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#1 | Back to Top03-08-2010 02:18:56 AM

minervana
High Tripper
Registered: 10-10-2009
Posts: 246

What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

What little things do you pick up on when rewatching the series? (Or is the proper word "reviewing"? OAD says "No!") What do you notice in your twenties that you missed in your teens? If you could post when/where you first found out about SKU, please do so.

I first found the manga of Revolutionary Girl Utena when I was fourteen. I read the first volume of the manga, watched some of the series but basically forgot about it by the time I turned seventeen. I re-discovered it at twenty-two and became even more interested in it than I had been as a teenager.

I watched the series right through last year, and started re-watching it again. (As a teen I think I watched episodes one through six, and a little bit of an episode in the Akio arc.) Here are some things I notice now that I didn't notice then:

1. Anthy is scary. So is Akio, but psychopaths are at least predictable. I think what's scariest about her is that, much of the time, you can't tell when she's being sincere and when she's being passive aggressive. Sometimes it's obvious ("Excuse us, Kanae-san...") but often it's impossible to tell. (why give a red sweater to Utena, just as Nanami is turning into a cow?)
2. Juri has no friends. More than that, she's removed from the main psychodrama of the plot. Her love interest is out of the picture for almost half the series; after the Ruka episodes, she disappears for the rest of the series.
3. Touga is Richard Cory, save one or two details. We don't really see into his psyche, except very briefly at the series's end, but I would argue that he's in just as much pain as the rest of the Student Council. He's just learned to make that pain unconscious.
4. In "Cowbell of Happiness," the tv presenters (in the first scene) call each other "Steve" and "Roger." It's not the translation; you can hear them say it on the Japanese-language track.
5. Speaking of "Cowbell of Happiness," Nanami's dream is weirdly prescient. In the dream, Touga puts her in a cart while the song describes a sad cow going to the market, presumably to be slaughtered. The dream ends with Touga getting ready to eat a steak. In the Akio arc, Touga basically kills her self-worth to further Akio's goals. The analogy isn't exact, but there's a resemblance. The cat and mouse shadow play, later in the same episode, foreshadows Akio and Touga's relationship. And later in the episode, the music says something like "If only the calf had wings, he would be happy to fly" when Anthy is on screen.
6. None of the characters care about changing the world. Sure, some give lip service to the idea, but they obviously care about self-aggrandizement more. (Hi Touga!) Most of the characters seem blind to the world's existence.
7. The conversation between Mikage's secretary and Mikage seems so...false. I don't know what it is about it, but I don't buy her character. She seems like a fantastical artifact of a lonely man.

This is just off the top of my head. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Last edited by minervana (03-08-2010 02:35:54 AM)

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#2 | Back to Top03-10-2010 06:34:34 PM

Katieryn
Rose Smilee
From: Not-the-City, NY
Registered: 12-08-2009
Posts: 139

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

I found Utena in middle school; it's actually kind of a cute story. I was about 13-14, and my sister was starting to really get into anime. We didn't get along so well--she was four years older and I was an annoying little shit--but I always helped her write/edit her papers. So one day after I finished helping her, she invited me to watch the first few episodes with her (back in ye olde VHS days). And I was instantly smitten.

I've rewatched the series a few times, and am planning another go through of the Black Rose Arc. My thoughts:
-I had NO IDEA how manipulative Anthy is, but I also didn't understand the depth of her--or Akio's--sorrow. I didn't really understand their relationship at all. I still don't fully understand it, but my confusion is more intelligent now emot-wink
-A lot of the characters I dislike (Saionji and Shiori most notably) are a lot deeper than I thought. I mean, at 14 I tended to think people were either good or bad. The show is much richer with an understanding of all the little shadings that go in between.

Tangentially related, I find myself liking the movie less and less as I age. I mean, I still like it and I think it's beautiful, but it's too crazy for my old age (21 emot-tongue)

Last edited by Katieryn (03-10-2010 06:35:12 PM)


"If Utena was a novel, you'd be studying it in college." -- EM site info

We're patient for now, and we're patient for tomorrow, when the past will redeem all the toil extreme and all the sorrow.

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#3 | Back to Top03-12-2010 10:27:21 PM

Riri-kins
World's End
From: Cloud Nine
Registered: 09-22-2008
Posts: 2354

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

I've noticed that Shiori was more insecure than evil.  She had good intentions because when we first see her she wants to apologize for what she did to Juri. She's still not my favorite character, but I do understand her a little better.

