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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top03-20-2010 08:48:44 PM

Malacoda
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 07-26-2009
Posts: 180

Fairy Tale Motifs and Archetypes in SKU

Or, rather, even more motifs and archetypes

I just finished reading a collection of Grimm Fairy Tales (almost three hundred stories!) and I've noticed more motifs and archetypes beyond prince, princess, and witch that appear in SKU. The list is incomplete and unorganized now, but I thought you guys would appreciated it. emot-biggrin

The forest – A fairy tale staple, the forest is the place where some poor fellow gets lost and accidentally stumbles upon a witch's cottage or cursed castle. In SKU, there are two such forests: the forest in the opening fairy tale and the dueling forest (which also includes the dueling arena). These two forests play a similar role to the fairy tale forest. They are at the center of the mixed-up fairy tale. Of course, SKU manages to subvert this motif when Utena discovers that the dueling arena is simply Akio's illusion.

Sibling Relationships – In fairy tales, siblings a) love each other, b) hate each other, or c) scheme against each other. More often than not, fairy tale twins love each other, step-siblings hate each other (and the so-called "evil" step-sibling schemes against the "good" sibling), and other siblings are a mixed bunch. If three brothers are involved, however, the older brothers often scheme against the unsuspecting younger brother. Kozue takes the sibling love just a little too far, Touga (arguably) schemes against Nanami, and I don't even want to get started on Anthy and Akio's relationship. However, I will say that I believe that Anthy and Akio are actually step-siblings. Not only does it explain the different last names, but also it explains their mixed up relationship.

The different types of princes:
    Stereotypical – The "ideal" prince that Utena wishes to become
    Cursed – When a prince angers a witch, the witch usually turns the prince into something very un-princely. Under this definition, Anthy's a witch who turns Dios into a cursed prince (Akio). Mikage and Juri are also (arguably) cursed princes.
    Forgetful – In some fairy tales, the prince is forced to do a series of impossible tasks but the princess does all the work for him. Afterward, the prince plans to marry the princess, but then he does something stupid that makes him forget the princess. Utena does a series of impossible tasks (i.e. the duels) with the help of Dios and/or Anthy so Utena's somewhat like the forgetful prince. However, I mostly included this archetype because I thought a fairy tale with memory issues as a plot device was amusing and very SKU.

The different types of princesses:
    Stereotypical – The damsel in distress
    Bratty – Nanami, need I say more?
    Curse-breaker – When the prince is cursed, the princess has to save the prince. Utena and Wakaba in episode 12 (and if we're going to call Juri a cursed prince...) somewhat fit this archetype. I'm mainly mentioning this because it's an archetype I found more often than I thought I would.
    Helpful – These princesses help the forgetful prince. They also make me wonder why they were ever captured by a witch in the first place if they can chop down a whole forest in an afternoon. Anthy (and even Dios) remind me of this archetype.

Luck of the naοve – It's almost like an absolute rule in fairy tales. The most naοve character (prince or not) will always end up with the gold/princess. This archetype has "Utena" written all over it.

---

Like a said, it's incomplete now (needs more Saionji and Ruka), and I'm sure you guys have some awesome insights that I missed. emot-keke

Last edited by Malacoda (03-21-2010 03:18:32 PM)

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#2 | Back to Top03-20-2010 10:42:23 PM

BalamiyaVardihi
High Tripper
From: New Jersey
Registered: 12-16-2007
Posts: 243

Re: Fairy Tale Motifs and Archetypes in SKU

This is indeed very helpful! I'm enjoying it very much.


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#3 | Back to Top03-21-2010 01:20:25 AM

Dallbun
Tour Guide to Crawling Chaos
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 689

Re: Fairy Tale Motifs and Archetypes in SKU

Malacoda wrote:

The forest – A fairy tale staple, the forest is the place where some poor fellow gets lost and accidentally stumbles upon a witch's cottage or cursed castle.

There's about one shot of it, but of course Past Anthy doesn't live in the middle of a town, either.. it looks pretty forest-y. There's a well-beaten path, though, which I guess makes sense if people are coming to beseech the Rose Prince all the time.

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#4 | Back to Top03-21-2010 08:56:12 AM

Prince_of_Stars
Someday Shiner
From: The Hellsing Organization
Registered: 06-12-2008
Posts: 4165
Website

Re: Fairy Tale Motifs and Archetypes in SKU

Seeing as roses seem to be a big thing in SKU, are flowers of any kind a big deal in the Grimm stories?


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Sir Hellsing: Leader of the Feminine Failure Revolution
Faithfully failing at feminine tasks, gender roles, and the conventionality of femininity since 1990.

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#5 | Back to Top03-21-2010 01:15:59 PM

ShinraiTenchi
Saionji Slapper
From: New York, United States
Registered: 01-28-2010
Posts: 27

Re: Fairy Tale Motifs and Archetypes in SKU

Wow, awesome job with the connections!  I just had a thought though; I thought that Akio's last name was in fact Himemiya but that he took Kanae's surname when he became engaged to her.  I don't think it was ever properly addressed in the anime so I could definitely wrong lol


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#6 | Back to Top03-21-2010 03:20:54 PM

Malacoda
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 07-26-2009
Posts: 180

Re: Fairy Tale Motifs and Archetypes in SKU

Dallbun wrote:

There's about one shot of it, but of course Past Anthy doesn't live in the middle of a town, either.. it looks pretty forest-y. There's a well-beaten path, though, which I guess makes sense if people are coming to beseech the Rose Prince all the time.

emot-redface I actually didn't remember that scene when I was writing my post. But yes, it does look quite forest-y. Definitely going to add that into the forest motif section once I have time.

