You are not logged in.

Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#26 | Back to Top04-17-2009 12:35:42 AM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

I'm not sure if Anthy didn't feel resentful.  After all, the episode preview commentary on episode 36, Anthy did say that she always held Utena in contempt.

I knew that might come up. However, even if you accept preview dialog to be "on the table" (which is dubious at best), Anthy's only saying what she thinks Utena needs to hear.

Anthy is trying to save Utena by pushing her away, getting her fed up enough to walk out. That's the reason Anthy engineered the revelation of her relationship with her brother. That's the reason Anthy ambushes Utena with her passive-aggressive comments in the scene where Utena tears up the final duel summons.

That being the case, of course it makes sense for Anthy to claim, "Oh, and I always hated you" which, as we know, is not true at all.

Last edited by Aelanie (04-17-2009 12:50:36 AM)

Offline

 

#27 | Back to Top04-17-2009 12:51:13 AM

spoon-san
Someday Shiner
Registered: 03-18-2009
Posts: 3423

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

No, I never thought that Anthy at all held Utena in ill will.  I think she is very broken-hearted over everything but I'm saying I think there is some anger coupled with frustration in her that Utena remains blind.  But yeah, I realize Anthy is trying to pull strings to spare Utena from facing the last duel because she knows it will not be pretty.  In fact, I believe one of the reasons she even stabbed Utena was to render her incapable of meddling anymore into her matters because she knew it would only end up causing Utena a pain far greater than being stabbed. 

No, Anthy doesn't hate Utena and Utena never hated Anthy.  Anthy loves Utena more than Utena has any comprehension of, I believe.  It's just that everything seems to be out to rip their friendship apart which is one of the main themes of the series as we know.

Last edited by spoon-san (04-17-2009 01:38:46 AM)

Offline

 

#28 | Back to Top04-17-2009 01:02:33 AM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

Personally, I'm in no doubt Anthy holds Utena in contempt.  You don't manipulate and con people you respect.  Don't get me wrong: I think Anthy likes Utena, needs Utena, maybe even wants Utena.  But she also holds Utena in contempt.  Anthy has convinced herself she's content to spend eternity in this prison with Akio, after all.  Hell, she asked for this when she imprisoned Dios in the first place.  She's come to think she deserves to suffer forever for what she did.  At some point she and Akio set up the dueling game, but it's always been for show and Anthy knows it, and since then there have been a procession of some unknown number N of would-be princes whose soul-swords Akio broke against the Rose Gate as the failed princes themselves lay defeated and dying on the floor. 

Utena?  She's just the next failed prince in line.  Sure, she seems different from the others.  Gentler, more friendly, treating Anthy the way Anthy always watched Dios treat other girls.  But I mustn't get attached, because she's fallen into the trap just as surely as all the others, and just as they failed me Utena will fail me too.  She's not even a boy, for God's sake.  Where does she get off thinking she can be my prince?  She's not like Dios.  No one can ever be like Dios.  If I thought someone could be like Dios I'd have to feel things about them, maybe even betray my brother for them, and if I did that it would make my whole captivity meaningless because I'd discover I could have freed myself anytime.  Obviously I can't have that, so nobility is worthless and Utena is a fool to even pretend to be a prince.  She doesn't know anything.

Hence contempt.  Of course in reality Anthy does love Utena, at least as a friend.  She tries to protect her.  I think the cantarella is simultaneously an expression of contempt and a warning, and I think the suicide attempt is a genuine try at ending the cycle in a way that won't hurt Utena or Akio.  But when the shit hits the fan and Akio pushes Anthy behind Utena at the end of episode 38, we see whose loyalties ultimately, however reluctantly, lie where.

Offline

 

#29 | Back to Top04-17-2009 01:20:40 AM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

<smile> We seem to mostly agree. I certainly agree that Anthy thought Utena's ideals were unrealistic and impossible to fulfill, although I think it's definite that she did, at points, feel a prickle of something like hope that Utena might somehow, someway, beat the system.

But I still think "contempt" is too strong a word, except perhaps that Anthy felt contempt for Utena's ideals themselves, while paradoxically admiring (and pitying) Utena for having them.