(Oh, and Saionji is kind of like a cute younger version of Ebenezer Scrooge.)


Proud Saionji and Mikage fangirl
My Utena fanfiction: http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2000115/Riri-kins

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#4 | Back to Top03-14-2010 03:55:43 AM

sharnii
Pharaoh of Phanstuff
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: 08-10-2008
Posts: 2416
Website

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

Every time I rewatch I notice the language choices more. Or rather the translation choices. I notice the honorifics and the double meanings and camera-focuses on key flashes of scenery/expressions/moments. Also I tend to understand the shadow plays better (which means 10-15% up from 0% emot-rofl).

Kat: -I had NO IDEA how manipulative Anthy is, but I also didn't understand the depth of her--or Akio's--sorrow. I didn't really understand their relationship at all. I still don't fully understand it, but my confusion is more intelligent now emot-wink

The second rewatch of SKU may just be the best cos it's like watching a whole new show in terms of Anthy. emot-biggrin Sure it doesn't have the shock value of the first time round, but everything she says and does takes on a dimension of sinister significance...even if you were one who suspected her all along. Same goes for Akio. God, every single thing he says drips with evil subtext (and sex). Whoever wrote his dialogue is MASTERful.

Last edited by sharnii (03-14-2010 03:58:56 AM)

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#5 | Back to Top03-14-2010 11:14:16 AM

dlaire
A Whole Orange
From: Poland
Registered: 04-08-2007
Posts: 2322

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

When I first watched SKU I was 12 and I knew what sex is but I still couldn't see how full of sexual tension this anime is. Really, all characters have sexual issues.

My new thoughts?
1) Nanami is not that strange. Her clingy behaviour is a trial to get something solid, eternal in the world where everything is changing and doubtful. Genes aren't. Love, from her naive perspective, neither. She tries to build a shieid of feeling safe and special - it is no strange at all, people usually need something to rely on.

2) Juri is not as mature as I used to think. I found her love very strong - now I think she was much more a coward. I think she picked a person who cannot love her back because she was frightened of being vulnerable and eventually she became vulnerable anyway.

3) Finally, I noticed feminist message in this anime! I suppose Jung would be impressed if he could see how stereotyped fairy-tale characters can be changed to convey a completely different message.
This anime point out how unhealthy relationships between a woman and a man can be when people are trapped in the cliché.

4) I wish I had noticed before that SKU is about becoming someone else, someone better. Changes are necessary, casting the flowers is inavoidable to produce fruits. We cannot have both. Kissing our dreams goodbye may be a good thing to.

5) Living in a past isn't a good thing, pretending it never happened neither. I guess the real maturity is having a proper attitude about time.

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#6 | Back to Top03-26-2010 01:40:20 PM

starbrigid
New Student
Registered: 03-26-2010
Posts: 3

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

I'm so glad I found a place to talk about Utena! Utena pretty much defined my middle school years for me, and it was startling to see how different everything was from the perspective of still a teenager, but a college student now. More than things I didn't notice then, it made me realize how much I've changed. Sorry- this will be long, but I really got so much out of it now. I'd love to discuss all this with anyone else excited about it. Mini Juri essay, yay!

1. After two years of lit classes, I understand SOOOOOO much more of the duel songs. It's amazing to recognize things from Plato, Aristotle, Jung, Freud, etc., whereas they were all a jumble to my seventh-grade self. It made me appreciate them so much more. I understood so much more of the intricacies of the plot, too. Everyone should go back and watch, and because they're beautiful, too.

2. Nanami eps no longer amuse me as much. Also, I was disappointed at first when I was still in the Seitoukai arc, because it all seemed so juvenile and stereotypical shoujo for me then. I hated how it felt like the show would build up all this momentum, like after Juri's episode, and then immediately go back to something silly. Once I got past that, I wasn't disappointed.

Another disappointment- I felt like compared to other characters, especially the other student council members, Touga just wasn't developed enough. He just seemed to like manipulation, to want power for its own sake, and unlike almost any duelist, we didn't see where that actual crack happened, that moment he wanted to preserve, with him only in other people's flashbacks. Keiko's black rose ep was the perfect example of that- unlike all the other eps in the saga, even though he had his sword pulled out of his chest, we learned nothing about him. The majority was just other people discussing him, fighting over him, but he himself? There are hints, Akio's influence, the adoption, things like that, but it just seemed like a hole in otherwise excellent characterization. His "love" for Utena would have been more credible if there had been any kind of explanation why.