Prince of Stars wrote:

Seeing as roses seem to be a big thing in SKU, are flowers of any kind a big deal in the Grimm stories?

You'll have better luck finding stupid tailors than flowers in fairy tales. Though there are a few stories that involve couples running away from a witch/sorcerer/cannibal and sometimes that couple will turn into a very thorny rose bush to evade capture. There's also a character named Rose Red but she's a sister to one of the many Snow Whites.

ShinraiTenchi wrote:

I thought that Akio's last name was in fact Himemiya but that he took Kanae's surname when he became engaged to her.

That's the main theory, but I always have a thousand and two pet theories.

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#7 | Back to Top03-22-2010 09:04:00 PM

Cyrias
Tenjou Tilter
From: Exploring the psyche
Registered: 10-04-2009
Posts: 83

Re: Fairy Tale Motifs and Archetypes in SKU

emot-biggrin This is very informative, as I've always had a fascination for fairy tales... I've been thinking about this, but doesn't RGU subvert the traditional gender/roles of most ancient fairy-tales by:
1. Being set in an (high) school - which is debatable as it isn't very clear whether its an actual school or one Mikage/Akio manipulated...
2. The original prince being split into Light/Dark counterparts (Akio/Dios) and the traditional role of a 'Prince' usually reserved by males being upheld by Utena after countless male consorts
3. The Princess (witch emot-rofl) being engaged to the Prince after duelling.
4. The Princess upholding all the power to the sword and being self-reliant, instead of a Damsel in distress being rescued by a Knight and being not what she initially precieves herself to be.

Any more pointers? I prefer the original macabre Grimm Fairy-tales to the edited ones... school-freud For example in the original version of Cinderella, the stepsisters (to try the glass slipper) chop off their feet to fit in the shoe, school-chef their plan was only blown when the Prince noticed a trail of blood leading to the Slipper...

Last edited by Cyrias (03-22-2010 09:08:57 PM)


In lumine tuo, videbimus amor ('In your light, we shall love') Slippy slippery mambo~ everyone at Ohtori is in some kind of spiritual land, created by Goddess Anthy and her brother Akio?!

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#8 | Back to Top03-26-2010 06:16:36 PM

Malacoda
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 07-26-2009
Posts: 180

Re: Fairy Tale Motifs and Archetypes in SKU

Cyrias wrote:

I prefer the original macabre Grimm Fairy-tales to the edited ones

Of course, those are the best ones. Where else are you going to find stories about cannibalistic stepmothers? emot-tongue 

Slightly related to fairy tales, I was listening to the OST and noticed that track 10 on the 3rd OST was titled Bluebeard. That's actually rather fitting because it's also the title of an extremely bloody fairy tale about a girl who marries a man with a (duh) blue beard.

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#9 | Back to Top08-25-2015 03:45:25 PM

Enea
Juri Jeerer
From: Poland
Registered: 04-25-2015
Posts: 45

Re: Fairy Tale Motifs and Archetypes in SKU

Necromancy!
So I have a question, please somebody help me... emot-gonk
I know that one Japanese artist from sixties drew a series of illustrations (probably for "Grimm's Fairy Tales) that looked exactly like little Utena and Akio from beginning sequence (those with black bodies).
I'm searching for it for like an hour now and I'm not even close...
Do you know his name?

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#10 | Back to Top08-26-2015 01:22:00 AM

crystalwren
Dark Whisperer
From: Brisbane
Registered: 04-21-2009
Posts: 1172
Website

Re: Fairy Tale Motifs and Archetypes in SKU

You've got me. I've not had any luck either. I will say, however, that I'm gratified about how often Angela Carter keeps appearing everywhere.

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#11 | Back to Top08-26-2015 09:49:23 PM

zeedikay
Sunlit Gardener (Prelude)
Registered: 02-22-2014
Posts: 170

Re: Fairy Tale Motifs and Archetypes in SKU

Enea wrote:

Necromancy!
So I have a question, please somebody help me... emot-gonk
I know that one Japanese artist from sixties drew a series of illustrations (probably for "Grimm's Fairy Tales) that looked exactly like little Utena and Akio from beginning sequence (those with black bodies).
I'm searching for it for like an hour now and I'm not even close...
Do you know his name?

I think it's Junichi Nakahara, from what I've checked. Even if he's more well known for fashion illustration, a few of his pieces seem to have some inspiration on SKU.
http://40.media.tumblr.com/5d9659be35154c23160c52fe0e2544bc/tumblr_mxt5u4h8KB1qdcdmpo3_250.jpg

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#12 | Back to Top08-27-2015 07:49:32 AM

Enea
Juri Jeerer
From: Poland
Registered: 04-25-2015
Posts: 45

Re: Fairy Tale Motifs and Archetypes in SKU

Yes, that's him! Thank you. etc-love

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