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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top02-05-2010 09:34:21 PM

spoon-san
Someday Shiner
Registered: 03-18-2009
Posts: 3423

So how many times do Utena and Akio actually have sex?

I know episode 33, but are there any other times?  I ask this because I always found episode 35, when Akio comes back from riding with Utena (pun NOT intended) with his shirt open in the way the men's shirts tend to open when they are or are about to metaphorically sleep with another character(s) to be suspect.

I realize you cannot say for sure and deep down, I think it's just that one time in ep 33, but I wonder what explanation there could be for the instance I mentioned aside that Akio was hot and sweaty and not from doing the dirty outdoors.

Last edited by spoon-san (02-05-2010 09:34:56 PM)

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#2 | Back to Top02-05-2010 09:38:08 PM

sharnii
Pharaoh of Phanstuff
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: 08-10-2008
Posts: 2416
Website

Re: So how many times do Utena and Akio actually have sex?

Don't forget the scene where they've been out driving and they're back at the tower sitting in the car. We see Akio push Utena down in his car and lean over her in a highly suggestive position.

SEX!

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#3 | Back to Top02-05-2010 09:40:34 PM

spoon-san
Someday Shiner
Registered: 03-18-2009
Posts: 3423

Re: So how many times do Utena and Akio actually have sex?

sharnii wrote:

Don't forget the scene where they've been out driving and they're back at the tower sitting in the car. We see Akio push Utena down in his car and lean over her in a highly suggestive position.

SEX!

Interesting though I always saw ep 33 as being the big moment when Akio takes Utena's virginity and defiles her in that way. I know, metaphorical sex that doesn't require sex but doing a symbolic act which covers a meaning very similar to sex but not being quite there.

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#4 | Back to Top02-06-2010 05:48:58 AM

minervana
High Tripper
Registered: 10-10-2009
Posts: 246

Re: So how many times do Utena and Akio actually have sex?

I always thought Episode 33 was the only time; at least, the only time that we're supposed to see. However, read this passage from Episode 36:

Akio:  So, what do you think? Once you get used to it, it feels pretty good, doesn't it?
Utena:  Yes...my heart was pounding. A lot.
Akio:  I see. I'm glad.
Utena:  It's been a really long time since I've spent time out in nature like this. I feel like I'm dreaming or something. It was really fun.

Yeah, they're talking about horseback riding, but I think the double entendre is obvious and intended. Maybe the horseback riding scenes are like the post-code Hollywood movies, where a man lighting a woman's cigarette signaled that they'd had sex, even if they were in a bar or on a street or wherever.

I think it's, if not stated, at least heavily implied that they continued to have sex after Episode 33. Maybe he even fucked her while she was having that whole flashback to meeting Ends of the World. But it's left open to the viewer to decide.

Of course, Akio could gain more by taking advantage of her and then leading her on without any more sex. Remember that his whole m.o. is pretending to forge a prince's sword out of Utena's soul, just to keep Anthy from leaving him. Does sleeping with Utena more than once add or subtract from this goal? You tell me.

Asking how many times anybody and Akio had sex is kind of a dicey proposition. I mean, we only see him with Mrs. Ohtori once, but I highly doubt that was the only time. And him and Touga...who knows?

Last edited by minervana (02-06-2010 05:49:17 AM)

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#5 | Back to Top02-06-2010 06:27:57 AM

sharnii
Pharaoh of Phanstuff
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: 08-10-2008
Posts: 2416
Website

Re: So how many times do Utena and Akio actually have sex?

minervana: I think it's, if not stated, at least heavily implied that they continued to have sex after Episode 33.

I would agree with that delicious interpretation. school-devil

And just to clarify the car scene I'm talking about takes place right before Utena and Anthy have their "kinda making up" discussion in the tower standing in front of the window at night. Um you know the one where Utena's wearing the sweater. (Sorry I'm too lazy at the mome to look it up).

So what I mean is that car scene happens some time after the sex in the hotel after the carnival, which was the definitive taking of the virginity!
*sotto voice: have you delivered the flowers?*

My view is sex is implied 3 times: carnival sex, after kissing by horse sex, and after riding in car sex
I'm very happy to hear other theories!

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#6 | Back to Top02-06-2010 11:17:09 AM

Riri-kins
World's End
From: Cloud Nine
Registered: 09-22-2008
Posts: 2346

Re: So how many times do Utena and Akio actually have sex?

I think that we only see them do it twice in the series. The first is in episode thirty-three and the second is in episode thirty-seven when she's wearing the sweater. While I didn't miss the horseback riding innuendo I always assumed the following kiss was just Akio playing prince.


Proud Saionji and Mikage fangirl
My Utena fanfiction: http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2000115/Riri-kins

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#7 | Back to Top02-06-2010 11:31:38 AM

spoon-san
Someday Shiner
Registered: 03-18-2009
Posts: 3423

Re: So how many times do Utena and Akio actually have sex?

