exactly but she has a sort of reverse-victimization thing going on. And that isn't unusual in cases of extremely prolonged exposure to abuse. A common issue in adult women who have never dealt with familial histories of sexual abuse is that they take a strange pride in it 'not being a big deal'. This may manifest as a peculiar overwillingness to discuss explicit details emotionlessly, or it may be utterly ignoring the issue. But it's a situation of taking what you can out of an incredibly unhealthy situation: if you experience that and manage still to be largely functional, you've conquered it on some level even if you've never dealt with it. Anthy I think is like that--she feels a pride in being able to survive abuse. BRING IT ON. Add that to a true superiority complex, and you basically have her grinning affectionately at the kitten that is both helpless in her arms and still able to draw blood clawing at her.

I suspect Touga does have a genuine distaste for Anthy's treatment by Saionji, but not enough of one to seriously and purposefully intervene where it would fuck with his chances of obtaining power. Utena is full of her good and proper righteous indignation, but chooses to solve problems with return violence, sanctioned by the assigning of blame. Dios, I suspect, might have something to say about what it means to turn on someone with 'justified' reasons and manage to be completely baseless in your accusations. Akio would have more to say but it would be so drowned in an ulterior motive that you'd miss the deeper point.


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
Chiefest of Calamities

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#5 | Back to Top03-31-2010 05:43:53 PM

OnlyInThisLight
KING OF ALL DUCKS
Registered: 01-15-2008
Posts: 4411

Re: Wasn't everyone to relaxed about all the slapping?

I thought the question was more why do characters in the series react so lightly to Anthy's abuse, not why Anthy does. 

(Though I do believe that Saionji and Juri do pick up on that facet of her personality, which exacerbates their cruelty and disdain and utter lack of sympathy.)

This sounds like I'm disagreeing -I'm not.  I swears emot-gonk.  Part of that mindset you mentioned interests me specifically, especially when manifest in Utena - the idea that women should deal with it.  On one hand, it's antiquated and sexist - stemming partially from a lack of perspective and the notion that women are meant to passively endure, but also in feminist pride.  Even more so with Utena, there may be a desire to want to play it off as nothing because you want your fellow females to be strong and not victimized - the fallacy is that they place that responsibility on the victim's shoulders.  This conflict is showcased in Utena -she wants Anthy to a be a princess for her by needing to be saved and protected from forces she cannot control, but she also wants to save Anthy by helping her become a stronger woman who does have some element of control.  [She wants to have her rosecake and eat it too, much like with her conflicting desire to be and be loved by the Prince].

The obvious problems with that last bit is that once a princess is saved, she doesn't need a prince anymore.

So in a weird, confused way, Utena does both in reaction to Anthy's abuse.  Gives her a cold shoulder in terms of a support outlet to talk about it, indirectly telling her to stop making such a fuss because Anthy's more feminine weaknesses also embarrass* Utena and her feminist ideals, while going off to fight the bad guys - staving them off only for a certain period of time, of course.


*Me and Stormcrow were just talking about this.  It's called Saving Face, and we do it in social situations in which a person embarrasses themselves or messes up, we may not help - we may flat out turn away or ignore them awkwardly, not out of cruelty or disdain, but in the hopes that by NOT intervening we don't embarrass them further by drawing attention to their loss of face.  You feel a sort of empathy - you feel embarrassed for them and egoistically think, " If that were me, I would just hope no-one saw."

It's kind of like when you watch a scene on television and you know something very very humiliating is about to happen to the main character.  You may say things like "I can't watch!" or (I used to do this a lot) even change the channel until you could be sure the embarrassment was over.  We wanted to help the little fictional person save face.  #:

Last edited by OnlyInThisLight (03-31-2010 05:45:35 PM)

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#6 | Back to Top09-23-2010 11:09:46 PM

CausalityStar
Caretaker
From: Idaho
Registered: 09-12-2010
Posts: 215

Re: Wasn't everyone to relaxed about all the slapping?

I could be that the writer's want us to play the SKU drinking game! Take a shot whenever someone gets slapped.

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#7 | Back to Top09-24-2010 08:59:25 AM

OnlyInThisLight
KING OF ALL DUCKS
Registered: 01-15-2008
Posts: 4411

Re: Wasn't everyone to relaxed about all the slapping?

Maybe it ties in with the whole dueling atmosphere?

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#8 | Back to Top09-24-2010 10:14:04 AM

Phoeny
Saionji Slapper
From: New York
Registered: 09-02-2010
Posts: 24

Re: Wasn't everyone to relaxed about all the slapping?

OnlyInThisLight wrote:

Maybe it ties in with the whole dueling atmosphere?

Too bad there were no gloves to take off.

"You have offended my honor!" *takes glove off, bitchslaps* poptart

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#9 | Back to Top09-26-2010 05:57:41 AM

Saio
Ballgoer
Registered: 06-11-2010
Posts: 156

Re: Wasn't everyone to relaxed about all the slapping?

Cause sometimes happens You've got to do so.
Even to a girs. emot-rolleyes

*Said Saionji-sama* cool

*...and me* emot-keke


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Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis!

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#10 | Back to Top09-29-2010 02:23:22 PM

Notebook Darling
Black Rosarian
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 12-21-2008
Posts: 372
Website

Re: Wasn't everyone to relaxed about all the slapping?

Isn't also very humiliating for yourself to start a scene and fight, while the slappee does nothing?

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