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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top11-04-2006 01:45:45 PM

Ragnarok
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From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
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"Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

I apologize in advance if this thread doesn't end up having a point. I'm about to ramble on something that's blatantly obvious and which I didn't get until now. I'm putting it here instead of on the wall of a mental institute so that someone else can wander in and say "Well DUH!" or "No, you have it all wrong because..." or anything else one might wish to say. (Besides, padded walls are hard to write on.)

So it took me until today to use my brain and think about where Anthy sealed Dios, just before she was impaled into unending death. The series starts out with lots of imagery indicating Dios is hanging out in the upsidedown castle whenever he's not possessing Utena. Of course the castle is just an illusion, Saionji tells us so in the first episode and I easily forget it. Then Akio finally gives the lowdown on his magic projector which I won't attempt to go into. Which leads up to the question I didn't ask: If the castle's fake, where's Dios?

We see a statue of Dios on top of the world's shell, until that breaks. And we see a door that supposedly leads to the power of Dios. But we only see Dios himself as a ghostly form, easily as much of a mirage as the castle in the sky. And then there's Anthy, telling me where Dios is the whole time and my not paying attention. Anthy says she sealed Dios away forever, in a place no one can reach him. And throughout the series she's able to call out his power from her own body in the shape of a sword. She's also able to power up the sword through contact with it. Juri tells Utena that the student council is dueling to gain miraculous power. If you're the champion of the duels you're engaged to the Rose Bride. If you're engaged to Anthy you have eternity within your grasp. Because Anthy is harbouring that power within her own body.

Akio is what remains of Dios with the latter's nobility removed. But Akio's still walking around, it's not as if he's been sealed away himself. Anthy didn't lock up a physical body to hide it from the demanding public. She didn't want Dios to die by overexerting himself, trying to do more than even he was able to. All she had to take away was his motivation: his nobility. She grabbed up the selfless heroic part of Dios and shoved it into her body. By necessity this pushed the selfless and noble parts of Anthy into a sealed off recess of her heart which she lost access to. That aspect of Anthy resides behind the door Akio believes holds the power of eternity. And yet Anthy does not have direct contact with Dios's nobility either, she can only release it for others to use.

Akio makes a reference to the story of the goose which laid golden eggs. He uses it to talk about Utena, but it can also be applied to Anthy. She tells the townsfolk (or whoever they were) that she's sealed Dios away and, like the couple looking to get all the goose's golden eggs at once, they try to cut her open and get Dios back. In both cases this has the opposite effect. The goose dies, empty of golden eggs and unable to lay anymore; Anthy is put into eternal torment, never to give Dios back to an ungrateful world.

Akio is stuck in a paradox, he wants the power of Dios but he doesn't care about freeing Anthy from her torment. (Or is unable to.) However those two goals are inseperable, Dios can't be free without Anthy's compassion to give him back. Utena wants Anthy to be free and doesn't care about Dios. She succeeds in awakening the dorment side of Anthy's heart and Dios... goes somewhere.

Okay that's enough for now. Is this just obvious stuff I never thought about or am I way off base? I'd be happy to know either way.


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#2 | Back to Top11-04-2006 02:44:50 PM

satyreyes
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From: New Orleans, Louisiana
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Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

Dios is dead.

/nietzsche

If Dios -- the prince -- still existed inside Anthy, the so-called Sword of Dios would be the prince's sword Akio needs to open the coffin and revolutionize the world.  There would be no need for him to mold someone else into a prince so that he could use their sword instead of Dios's.  What Anthy carries within her is the memory of and longing for Dios -- we might even say the ghost of Dios.  (This is also why Dios is said to reside in the castle; he is as illusory as it is.)  Even Saionji knows this intuitively: "That may be the Sword of Dios, but it has no power by itself!  In the end, it must be wielded by a great swordsman."  What power the sword seems to have derives instead from Anthy, and all we see of Dios in the duels is the spirit, the ghost, who "possesses" Utena at the climax.  And that power seems to come from her ring -- that symbol of her own inner prince -- as much as it does from Anthy or the sword.

At least, that's my thought.  But to the extent Dios -- the prince -- exists anywhere, he exists within Anthy.  Dios -- the sack of flesh and blood -- has long since become Akio.

