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HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top12-01-2006 10:23:27 AM

Maarika
Someday Shiner
From: Estonia
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 2510
Website

Utena mangas

At last, the manga thread!

I've finally read all the mangas and I have to say that the series is still the best of all Utena versions. But I liked the mangas nevertheless. Saito's drawings style seemed weird to me at first, and while it's not the best, it isn't bad either. And I also like how she draws Saionji, for some reason he seemed much better-drawn to me than other characters.

Generally, I think the manga could have been better if it was even more detailed and deeper (story wise), it seemed as if it rushed through all the events. But then again, the series is much more complicated even though it's based on the manga and because the manga came out earlier (I assume it did, anyway), the series had more chances to be improved upon and made better. And that they certainly did.

Also, it's nice to see that there's something different about all the Utena versions, yet the theme is still kept the same.
Surprisingly, I liked the movie manga quite a lot. Being shorter than the regular manga, it was hard to put there many things, so I was glad to see that there was still enough symbolism and an alternate storyline which was quite interesting.

So go ahead and discuss all about the Utena manga version!


The Saionji Support Squad:
Believing in True Friendship Since 2008.

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#2 | Back to Top12-01-2006 10:29:18 AM

Xu Yuan
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 189

Re: Utena mangas

I loved the way they showed Saionji interacting with everyone in the Student council, if there's one thing I missed in the show it was that, Saionji in the Manga is easily my favorite character.


Please check out the MTG Utena Set Progress we have made at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?id=o … 103070805#

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#3 | Back to Top12-01-2006 10:31:21 AM

Epi_lepsia
Tragedian
From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: 11-26-2006
Posts: 1429
Website

Re: Utena mangas

Well, i preffer the anime in general, but the Mikage story. I don't like at all the fact that Mamiya "doesn't exist", not at least as we see him like the Anthy male version. In the manga, Mamiya was dead, that's true, but he was like that cute little white-haired boy, i preffer him in that way than like Tokiko's brother. And, isn't so cruel.

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#4 | Back to Top12-01-2006 10:35:09 AM

Xu Yuan
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 189

Re: Utena mangas

Mamiya, doesn't do anything cruel, s/he leads Mikage down the path of the Black Rose, even Mamiya calls Mikage a cruel man, when he intended to use Tsuwabuki in his plans. It's been suggested though that Anthy herself may have been trying to escape from her life, in hopes that a Black Rose Wearer would defeat Utena and kill her. Though that's just speculation of couyrse.


Please check out the MTG Utena Set Progress we have made at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?id=o … 103070805#

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#5 | Back to Top12-01-2006 10:46:40 AM

Epi_lepsia
Tragedian
From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: 11-26-2006
Posts: 1429
Website

Re: Utena mangas

Xu Yuan wrote:

Mamiya, doesn't do anything cruel, s/he leads Mikage down the path of the Black Rose, even Mamiya calls Mikage a cruel man, when he intended to use Tsuwabuki in his plans. It's been suggested though that Anthy herself may have been trying to escape from her life, in hopes that a Black Rose Wearer would defeat Utena and kill her. Though that's just speculation of couyrse.

I don't mean Mamiya is cruel in the anime or not, i mean Mikage's tragedy isn't so cruel. He was in love with someone who died, and he acted according to a flase imaginary reality, but nothing more. I find the anime story much more cruel and sad.

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#6 | Back to Top12-01-2006 10:55:09 AM

Xu Yuan
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 189

Re: Utena mangas

Oh, right, yeah. In the Manga they had to speed it up, I could see if Utena remembered who Mikage was, she would have kept his Black Rose seal as memory of him. not to mention his words did have a deep impact on her, before Akio erased his existence.


Please check out the MTG Utena Set Progress we have made at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?id=o … 103070805#

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#7 | Back to Top12-01-2006 11:32:33 AM

Epi_lepsia
Tragedian
From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: 11-26-2006
Posts: 1429
Website

Re: Utena mangas

I wish i could see Nemuro or Mikage or whatever, once more, after he graduated. Just once, maybe to meet Utena again, as Nemuro (no longer as Mikage) or... something.. i don't know, Nemuro's end in the anime is so confusing, i don't know if he is dead (or if he has been dead since the begining and everything was a pure illusion...) or what age was him from the begining, for example (cause he was 17-18 as Mikage, but Nemuro?) ... and such stuff. What i mean, i'll like to see Nemuro after being Mikage, again.

