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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top11-03-2009 03:30:07 PM

minervana
High Tripper
Registered: 10-10-2009
Posts: 246

Do Anthy and Akio age? (image intensive)

Anthy:

http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/14222-1/Series_ep34_077.jpg

Akio:

http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/14260-1/Series_ep34_096.jpg

Compare with:

http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/14422-1/Series_ep34_177.jpg

http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/14386-1/Series_ep34_159.jpg

Here's End-of-the-World with young Utena:

http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/14380-1/Series_ep34_156.jpg

Anthy with Dios:

http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/14412-1/Series_ep34_172.jpg

And here's Anthy, Akio and Utena, for the creepiest yearbook picture ever:

http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/14168-1/Series_ep34_050.jpg

You can't see this in the images, but you might remember that in this episode, the Dios/End of the World has a higher and younger voice. I think it's a different voice actor.

Are Dios and Anthy aging in tandem with Utena? I know there's a strong argument that Akio/Dios and Anthy are timeless archetypes, but they do look younger in the flashback. Is this a trick of memory, just a convention of the story, or do they somehow adapt to whatever surroundings they're in? I guess Akio controls Ohtori because he's engaged to Kanae-san and has something going on with Mrs. Ohtori. Hence the mirage of them getting older; Anthy would have to be at least in junior high for 17-year-old-boys to be around her.

Or, you could say that as they fall further from grace into corruption, they become more adult.

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#2 | Back to Top11-03-2009 04:35:32 PM

Pfft
Touga Topper
From: Philadelphia
Registered: 12-09-2008
Posts: 51

Re: Do Anthy and Akio age? (image intensive)

minervana wrote:

Or, you could say that as they fall further from grace into corruption, they become more adult.

I think this idea makes a lot of sense. Their change in appearance from the flashback to present time mirrors a lot of the other characters, who also were young and idealistic and then became older and cynical.

I also always though the current timeless nature of Anthy and Akio is because they are afraid of/have given up on change. Therefore they stay in the artificial Ohtori bubble and reboot the surroundings while remaining identical themselves. But somehow I imagine that if Anthy actually does find Utena outside the academy, they will grow old together...


~ a Sphinx-phinx in the winter of the desert  ~

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#3 | Back to Top11-03-2009 05:23:37 PM

Dallbun
Tour Guide to Crawling Chaos
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 689

Re: Do Anthy and Akio age? (image intensive)

I think you left out some other essential notes:

1.) End of the World isn't consistently young in the flashback in Episode 34. He ages visibly (and, if I recall, his voice changes) during his conversation with Utena. Here he is just after the kiss.

http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/14482-1/Series_ep34_207.jpg

2.) Akio is explicitly presented as not having aged between Nemuro's time and the series's "present."

3.) Flashback End of the World doesn't relate the Tale of the Rose as if it happened recently; instead, he emphasizes the eternal nature of the Rose Bride's suffering. Likewise, in the flashback, the time signals are all mixed up, with a fax machine and men in suits alongside very medieval imagery of huts, witches, and swords.

4.) Maybe it's just the expression or the lighting, but Anthy seems to be drawn as significantly older a couple times, when her power and presence are emphasized. For instance, here she is with her hair down lying next to Utena, looking relatively young, and then standing next to Akio:

http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/14508-1/Series_ep34_220.jpg
http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/15412-1/Series_ep36_223.jpg

For these reasons (mostly one and two), I've always taken their ages in flashbacks to be subjective, a visual device used in the story that's not intended to mirror the absolute passage of time. I expect they appear to be the ages they are in the series because they intend to.

That said, it does seem like we're definitely supposed to equate the Tale of the Rose era with their "youth," and the aging of Dios/Akio in particular seems to be a significant metaphor. If Akio has chosen the role and appearance of an "adult," that's even more significant in terms to his character than if it was an involuntary transition.

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#4 | Back to Top11-03-2009 10:46:29 PM

Itsuke
Pathtracer
Registered: 12-08-2008
Posts: 341

Re: Do Anthy and Akio age? (image intensive)

I think how Anthy and Akio experience time is completely unlike how we mortals experience it. Remember Anthy's flashback in episode 25?
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/896/vlcsnap2009110400h24m48.jpg

This is clearly before the pair of them encounter the mob outside the barn. Here Dios looks so much older than Anthy. She herself looks like a child no older than a first grader. Yet, the siblings look the same age during the barn sence. How do you explain that? emot-gonk To ask do they age is to ask what kind of being are they. The straightforward answers of prince/prick (I mean a sex demon) and princess/witch just don't seem to answer the question adequately. So what the hell are they exactly? Fallen deities? Semi-gods? Mythical creatures? etc... Given Anthy's power, I don't think she'd lose any of it even after she left Akio. I also have the feeling that once Utena is reunited with her, the two will never age after that.

