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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top02-14-2009 07:41:44 AM

KissingT.Kiryuu
Hentai Hero!!!
From: Somewhere and Nowhere
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4090
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Utena and the One Ring

A couple nights ago while laying in bed after a session of Utena BESM, i had a thought. Im not sure if a thread was made for such a topic..(i did go looking) so lets get on with it.

Utena is given a ring by her "prince" (Dios). It somehow leads her to Ohtori where she finds it has strange symbolism with being a "Duelist" The first one to show off their ring to miss Utena was our dear Saionji. Utena had little to no reaction to it really....Untill Touga showed it to her....and she was all OMG-WTF-BBQ-UR-MAI-PRINZ!! He has the ring! he must be my prince!!

Wait what? Why does she think that TOUGA is her prince as opposed to when Saionji showed it... or when she noticed that Juri and Miki had it too? I know Touga liked to play off her emotions and be all "yes...yes i am your prince...*snerk*" But i still just don't get it because the only reasoning she had was that he has the ring.


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#2 | Back to Top02-14-2009 12:09:52 PM

dollface
Postmistress Elf of Subtext
From: North Carolina
Registered: 11-17-2006
Posts: 5086
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Re: Utena and the One Ring

When I saw the title, I thought it was a thread comparing SKU to LOTR. My brain would have exploded.

I've wondered that as well, though. I understand that Touga has more flare and power when he shows his ring to Utena, but it still doesn't make any sense. Yes, Saionji didn't act princely, but Touga didn't really resemble Dios in the flashbacks, in both is looks and his actions. I feel that Touga comes off much more smug than Dios did, and you would think that Utena wouldn't fall for it.

edit:typo

Last edited by dollface (02-14-2009 12:50:29 PM)


ah, man does not exist; ah, within the darkness; ah, the sound of the waves

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#3 | Back to Top02-14-2009 12:43:16 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: Utena and the One Ring

I'm not sure.  It is an interesting question.  But it's worth noting that it wasn't just because of episode 3, where Utena meets Touga and sees he has the ring, that she concludes he's her prince.  Touga plays her like a violin throughout the arc.  He seems to somehow know details about Utena's childhood encounter with the prince, for instance.  ("It felt like... this... didn't it?")  In reality this is probably through very skillful guesswork or through his connection to Akio, but for Utena it's evidence that he must be her prince -- because who else would know about that encounter? 

Also significant is the scene where Touga gives a Rose Seal to Nanami -- and makes sure Utena is watching.  Now he has established himself in her mind as the guy who gives out the rose seals.  If he can give Nanami a seal, maybe he gave Utena hers too.

Combine this with his princely bearing, his position as an authority figure, his charisma, and his never ever letting Utena forget that he might be her prince, and you can understand why she reacts differently to him than he does to Saionji.

ETA: "Hurry, Utena-sama!  We must cast the Rose Seal into the fires of Mount Doom before Akio reclaims it!"  "NOOO!  The Rose Seal is my one link to my prince!  It gives me special powers!  It is my -- precious!"

Last edited by satyreyes (02-14-2009 12:45:47 PM)

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#4 | Back to Top02-14-2009 04:42:03 PM

Raven Nightshade
Someday Shiner
From: Louisiana
Registered: 12-17-2006
Posts: 2916

Re: Utena and the One Ring

I think it's because Touga(and Saionji) were the ones who found Utena in the coffin initially. I'm about 90% sure that she gets the ring not long after that because that's when Dios finds her and shows her "eternity", aka Anthy being the Eternal Pincushion. Being as young as she was, I'd bet that the whole thing blurred and jumbled itself together over time. That's why she doesn't remember seeing Anthy suffering, or why she doesn't recall Saionji being there. Thus, I think she merged meeting Touga with meeting Dios and superimposed the two.


Sometimes I wonder if I'm ever gonna make it home again.
It's so far and out of sight.
I really need someone to talk to and nobody else
Knows how to comfort me tonight.

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#5 | Back to Top02-15-2009 09:22:45 AM

Bluesky
Chpn Dlst
From: Your window
Registered: 10-25-2008
Posts: 1939
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Re: Utena and the One Ring

The scene with Touga trying to persuade Utena he's her prince for the first time always cracked me up, purely for the reason that immeditely after he does a picture of Dios appears on the screen, who is obviously very, very much not Touga.