Ah, ep 37.  I had totally forgetten about that wrong, and sorry, sharnii.   The first thing I thought of was the metaphorical foot sex...so...In any case, looks like I need to closely examine that scene.

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#8 | Back to Top02-07-2010 07:44:41 PM

Aya
Unfulfilled Juror
From: In a cold place
Registered: 12-18-2009
Posts: 228

Re: So how many times do Utena and Akio actually have sex?

Every time I see them together, I assume it's a secret sex scene.
Though, I assume Akio existing is a secret sex scene...


Yes, I did it because I was bored. So?

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#9 | Back to Top02-07-2010 08:27:05 PM

spoon-san
Someday Shiner
Registered: 03-18-2009
Posts: 3423

Re: So how many times do Utena and Akio actually have sex?

Aya wrote:

Every time I see them together, I assume it's a secret sex scene.
Though, I assume Akio existing is a secret sex scene...

This is something I have not yet thought of before. 

I'm going to have to re-think the series as I continue re-watching it.

You have a sharp head on your shoulders, young padawan...yes, indeed.

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#10 | Back to Top02-08-2010 12:32:28 AM

chrisb
Eternal Eschatologist
From: Tx,USA
Registered: 01-18-2010
Posts: 956

Re: So how many times do Utena and Akio actually have sex?

I always thought Episode 33 was the only time; at least, the only time that we're supposed to see. However, read this passage from Episode 36:

    Akio:  So, what do you think? Once you get used to it, it feels pretty good, doesn't it?
    Utena:  Yes...my heart was pounding. A lot.
    Akio:  I see. I'm glad.
    Utena:  It's been a really long time since I've spent time out in nature like this. I feel like I'm dreaming or something. It was really fun.

Yeah, they're talking about horseback riding, but I think the double entendre is obvious and intended. Maybe the horseback riding scenes are like the post-code Hollywood movies, where a man lighting a woman's cigarette signaled that they'd had sex, even if they were in a bar or on a street or wherever.

I recall that also, the English actors kinda lost the subtlety so it was a little more obvious what they were discussing. When I saw that scene at first in Japanese, I had no idea that it could have meant something else.

I always thought their sexual relationship went on for a lot longer, it's why I thought Utena was more pissed than sad when she found out about Akio and Anthy.


http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a358/clow987/Christmas2011SSSigGift.png

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#11 | Back to Top02-11-2010 07:16:44 PM

hollow_rose
Egghead
From: Ohio
Registered: 10-26-2008
Posts: 1074

Re: So how many times do Utena and Akio actually have sex?

At least two or three times I would say. There's the horse riding, there's the car scene, and of course, the hotel. But maybe more, the idea of time gets kind of wonky by that point in the anime so there could have been more time passing in there than it seemed.


20 threads dead so far.

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#12 | Back to Top02-14-2010 09:16:38 AM

KissFromARose
Thorn of Death
From: Austin, Tx
Registered: 09-29-2008
Posts: 506

Re: So how many times do Utena and Akio actually have sex?

minervana wrote:

I always thought Episode 33 was the only time; at least, the only time that we're supposed to see. However, read this passage from Episode 36:

Akio:  So, what do you think? Once you get used to it, it feels pretty good, doesn't it?
Utena:  Yes...my heart was pounding. A lot.
Akio:  I see. I'm glad.
Utena:  It's been a really long time since I've spent time out in nature like this. I feel like I'm dreaming or something. It was really fun.

Yeah, they're talking about horseback riding

I think you had me laughing for a good 20 minutes after reading your first line. It was as if you said "yeah right... 'horseback riding'... righttt..." But i understand what you're getting at now.

I dont know;  although the implications are obvious and the situations are just too big to miss; i hate to say it but i'm sure the relationship expanded past just the one time. I always thought of utena as the innocent by-stander! emot-tongue

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#13 | Back to Top02-15-2010 09:08:52 AM

Alexa
Anthy Assailer
Registered: 12-13-2006
Posts: 74

Re: So how many times do Utena and Akio actually have sex?

I think Akio probably planned for them to have an ongoing sexual relationship, given his ultimate goal.  My interpretation is that he intended her to give up her "princely" ideals (and thus her goal of becoming a prince) by having her voluntarily do something she thought was wrong: a sexual relationship with a man who was already engaged to someone else.  If the scene in episode 33 had been a one-time encounter, it would have been a lot easier for Utena to write it off as a mistake that she never intended to happen.

So yeah.  I definitely think they had sex more than once.  That makes it a lot more interesting. emot-biggrin

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#14 | Back to Top02-15-2010 09:51:30 AM

spoon-san
Someday Shiner
Registered: 03-18-2009
Posts: 3423

Re: So how many times do Utena and Akio actually have sex?

