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#1 | Back to Top10-24-2008 11:59:40 PM

phul
Wakaba Wrangler
From: Seoul
Registered: 10-14-2008
Posts: 12

Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

I keep reading in different people's character analyses that Miki and Kozue had some sort of sexual relationship when they were younger, but there was nothing in the series that indicated (to me, at least) that that was the case.  Can somebody explain to me where this is coming from?  (And if this is answered elsewhere on the forum, my apologies!  Hope you don't mind linking it for me.)

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#2 | Back to Top10-25-2008 12:09:23 AM

sharnii
Pharaoh of Phanstuff
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: 08-10-2008
Posts: 2416
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Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

I'll just add to your comment in passing, phul, that I too got no indication of this from watching the series itself.
I've only picked up on it as a theory held by some fans.
Not that I haven't embraced that theory when it suited me! emot-aaa emot-redface emot-tongue

My guess is that it's probably got something to do with the way they both flash back to/remember their childhood days as intricately connected to what's gone wrong in their current relationship. I wouldn't mind some more explaining of the theory though.

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#3 | Back to Top10-25-2008 03:55:32 AM

Clarice
Well hello, Clarice...
From: New Zealand
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 3102
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Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

There are people here who can -- and will -- articulate their thoughts on this a lot better than I could, but my view on it is this: they likely as not didn't have what I would classify a "sexual" relationship as children. But there was probably some undertone of sexual experimentation there. Which is to say, "you show me yours, I'll show you mine." I don't see anything sinister in that whatsoever. The element of sexuality in their relationship as teenagers is due to what is probably the "modern" distortion of what does and doesn't constitute intimacy in a relationship. As children, Miki and Kozue were always together, or so it's implied. They contrasted and completed each other. This isn't so as they've grown older. Now, an overall theme of the series is that sexuality is part of an "adult" relationship, and is a way of forging intimacy with another person (we see this again and again in the relationships of all characters). When one person cannot provide this intimacy for another person, it is often implied that they feel they are replaced by another person who can -- take Nemuro and Tokiko as another example, or the Shiori/Juri/nameless boy triangle (you could do this with Ruka also), or the Touga/Nanami dynamic. Kozue is in a similar situation with Miki -- she's in an adult world and thinks the only way she can keep and maintain Miki is to be his everything. And that includes the role of lover. She flaunts her sexuality even as he represses his, and she resents him for it. Whether or not this means there was some element of this same behaviour as children is entirely conjecture, and we're given no evidence of it in the series. Although we're also given no evidence to the contrary, and that's where the fun really starts.

I apologise if this makes no sense, it's getting late and my brain died about three hours ago. emot-gonk


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#4 | Back to Top10-25-2008 01:09:09 PM

End of the Tour
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From: The Nowhere Islands
Registered: 09-11-2008
Posts: 143

Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

For what it's worth, I don't see Miki and Kozue as sexually involved, either in the past or the present.  With Kozue especially I suspect that she values Miki for his non-sexual affection, which could be very precious to someone who is usually so highly sexual.  Sure, it bugs her that he looks down on her for not being as repressed as he is, but she'll still look out for him (pushing creepy teachers down the stairs), and it still hurts her when his interest in someone else seems to be pulling him away from her.

Miki, on the other hand, still has plenty of non-sexual affection for Kozue, sure, but it's also tied into his, er, rose-colored view of her from their childhood, and now elements from that view are being attached to other people (or at least to one other person) who he is sexually attracted to.  So, if one of them is in danger of getting feelings for siblings tangled up with their sexuality, I'd say it's Miki.  (Although I suppose it's not really a surprise that this would be more likely to happen to the more repressed one.)

Obviously that's just my own interpretation, but I do like the conclusion that Kozue is the least into her brother despite being the most visibly sexual of Ohtori Academy's noteworthy girls-with-brothers.


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#5 | Back to Top10-25-2008 01:52:51 PM

Katzenklavier
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From: Back of your thoughts.
Registered: 09-13-2008
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Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

Obviously that's just my own interpretation, but I do like the conclusion that Kozue is the least into her brother despite being the most visibly sexual of Ohtori Academy's noteworthy girls-with-brothers.