Last edited by Aelanie (04-17-2009 01:21:31 AM)

Offline

 

#30 | Back to Top04-17-2009 10:28:53 AM

tohubohu
Precious One
From: Boston metro area
Registered: 11-02-2006
Posts: 289
Website

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

satyreyes wrote:

Personally, I'm in no doubt Anthy holds Utena in contempt.  You don't manipulate and con people you respect.  Don't get me wrong: I think Anthy likes Utena, needs Utena, maybe even wants Utena.  But she also holds Utena in contempt.  Anthy has convinced herself she's content to spend eternity in this prison with Akio, after all.

I can say from experience that when I was in an abusive relationship, I allowed myself to be used to manipulate and con people, and I never held them in contempt.  I kept hoping, silently and secretly, that they would see what was happening and flee, like I couldn't.

Offline

 

#31 | Back to Top04-17-2009 10:45:54 AM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

Aelanie wrote:

<smile> We seem to mostly agree. I certainly agree that Anthy thought Utena's ideals were unrealistic and impossible to fulfill, although I think it's definite that she did, at points, feel a prickle of something like hope that Utena might somehow, someway, beat the system.

But I still think "contempt" is too strong a word, except perhaps that Anthy felt contempt for Utena's ideals themselves, while paradoxically admiring (and pitying) Utena for having them.

Yeah, I think this is right.  I particularly agree that Anthy's got a prickle of carefully suppressed hope (mingled, probably, with fear) that Utena might somehow win after all.  "Contempt for Utena's ideals" may also be a better way to frame Anthy's feelings than "contempt for Utena," though I maintain that the first bleeds into the second.

Offline

 

#32 | Back to Top04-17-2009 09:01:23 PM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

tohubohu wrote:

satyreyes wrote:

Personally, I'm in no doubt Anthy holds Utena in contempt.  You don't manipulate and con people you respect.  Don't get me wrong: I think Anthy likes Utena, needs Utena, maybe even wants Utena.  But she also holds Utena in contempt.  Anthy has convinced herself she's content to spend eternity in this prison with Akio, after all.

I can say from experience that when I was in an abusive relationship, I allowed myself to be used to manipulate and con people, and I never held them in contempt.  I kept hoping, silently and secretly, that they would see what was happening and flee, like I couldn't.

It sounds like you can relate very strongly to Anthy's situation, because you pretty much exactly described how I interpret her feelings. I hope you were able to make a clean escape in the end, too. <hugs>

Last edited by Aelanie (04-17-2009 09:03:08 PM)

Offline

 

#33 | Back to Top04-20-2009 08:54:39 AM

tohubohu
Precious One
From: Boston metro area
Registered: 11-02-2006
Posts: 289
Website

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

Aelanie wrote:

tohubohu wrote:

I can say from experience that when I was in an abusive relationship, I allowed myself to be used to manipulate and con people, and I never held them in contempt.  I kept hoping, silently and secretly, that they would see what was happening and flee, like I couldn't.

It sounds like you can relate very strongly to Anthy's situation, because you pretty much exactly described how I interpret her feelings. I hope you were able to make a clean escape in the end, too. <hugs>

That identification with Anthy is one of the reasons I love SKU.  It's amazing to see one's life reflected on the screen, written by someone who didn't know you at all, and yet knew the best and worst parts of you -- and countless other witches who could never been princesses. emot-smile

I have my own prince. emot-smile  And it's true, really: you can only rescue yourself.  However, there are ways and ways to make leaving easier.  And she did that for me, without having to take the swords. emot-smile

Offline

 

#34 | Back to Top04-20-2009 09:32:40 AM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

That's wonderful. emot-keke

Last edited by Aelanie (04-20-2009 09:33:08 AM)

Offline

 

#35 | Back to Top04-25-2009 10:08:07 AM

sharnii
Pharaoh of Phanstuff
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: 08-10-2008
Posts: 2416
Website

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

tohubohu: I can say from experience that when I was in an abusive relationship, I allowed myself to be used to manipulate and con people, and I never held them in contempt.  I kept hoping, silently and secretly, that they would see what was happening and flee, like I couldn't.