3. Miki and Kozue= totally Quentin (boy) and Caddy Compson in Sound and the Fury, no? It's truth!!!

4. When I first watched the anime, I loved Saionji the most. Now I realize it was probably because I was so angry, insecure, and confused back then, and I identified with him because of my own aggression emot-smile In terms of personality now, I think I'm most like a cross between Nanami and Utena, with some Wakaba.

My older sister was a Juri fanatic, which I never understood. Now Juri was my favorite character by far. I loved her strength and dignity, and also the dark cool part of her character, how she could snap for no reason. I realized Juri's storyline is the most separate, and the most serious- there's barely any humor in her episodes. My one problem was that I could never understand -why- Juri was so into Shiori, of all people. I wondered so much what Juri had seen in her.

From the stuff about their childhood, I figured Juri was Shiori's protector, and so gave her the princely role to play, validating Juri's own self-esteem and sense of purpose. So Juri built up this image of a gentle princess for Shiori, that kind of image which is left further and further behind by reality as time passes: a princess she could be with but never sexually, the knight-lady code of chivalry replaced by her fear of lesbianism. When Shiori turned into a "witch," it was the collapse of the fairy tale she had built her identity on (a strong, courageous, solid, dignified prince), and she felt alone and "unfulfilled" without it. I think every character has their own sort of "fairy tale" embodied by their paradise-lost young memories they're trying to preserve: Saionji with the fairy tale of him and Touga as two equal kendo friends like in some kind of buddy movie (although Saionji wouldn't want to be the sidekick), Utena with her prince, Akio and Anthy with what they were before the Million Swords, Miki's Edenic "sunlit garden" where he and Kozue lived in beauty without the knowledge of adulthood or sex to constitute a fall, etc.

So if Juri was a "fallen" prince, then she had to construct a new identity, but she couldn't with the chain of the locket around her neck, afraid to move forward- just like Ruka says her fencing has become stagnant, her skill not increasing but staying the same. I still don't get why Shiori, because she is the one character besides Kanae I can't feel for emotionally, but I guess "the heart wants what it wants."

It reminds me of that thing from Proust, if anyone's familiar, where after this epic love story, Swann ends by exclaiming: "To think that I wasted years of my life, that I wanted to die, that I felt my deepest love, for a woman who did not appeal to me, who was not my type!"

Finally, I came to the sobering realization that despite my early teenage yaoi bliss, Touga and Saionji could actually be just friends.

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#7 | Back to Top03-27-2010 12:30:53 PM

Silver
New Student
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 4

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

Well, when I first watched Utena I was in seventh grade.  It never occured to me that Touga and Akio were sleeping together.  I just figured that they liked to talk breathlessly on a big pink bed with their pants unzipped and shirts open. 

Finally, I came to the sobering realization that despite my early teenage yaoi bliss, Touga and Saionji could actually be just friends.

Actually, starbrigid, the opposite happened with me.  XD  When I first watched it I considered Touga and Saionji to just have a very broken friendship.  However, after rewatching the Apocolypse Arc over and over again, I have to say that I believe there was something sexual about that relationship at one time, wether or not that sexuality was ever realized fully or if it was just tension.  I definitely don't see them as lovers, but considering the show we are talking about I do believe there was something there at some point.  I have many reasons for this and am actually planning on writing an analyses on it at some point. 

Let's see...  I never really understood the ending completely, but upon rewatching it things become much more clear.  I thought Chuu-Chuu was just comic relief, but now I believe that his character is actually a mirror for Anthy. 

I am sure there is more but I am too tired to think right now.  emot-frown

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#8 | Back to Top03-27-2010 12:54:35 PM

Itsuke
Pathtracer
Registered: 12-08-2008
Posts: 341

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

Silver wrote:

I thought Chuu-Chuu was just comic relief, but now I believe that his character is actually a mirror for Anthy.

Agree~ and the frog that did not want to see ChuChu leave at the end could be Akio----no matter how many times you kiss it (him), the ugly frog wouldn't transform into a prince~

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#9 | Back to Top03-27-2010 01:57:06 PM

Silver
New Student
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 4

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

ItsukeAgree~ wrote:

and the frog that did not want to see ChuChu leave at the end could be Akio----no matter how many times you kiss it (him), the ugly frog wouldn't transform into a prince~

You know, I never thought of it that way before... but that makes a lot of sense.  It also adds to the twisted fairytale theme in SKU.  I really like that insight!