I definitely disagree. Where Nanami's sexual attraction to Touga is often confused with her genuine affection, I see Kozue's dynamic with Miki as motivated almost exclusively by sexuality. The Black Rose arc brings out the darkness concealed in its victims. Although some of the characters act in ways we don't see in the rest of the series, it reveals their inner drives. Under Mikage's influence, Kozue tries to kiss Miki before drawing out his sword. Earlier than that, she caresses Miki's and seems to be leaning for an embrace while he sleeps. She almost severely injures someone who shows sexual interest in him. She has sex with people in his "sacred places", targets girls who specifically capture his attention, and is deeply jealous of Anthy.

In Miki's second duel, she targets his sexuality again. Recall that scene where she's leaning back in Akio's seat, with her blouse unbuttoned and skirt floating up, making her bedroom eyes at Miki. She distracts his attention by apparently molesting the object of his desires.

Given all this, it's hard to believe that they didn't have a sexual relationship at some point. How did Kozue develop her psychosexual obsession, if not? She's eerily skilled and knowledgable for a thirteen year old girl, after all. Furthermore, she adeptly uses sex as her tool and weapon, especially against her brother.

Besides, it's SKU, and their mutual idealized memories have to hint at something a bit creepier going on. So yes. I definitely feel that if they didn't actually have a sexual relationship, there's at least the desire to have one on Kozue's half. At the very least, their relationship isn't "innocent."


We must go forward, not backward. Upward, not forward. And always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.

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#6 | Back to Top10-25-2008 03:22:13 PM

Bluesky
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Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

The scene in the movie with them both sitting in the bathtub seemed to hint at it, but then again...that was the movie.


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#7 | Back to Top10-25-2008 11:37:03 PM

phul
Wakaba Wrangler
From: Seoul
Registered: 10-14-2008
Posts: 12

Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

Katzenklavier wrote:

In Miki's second duel, she targets his sexuality again. Recall that scene where she's leaning back in Akio's seat, with her blouse unbuttoned and skirt floating up, making her bedroom eyes at Miki. She distracts his attention by apparently molesting the object of his desires.

I always thought this was weird.  Wouldn't anybody be distracted if they saw their (straight?) sister leaning over to kiss another girl, regardless of whether or not they were attracted to the girl being kissed?

While Kozue shows signs of being perhaps molested as a child, I don't really think Miki shows any indication that he's sexually experienced.  The awkwardness of their relationship seems more based on how Miki reacts to Kozue's overtly sexual behavior rather than any sexual urges he has towards her.

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#8 | Back to Top10-31-2008 04:50:41 PM

omg_fandom
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From: Ft. Lewis Washington
Registered: 11-02-2007
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Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

i've never read the manga (aside from the movie manga, which i kind of regret spending 30$ on - Damn you Suncoast Online!) so i cant say anything on that, but in the show i really dont see the "sexual relationship".  True, Kozue totally wants her some hot Miki, but I have a really hard time seeing Miki being sexual with anyone, much less his own sister.  I just get the feeling that he'd feel guilty about it


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#9 | Back to Top10-31-2008 06:11:18 PM

Duelist Megu
Ruthless Deflorist
From: Calgary, AB
Registered: 12-07-2007
Posts: 303
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Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

phul wrote:

Katzenklavier wrote:

In Miki's second duel, she targets his sexuality again. Recall that scene where she's leaning back in Akio's seat, with her blouse unbuttoned and skirt floating up, making her bedroom eyes at Miki. She distracts his attention by apparently molesting the object of his desires.

I always thought this was weird.  Wouldn't anybody be distracted if they saw their (straight?) sister leaning over to kiss another girl, regardless of whether or not they were attracted to the girl being kissed?

Phul's argument here is also the one I would make.  I got the impression more that he was distracted thinking, "Wait, what the fuck is she trying over there?" than anything else.  I mean, wouldn't it distract you?

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#10 | Back to Top11-01-2008 07:28:14 AM

Kashira
Rose Smilee
From: UK
Registered: 08-30-2007
Posts: 136

Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

Katzenklavier wrote:

In Miki's second duel, she targets his sexuality again. Recall that scene where she's leaning back in Akio's seat, with her blouse unbuttoned and skirt floating up, making her bedroom eyes at Miki. She distracts his attention by apparently molesting the object of his desires.

I would have agreed with you there, but the way you describe it you make it sound like she's doing an Akio impression. (I haven't seen it in a while so...)

phul wrote:

I always thought this was weird.  Wouldn't anybody be distracted if they saw their (straight?) sister leaning over to kiss another girl, regardless of whether or not they were attracted to the girl being kissed?