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#8 | Back to Top12-01-2006 11:46:17 AM

Xu Yuan
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 189

Re: Utena mangas

Yeah.. but the way they kicked him out was very sudden. Just like Utena, mikage's existence was erased like that... odds are he died though, notice whenever he's in the Mausoleum, he's standing in the shoes of one othe dead 100 duelists... which leads me to believe he died in the fire.


Please check out the MTG Utena Set Progress we have made at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?id=o … 103070805#

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#9 | Back to Top12-01-2006 12:54:01 PM

Epi_lepsia
Tragedian
From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: 11-26-2006
Posts: 1429
Website

Re: Utena mangas

I don't know, i don't really think he is dead, it would be nonesense. I preffer to think that he had a similar end like Utena's, finally free from Akio. He called Akio after all, out of the school, i don't really think he was dead from the begining.

Back to the topic, i preffer anime in general, but about Nemuro/Mikage, i preffer the manga. Is not that confusing, is not that cruel.

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#10 | Back to Top12-01-2006 01:07:08 PM

Nessy
Sunlit Gardener (Prelude)
Registered: 11-04-2006
Posts: 169
Website

Re: Utena mangas

Maarika wrote:

But then again, the series is much more complicated even though it's based on the manga and because the manga came out earlier (I assume it did, anyway), the series had more chances to be improved upon and made better. And that they certainly did.

The series was not based on the manga, actually. The entire thing was basically a collaborative effort (although Chiho Saito had more-or-less full control over the manga and Kunihiko Ikuhara had more-or-less full control over the anime, which is why they are so different) and they came out simultaneously.

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#11 | Back to Top12-01-2006 01:12:51 PM

Razara
Marionette Mistress
From: Wuzzy Happy Akio Town (What?)
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 4693

Re: Utena mangas

There are some things in the manga that I really like, and even prefer over the series. However, there is also some things that I dislike about the manga.

My first and foremost complaint is that Shiori does not exist. Not to mention what they did with Juri...

My real problem is with Kozue. In my opinion, Manga-Kozue is to Series-Kozue as Movie-Akio is to Series-Akio. It's hard to believe that Kozue's character evolved from that from her. Everything good about Kozue is gone. She's not even crazy, no, she's just clingy and annoying. Rather than pushing people down stairs, she yells out bad test scores for everyone to hear. She's just so... Boring. emot-gonk

What bothers me the most is her relationship with Miki. In the manga, she, like several other characters in this series, is in love with her older brother. "My twin brother and I were born together and so we should stay together forever." While I'm sure that this is a problem that some twins go through, it's a problem that can just as easily spawn from any sibling relationships. Though the same is true for both versions of Kozue, the series covers much more problems that twins face, some of which most people who watch this anime might not realize. The situation is the same as Nanami's, where having an older brother that amazing makes all other guys a waste of time, but there is one major difference... Miki and Kozue are twins. Having a twin brother like Miki would be enough to make anyone go crazy, making the way Kozue turned out in the series seem much more realistic.

Right... This is getting a bit off topic. Maybe I'll make a thread about Miki and Kozue's relationship when I get the chance. But my point is that I dislike Kozue because her character just does have the same effects as she does in the series.

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#12 | Back to Top12-01-2006 02:00:22 PM

A Day Without Me
Still Drunk in the Morning?
From: in the tulip garden!
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 1584

Re: Utena mangas

I prefer the art of the manga - especially concerning the color of Anthy's dress, I think the pink suited her better than the intense red of the anime (this is probably why I prefer movie-Anthy's outfit to TV-Anthy's outfit). The art just was prettier.

Other than that, though, I prefer the anime - especially in regards to Juri, since she's a really, really cliche character in the manga.


"I'm bringing paxil back. (Yup)
My HMO might just pick up the tab. (Yup)
I got the tremors and I need a nap. (Yup)
I gave my rent check to them Pfizer cats."

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#13 | Back to Top12-01-2006 07:55:48 PM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 588

Re: Utena mangas

Manga Kozue is a lot more psycholigically realistic, as is almost everyone else. In the anime no one ever really thinks. They are all running on pure id, as someone said in a different thread. That's fine as far as it goes, it gives them grandeur and power but Saito's characters are more like real people.

Juri is still Juri no matter who she is in love with.

