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HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top08-08-2009 12:18:34 AM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Ohtori's internal geography: or, GET MAP

For a certain highly classified purpose and also out of sheer curiosity, I need your help figuring out where exactly everything is in Ohtori Academy!

http://ohtori.nu/gallery/var/resizes/Series/Episodes/Student_Council_Arc/01/Series_ep01_011.jpg?m=1380825417

The forest and the tower are the campus's defining features.  Just south of the forest is the athletic field.  The large buildings flanking the tower are probably the classroom buildings.  I imagine the space on the mid-right is the spot Nemuro Memorial Hall used to stand.  After that I get stuck.  Some specific questions:

- Where is the main quadrangle, the one where Utena, Wakaba, and Anthy have all those picnics and chats?  Is it on the path in front of the tower, or is it the space south of the athletic field?

- Where is the rose garden?  We know it's adjacent to a bunch of arched architecture of at least two stories, and Utena first runs across it to her right while walking off the field in Episode 1; would it be inside the "square" behind and to the left of the tower?

- Where are the activity rooms -- the Shadow Girls' theater, the kendo dojo, the fencing room, the music room, the home ec kitchens, and so on?

- Where is the statue garden?  We know it has a large pond, but no pond is visible on the map.

- Where is the east dorm?  (And where is/are the other dorm/s?)  In Japan dormitory buildings are often located off campus, but since none of the characters who live in dorms have obvious modes of transportation elsewhere, we can probably assume Ohtori's dorms are on campus.  Would these be the large buildings at bottom left and bottom right?

- What about characters like Touga who don't live in the dorms?  Are they presumed to live off campus?

- What is the building at mid left, the one symmetrical to the ruins of Nemuro Memorial Hall?
Edit: Or since this screencap was taken in episode 1, is Nemuro Memorial Hall still intact and at mid-left, while the "ruins" at mid-right are actually the statue garden or something?

- What am I forgetting?

Thank you for any help you can give me!  For the revolution of the world...'s geography!

Last edited by satyreyes (08-08-2009 01:22:05 AM)

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#2 | Back to Top08-08-2009 10:05:21 AM

BioKraze
Faceless Master
From: Yuma, Arizona (USA)
Registered: 11-26-2006
Posts: 8280

Re: Ohtori's internal geography: or, GET MAP

SLoT posted the map with legend (FROM THE SEGA SATURN GAME MANUAL, NO LESS) to facilitate conversations and descriptions in KTK's Utena 2 roleplay, but I don't know what happened to the link (it reports it as broken or TOS violation). I do have a personal copy on my hard drive, so expect an Email from me with the map as an attachment within the next 24 hours.

I hope that will help you in whatever endeavour you're currently pursuing. emot-keke


Roses have thorns to stop those who would dare deny their right to live.
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#3 | Back to Top08-08-2009 10:47:39 AM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: Ohtori's internal geography: or, GET MAP

Jackpot!  Here is the map that Bio sent along:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i117/satyreyes/OhtoriCampus.jpg
This answers most of my questions from earlier.  I'm proud that I correctly inferred the location of the rose garden, but I got pretty much everything else wrong emot-smile  Still no answers on the main quad, the statue garden, the theater (though that may be inferrably in the south wing), dorms other than the east dorm, or other students' (off-campus?) residences.  Probably all but the main quad are outside Ohtori proper.

Edit: Oh, and duh the dorms are off-campus, that's why we always begin with an establishing shot of all the students crossing that ridiculous bridge to get to school.

Last edited by satyreyes (08-08-2009 10:59:22 AM)

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#4 | Back to Top08-08-2009 07:31:57 PM

BalamiyaVardihi
High Tripper
From: New Jersey
Registered: 12-16-2007
Posts: 243

Re: Ohtori's internal geography: or, GET MAP

Great map! I'll need this when I get lost in Ohtori. emot-wink


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#5 | Back to Top08-08-2009 08:21:53 PM

YostinAust
Pathtracer
From: Tallahassee, Florida
Registered: 04-02-2009
Posts: 352

Re: Ohtori's internal geography: or, GET MAP

I finally get that thing about it looking like a grave...