Straight? This is SKU we're talking about right? "Everyone's bi, except for Juri (she's lesbian)." emot-tongue


Akio: See, we big brothers are like the moon. We're spherical, and control the tides, and make aliens turn into giant apes on occasion. Also, we're sexy. -Utena Thumbnail Theater

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#11 | Back to Top11-01-2008 07:36:34 AM

Stormcrow
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From: Los Angeles
Registered: 04-24-2007
Posts: 5971
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Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

Just thought I'd weigh in here. While I don't think there is any actual text in the show that Miki and Kozue have had sex in the past, the subtext supporting that Kozue at least sexualizes their relationship is pretty strong. For one thing, Kozue doesn't seem to know how else to relate to people. You ever notice how if she's not trying to have sex with someone she's pretty cold? Also, all of Katz's points are well put.

What troubles me about Miki's second duel is Kozue's motivation. Why would she want Miki to lose? And yet it seems that she was trying to screw him up, taunting him...is it possible that she was actually after Anthy's power herself and saw an easier way to get to it? Or that she was simply trying to turn Miki on, to see her as more of a sexual object? Because if her intent was just to screw him up, why did she call him a coward later? That's the one and only moment in the show where she shows any overt hostility toward Miki. emot-confused


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#12 | Back to Top11-02-2008 03:50:09 PM

hollow_rose
Egghead
From: Ohio
Registered: 10-26-2008
Posts: 1074

Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

I think in general Kozue is a very sexual person, it's how she expresses things the easiest. I don't think they have actually had sex in the anime but I think because Kozue is so oversexualized any affection she has for anyone has a sexual tone, even if she doesn't act on it. There are some odd vibes, though, particularly in the movie. Certainly she is quite possessive, in all the versions (but oddly somehow the least in the anime). In the anime she seems more protective than anything else, but like lots of things in the series whether or not they've actually fooled around is left up to the interpretation of the individual viewer.  And views can be skewed depending on which version you are discussing; (SMALL SPOILER FOR MOVIE BELOW)

Certainly the bath scene looks much more sexual than either the anime or the manga.


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#13 | Back to Top11-06-2008 11:04:18 AM

kodaly
New Student
Registered: 11-05-2008
Posts: 6

Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

I must say I tend to find the theory that Kozue was sexually abused as a child (and considering her age, last week would qualify, so it doesn't really need to be all that long ago) the most fitting.  Hypersexuality such as hers is often a symptom of childhood sexual abuse, as is the tendency to sexualize any loving relationships.  Victims of sexual abuse often confuse sex with love, all kinds of love, whether it is romantic or familial, because the person who abused them was usually a family member who professed to love them and that this was how to express it.  The child thinks that the only way to love someone is sexually.  Granted, we don't get any canon evidence that Kozue was sexually abused by any family member, but her cold, downright angry reaction to mommy and daddy (as well as the divorce itself) could suggest that one of them did it and she blames the other -- probably both for the abuse and for separating her from the abusing parent.  (I just re-read that.  I certainly don't want to imply that all children who are pissed at divorcing parents got diddled.  There are lots of reasons to be that snitty with divorcing parents.  Abuse is just one possible).  The other piece of evidence that supports the Kozue was abused theory is that when someone tries to start the same kind of abusive relationship with her brother (the oh-so-lovely piano teacher) she recognizes it immediately, although Miki himself does not, and goes ape-shit.  Her reaction to that teacher is far beyond and far different from her reaction to Anthy or any other girl aiming for Miki's attentions.

So why isn't Miki the same way?  He probably escaped the abuse.  That's usually how it works.  In fact, he was probably beyond sheltered and even encouraged to be asexual by the same parent who hurt his sister.  Most 13 year old boys are a bit unsure and confused.  They aren't as impossibly clueless as Miki is.

That's my two cents.  Make of it what you will.

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#14 | Back to Top11-06-2008 11:38:09 AM

Stormcrow
Magical Flying Moron
From: Los Angeles
Registered: 04-24-2007
Posts: 5971
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Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

Kozue as an abuse victim does indeed make a great deal of sense. Not an interpretation that I'm wild about, I have to say, but probably the most plausible explanation of the way she has no close relationships that aren't sexual to her. I am going to stand by Miki as an exaggeratedly oblivious 13-year-old for the sake of gags and drama though, rather than trying to find causes. It's just too convenient otherwise.