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#10 | Back to Top03-31-2010 02:41:35 PM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
Website

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

In the final episode when Akio took the Sword of Dios to try and cut open the door and instead broke the sword, why didn't he get Anthy to transform it to its 'light sabre' mode?

After all, Touga knew how to do that, so why didn't he?

http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/5466-3/Series_ep12_168.jpg

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#11 | Back to Top03-31-2010 03:58:27 PM

Pfft
Touga Topper
From: Philadelphia
Registered: 12-09-2008
Posts: 51

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

Tamago wrote:

In the final episode when Akio took the Sword of Dios to try and cut open the door and instead broke the sword, why didn't he get Anthy to transform it to its 'light sabre' mode?

After all, Touga knew how to do that, so why didn't he?

I think the sword of Dios is basically a "conjurer's trick", as Saionji put it in episode 1. Anthy can make it turn light-sabre  and cut anything on the Ohtori campus, because the scenery on campus are basically controlled by her anyway (or generated by the big projector). On the other hand, opening the door to the sleeping Dios is the one thing that Akio and Athy cannot do -- in that sense, it (and the room of torment for Anthy) is  the one real thing in Ohtori. So instead Akio run his (perhaps not very  thought-through) scheme to obtain the "spirit-swords" of noble students -- essentially hoping that those students will be able to do what he cannot. Making the spirit-sword appear as a light sabre will not change it's fundamental capability, it would only be cosmetic.

That's my take on it at least.


~ a Sphinx-phinx in the winter of the desert  ~

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#12 | Back to Top04-02-2010 12:40:20 PM

ZenAmako
New Student
Registered: 04-02-2010
Posts: 3

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

You guys make me feel old, but then so does the 10th anniversary of SKU.  I was introduced to Utena at a friend's house (I remember seeing SKU and Perfect Blue for the first time that weekend) and started buying the Japanese LDs as each volume was released (if I remember right, most of them came out in 1998).  My initial viewings of each episode were in raw Japanese and I struggled to translate the dialogue.  In the end, this was good for me because I picked up a lot of Japanese vocabulary just from watching SKU.  emot-smile  Now as I'm watching the remastered DVDs, I don't need subtitles (except for some of the lyrics in the J.A. Saezer songs).  I also fansubbed the whole series back in the day, before CPM licensed it.  I found scripts for the later arcs online, but I still had to time them.   

As for what I notice upon rewatching... definitely more of the symbolism.  I noticed a lot of it before, but the series is jam packed with it.  It's kind of like Sailor Moon meets David Lynch.

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#13 | Back to Top12-01-2010 07:55:17 AM

tuomastahti
Banned
From: Finland / NSK
Registered: 08-29-2010
Posts: 40
Website

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

I practically never watch a TV series more than one time. However, when I discovered Utena it was completely clear that I want to rewatch it. I had never had that feeling for any anime before.

I noticed the following things while watching all episodes for the second time:

- Kozue's self-confidence is low. She is purposely acting like a cynical tough-guy materialist who has got rid of many human emotions that she sees as weaknesses. Yet, in the inside she is still the same unsure girl who got scared and ran off the stage when she was supposed to play the piano for an audience. She consideres her musical talent almost nonexistent and nowadays she certainly isn't a good pianist, but as a child this might have been just a false supposition she had of herself. At least Miki's memory suggests that she was a good pianist in the old days.

- Tsuwabuki is so self-centered that it affects his memories; he sees the past only from his own point of view. He is trying to make Nanami remember how they met as little kids, even if they never did. Tsuwabuki just saw Nanami and the perception has turned into interaction in his mind.

- The exchange diary in episode 8 has some post scriptum text that isn't read aloud in Japanese nor translated to English.

- Mikage falls right in his own trap of preserved memories when he fights Utena.

- Mikage has no originality in his personality. He is just a vessel for memes, although a charismatic and strong-willed one.

- In duels Utena never won Jury with her skills.

- The number of hands in the scene with Kanae and apple in episode 32. (I found this one really, really disturbing.)

- The shadow plays make more sense than I first thought.

Last edited by tuomastahti (12-01-2010 07:57:38 AM)

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#14 | Back to Top12-01-2010 06:31:30 PM

MsDevin92
Wakaba Wrangler
Registered: 11-01-2010
Posts: 14

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

This is kind of a small one, but I never noticed that the girl who glomps Wakaba in episode 39 is the same girl who was teasing her about Utena in episode 1 before I rewatched.  Actually, does she have a given name or anything?  I'm suddenly very interested in her...I also think she sort of looks like "Prince Onion", and I really have to stop myself from making them cousins or something.
See?

http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/17082-1/Series_ep39_292.jpg <---> http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/7718-1/Series_ep19_015.jpg

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#15 | Back to Top12-01-2010 07:59:52 PM

Emiemipoemi
Troublesome Insect
Registered: 12-10-2006
Posts: 649

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

tuomastahti wrote:

The number of hands in the scene with Kanae and apple in episode 32. (I found this one really, really disturbing.)