"In this age, the mere example of non-conformity, the mere refusal to bend the knee to custom, is itself a service"
     - John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

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#6 | Back to Top08-09-2009 04:53:53 PM

Itsuke
Pathtracer
Registered: 12-08-2008
Posts: 341

Re: Ohtori's internal geography: or, GET MAP

Bio, thank you for the map, very useful.

The rooftop of the 2nd Gymnasium (or Gymnasium 2 if you prefer) should be the place where the shadow theatre is. It's the only building with a flat and wide enough rooftop for any activity to take place. It is also the place where Wakaba cheered Utena up in episode 13:
http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/5308-2/Series_ep12_089.jpg
Note the wall behind the girls, look familiar?
http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/5310-2/Series_ep12_090.jpg
http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/5382-3/Series_ep12_126.jpg

where Touga offered Utena a can of coffee in episode 9:
http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/4164-1/Series_ep09_098.jpg

And could it be the spot where Anthy wanted to committ suicide?
http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/15826-1/Series_ep37_203.jpg
http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/15832-1/Series_ep37_206.jpg
Yet, the building looks so much taller and located right at the edge of the campus, while the 2nd Gymnasium is no more than a couple of storeys tall, and no way it could offer such a vertical drop.
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/2497/seriesep37199.jpg  http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/1918/seriesep38072.jpg


==========================================================================

Pictures of the explosion from the curry episode, looking from the direction of the athletic field:
http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/3614-1/Series_ep08_007.jpg

Same explosion from a different angle, and it throws me off from guessing where the home economics classroom is located:
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2677/vlcsnap2009080918h06m45.jpg

==========================================================================

Also, shouldn't the east dorm be located more toward the east? The location indicated on Bio's map is south of the main entrance. Whenever the outside of the dorm is shown in the anime, you can see Ohtori's eastsouth gate, just like the picture down here (captured from the video game): 
http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/18243-1/Game_Opening_097.jpg

but then this picture completely confuses me, but it still doesn't look like the east dorm is located below the main entrance....
http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/2332-2/Series_ep04_131.jpg

==========================================================================

This is the statue garden with the little pond in it. I don't think it is part of Ohtori. I always think it is just a park within the city.
http://www.ohtori.nu/galerie/d/3398-1/Series_ep07_095.jpg

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#7 | Back to Top08-09-2009 05:31:38 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: Ohtori's internal geography: or, GET MAP

Itsuke, this is some nice research!  emot-biggrin

Your observation about the East Dorm is easily explained: Ohtori is not oriented on a north-south axis.  The main gate points east; the forest points west.  (This also explains why the sun sets behind the forest.)  Thus it makes perfect sense that the East Dorm is outside the main gate.  I was confused about this too until I noticed the buildings on the map labeled "North Classroom Building" and "South Classroom Building," at which point it clicked.

Also according to the map, the home ec (or "culinary arts") classroom is in the main block of classroom buildings, to the left (that is, south) of the cocktower.  That's consistent with the screenshots you posted, both of which show the smoke coming from the tower's left as you look at it from the gate.

As far as the Shadow Girls' theater goes, this is all very confusing.  The shot with Touga looks an awful lot like the same place as Wakaba and Utena have their big scene, which in turn looks an awful lot like the theater, which I guess puts the theater on a rooftop.  But it's not clear to me how shadow play theater would work outdoors.  Maybe they always do it at sunset because that's when the light is right?  Furthermore, why the second gym building?  It doesn't seem like the right place to attract an audience (which is maybe why they switch to a different location during the Black Rose Saga?) and it can't be anywhere near their auditorium from Episode 34.  From the map it does look like the flattest, widest roof -- unless I'm misreading the map and that's Nemuro Memorial Hall, which can't be the theater site because the Shadow Girls go back to their old site in the third arc, when NMH doesn't exist anymore.  And what the heck would Utena and Wakaba be doing on the gymnasium (or any) roof, anyway?  Could it be a balcony of some other building?  Does the post-skit establishing shot below have anything to do with anything?  So as I say, I'm still confused.  :-/

http://ohtori.nu/gallery/var/resizes/Series/Episodes/Student_Council_Arc/01/Series_ep01_110.jpg?m=1380825433