I'd even try to posit the theory that it was sexual interaction with Miki that caused this kind of attitude in Kozue, but research suggests that sexual interaction between children is often harmless if the children are close to the same age and no coercion is involved. And I just can't see Miki getting pushy. emot-tongue

...on the other hand, Miki abusing Kozue as a child would certainly make the subtext of their relationship a lot darker, which I know appeals to many of you. emot-wink


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#15 | Back to Top11-06-2008 04:12:51 PM

Razara
Marionette Mistress
From: Wuzzy Happy Akio Town (What?)
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 4694

Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

I know there was a description of a fanfiction somewhere on fanficition.net that brought up that theory, and I'm kind of surprised that it's not more widely accepted here. The portrayal of Miki and Kozue's relationship in such a way that their possible feelings for each other spawned solely from their closeness as twins always comes off as complete bullshit to me. While I can image Ikuhara making such an assumption, over all, it's just not the most realistic theory. The close connection that singleton authors of twincest write about do exist, but the mistake is assuming that such close connection can result in sexual attraction.

The difference in bodies probably wasn't a big shock that they came across at a young age. Even in America, parents of fraternal twins usually don't go to the trouble of ensuring that their twins of opposite genders bathe separately. I was still taking bathes with my sister when I was in first grade, and there was nothing sexual about it.

I'd rather believe that this is not the case, but it does seem very likely that Kozue was molested by her father. What we see of her father doesn't give us much reason to assume that he wouldn't. Even when she was crying out for her brother, he dragged her away to preform against her will. If sexual feelings towards her brother do exist, then being abused by her father not only could have caused her early interest in sex, but also her reasoning for thinking she should be sexual with another family member, namely, Miki. Having been abused might also make him be the only person she feels she can be close to and safe with.

I'm not sure if this applies to fraternal twins, but I was talking with a girl who was reading a book about twins, and apparently the main idea of the book was that what makes have different personalities is caused by secrets kept between the two. Molestation is a very big secret to keep, and one that can greatly change a person's way of thinking.

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#16 | Back to Top11-06-2008 10:03:13 PM

J-Syxx
Banned
Registered: 04-25-2007
Posts: 102

Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

Straight? This is SKU we're talking about right? "Everyone's bi, except for Juri (she's lesbian)." emot-tongue

What about when she hits on Miki in the movie? XD  I wonder if everone being bi was part of Ikuhara's theme of duality.

Last edited by J-Syxx (11-06-2008 10:04:02 PM)

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#17 | Back to Top11-06-2008 10:18:00 PM

hollow_rose
Egghead
From: Ohio
Registered: 10-26-2008
Posts: 1074

Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

J-Syxx wrote:

Straight? This is SKU we're talking about right? "Everyone's bi, except for Juri (she's lesbian)." emot-tongue

What about when she hits on Miki in the movie? XD  I wonder if everone being bi was part of Ikuhara's theme of duality.

And she seems so pissed at Ruka when he comes back, even before he goes after Shiori.

I wonder, too. Ikuhara loves to do things like that.


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#18 | Back to Top11-06-2008 11:14:14 PM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6018
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Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

Razara wrote:

I know there was a description of a fanfiction somewhere on fanficition.net that brought up that theory, and I'm kind of surprised that it's not more widely accepted here.

The reason I've never espoused this theory any more than the theory that she was sexually abused by her mother, piano teacher, dog, mailman, or anything else is because when I analyzed, I assume that everything I need to make a judgment about a character is already shown.

Wait, I'm sounding flippant, aren't I? Razzie, you know I'm not being flippant. But I can't find a better way to put it. I assume that if there was another meaningful interaction that had repercussions on Kozue's psyche, they would have given us a clue about it. As it is, we see a lot of her and Miki, and none of her and her father, so I tend to follow where that leads instead of drawing conclusions from her mental instabilities. It's not that I don't think it happened or do think it happened-- it's more that I'm not shown and so it's a possibility, but that's not what the show leads toward. Gio feels much the same way about it-- we go from what's shown, not from speculation (unless otherwise noted).


