You are not logged in.

Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top11-18-2009 02:15:08 PM

winksniper
Qualified Duellist
From: Under the Cherry Moon
Registered: 09-11-2009
Posts: 764

Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

I was watching a Youtube video of a Spanish translation of Tommy Heavenly6's song Unlimited sky, and right at the part where she says, "Kimagure na shinigami ga tachidomatta" (a capricious death god stood still), the Spanish translation of the same sentence was "El caprichoso Dios de la Muerte se detuvo y se quedo quieto."  & I know the song has next to nothing to do with Utena, but do you think that they got the name from Spanish?

It may be over-analyzing it to think of it that way, but in my head it makes sense because Dios never really existed as a separate person in the first place, and then somehow he died... so being a symbol representing "Death", well, it kinda fits. 

I dunno, I feel kinda stupid posting this because I bet everyone's either, "Duh" or "Of course not, you idiot."

Offline

 

#2 | Back to Top11-18-2009 02:16:34 PM

allegoriest
Delicious Duellist
From: Cloudcuckooland
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2506
Website

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

I'm pretty sure Dios just means 'god' in spanish in general.


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a94/leeness/Ruka--Juri-banner-1.png

Only a lemming must be concerned with the ends of the world.

Offline

 

#3 | Back to Top11-18-2009 02:20:35 PM

winksniper
Qualified Duellist
From: Under the Cherry Moon
Registered: 09-11-2009
Posts: 764

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

Oooh okay.  Durrr. emot-redface

Offline

 

#4 | Back to Top11-18-2009 02:34:11 PM

allegoriest
Delicious Duellist
From: Cloudcuckooland
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2506
Website

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

Yeah, I think its from like, Deus and all. And makes words like Diety and such.


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a94/leeness/Ruka--Juri-banner-1.png

Only a lemming must be concerned with the ends of the world.

Offline

 

#5 | Back to Top11-18-2009 05:25:04 PM

Clarice
Well hello, Clarice...
From: New Zealand
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 3102
Website

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

I don't speak Spanish, but as far as I know "dios" is just "god," and like English can mean the Christian, singular "God" or can be used in the context of a god within a group, like Zeus or something. Also bear in mind the Japanese word "kami" (which is written as "gami" in "shinigami") doesn't actually translate very well into English. "God" is a placeholder of a sort, as the Shinto kami are more animistic than what we'd typically see the idea as. Like, Pagan, I suppose. Which is possibly why they used the name "Dios" for the character, as there is more an idea of purity behind that, maybe? The Japanese idea of kami is more neutral; whereas Christian thought has God in his Heaven and Lucifer in the Underworld, the kami can be either. They're influenced by the forces around them, as well as within them. If that makes any sense. I think I've just realised I need to go re-read some of my books on Shinto again. school-devil


It takes forty-seven New Zealanders eight months to make just one batch of 42 Below Vodka. ...luckily, that leaves one of us free to be Prime Minister.

Beyond The Silver Leaves

Offline

 

#6 | Back to Top11-18-2009 05:50:21 PM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
Website

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

Dios is a shinigami? Does that mean that Akio's real reason behind the duels is that he is attempting to transform the Sword of Dios into the ultimate Zanpakutou?

Offline

 

#7 | Back to Top11-18-2009 05:53:40 PM

Lightice
Azure Paleontologist
From: Finland
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 1255

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

winksniper wrote:

I was watching a Youtube video of a Spanish translation of Tommy Heavenly6's song Unlimited sky, and right at the part where she says, "Kimagure na shinigami ga tachidomatta" (a capricious death god stood still),

While "shinigami" literally means Death God, in practice you just read it as Grim Reaper, or personified Death, usually.


Hei! Aa-Shanta 'Nygh!

Offline

 

#8 | Back to Top11-18-2009 06:05:40 PM

dundundun
Saionji Slapper
From: Mundelow
Registered: 07-18-2009
Posts: 27

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

In the flashback where Utena first meets Dios, doesn't she ask him if he's a shinigami?

Offline

 

#9 | Back to Top11-18-2009 06:37:26 PM

hollow_rose
Egghead
From: Ohio
Registered: 10-26-2008
Posts: 1074

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

dundundun wrote:

In the flashback where Utena first meets Dios, doesn't she ask him if he's a shinigami?