You know I think that is some great Anthy insight right there. poptart etc-love

I would also add and come down on the side of people who have been abused often testing and re-testing their relationships, because of a lack of trust and self-worth. I think abused-Anthy doesn't believe in Utena or Utena's ideals, and simultaneously longs to believe. She never does believe until she's forced to, although she certainly has her moments.

Aelanie: But I still think "contempt" is too strong a word, except perhaps that Anthy felt contempt for Utena's ideals themselves, while paradoxically admiring (and pitying) Utena for having them.

Excellently put. I especially like the bit about paradoxically admiring and pitying.

Last edited by sharnii (04-25-2009 10:09:56 AM)

Offline

 

#36 | Back to Top05-31-2009 12:32:52 PM

Itsuke
Pathtracer
Registered: 12-08-2008
Posts: 341

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

A lot of good points about the true nature of Anthy's contempt toward Utena here. Just like what satyreyes said, Anthy had no faith in Utena winning the duel. I think Anthy started of seeing Utena as a meddlesome figure who disrupted her normal life in Ohtori. I found this poem by Sara H. Hay (The Sleeper 1 [1961]) in which the princess says:

But if he thinks that with a kiss or two
Hell buy my clearest privacy, or shake me
Out of the cloistered world Ive loved so long,
Or tear the pattern of my dream, hes wrong.
Nothing this clumsy trespasser can do
Will ever touch my heart, or really wake me. (Hay, lines 914)

Probably this is close to what Anthy thought of Utena in the TV series, don't you think? Anthy was contented to stay in the cloistered world of Ohtori. Anthy grew comfortable in remaining in her own coffin. The last thing she wanted was a meddlesome, wannabe prince to bring uneasiness to her life. This was exactly what happened, Anthy developed feelings toward Utena somewhere in the series (I am convinced), yet her original attachment to Akio did not disappear right away. It only diminished gradually. It was possible that Anthy was conscious of the slow prograss. She was probably shocked and confused by the new feeling for Utena and old loyality (or whatever you want to call it) toward Akio since both cannot co-exist. This could be what drove her to blame Utena.

Last edited by Itsuke (05-31-2009 10:23:52 PM)

Offline

 

#37 | Back to Top06-01-2009 01:50:13 AM

sharnii
Pharaoh of Phanstuff
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: 08-10-2008
Posts: 2416
Website

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

Itsuke: This was exactly what happened, Anthy developed feelings toward Utena somewhere in the series (I am convinced), yet her original attachment to Akio did not disappear right away. It only diminished gradually.

I'd like to add the theory that Anthy didn't lose her feelings for Akio (as complicated as they were, and as mixed up with her feelings for Dios) ever in the series. She chooses to obey Akio's implicit command to stab Utena; she wipes the tears from his face and accepts her "rightful" place (again).

In other words her attachment is still there at the very end, co-existing alongside her growing attachment to Utena.
Just like Utena's attachment to Akio is pretty much existent almost to the end (when she challenges it, and cuts through it if you will - for Anthy's sake).

Of course Anthy leaves Akio to go and find Utena just before the closing credits (a clear choice there), but once again I don't think it necessarily means she's not feeling certain complicated sentiment toward him still.
As I imagine Utena would too (wherever the heck she is emot-tongue).

Akio and the feelings he inspires in our heroines remains a pivot point. They've pivoted past him but you don't get over however many millenia-worth of relationship (Anthy), or a lifetime of searching for your prince (Utena).

Oh and Itsuke, what a gorgeous poem. poptart I think it's very aptly expressive, just like you said. I might even quote it in a future fanfic...very Anthy.

Offline

 

#38 | Back to Top06-01-2009 11:55:29 AM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 588

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

What does the word "contempt" actually mean? To me it is not a synonym for hate but of condescension. You can be insulted by someone for whom you feel either hate or love but the insults of someone for whom you feel contempt are merely dismissed and forgotten like the insults of a pouting 4-year-old. There may even be room for compassion or affection. In the manga she encloses three of the Setokai in crystal coffins and simply remarks sadly that they are being held back by their own weaknesses. In the series she has a stricken look in the wake of "Nanami's Egg" episode that implies that she felt bad about tormenting her tormenter.