I went to the Gallery to see what you were talking about and uhhh I never noticed that either. When I figured out whose hand that must be I got chills.

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#16 | Back to Top12-02-2010 10:17:51 PM

BlackRoseVixen
Snowdrop Lover
From: USA, Arkansas
Registered: 12-24-2007
Posts: 1815
Website

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

While snooping through the gallery, I noticed something about this particular shot that I hadn't seen before...

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f80/BlackRoseVixen05/Series_ep03_023.jpg

Yeaaaah... are those... Anthy's panties? school-sherlock Probably just shadows... But hey, there's a chance, right?


The Saionji Support Squad: Believing in True Friendship Since 2006.

Hat Mafia Member: The Vixen

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#17 | Back to Top12-03-2010 01:14:56 AM

crystalwren
Dark Whisperer
From: Brisbane
Registered: 04-21-2009
Posts: 1172
Website

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

BlackRoseVixen wrote:

Yeaaaah... are those... Anthy's panties? school-sherlock Probably just shadows... But hey, there's a chance, right?


DO WANT!!





...




Think she wears a g-string?

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#18 | Back to Top05-31-2011 06:18:53 PM

innermuse
Anthy Assailer
From: In my own little world
Registered: 11-16-2010
Posts: 77
Website

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

Tamago wrote:

In the final episode when Akio took the Sword of Dios to try and cut open the door and instead broke the sword, why didn't he get Anthy to transform it to its 'light sabre' mode?

After all, Touga knew how to do that, so why didn't he?

http://ohtori.nu/galerie/d/5466-3/Series_ep12_168.jpg

yeah seriously touga is a sith oh and anthy is a cylon.

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#19 | Back to Top05-31-2011 06:46:16 PM

Nebula
Miki Molester
Registered: 06-01-2010
Posts: 39

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

I finally noticed that Saionji was crying in the OP animation.  It's a small thing, but I think it says a lot about his emotional stability compared to other duelists.

Another thing: I always thought it was strange how Utena mistook Touga for her prince when he looked nothing like Dios does in the flashbacks.  But then I remembered something: when Anthy disguised herself as Mamiya, she didn't look anything like the real Mamiya, either.  However, Souji, who's memory had been manipulated, didn't realize the difference until the very end of the Black Rose arc.  Saionji also seems to have confused Anthy for the girl that he and Touga found when they were children (or, alternatively, he didn't mistake her for the literal girl in the coffin, but Anthy instead replaced Utena in his mind.  He couldn't show something eternal to the first girl, but he can do right this time).  Either way, it actually makes sense for Utena's recollection to be off kilter, considering the effects that Akio, Anthy, and perhaps Ohtori itself seem to have on people's memories.

Last edited by Nebula (06-01-2011 04:31:52 PM)

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#20 | Back to Top05-31-2011 07:09:23 PM

Clarice
Well hello, Clarice...
From: New Zealand
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 3102
Website

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

You could argue that the representation of memory here is fairly true to life -- most of us have memories that we would swear were a hundred percent accurate, but you can guarantee it wouldn't fit completely with the memory of someone else who was there. This is why Akio could manipulate memory the way he did, and to sound like an English major, it also adds to the tragic irony of the story. XD etc-saiowank


It takes forty-seven New Zealanders eight months to make just one batch of 42 Below Vodka. ...luckily, that leaves one of us free to be Prime Minister.

Beyond The Silver Leaves

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#21 | Back to Top05-31-2011 07:15:44 PM

Nebula
Miki Molester
Registered: 06-01-2010
Posts: 39

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

Clarice wrote:

You could argue that the representation of memory here is fairly true to life -- most of us have memories that we would swear were a hundred percent accurate, but you can guarantee it wouldn't fit completely with the memory of someone else who was there. This is why Akio could manipulate memory the way he did, and to sound like an English major, it also adds to the tragic irony of the story. XD etc-saiowank

That's a good point, especially since these memories are based in childhood.  Still, I get the impression that there's something deeper going on as well.