....I can't remember exactly what she says in the sub. But I'm going to go rewatch that scene to find out! Interesting.


20 threads dead so far.

Offline

 

#10 | Back to Top11-18-2009 11:26:12 PM

Hiraku
Easter Elf #40
From: Singapore
Registered: 02-21-2007
Posts: 6340
Website

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

Indeed, she did. She yearned for death after all. However, Akio wouldn't want that to happen now would he? Otherwise, it'd foil his plan. school-devil Dios himself already mentioned that he can't bring death :-/ After all, he and Anthy were stuck in "eternity"

Offline

 

#11 | Back to Top11-20-2009 01:21:16 PM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 588

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

In the English dub he said, "I do not serve death." Is that a mis-translation?

One could argue that Anthy was destined to die but Dios saved her and turned her into a witch. Dios in turn was destined to die but Anthy saved him and turned him into Akio.

Offline

 

#12 | Back to Top11-20-2009 09:31:37 PM

BioKraze
Faceless Master
From: Yuma, Arizona (USA)
Registered: 11-26-2006
Posts: 8280

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

Lightice wrote:

While "shinigami" literally means Death God, in practice you just read it as Grim Reaper, or personified Death, usually.

Whenever I see the word "shinigami" I automatically think Thanatos. And then I almost immediately think "What's Zane got to do with this?"

Points for anybody who knows what I mean by that.


Roses have thorns to stop those who would dare deny their right to live.
Razara's Postulate: For every lover of lesbians out there, there is an equal and opposite attraction to Dippin' Dots.

Offline

 

#13 | Back to Top11-21-2009 01:36:16 PM

Lightice
Azure Paleontologist
From: Finland
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 1255

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

brian wrote:

In the English dub he said, "I do not serve death." Is that a mis-translation?

It was more like "I do not bring death" in the original. Not a big difference, though.

One could argue that Anthy was destined to die but Dios saved her and turned her into a witch. Dios in turn was destined to die but Anthy saved him and turned him into Akio.

I'm not sure where you get the former - if anything, the story would seem to indicate that Anthy made herself a witch after understanding that she could never get Dios for herself - and then made her Akio, though not exactly deliberately, so that she could have him, even if it means he has to cease to be the Prince.


Hei! Aa-Shanta 'Nygh!

Offline

 

#14 | Back to Top11-21-2009 07:04:22 PM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 588

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

Lightice wrote:

I'm not sure where you get the former

From the manga; of course even then it transpires that she is not telling all she knows.

Last edited by brian (11-21-2009 07:04:48 PM)

Offline

 

#15 | Back to Top11-22-2009 01:07:09 PM

Lightice
Azure Paleontologist
From: Finland
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 1255

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

brian wrote:

Lightice wrote:

I'm not sure where you get the former

From the manga; of course even then it transpires that she is not telling all she knows.

I would prefer to keep the manga, series and movie continuities distinctly separate. They're not the same universe, so what is canon in one isn't necessarily so in the other. I was assuming that we spoke of the series by default.


Hei! Aa-Shanta 'Nygh!

Offline

 

#16 | Back to Top11-23-2009 12:00:17 PM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 588

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

Yes, it's true that the different versions contradict each other but they also sometimes explain each other. For me it makes sense to research other versions of Utena, and beyond them into sources like Herman Hesse and so on. Since I don't want this to turn into a flame this is my last posting in this thread.

Offline

 

#17 | Back to Top11-23-2009 01:49:57 PM

Ashnod
La poétesse revolutionnaire
From: Missouri, United States
Registered: 03-01-2007
Posts: 1243
Website

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

BioKraze wrote:

Lightice wrote:

While "shinigami" literally means Death God, in practice you just read it as Grim Reaper, or personified Death, usually.

Whenever I see the word "shinigami" I automatically think Thanatos. And then I almost immediately think "What's Zane got to do with this?"

Points for anybody who knows what I mean by that.

On A Pale. Horse ftw!!