Most of the time it is unlikely that either Akio or Anthy waste energy hating or loving any particular individual except each other.

Offline

 

#39 | Back to Top06-01-2009 04:22:00 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8730
Website

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

brian wrote:

Most of the time it is unlikely that either Akio or Anthy waste energy hating or loving any particular individual except each other.

I definitely think this is true, especially in that both of them kinda see the world through what the other does to the people around them. Anthy keeps a safe distance from people by viewing them as gears in the clockwork Akio runs, and Akio uses Anthy (even more than himself, at times) to manipulate, judge, and view other people. On one hand he keeps on the pulse of things, but on the other he only involves himself with major players most of the time--you get the impression most of what he knows of the school and the people he may or may not use to his advantage he hears as pillow talk on Saturday night, and because Anthy is so used to seeing people in those terms, they both are blind in the same places.

As for contempt, I definitely view it as condescension... something people feel towards others they view as lesser, often along a social, economic, or power-oriented gradient. (In either direction.) Contempt is more acute though, a bit more acidic. Anthy holds the world in contempt and Akio is condescending toward it.


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
Chiefest of Calamities

Offline

 

#40 | Back to Top06-03-2009 05:17:27 AM

Itsuke
Pathtracer
Registered: 12-08-2008
Posts: 341

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

Anthy's feelings toward Akio may be complicated. However, I really think Anthy and Akio's relationship resembles those old married couples who hate each other but still won't dissolve their marriage; as if they have made the conscious decision to stay together due to some twisted sense of loyality, but at the same time they take great joy in tormenting each other until one of them is dead. Problem for Anthy and Akio is they really can torment each other for eternity. Thank god Utena shows up to break the cycle.
At the end of the story, Utena fulfills her promise to Anthy by opening the coffin. That is the original motivation behind Utena's lifelong goal to become a noble prince. She should realize at that point that the person she has been searching for is not Dios, but Anthy. (Besides, after finding out what a prick Akio is, can she continues to feel sentiment toward him?) The reawaken Anthy must realize the relationship with her borther is over. Whatever feelings there was for Akio had duely ran its course. Her last comment to Akio is a simple: Right, I have had enough of this shit. You can stay here and pretend you've got the world's biggest penis. But I am leaving you to chase after my pinkheaded dyke~

Yet, there is one point that I am not too certain. Anthy remarks on a number of occasion that Utena reminds her of Dios. But before the final episode, do you think Anthy actually remembers her earlier meeting with the young Utena?

Offline

 

#41 | Back to Top06-04-2009 01:13:46 PM

spoon-san
Someday Shiner
Registered: 03-18-2009
Posts: 3423

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

I've actually been wondering myself whether Anthy remembers or even ever registered Utena when Utena saw Anthy when they were children (which makes me wonder how old Utena really is anyway).  I have nothing to base anything off of.  Sometimes I feel that she's just as clueless as Utena is about that event until the final duel, of course (I believe Utena finally knows and remembers everything then), but other times it's like she knows about what Utena saw and she knows about the dream but it makes no sense but I know SKU doesn't always have to make sense, but it's just one of those complicated questions which hangs on my mind sometimes.

Offline

 

#42 | Back to Top06-05-2009 12:13:26 AM

End of the Tour
Ballgoer
From: The Nowhere Islands
Registered: 09-11-2008
Posts: 143

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

I just watched episodes 34 and 35 again tonight, and it definitely seems like Anthy is starting to think that there's something familiar about Utena.  On the other hand, Anthy only opened her eyes at the very end of the flashback, so there really wasn't all that much for her to remember.

Also, we have no idea how many other crying children Akio has shown the suffering Rose Bride to.  It could be a hobby of his.


Sometimes life is about making difficult sandwiches.

Offline

 

#43 | Back to Top06-05-2009 03:05:52 AM

Itsuke
Pathtracer
Registered: 12-08-2008
Posts: 341

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

End of the Tour wrote:

Anthy only opened her eyes at the very end of the flashback, so there really wasn't all that much for her to remember.

I always think Anthy had seen Utena at that scene. Well, could be just my wishful thinking.