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#19 | Back to Top11-07-2008 06:17:05 PM

Kashira
Rose Smilee
From: UK
Registered: 08-30-2007
Posts: 136

Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

J-Syxx wrote:

Straight? This is SKU we're talking about right? "Everyone's bi, except for Juri (she's lesbian)." emot-tongue

What about when she hits on Miki in the movie? XD  I wonder if everone being bi was part of Ikuhara's theme of duality.

...does she? I guess I forgot that.

Then it is the movie. It might be a case of Juri "in name only" god knows Makio was a victim of this.

Yasha wrote:

I assume that everything I need to make a judgment about a character is already shown.

Well you'd have to assume that, otherwise you'll just spend your time inventing more and more implausible possibilities... and that way madness lies. emot-gonk

...and maybe the whole Kozue thing is much simpler than everyone is making it ... maybe she's just a horny narcissist?

"My twin is almost as sexy as me!"

I mean she is a teenager right? And if there's one thing that most teenagers have in common it's being oversexed.


Akio: See, we big brothers are like the moon. We're spherical, and control the tides, and make aliens turn into giant apes on occasion. Also, we're sexy. -Utena Thumbnail Theater

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#20 | Back to Top11-08-2008 01:42:20 PM

hollow_rose
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From: Ohio
Registered: 10-26-2008
Posts: 1074

Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

Maybe she is somehow trying to rebel, and set herself apart from her brother. Twins sometimes do have those sorts of identity problems. Miki is very straight laced. Maybe she decided to be so sexually active to set herself and her identity apart from him. When you think about it he is a pretty tough act to follow, as smart as he is and a genius at piano too. She could pick up something and try to excel in it to set herself apart, but because he is so good at everything seemingly perhaps that was just to daunting for her. It was easier for her to be the "bad" girl to set herself apart from him.


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#21 | Back to Top11-08-2008 02:56:57 PM

J-Syxx
Banned
Registered: 04-25-2007
Posts: 102

Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

Kashira wrote:

J-Syxx wrote:

Straight? This is SKU we're talking about right? "Everyone's bi, except for Juri (she's lesbian)." emot-tongue

What about when she hits on Miki in the movie? XD  I wonder if everone being bi was part of Ikuhara's theme of duality.

...does she? I guess I forgot that.

Then it is the movie. It might be a case of Juri "in name only" god knows Makio was a victim of this.

I assume you mean Akio, since I have no idea who Makio is.  XD  I've always interpreted the movie version Akio to be emasculated.  This explains the not so pleasant imagery of what happened to the phalus symbol in his tower.  I'm one of those people who sees the movie version as a quasi-sequel to the tv show, so this emasculation probably metaphorically occurred due to Anthy's actions in the last episode.  lol

Last edited by J-Syxx (11-08-2008 03:03:16 PM)

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#22 | Back to Top11-08-2008 03:37:04 PM

Lightice
Azure Paleontologist
From: Finland
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 1255

Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

J-Syxx wrote:

I assume you mean Akio, since I have no idea who Makio is.

Makio is short for Movie Akio. emot-wink


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#23 | Back to Top11-10-2008 03:19:05 PM

End of the Tour
Ballgoer
From: The Nowhere Islands
Registered: 09-11-2008
Posts: 143

Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

hollow_rose wrote:

Maybe she decided to be so sexually active to set herself and her identity apart from him. When you think about it he is a pretty tough act to follow, as smart as he is and a genius at piano too. She could pick up something and try to excel in it to set herself apart, but because he is so good at everything seemingly perhaps that was just to daunting for her. It was easier for her to be the "bad" girl to set herself apart from him.

That sounds very plausible to me, especially since she had the shameful solo piano experience so young.  When the only model of what to be (in this case, Miki's equally perfect sister) is something you can't manage, it's easy to embrace something a bit more "wild animal"-esque instead.

Lightice wrote:

Makio is short for Movie Akio. emot-wink

And here I thought it was Mock Akio.


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#24 | Back to Top11-12-2008 12:36:45 PM

rhyaniwyn
Myth is my Bitch
From: Tallahassee, FL
Registered: 11-09-2006
Posts: 684
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Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

I believe that Kozue is definitely trying set herself apart from Miki.  There are undertones of a similar sort of tension between her as between Shiori and Juri (it's less Juri's love for Shiori and more Shiori's jealousy of Juri that causes problems between them).  There are also undertones of a similar sort of possessiveness, a reliance on Miki to define part of her identity, between Kozue and Miki as between Nanami and Touga.