Flowers without names blooming in the field can only sway in the wind. But I was born with a destiny of roses, born to live in passion and glory.

http://www.dark-kingdom.org/Gallery/osrgbanner.PNG
Hat Mafia Member: Little Dark Poet

Offline

 

#18 | Back to Top11-23-2009 04:44:22 PM

Aine Silveria
Pumpkin Bride
From: Allegan, MI
Registered: 11-03-2006
Posts: 2098

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

Ashnod wrote:

BioKraze wrote:

Lightice wrote:

While "shinigami" literally means Death God, in practice you just read it as Grim Reaper, or personified Death, usually.

Whenever I see the word "shinigami" I automatically think Thanatos. And then I almost immediately think "What's Zane got to do with this?"

Points for anybody who knows what I mean by that.

On A Pale. Horse ftw!!

Were you hoping I'd get to that one? emot-tongue


http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m526/aines_pixels/mikageirgsig02-2012.png

Offline

 

#19 | Back to Top11-24-2009 01:37:08 AM

Rose_Of_Darkness
New Student
From: Padova, Italy
Registered: 11-23-2009
Posts: 5
Website

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

In the manga Dios and Akio are two parts of "God" wicht one day are been separated because Dios was too much good at the humans. I the anime this concept is's non explain

Offline

 

#20 | Back to Top10-19-2012 10:15:23 PM

Juli_Revolutionary_Bat
Wakaba Wrangler
Registered: 10-19-2012
Posts: 13

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

winksniper wrote:

I was watching a Youtube video of a Spanish translation of Tommy Heavenly6's song Unlimited sky, and right at the part where she says, "Kimagure na shinigami ga tachidomatta" (a capricious death god stood still), the Spanish translation of the same sentence was "El caprichoso Dios de la Muerte se detuvo y se quedo quieto."  & I know the song has next to nothing to do with Utena, but do you think that they got the name from Spanish?

It may be over-analyzing it to think of it that way, but in my head it makes sense because Dios never really existed as a separate person in the first place, and then somehow he died... so being a symbol representing "Death", well, it kinda fits. 

I dunno, I feel kinda stupid posting this because I bet everyone's either, "Duh" or "Of course not, you idiot."

Hi! my first lenguage is the spanish, and i can tell you that "god" and "dios" are the same thing :3
I´m prety sure that spanish was important in the creation of the script (i can´t remember right now but there are many references to it in the anime and manga) emot-dance


Utena: And someday, together we'll-
Anthy: Someday... together?

Someday together we'll shine.

Offline

 

#21 | Back to Top07-21-2013 03:46:20 PM

whyknot
New Student
Registered: 07-21-2013
Posts: 8

Re: Wait... is Dios being compared to a Death God?

Dios CAN represent death. and it makes a whole lot of sense too.

Here's a good explanation of it: http://akio.ohtori.nu/05_identity_02.htm#thanatos

"One way to look at Akio and Dios are in the Freudian terms of Eros and Thanatos—the life and death drives. Eros came first in Freud’s studies: it’s the sex instinct, and all the baggage that comes from sex. The desire for life, preservation, survival, and sensuality. The creation drive, realized mostly in reproduction. Later, Freud coupled this with Thanatos—the death drive. The negation urge, the need to put out your own existence.

...

Dios is all Thanatos. He has no life drive of his own, no urge to preserve himself, and one can safely assume (due at least to his age), no real need for sex. Instead, he behaves with self-destructive abandon. You could even go so far as to say he’s suicidal, for the degree to which he pushes himself. On the other hand, Akio is all Eros. Aside from the obvious presence of an overwhelming sex drive, Akio embodies the life instinct because unlike Dios, he’s extremely self-preserving. There’s no room in Akio’s mind for accepting any change in him—he goes to great effort to preserve both who he is and the circumstances around him that permit him to stay that way. He is so hung up on his own survival that he refuses the usual form the life instinct takes—reproduction. He doesn’t accept the Eros/Thanatos cycle where he lives on in those that follow, while he himself must die. After all, you need some degree of the death drive to accept that fate. "

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB 1.2.23
© Copyright 2002–2008 PunBB
Forum styled and maintained by Giovanna and Yasha
Return to Empty Movement