End of the Tour wrote:

Also, we have no idea how many other crying children Akio has shown the suffering Rose Bride to.  It could be a hobby of his.

A hobby? Now this is disturbing...emot-gonk

Offline

 

#44 | Back to Top06-05-2009 04:33:25 AM

sharnii
Pharaoh of Phanstuff
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: 08-10-2008
Posts: 2416
Website

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

Itsuke: Anthy's feelings toward Akio may be complicated. However, I really think Anthy and Akio's relationship resembles those old married couples who hate each other but still won't dissolve their marriage; as if they have made the conscious decision to stay together due to some twisted sense of loyality, but at the same time they take great joy in tormenting each other until one of them is dead.

I like how you put this, the analogy works for me. etc-love Although I would add that I think there's an element of "love from that time long distant" that doesn't go away in those kind of relationships, and thus adds to the pain. That's what I theorize Anthy might feel even when she makes the decision to leave the shell of her brother behind.

As for how much of child Utena's vow Anthy remembers...I think she remembers it but it's not real to her. It's like something you saw once a long long time ago, that seemed impossible, and not very important through what you were dealing with (in Anthy's case the pain of the million swords).

A scene that's like a puzzle piece that doesn't make sense to much much later, when lots of other puzzle pieces are beginning to fit into place. Then you remember it fully (and it's kind of awe-inspiring, kind of, although it seems so stupid), but it's still not important, because of what you're dealing with and the way you know things must be, so you dismiss it and act live you always have.

Offline

 

#45 | Back to Top07-11-2011 09:09:50 PM

KaleMarsh
High Tripper
From: Washington, DC
Registered: 06-13-2011
Posts: 245

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

artemis88 wrote:

Aelanie wrote:

However, in fairness it must be pointed out that no "platonic" explanation of Utena and Anthy's relationship could or would ever satisfy me.

Agreed !!!! 10000000%

In my opinion, dismissing the obvious romantic love between them rips the entire story apart.

I'm tired of cluttering a separate thread with conversations about Anthy and Utena's relationship when there's this aptly-titled thread here.  This is a somewhat new turn in this topic, but I'm curious.

As someone who thinks that either a romantic love, a friendship, or even a separate self-will on Utena's part would all be valid interpretations of the series, I'd like to hear the logic behind this.  It's interesting.

Last edited by KaleMarsh (07-11-2011 09:10:11 PM)

Offline

 

#46 | Back to Top07-11-2011 10:41:53 PM

artemis88
Mikage Mistruster
Registered: 05-05-2011
Posts: 66

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

To put it simply: denial..

Series!Utena, throughout most of the series, is in denial regarding her feelings for Anthy. She doesn't even consider there's a chance that she might be bi or a lesbian - I get the feeling that the idea might evenseem disturbing to her. She is obsessed with finding the prince..

Movie!Utena is more conscious of her feelings.. Even if only a little. In pretty much first line in the movie, she flirts with Wakaba. and Anthy is uninhibited in the movie, her hair down glasses off etc. Utena can't fight her attraction so easily. I really love how the movie shows them being more honest with themselves in so many ways.

Anyways.. I get the feeling that Utena has trouble accepting her romantic love for Anthy. In the series she represses it, in the movie she is at least conscious of it but her obsession with Touga and the prince clouds it..

In both series and movie form I think Utena has wanting to BE a prince confused with loving a prince. So she sees her own admiration for Touga and Akio (before she learns how unprincelike they actually are) as love when really she saw in her admiration of what she believed them to be, what she wanted to be herself.

Her love for Anthy is selfless and genuine. Maybe I'm just reading way too much into it but, I see Utena as partly a story about a lesbian coming to terms with herself. Going to the length of forcing herself to sleep with Akio, even, even if she instantly regretted going that far. To be "normal". but I might be biased because I grew up a very repressed lesbian myself. I'm 22 and only began to accept it a couple of years ago. but Utena being bi vs lesbian is an irrelevant argument, lol. Only going by my own experience on that one

I get irritated when people completely deny anything more than friendship between Anthy and Utena in the series.

