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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top03-04-2009 03:47:50 AM

Nickyhabac
Wakaba Wrangler
Registered: 02-27-2009
Posts: 11

The Nanami lie

I have a question. The nuance of which I don't think has been hit on exactly before, even in: http://forums.ohtori.nu/viewtopic.php?id=969

So. If Nanami ended up better off after she swallowed Touga's lie then what was the point of them doing it? Isn't the whole point to keep poeple "in their coffins"?

Was someone honestly trying to make her a stronger, more humble and independant girl or was it just a lucky side-effect of Touga being a bastard?

Thanks

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#2 | Back to Top03-04-2009 04:08:46 AM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 377

Re: The Nanami lie

Which lie, specifically? He tells so many... emot-confused

But to give a general answer, isn't it just that Nanami proved to be stronger than they realized?

Plus, even Series Touga isn't a total bastard...maybe in some way, he was hoping it would produce a positive reaction in her?

But again, you'll need to be more specific...

Last edited by Aelanie (03-04-2009 04:10:31 AM)

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#3 | Back to Top03-04-2009 08:59:16 AM

pojypojy
Miki Molester
From: Italy
Registered: 01-05-2009
Posts: 33
Website

Re: The Nanami lie

I think she is referring to Touga telling her they aren't actually related by blood, while in fact they are. Only not to their parents (so Nanami keeps being oblivious about the adoption, too?).

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#4 | Back to Top03-04-2009 11:35:45 AM

Riri-kins
World's End
From: Cloud Nine
Registered: 09-22-2008
Posts: 2346

Re: The Nanami lie

I think it just happened.  But remember, Touga and Akio were hoping she would surrender to her desires so it came back to bite them in the ass. I really loved Nanami in that episode because she proved to herself that she wasn't attached to her brother's apron strings.


Proud Saionji and Mikage fangirl
My Utena fanfiction: http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2000115/Riri-kins

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#5 | Back to Top03-04-2009 01:17:38 PM

hollow_rose
Egghead
From: Ohio
Registered: 10-26-2008
Posts: 1074

Re: The Nanami lie

Riri-kins wrote:

I think it just happened.  But remember, Touga and Akio were hoping she would surrender to her desires so it came back to bite them in the ass. I really loved Nanami in that episode because she proved to herself that she wasn't attached to her brother's apron strings.

Me too. It shows real character growth and how she has her own little "Revolution." A lot of the other characters do not break free as strongly or on their own as she does.


20 threads dead so far.

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#6 | Back to Top03-05-2009 02:32:22 AM

Nickyhabac
Wakaba Wrangler
Registered: 02-27-2009
Posts: 11

Re: The Nanami lie

Exactly why I really like her character too. So I suppose it was something of a failure?
Wouldn't that make it the only failure in the 'plan'? (Well, aside from Utena revolutionising the world an all).
There's always Saionji I suppose who, once again, seems to follow a very similar path to Nanami.

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#7 | Back to Top03-05-2009 03:54:21 PM

Ragnarok
Caption Captor
From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4472
Website

Re: The Nanami lie

Akio's plan for Nanami, as with the other members of the Student Council, seems only to have her duel (and lose to) Utena. His pillow talk with Touga afterwards is probably just for the fun of it and to gauge Touga's own thoughts. Consider that after Saionji's duel, Akio tells Touga to remain close to his friend, and Saionji still has a part in getting Touga to duel later on. Not every student at Ohtori has to remain there indefinitely, in fact Akio only needs Anthy; everyone else is expendable to one degree or another. Using Nanami, even if it helps her grow, to keep Utena on the desired path is a perfectly acceptable trade-off for Akio. (Though personally, I doubt Akio ever thought Nanami was that strong.)

Last edited by Ragnarok (03-05-2009 03:57:19 PM)


http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/RagnarokIII/spyschool.jpg

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#8 | Back to Top03-05-2009 05:26:42 PM

Nights1stStar
Ballgoer
From: Clawing Out of Her Coffin
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 157

Re: The Nanami lie

Ragnarok wrote:

Akio's plan for Nanami, as with the other members of the Student Council, seems only to have her duel (and lose to) Utena. His pillow talk with Touga afterwards is probably just for the fun of it and to gauge Touga's own thoughts. Consider that after Saionji's duel, Akio tells Touga to remain close to his friend, and Saionji still has a part in getting Touga to duel later on. Not every student at Ohtori has to remain there indefinitely, in fact Akio only needs Anthy; everyone else is expendable to one degree or another. Using Nanami, even if it helps her grow, to keep Utena on the desired path is a perfectly acceptable trade-off for Akio. (Though personally, I doubt Akio ever thought Nanami was that strong.)

You caught the spirit of what I was thinking, Ragnarok. Here's how I would explain it:

It's not so much that Akio 'fails' in keeping Nanami weak. It's just that he doesn't care one way or another after this series of Duels is done. The Council Members are basically just tools to hone the current Champion's strength. Throughout RGU on a whole, Akio has to keep the Duelists just strong enough to fight for their dreams but too weak to believe that they could do so without mystical outside intervention. Nanami's final duel, however, takes place at a point where Akio's sure that Utena will reach the last duel of the series. Only Touga's duel remains after hers is done. Thus, the Council Members are no longer needed to hone Utena's nobility, and Akio no longer has to keep them in their carefully-balanced emotional limbos. Nanami and all the rest of the series' Student Council members could've eventually left school to marry royalty for all he cared. He'd still view himself as immortal god of his own little palace, and those outside of the palace would not exist for him.

But, believe me, I empathize with all the devoted Nanami fans here. We all must've wished our for favorite characters to defy Akio and screw him over for just once instead of the other way around. (That's what the movie is for. Everyone in the movie pretty much owns Akio in terms of awesomeness. Good ( emot-dance ) or bad ( emot-gonk ) thing? ) Although I do think all the main characters finally became disillusioned with Akio in the end, it's unrealistic to think that anyone but Anthy and Utena had the power to really fuck him up. (Excuse my language, but you gotta say that it's fitting in this situation. I promise that this RGU forum is the only site where I EVER use the F-word in conversation. emot-biggrin)

Last edited by Nights1stStar (03-05-2009 05:32:52 PM)


"To copulate is to enter another...and the artist never emerges from herself."
-Charles Bauldelaire

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#9 | Back to Top03-06-2009 05:10:28 AM

Nickyhabac
Wakaba Wrangler
Registered: 02-27-2009
Posts: 11

Re: The Nanami lie

The answer was rather simple really I suppose..
Its not a question of failure as he didn't give a shit what happened to her anyway.
She just happened to get lucky in her own way.

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