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#22 | Back to Top06-01-2011 12:47:41 PM

RhythmFusion
Rose Smilee
Registered: 03-18-2010
Posts: 133

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

During a re-watch of episode two, I noticed that when the Student Council (sans Saionji) is playing cards, Touga plays the last card just as he finishes the conversation. I'm not sure if that really has any significance, it's just something I noticed.

Saionji also seems to have confused Anthy for the girl that he and Touga found when they were children (or, alternatively, he didn't mistake her for the literal girl in the coffin, but Anthy instead replaced Utena in his mind.  He couldn't show something eternal to the first girl, but he can do right <i>this</i> time).

I occasionally find myself wondering how Saionji (or Touga for that matter) would react if they ever found out who the girl in the coffin really was.school-devil

Last edited by RhythmFusion (06-01-2011 12:56:12 PM)


"But screw your courage to the sticking place, and we'll not fail." ~ Lady Macbeth; Macbeth - Act One, Scene 7
"Crying is such hypocrisy. How can happiness cause the same reaction as sadness? Does pleasure share the same edge of the blade of life as pain?" - What His Crimson Eyes Believe in: Ch. 2

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#23 | Back to Top06-01-2011 03:13:09 PM

Leeg
Juri Jeerer
From: Spain
Registered: 02-10-2010
Posts: 49
Website

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

Plot Fail?

Ep 23 at 07:38
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3540/failkp.png

THISSS!
How does he can have that there and not have noticed until the duel ends at the end of the chapter? I' can't believe it.



AND also...

Why are these two naked? ¬¬'

http://ohtori.nu/galerie/v/series/episo … 5.jpg.html

Last edited by Leeg (06-01-2011 03:24:25 PM)

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#24 | Back to Top06-01-2011 04:44:10 PM

Nebula
Miki Molester
Registered: 06-01-2010
Posts: 39

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

I occasionally find myself wondering how Saionji (or Touga for that matter) would react if they ever found out who the girl in the coffin really was.school-devil

I actually think that came up between them in one of the episodes near the end of the series.  If I recall correctly, Touga brought up the possibility of Utena being the girl they saw.  It's been a while since I've seen that episode, though, so I can't say for sure.

How does he can have that there and not have noticed until the duel ends at the end of the chapter? I' can't believe it.

It's possible that Mikage's perception was warped so that when he saw that image, he saw the Mamiya that Anthy presented herself as instead of the real Mamiya.  Note how in the final episode of the arc, the photographs on the desks in the duelist's arena change once he realizes what really happened; it's possible that if Utena and Anthy saw the photographs themselves, they could have seen an image of the real Mamiya from the start.  So, that image you posted could have been an intentional "blink and you'll miss it" bit of foreshadowing on the writers' and animators' part.

A couple other things I noticed:

1) In the curry episode, Touga says that even End of the World didn't plan for this.  Now that we know who End of the World was, could the whole affair have been a bit of rebellion on Anthy's part?  Not just towards Akio, but towards her situation and those involved directly in it (Utena, Nanami and her posse, the Student Council).

2) This is old news at this point, but tt finally hit me how much Touga was manipulating Miki in the Sunlit Garden two-parter.  After all, he and End of the World couldn't have a student council member going against the duels.  It would be too much of an inconvenience.  So, by fooling around with Kozue (in a place where he knew Miki would find them) Touga decided to teach him a lesson: if you don't have the strength to take what you want, then you'll lose everything.

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#25 | Back to Top06-01-2011 07:52:26 PM

Dani
IRG Messiah
From: Virginia, USA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 361

Re: What do you notice on rewatching Utena?

Leeg wrote:

AND also...

Why are these two naked? ¬¬'

http://ohtori.nu/galerie/v/series/episo … 5.jpg.html

I love those quick, panning shots (kudoes to Gio for capturing this sequence, not easy) especially this one... just bro and sis out for a little angry, rough, payback "joyride". But are either of them really enjoying it? Nahhh....school-devil


Nebula wrote:

I occasionally find myself wondering how Saionji (or Touga for that matter) would react if they ever found out who the girl in the coffin really was.school-devil

I actually think that came up between them in one of the episodes near the end of the series.  If I recall correctly, Touga brought up the possibility of Utena being the girl they saw.  It's been a while since I've seen that episode, though, so I can't say for sure.

.

Yes, Touga tells Saionji that he wants to be like Akio because Akio showed Utena "something eternal" that night they found her in the coffin. He's confusing Akio with Dios when he says that. I think that's Ep36.

Last edited by Dani (06-01-2011 07:59:53 PM)

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