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#8 | Back to Top08-10-2009 02:46:57 PM

Razara
Marionette Mistress
From: Wuzzy Happy Akio Town (What?)
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 4694

Re: Ohtori's internal geography: or, GET MAP

Thank you for making this! I've always wondered just what was what on campus. Now I can build a replica of this on This Sims! emot-dance

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#9 | Back to Top08-10-2009 08:00:29 PM

Pfft
Touga Topper
From: Philadelphia
Registered: 12-09-2008
Posts: 51

Re: Ohtori's internal geography: or, GET MAP

This is really interesting!

I agree with Itsuke that the position of the East dorm is not consistent in the pictures shown. If we agree  that the Main Academy Map has west upwards, then the picture captioned "but then this picture completely confuses me" is taken from a location directly south of the campus (since the tower of the North School Building is directly to the left of the Central Tower). The other picture could be either south or south-east of the campus, depending on whether the gate shown is the south-east gate or the main (East) gate?

On the other hand, I agree that the duelling forest should be west because of the sunset. Perhaps most likely the person who drew the East Dorm backgrounds were referring to the Main Map but was confused about how it was oriented?


~ a Sphinx-phinx in the winter of the desert  ~

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#10 | Back to Top08-10-2009 08:08:29 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: Ohtori's internal geography: or, GET MAP

Pfft wrote:

I agree with Itsuke that the position of the East dorm is not consistent in the pictures shown. If we agree  that the Main Academy Map has west upwards, then the picture captioned "but then this picture completely confuses me" is taken from a location directly south of the campus (since the tower of the North School Building is directly to the left of the Central Tower). The other picture could be either south or south-east of the campus, depending on whether the gate shown is the south-east gate or the main (East) gate?

Hmm!  Yeah, that picture is confusing.  I don't think that paltry gate in the visible wall is the entrance -- no dramatic bridge rising up to it, for one thing -- yet we should definitely be able to see the entry arch by looking toward campus from the East Dorm according to Bio/SLoT's map.  Chalk this one up to a mistake on the part of the animators, I guess?  Which is too bad, because otherwise that picture would do a great job establishing which way the Seitokai balcony faced.

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#11 | Back to Top08-10-2009 10:27:40 PM

Syora
Presidential Accoster
From: Under Northern Lights
Registered: 06-07-2009
Posts: 1866

Re: Ohtori's internal geography: or, GET MAP

You guys are amazing. There is no way I would have the spatial awareness or keen powers of observation to put this all together. I can only stare in awe and cling to my map print-out as I wonder the halls. lol

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#12 | Back to Top11-26-2012 08:11:11 PM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1312
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Re: Ohtori's internal geography: or, GET MAP

For a place that so many fans had theorized as a closed-off world, Ohtori Academy just looks so . . . out in the open and uncovered (though of course we know looks can be deceiving).

And the east hall student dorm (along with the fencing hall) is outside of the school gates and far away from the other school buildings?  Is that supposed to symbolize something?


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 3 as of Sep 26, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#13 | Back to Top11-26-2012 09:55:31 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: Ohtori's internal geography: or, GET MAP

gorgeousshutin wrote:

For a place that so many fans had theorized as a closed-off world, Ohtori Academy just looks so . . . out in the open and uncovered (though of course we know looks can be deceiving).

And the east hall student dorm (along with the fencing hall) is outside of the school gates and far away from the other school buildings?  Is that supposed to symbolize something?

I don't think this one's symbolic.  It's uncommon in Japan for a high school or college dorm to be located on campus.  Instead, it'll be sited within walking distance or on a convenient rail line, often in a large building that is shared with other schools or companies that need housing.  An empty residential building as big as the East Dorm is an anomaly itself in a Tokyo exurb, but I don't think it's strange that Ohtori's dorms are off campus. In fact, the students are very lucky the dorms are so close!  emot-smile

As for the fencing hall, the one you're looking at on the map is not the one in the series.  The "old fencing hall" is a spot in the video game.  It's overgrown with vines, and sometimes you can hear the mournful strains of a ukulele emerge from it.  The show's fencing hall, one might guess, is in one of the gymnasiums.