Take a good look at manga Utena's face, especially in the scenes where she is walking onto the arena. She glows with both humanity and noblity in a way far surpassing the anime.

Last edited by brian (12-01-2006 08:00:51 PM)

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#14 | Back to Top12-01-2006 08:25:23 PM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
Website

Re: Utena mangas

I cannot even begin to decide on the Utena manga until I can start getting my hands on actual manga volumes.


http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o50/spatulasama/DooDah.jpg

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#15 | Back to Top12-01-2006 08:47:35 PM

A Day Without Me
Still Drunk in the Morning?
From: in the tulip garden!
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 1584

Re: Utena mangas

brian wrote:

Juri is still Juri no matter who she is in love with.

Take a good look at manga Utena's face, especially in the scenes where she is walking onto the arena. She glows with both humanity and noblity in a way far surpassing the anime.

Actually, now that you mention it, I think I do like manga-Utena a wee bit more than anime-Utena. I also enjoy the manga's beginning a lot, I think it does a better job of introducing Utena than the anime does. She seems more princely when you get the pre-Ohtori portion of the story.

But I really think Juri is much less of a complex character in the manga - older, beautiful girl jealous of younger, cute girl who steals the attention of the school's favorite male student? Those are a dime a dozen.

Oh, and while I mention Touga, I like his manga character more than the anime version, too, actually -  but I think anime-Touga definitely serves an important purpose in the anime. What I'm trying to say is that, while I find manga-Touga more personally likable, I think anime-Touga is exactly what he needs to be.


"I'm bringing paxil back. (Yup)
My HMO might just pick up the tab. (Yup)
I got the tremors and I need a nap. (Yup)
I gave my rent check to them Pfizer cats."

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#16 | Back to Top12-01-2006 08:54:02 PM

Romanticide
Cow Bellhop
From: Mazatlan
Registered: 10-18-2006
Posts: 447

Re: Utena mangas

The utena manga bored me. Everything I liked about the series wasn't there. There wasn't any simbolism, the characters were manipulated way more easily and they didn't had anything that kept them into their coffin.
*I didn't liked Miki portrayed as mature, in the anime he might be a genious but he is still pretty inocent and even blushes easily. Also he with a crush on Utena didn't make sense to me. As  Razara said, Kozue pased from crazy to anoying.
*Jury... what have they done to her!!!! emot-gonk She in love with Touga is so wrong in many levels!!! With Shiori out most good of her is gone.
*Saionji... poor Saionji he became the boxing sack of the series... at least in the anime it was shared with Nanami and also it had a point...
*Touga... bleg, I'm not the biggest Touga fan but in the anime he knew perfectly he was being manipulated and didn't care!!! Manga Touga is pathetic in many levels.
*No, Nanami, no Shiori, no black rose saga...
*Akio wasn't as shameless and neither as tragic...
*The witch story of Anthy... gone...


http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1390/firmautenaji0.jpg

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#17 | Back to Top12-01-2006 09:13:12 PM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
Website

Re: Utena mangas

Romanticide wrote:

IN MANGA THERE IS NO NANAMI

emot-gonkemot-gonkemot-gonk SAY IT ISN'T SO!


http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o50/spatulasama/DooDah.jpg

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#18 | Back to Top12-01-2006 09:40:33 PM

Razara
Marionette Mistress
From: Wuzzy Happy Akio Town (What?)
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 4693

Re: Utena mangas

Tamago wrote:

emot-gonkemot-gonkemot-gonk SAY IT ISN'T SO!

We see a picture of her inside of Touga's room, and that's all. At least that's better than Shiori. She doesn't exist at all. emot-gonk

Juri takes over Nanami's role in the manga, or rather, completely ruins her role. The way she handles her feelings in the manga is the exact opposite of the way she handles it in the series. When Touga shows an interest in Utena, she starts bullying Utena, and eventually challenges her to a duel. "I will win-- you here me?! And you will stay away from Touga!" Scary... emot-gonk

Actually, I think that might be an improvement, on some levels. I'd love to see her put that much effort into winning Shiori's affection, rather than giving up instantly and wondering why she still doesn't have her.

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#19 | Back to Top12-01-2006 09:49:15 PM

A Day Without Me
Still Drunk in the Morning?
From: in the tulip garden!
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 1584

Re: Utena mangas

Razara wrote:

Tamago wrote:

emot-gonkemot-gonkemot-gonk SAY IT ISN'T SO!