/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\

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#6 | Back to Top02-15-2009 06:05:30 PM

hollow_rose
Egghead
From: Ohio
Registered: 10-26-2008
Posts: 1074

Re: Utena and the One Ring

Miss Bluesky wrote:

The scene with Touga trying to persuade Utena he's her prince for the first time always cracked me up, purely for the reason that immeditely after he does a picture of Dios appears on the screen, who is obviously very, very much not Touga.

Likewise, when Saionji mistakes Anthy for Utena. I realize they were all little kids, but still...... apparently, they're all colorblind!


20 threads dead so far.

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#7 | Back to Top02-15-2009 06:14:25 PM

Esmenet
Tenjou Tilter
From: Illinois
Registered: 12-04-2008
Posts: 83

Re: Utena and the One Ring

Maybe their hair was naturally black and just became weird colours when they all turned twelve! school-devil


The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born must first destroy a world. [The bird is flying to God. The name of the God is called Abraxas.]

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#8 | Back to Top02-19-2009 03:26:01 PM

Riri-kins
World's End
From: Cloud Nine
Registered: 09-22-2008
Posts: 2346

Re: Utena and the One Ring

Well, Dios just said the ring would lead her to him. He never said he would have a matching one. As for noticing Touga, that was probably because she suddenly remembered his voice from childhood or something.


Proud Saionji and Mikage fangirl
My Utena fanfiction: http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2000115/Riri-kins

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#9 | Back to Top02-19-2009 11:29:15 PM

rhyaniwyn
Myth is my Bitch
From: Tallahassee, FL
Registered: 11-09-2006
Posts: 684
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Re: Utena and the One Ring

I've noticed that, too.  At first I thought it was just a plot hole (or...inconsistent plot timetravel...), because "they" knew Utena was going to think Touga was her prince later, she reacted strongly at the outset.

But to be honest (and I know this may not be popular)...I think Utena didn't freak out about the other rings because she isn't terribly interested in Saionji, Juri, or Miki.  When Utena is talking with Wakaba at the window in Ep 1 Utena already knows who Touga is, but has no idea who Saionji, Anthy, Juri, or Miki (the other how-could-you-miss-them highly visible student council members) are.  I'll grant that Touga is probably more ostentatious than the others, but still -- Utena acts like she's never noticed them before, but is pretty darn familiar with Touga's face, name, and position.   Why?  'Cause Utena was attracted to Touga.  That's why Touga was able to manipulate Utena so profoundly with vague hints over the course of a few days.  "They" say you have to consent to seduction in order to be seduced.

I'm not saying Utena approved of Touga and wanted to be his girlfriend, especially as she came to know him better.  But her attitude toward Touga simply reeks of subconscious intrigue before, enraged embarrassment after, and defensiveness always.  If Utena disdains Touga so completely, what does she have to be so defensive about?  He'd be no threat to her if he held no temptation.  Thus, her greater reaction to Touga's possible involvement with Utena's prince.

Last edited by rhyaniwyn (02-19-2009 11:31:48 PM)


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#10 | Back to Top04-18-2009 09:31:36 PM

YostinAust
Pathtracer
From: Tallahassee, Florida
Registered: 04-02-2009
Posts: 352

Re: Utena and the One Ring

I always felt that it was Touga who inspired her to become a prince. Do not worry, a sudden urge to deny the previous satatement appears to be a large plot element in the movie. It seems most of Utena's personal conflict in the movie revolves around her rconciling the fact that Touga saved her and the fact the Touga is a huge dick/douche/ashole/asstoy/etc. Her reaction to this is essentially a huge WTF at what she sees when she looks past her self-created illusion of Dios coming and inspiring her.

Another them that comes up when I look at the movie and the series side by side is the fact that the whole Dios/revolution mythos seems to coat and misdirect te personal neuroses of the characters.

Utena can't reconcile her nobility with both the her impurity and the impurity of the world=need for Dios on white horse
Juri can't make her love for shiori come to fruition=need for miracles
Saionji desperately needs a sense of security and love=need for eternity

Once Dios is no more and Akio falls, the characters are left to manage themselves and their own probles in more direct ways


"In this age, the mere example of non-conformity, the mere refusal to bend the knee to custom, is itself a service"
     - John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

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