Last edited by artemis88 (07-11-2011 10:46:25 PM)

Offline

 

#47 | Back to Top07-12-2011 06:14:38 AM

KaleMarsh
High Tripper
From: Washington, DC
Registered: 06-13-2011
Posts: 245

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

Thanks for sharing your view, artemis.

My own interpretation is that Utena is too blinded by her own goal in becoming a prince that she forgets that the purpose of being a prince is to fight for someone else.  Utena is struggling with her own ego and her own extremely surface-level view of princely-ness that she forgets why she wanted to become a prince in the first place: to save Anthy from eternal torment.  At the time she meets Anthy, I don't think she has any feelings but compassion for her at all.  Ultimately, I think it's this feeling that she remembers.  The rest (friendship, bitterness, romantic love, pride, what have you) actually muddle things more for her.

Though I think the possibility that she loves Anthy, and only saves Anthy because she loves her (whether it's friendship or romance) puts an interesting spin on Dios' original take on the prince.  Do you think her love for Anthy makes Utena more or less of a prince?

Offline

 

#48 | Back to Top07-13-2011 11:21:45 AM

Shadow Play Princess
New Student
From: SoCal
Registered: 07-12-2011
Posts: 6

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

That's a good question, Kale...I can see the point that saving someone because you love them would make your act less selfless, and therefore less princely, but I disagree. I think it was Utena's lack of real love for Anthy that prevented her from being the prince early on, and the immature, still selfish nature of her love that prevented her from being the prince until episode 39. It seems to me that if Utena was playing the prince out of anything other than unconditional, consummate love for Anthy, then yes, she is less of a prince. I don't think this is the case in the series. Whether it had a sexual tone or not, I firmly believe that Utena's love for Anthy in the series was pure and true - she ended up loving who Anthy was in the end, not her idea of her (like everyone else) - and that is what made her a prince. Pure, unconditional love is the hallmark of a prince in my mind, because it is hard to love someone unconditionally, without other motives, the way Utena ends up loving Anthy. As for the movie, I definitely feel like Utena's love for Anthy was not unconditional and pure - just romantic, which I definitely feel made her less of a prince, maybe not even a prince at all. I'm not saying that romantic love isn't a princely thing, just that romantic love without unconditional love for the other person is selfish. So yes, Utena's lack of unconditional love for Anthy in the movie prevented her from being the prince in the movie. I would even go so far as to say the love that Anthy found for herself through Utena made her her own prince in the movie.

Just my thoughts.

Offline

 

#49 | Back to Top07-15-2011 01:42:01 AM

gumi
Wakaba Wrangler
Registered: 06-11-2010
Posts: 10

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

Fans keep saying how Utena was so selfish in her desire to protect Anthy, but I've been wondering if the same couldn't be said about Anthy? I mean, she wanted to save Dios ok, but did she ever consider Dios' feelings? Maybe he wanted to used by those people? Maybe he wanted to stay blind to the true nature of humanity (and isn't that similar to how Anthy seemed like she wanted to continue being a mindless doll and stay blind to her brother's machinations?)
Sometimes I think that Anthy might be the most selfish person in the show.

Offline

 

#50 | Back to Top07-15-2011 07:27:39 AM

Davine Lu Linvega
Spam Arsonist
Registered: 06-08-2011
Posts: 88

Re: Utena's and Anthy's Relationship

Anthy's moral nature is interesting - we don't see much evidence that she's capable of altruism or "good" behavior. Her most arguably "good" acts come before and after she's impaled by the million swords - first, she seals Dios away to keep him from working himself to death, then after she's free she says she'll go find Utena. But both of these acts serve her own desires at least as much as they serve Dios and Utena. Her attempted suicide could be seen as an altruistic act to keep Utena from going to the final duel but it could also be seen as cowardly and selfish.

For the bulk of the series her actions are completely selfish and her main pastime seems to be psychologically torturing the people around her. You could even say she's more of a villian than Akio because she holds the true agency in their relationship by enabling his behavior. But most viewers root for her to escape just as Utena does.

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB 1.2.23
© Copyright 2002–2008 PunBB
Forum styled and maintained by Giovanna and Yasha
Return to Empty Movement