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#14 | Back to Top11-26-2012 11:37:12 PM

Crystalline_Dream
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
From: Beneath a starry sky
Registered: 01-17-2011
Posts: 180

Re: Ohtori's internal geography: or, GET MAP

satyreyes wrote:

...and sometimes you can hear the mournful strains of a ukulele emerge from it.

Hmm....I wonder who's behind that...emot-rolleyes

Last edited by Crystalline_Dream (11-26-2012 11:37:39 PM)

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#15 | Back to Top11-27-2012 09:16:44 AM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1312
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Re: Ohtori's internal geography: or, GET MAP

An empty residential building as big as the East Dorm is an anomaly itself in a Tokyo exurb, but I don't think it's strange that Ohtori's dorms are off campus. In fact, the students are very lucky the dorms are so close!  emot-smile

Hmm . . . then, along with Nanami's house where shadow girls infest picture frames, wherever off campus Miki's Dad was when with his "new wife", and the Church building with the Tenjous Coffin scene, Utena's East Dorm is another off campus spot where A&A are shown exerting considerable magic upon then.  Just how far away from the Campus will A&A's influence end?

P.S. Anyone knows if the hospital place where Juri visits a fencing team member at the end of the Ruka ep is on campus or off?

P.P.S.  I've read fic after fic saying Ohtori is somewhere in Sapporo and not Tokyo . . . is Anime Ohtori stated to be anywhere near Tokyo?  Cause the surrounding scenery seem pretty . . . rural-looking, and Tokyo is supposed to be jammed-packed with tallish commercial buildings/towers.


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 3 as of Sep 26, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#16 | Back to Top11-27-2012 10:55:17 AM

Raven Nightshade
Someday Shiner
From: Louisiana
Registered: 12-17-2006
Posts: 2916

Re: Ohtori's internal geography: or, GET MAP

It's not in Tokyo. Like Satyr said, it's an exurb of Tokyo, a region or settlement that lies outside a city and usually beyond its suburbs and that often is inhabited chiefly by well-to-do families.

Also, Ohtori is in the fake Houou City, which we found out in the "Four Days In Ohtori" playthroughs.

Oh, and there's a "Where is Ohtori?" thread somewhere where we actually discuss where the campus is.

EDIT #43945-- Found it. It also leads to a brief discussion in another thread where we discuss a screencap of Tokyo Tower and a letter that Miki and Kozue get...also the giant ferris wheel from Episode 33.

Last edited by Raven Nightshade (11-27-2012 11:19:53 AM)


Sometimes I wonder if I'm ever gonna make it home again.
It's so far and out of sight.
I really need someone to talk to and nobody else
Knows how to comfort me tonight.

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#17 | Back to Top11-27-2012 12:54:19 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 906

Re: Ohtori's internal geography: or, GET MAP

My headcanon puts it on an island near Hokkaido with a significant Chinese population.
The address Kanae gives could always be an out-of-school residence - the Ohtoris are quite wealthy and could easily own multiple homes.

Last edited by Atropos (11-27-2012 12:55:32 PM)

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#18 | Back to Top11-27-2012 01:08:25 PM

gorgeousshutin
Bare Footman
Registered: 04-11-2012
Posts: 1312
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Re: Ohtori's internal geography: or, GET MAP

Thanks for the info, Raven.

So, it's fictional(Chinese) Phoenix Academy in (Chinese) Phoenix City, which is shown to be beside a lake or sea. The tower and the ferris wheel actually means little, as I remember there being other places in Japan with Tokyo Tower-lite structures.  Is there any screencap of Miki's house address - and I'm talking about the one with The Sunlit Garden that Utena saw to be in ruins, which withis in walking distance to Ohtori - stating it to be at all near Tokyo?   

Atropos wrote:
The address Kanae gives could always be an out-of-school residence

True, that.

Either way, Akio could be piloting the entire Hououmobile all around Japan ensnaring the naive-minded (esp those with delusions of grandeur) for all we know.


(PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 3 as of Sep 26, 2017) / (SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Updated to Part 43 as of Sep 08, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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