We see a picture of her inside of Touga's room, and that's all. At least that's better than Shiori. She doesn't exist at all. emot-gonk

Well, at least movie-Shiori exists as a human being (and, really, her having such a large role makes up for her non-existence in the manga) - after all, movie-Nanami is just a cow in a bizarro video tape the SPG have.


"I'm bringing paxil back. (Yup)
My HMO might just pick up the tab. (Yup)
I got the tremors and I need a nap. (Yup)
I gave my rent check to them Pfizer cats."

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#20 | Back to Top12-01-2006 10:09:00 PM

Razara
Marionette Mistress
From: Wuzzy Happy Akio Town (What?)
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 4693

Re: Utena mangas

A Day Without Me wrote:

Well, at least movie-Shiori exists as a human being (and, really, her having such a large role makes up for her non-existence in the manga) - after all, movie-Nanami is just a cow in a bizarro video tape the SPG have.

True... Well, technically she existed as a human being only half of the time. During the other half she was a butterfly and a car.

It's too bad that Nanami didn't get a bigger role in the movie. I would have loved to see her character design. Nanami does have some pretty good perks in the series, though. She got an entire clipshow. (I love that clipshow.) etc-love

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#21 | Back to Top12-02-2006 12:48:08 AM

Maarika
Someday Shiner
From: Estonia
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 2510
Website

Re: Utena mangas

Nessy wrote:

Maarika wrote:

But then again, the series is much more complicated even though it's based on the manga and because the manga came out earlier (I assume it did, anyway), the series had more chances to be improved upon and made better. And that they certainly did.

The series was not based on the manga, actually. The entire thing was basically a collaborative effort (although Chiho Saito had more-or-less full control over the manga and Kunihiko Ikuhara had more-or-less full control over the anime, which is why they are so different) and they came out simultaneously.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me, I wasn't sure about it.


Also, the inital version of Utena.... pink uniform. emot-gonk
Saito has a strange taste in clothes and colours...

Last edited by Maarika (12-02-2006 12:48:27 AM)


The Saionji Support Squad:
Believing in True Friendship Since 2008.

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#22 | Back to Top12-02-2006 03:13:28 AM

Epi_lepsia
Tragedian
From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: 11-26-2006
Posts: 1429
Website

Re: Utena mangas

Maarika wrote:

Also, the inital version of Utena.... pink uniform. emot-gonk
Saito has a strange taste in clothes and colours...

The pink uniform only appears in the 2 first volumes 8D yeah, it sucks, but Miki with normal hair it's even worse.

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#23 | Back to Top12-02-2006 06:48:18 AM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
Website

Re: Utena mangas

From what I have been hearing the anime is better than the manga in many ways... that concept alone scares me and proves once again how unusual SKU really is. emot-aaa cool


http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o50/spatulasama/DooDah.jpg

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#24 | Back to Top12-02-2006 08:56:30 AM

Hinotori
The Notable Death Mantis
From: Soviet Ohiostan
Registered: 10-23-2006
Posts: 1333

Re: Utena mangas

It depends on your taste.

I'm not a huge fan of the manga, but there are a few characters I generally like more, (Saionji, Anthy). The sexuality is there, but not as pronounced.

And I don't think Juri is much like her anime incarnation. The fact that they're both pretty and talented and popular is still there, but the manga Juri is more interested in taking an active role in her life (she doesn't have the reason anime Juri has for not doing so.) and that internal conflict and melancholy is such a big part of her character in the anime it's hard for me to like her any other way.

EDIT: I think manga Juri is running a lot more on Id than the other characters in the manga, which is probably why when she wanders into the anime she basically becomes the genuine character everyone can relate to most, despite all her "perfection"

Last edited by Hinotori (12-02-2006 09:00:27 AM)


Hinotori made this post, and then went back and changed it later. Such is life.


It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." - Harry Truman

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#25 | Back to Top12-02-2006 10:33:05 AM

Archambeau
Muffy, the Forums Trophy Wife
Registered: 11-20-2006
Posts: 499

Re: Utena mangas

I always thought the manga suffered the common pitfall of manga, in that it tended to focus solely on its main character and surround them with a hoard of potentially-interesting supporting characters who are rarely touched upon.  What I love about the series is that everyone gets their time in the spotlight (Black Rose, anyone?) and is granted some development; the manga just seemed rushed and, frankly, vanilla.

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