The difference between Shiori and Kozue is that Kozue is more...I'll use the word "stubborn".  Shiori attempts to take her destiny in her own hands and reshape her life, but most of her attempts ultimately end up making her feel like a bad person and a failure.  While Kozue does see herself as impure in comparison to Miki, she meets that feeling with defiance rather than shame.

The difference between Nanami and Kozue is that Kozue is deliberately becoming an adult.  That is what sex is most often about in Utena, not about love or desire; rather, about power.  Kozue is highly sexualized and that shows up even in her relationship with her brother because she is possessive of Miki.  While Nanami is as idealistic as Miki about sex and siblings.

Take what Kozue says herself...

Kozue wrote:

It came out that I couldn't do anything by myself.
girl:  Your brother is so cool, though.
He sure is.

The infamous piano concert.  The reason I say that Kozue has less reliance on Miki for her identity than Nanami (or in a reverse fashion) is that Kozue was playing the piano for her own reasons, even then, and was well aware of it.  But when Kozue talks about it, she attributes all the positives to Miki--talent for piano, interest in piano.  Kozue says she learned that she couldn't do anything by herself--and from what we see of her personality, she most certainly chose to do something about it--become an adult.

Kozue wrote:

Girl:  Hey, Kozue... You've changed boyfriends again?
I haven't changed boyfriends... I've added one.
Girl:  Oh, the things you say! You lucky girl!
Work at it yourself, you guys.

A quote that supports my point above.  Kozue first flouts her sexuality and her dismissal of conservative public mores and romantic ideals, then she gives the advice, "work at it yourself" -- just as Kozue herself resolved to do at a certain point in her life.

Kozue wrote:

I will never forgive anyone who disgraces Miki

Kozue definitely has protective feelings toward her brother -- the above quote she says to Juri about the paino teacher.  I believe these protective feelings are based on the fact that they are siblings...but also based on the fact that Kozue feels her brother is a "better" person than she is.  She scorns him a little for his innocence (thus that accusation of Miki being a "Coward" when she acts as his Rose Bride), but she also envies it a little.

Kozue wrote:

Why would I drink something so sweet?

Kozue wrote:

I am nothing at all like Miki.

Kozue wrote:

After all, we're wild animals.

Kozue resolved long ago to become herself, not Miki.  Now while that means, on one hand she doesn't feel that she can live up to Miki's standards, Kozue meets that idea with the defiance I mentioned before.   She is not a sweet person like Miki, fine, she will be a "wild animal."  She is nothing at all like Miki.

Kozue wrote:

Miki is my twin brother.
Since we were very little, he has treated me very fondly.
Lately, even though he pretends there's nothing wrong,
...if something happens to sully me, he acts outwardly as if everything's okay.
But in his heart, he's hurt and he obsesses over me.
That's why I purposely go out with people that I know Miki would hate.
However...
Souji:  Deeper. Go deeper.
But, Miki's attention is gradually going to that other woman.
It's going away from me.

That doesn't mean Kozue hates Miki or wants to remove him from her life.  No, there's an attraction and repulsion there.  Kozue defines herself as something of an anti-Miki.  If Miki weren't there, she would have less to rebel against.  To some degree, Miki is a measuring stick for what Kozue won't be.  That's why they aren't as close in the series as they evidently were in childhood--Kozue has to have space and her own world to form her own identity.  But that also doesn't mean that the old closeness is completely gone--Kozue still cherishes her brother and likes having his attention.

Kozue wrote:

My my, brother mine, are you worried about me?

Her tone here is fun.  She likes Miki's attention and worry, but she also finds it silly, like Kozue finds many things about Miki silly.

Kozue wrote:

This is Miki's brilliance

Kozue genuinely thinks her brother is brilliant; she admires him.

Kozue wrote:

You don't have to be so bashful.
If she's so important to you, then make her yours.

This quote is almost identical to one Touga said to Miki episodes earlier.  They've both been hanging around Akio and probably were fed the line, but it also draws a parallel between their characters.  Both Touga and Kozue want to be adults and have the power to take the things they want.  They both treat Miki like a child--someone naive and cherished that needs protection from his own innocence.  I'd say Touga has less appreciation for Miki's innocence than Kozue does, however--Touga professes to find it "cute," but never hesitates to challenge Miki's assumptions.  Kozue seems to me to be torn between scorn and the need to protect Miki.