Alexa wrote:

I think Akio probably planned for them to have an ongoing sexual relationship, given his ultimate goal.  My interpretation is that he intended her to give up her "princely" ideals (and thus her goal of becoming a prince) by having her voluntarily do something she thought was wrong: a sexual relationship with a man who was already engaged to someone else.  If the scene in episode 33 had been a one-time encounter, it would have been a lot easier for Utena to write it off as a mistake that she never intended to happen.

So yeah.  I definitely think they had sex more than once.  That makes it a lot more interesting. emot-biggrin

Your explanation just made it click.  I agree with the point on it adding to Utena's guilt, but even more so, seeing Akio as the puppeteer through this whole thing, it only adds to the power Akio does have...which makes Utena's feat of tarnishing his control over everything that much more epic.  Utena's like freaking Hercules.  emot-tongue

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#15 | Back to Top02-18-2010 04:21:58 PM

Carrie Asagiri
Saionji Slapper
From: Argentina
Registered: 02-14-2010
Posts: 27
Website

Re: So how many times do Utena and Akio actually have sex?

Alexa wrote:

I think Akio probably planned for them to have an ongoing sexual relationship, given his ultimate goal.  My interpretation is that he intended her to give up her "princely" ideals (and thus her goal of becoming a prince) by having her voluntarily do something she thought was wrong: a sexual relationship with a man who was already engaged to someone else.  If the scene in episode 33 had been a one-time encounter, it would have been a lot easier for Utena to write it off as a mistake that she never intended to happen.

So yeah.  I definitely think they had sex more than once.  That makes it a lot more interesting. emot-biggrin

I think in the same way. And I thought too that Akio planned it to made her give up to be a prince, but not only because she was doing something wrong but she was acting like a woman and not like a boy. We can see that Utena became more femenine when she is with Akio, in the ep 33 she is dressed like a girl in a very sexy way. She was flirting with him, unconsciously of course. We can say she was seducing him or maybe she only thought it, but was manipulated to believe it. With Akio, she acted like a woman and was forgetting her prince role. She even doesn't care to slept with Akio betraying her prince. Obviously, she felt guilty but that guilt didn't stop her to keep seeing Akio and sleep with him.

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#16 | Back to Top02-18-2010 05:37:23 PM

spoon-san
Someday Shiner
Registered: 03-18-2009
Posts: 3423

Re: So how many times do Utena and Akio actually have sex?

Carrie Asagiri wrote:

Alexa wrote:

I think Akio probably planned for them to have an ongoing sexual relationship, given his ultimate goal.  My interpretation is that he intended her to give up her "princely" ideals (and thus her goal of becoming a prince) by having her voluntarily do something she thought was wrong: a sexual relationship with a man who was already engaged to someone else.  If the scene in episode 33 had been a one-time encounter, it would have been a lot easier for Utena to write it off as a mistake that she never intended to happen.

So yeah.  I definitely think they had sex more than once.  That makes it a lot more interesting. emot-biggrin

I think in the same way. And I thought too that Akio planned it to made her give up to be a prince, but not only because she was doing something wrong but she was acting like a woman and not like a boy. We can see that Utena became more femenine when she is with Akio, in the ep 33 she is dressed like a girl in a very sexy way. She was flirting with him, unconsciously of course. We can say she was seducing him or maybe she only thought it, but was manipulated to believe it. With Akio, she acted like a woman and was forgetting her prince role. She even doesn't care to slept with Akio betraying her prince. Obviously, she felt guilty but that guilt didn't stop her to keep seeing Akio and sleep with him.

Yes.  Akio doesn't give a shit about morals, but Utena does...and guilt tripping her weakens her self-confidence to act as a prince.  The goal is to get the Sword of Dios and Akio uses various methods.  Encouraging her to abandon her ideals and to be a princess is just one of them and he'll use sex, whatever to get his goal.

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#17 | Back to Top12-21-2010 09:06:46 PM

Gainel
Rose Bride
Registered: 07-08-2010
Posts: 116

Re: So how many times do Utena and Akio actually have sex?

Aggh Akio!! I will never forgive you for dirtying my pure white Utena!! AGHHHH!! emot-mad

You'd think Utena would have made a bigger deal out of it, though... AGHH!! He changed her personality toooo! emot-aaa

Akio, I will hate and/or be attracted to you as long as I live. But Touga is B E T T E R. [Mwehe. That's why I'm such an avid Utena/Touga shipper.] emot-dance


Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but wisdom is knowing not to put it on a fruit salad.

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#18 | Back to Top12-30-2010 12:34:19 PM

nekozoya
Wakaba Wrangler
From: California! May there be sun!
Registered: 11-30-2010
Posts: 16

Re: So how many times do Utena and Akio actually have sex?

The only time they really show that they have sex is in ep. 33. I'm pretty sure there was more sex going on than intended for us poor innocent (not emot-tongue ) vieweres too see, but probably not as much as Akio would have wanted. school-devil


etc-saiowank Need I say more?

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