Actually I am quite interested to know who are their parents (if they had any). Must be some good genes there to have produced two splendid specimen. I wonder could Anthy's mom be even hotter than her daughter? emot-biggrin I apologize if I sound like a pervert here. emot-tongue

Last edited by Itsuke (11-03-2009 10:53:41 PM)

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#5 | Back to Top11-04-2009 04:35:46 PM

Lightice
Azure Paleontologist
From: Finland
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 1255

Re: Do Anthy and Akio age? (image intensive)

To me it's always been clear that these two are of whatever age that suits them the best for any given situation. Utena first sees Dios as a child, since as a child herself, she empathises with this form the best, but as she begins to look up to him as their conversation progresses, he becomes older and easier to idolize. Anthy is shown capable of being anything from unassuming geek to otherworldly seductress to a lost child, as her moods and the situation she tries to adapt to take her.

My personal theory of the siblings is that they are archetypical beings, a bit like Neil Gaiman's Endless, but gotten corrupted and muddled, leaving the original ideas that they represent hazy and unclear. They still have some remnant of the Yin-Yang distinction that I think would represent their two sides at their purest: Dios as pro-active, positive, masculine, and Anthy as passive, negative, feminine. Ironically, in the end Anthy may have won in the end, becoming an active mistress of her own fate, while Akio ends up doomed in obscurity, playing the same pattern forever, never managing to break loose. There was a scene in one episode where Akio lays over Anthy, and his body is filled with stars, while she's solid and (at least apparently) passively receptive. I've mentioned this before, but it reminds me of the old sky god-earth goddess dualities. Still, I think that Yin and Yang are the best representatives of what the two are supposed to be, as opposed to the Western Pagan or Christian dualities.


Hei! Aa-Shanta 'Nygh!

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#6 | Back to Top11-04-2009 11:00:11 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8730
Website

Re: Do Anthy and Akio age? (image intensive)

I agree with Lightice, that it's usually how they want to appear that dictates their age. But there are a few exceptions.

http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/10218-2/Series_ep25_087.jpg

I get the impression that this, like a few other shots in the show (Saionji's glowy sparkles) is someone's mental visualization--Anthy, when she first fell, with Dios looking much older than her. She says they'll rely on each other, a change from his prince role obviously, but he's still the larger, protective figure. Maybe her recollection shows a reliance on gender roles despite raging against them?

http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/16582-1/Series_ep39_042.jpg

I've always thought this set of shots made Akio's outfit excessively baggy, like he's been deflated or just got smaller, younger. I dunno if that's even deliberate on the part of the animators but it does seem like it'd be appropriate when suddenly he's being all PITY ME emot-frown Kinda similar to the shot of him looking all BOOOOHOOO during the shadow girl play--he looks much younger there.

It seems particularly standout when most of the shots of Anthy in her rose bride dress from those episodes do seem like she's older. I definitely agree she looks older when she's been fucking. So does Akio for that matter.


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
Chiefest of Calamities

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#7 | Back to Top11-05-2009 04:14:52 PM

hollow_rose
Egghead
From: Ohio
Registered: 10-26-2008
Posts: 1074

Re: Do Anthy and Akio age? (image intensive)

Anthy is often catagorized as a witch. Since witches mythologically are associated with illusions, I always assumed that Anthy had magical illusion powers to appear whatever age she needed to be, depending on the situation.

Akio is less easy to describe this way, except he has the powers of the observatory, which may give him some illusionary powers as well.

Age really is an illusion to them, they have a very immortal quality. I imagine they appear as they need to.


20 threads dead so far.

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#8 | Back to Top11-06-2009 09:51:09 AM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8730
Website

Re: Do Anthy and Akio age? (image intensive)

hollow_rose wrote:

I imagine they appear as they need to.

Which raises an interesting side note to their deciding their age. They also (presumably) decide how they look--dark skinned and very different from everyone else. Would it not benefit them to blend absolutely? Or do people really not notice the difference? (Is it ever even really addressed that they appear a totally different race?) It seems almost like stubborn pride that they keep their coloring.

Or they may be only able to manipulate their age...and gender. Mamiya looks when it's Anthy simply like a male version of her. Akio never changes how he looks, just his age. Gender seems a strange thing to let them (or just Anthy) change if she can't change how she looks.

Of course we did need the tipoff that Mamiya looking different gave us. Or did we? Would any of us have been any more or less confused if Anthy had looked exactly like Mamiya? emot-confused


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
Chiefest of Calamities

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#9 | Back to Top11-10-2009 05:52:19 PM

junior
New Student
Registered: 11-18-2006
Posts: 9
Website

Re: Do Anthy and Akio age? (image intensive)

Giovanna wrote:

hollow_rose wrote:

I imagine they appear as they need to.

Which raises an interesting side note to their deciding their age. They also (presumably) decide how they look--dark skinned and very different from everyone else. Would it not benefit them to blend absolutely? Or do people really not notice the difference? (Is it ever even really addressed that they appear a totally different race?) It seems almost like stubborn pride that they keep their coloring

This is an anime thing in general, though.  Sailor moon isn't blond, she's just drawn that way.  Japanese characters don't have blue hair or pink hair or whatever, they are just drawn as if they do.  General, the authors avoid referencing hair color, unless there's a foreign character who can actually have blond or red hair.

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