Kozue wrote:

What I want is for you to be happy.
Miki:  What're you talking about, all of a sudden?
I'm always honest with my feelings. That's all.
I don't lie.

I think this speaks about how Kozue views herself.  She is rejecting lies, like in the end theme "Truth."  Kozue is rejecting the illusions of childhood, rejecting the idea of lying to herself to preserve a rose-colored worldview (like Miki does about their parents and Kozue does not), and rejects the idea of bothering to tell a lie.  Although she does try alternately try to protect Miki, she also doesn't hold back her own feelings even when those feelings are truths that Miki doesn't want to hear.

Kozue wrote:

If everything around you is dirty, don't you have no choice but to get dirty too?
You've got no choice but to get dirty and then get what you want.

This might as well be Kozue's motto.  I could basically repeat the things I've said above.  :-) 

Note that in the car with Anthy, Kozue says that she has heard the engaged receives powers and that she wants Anthy to show Kozue those powers.  Kozue has a bit of an obsession with power and with having it so that she will never again feel like she did in the first quote (as if she can't do anything by herself).  I feel that scenario in the car had little to do with Miki and everything to do with Kozue's infatuation with power.  The fact that it distracted Miki was an unfortunate side affect (though one that may have been intended by one or more parties for one or more reasons--such as Kozue proving her power over Miki...and possibly even protecting him from the loss of innocence winning the duels would have necessitated!).


Finally, as a last note...an article about the affects of abuse on one sibling on another, not abused sibling.  http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/99679.php  I think it has some relevant psychological points to a Kozue & Miki as well as Anthy & Akio.  I often invent backstories that are barely hinted at in the series, but I don't take them as fact, simply as shoes that fit.  Whether there was abuse taking place, the psychology of abuse fits Kozue and makes her behavior a coherent picture...it's not necessary to say she was definitely abused by her parents--more that she, like everyone, has been hurt by life and that her reactions match that psychological workup.

Last edited by rhyaniwyn (11-12-2008 12:50:41 PM)


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#25 | Back to Top11-12-2008 05:15:23 PM

End of the Tour
Ballgoer
From: The Nowhere Islands
Registered: 09-11-2008
Posts: 143

Re: Miki/Kozue's sexual relationship?

rhyaniwyn wrote:

Note that in the car with Anthy, Kozue says that she has heard the engaged receives powers and that she wants Anthy to show Kozue those powers.  Kozue has a bit of an obsession with power and with having it so that she will never again feel like she did in the first quote (as if she can't do anything by herself).  I feel that scenario in the car had little to do with Miki and everything to do with Kozue's infatuation with power.  The fact that it distracted Miki was an unfortunate side affect (though one that may have been intended by one or more parties for one or more reasons--such as Kozue proving her power over Miki...and possibly even protecting him from the loss of innocence winning the duels would have necessitated!).

Hmm... I'm not sure if it had little to do with Miki, because this made me think of something.  Prior to her own duel, Kozue is obviously not cool with Miki's increasing interest in Anthy and the possibility that he's losing interest in her, and yet prior to Miki's duel she's telling him to "make her his".  Why?  I doubt she's gotten over her insecurities, but I also don't think she really wanted him to lose, because she seems pretty unhappy about it afterwards.

But what if she'd thought that she wouldn't lose Miki's affection if she helped him win Anthy?  You know, if winning her was a sort of team effort?  And from there it isn't a huge jump to the idea that perhaps they'd share the Rose Bride, especially as she now knows that Anthy really is something to be won and especially in that Kozue is trying to calm her insecurities.  Of course, since it's Kozue, this means taking a sexual view of Anthy, but I think she also might have been trying to test Miki by her antics in the arena-side car.  Kind of "by the way, brother, we'll be sharing this one, and you're ok with that, because of course you weren't looking for someone to take my place, right?".

Which would explain why she's so upset at the end.  It isn't just that Miki lost, and now neither of them get any Rose Bride, it's also that, in losing because of her distraction, he showed (in her estimation, anyway) that he wouldn't be ok with the mental model she'd set up that allowed her to be ok with him getting together with Anthy.  Thus "coward" is short for "I gave you a chance at a happy solution for both of us, and you blew it because you aren't man enough to deal with it".

I'm not 100% committed to this theory just yet, but it does sound plausible.


Sometimes life is about making difficult sandwiches.

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