Last edited by satyreyes (11-04-2006 02:46:56 PM)

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#3 | Back to Top11-04-2006 03:46:29 PM

Giovanna
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From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
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Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

satyreyes wrote:

Dios -- the sack of flesh and blood -- has long since become Akio.

For some reason this made me think of the original (still Hebrew, I think) view of hell. No hellfire or demons poking you with a stick, just your own solitude and the death of your soul and the denial of God's light.

At any rate, poppycock on this silliness about it being an obvious thread. There's nothing obvious in Utena! I, for myself, did decide early on that the power was inside Anthy, but I'll take any Freudian sexual reference I can. (Anthy took his 'nobility' into her and kept it? Ouch.) However, I've always brushed over the goose with the golden eggs reference since I did not know they CUT THE GOOSE OPEN. (I suck at the fairy tales and stuff.) You are absolutely right in that this is about a truckload of talking about Anthy, I think I'm going to be rewatching that scene soon to see whether it's deliberate. (Certainly wouldn't be the first time Akio's done that...)

I wonder, you say she sealed him away and so had to seal herself away, but if she was released in the end, what happened to Dios' nobility? Does she continue to keep it somehow, or did it get released and just fizzled out into the atmosphere for being unable to find an appropriate place to hold itself? Did it go into Utena? I'm assuming it doesn't return to Akio since he's still Akio when Anthy leaves, and that's a very poetic point the series makes. Would seem kinda cheap to give him Dios' nobility for free after all that. But then again, Akio wouldn't much like it now.

Also poppycock on this "Even Saionji knows"! Saionji's the one no one pays enough attention to. (Including Saionji.) There's a lot he knows intuitively that the rest of the cast ends up stumbling around and never finding.


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
Chiefest of Calamities

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#4 | Back to Top11-04-2006 04:07:12 PM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 588

Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

FWIW the manga says that Dios is in suspended animation, just a heartbeat away from death. Anthy kept the sword as a token of love, but since Akio had won the sword, Anthy was also completely in his thrall. Akio wanted the sword so he could kill Dios of Light once and for all, hence the games.

Both Utena and Anthy are able to call on his power in different ways and Akio's design is to expoit Anthy's love and Utena's idealism to win final power himself. Basically he talks them both into acceding to him.

Here, at least, the manga makes more sense than the show. One reason why I often prefer Saito's mangas is that they are the work of one person. Part of the problem is that Be-Papas is a committee and it shows.

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#5 | Back to Top11-04-2006 04:43:50 PM

Ragnarok
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Registered: 10-20-2006
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Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

satyreyes wrote:

If Dios -- the prince -- still existed inside Anthy, the so-called Sword of Dios would be the prince's sword Akio needs to open the coffin and revolutionize the world.  There would be no need for him to mold someone else into a prince so that he could use their sword instead of Dios's.

I'm not thinking that Dios as a personality is inside of Anthy. The aspect of him that, combined with what Akio has going on, creates Dios is sealed inside Anthy. The sword of Dios is part of his power, but she doesn't let out the power to revolutionize the world through the sword. It's just a taste. Since Anthy can power up the sword on command, it's clear she doesn't naturally even do that much without being commanded.

Akio could try to regain Dios's power with the sword of Dios, it's possible he tried doing that first. It's a pretty big oversight for him to try other prince's swords without checking if the sword of Dios could solve his problem on the outset. ("Another failure." And all that.) He might have battered on the door with the sword of Dios enough for the sword to shatter, then simply stuck the pieces back into Anthy for them to reform. But it's the intent that matters, not the sword. Utena's sword breaks in Akio's grip, but Utena is able to open the coffin that holds Anthy's heart with her bare hands and determination. Because Akio is trying to get the power of Dios and it's not where he thinks it is.

I do agree with everything else you say, I just don't think it contradicts the former thought.

Giovanna wrote:

I wonder, you say she sealed him away and so had to seal herself away, but if she was released in the end, what happened to Dios' nobility? Does she continue to keep it somehow, or did it get released and just fizzled out into the atmosphere for being unable to find an appropriate place to hold itself? Did it go into Utena? I'm assuming it doesn't return to Akio since he's still Akio when Anthy leaves, and that's a very poetic point the series makes. Would seem kinda cheap to give him Dios' nobility for free after all that. But then again, Akio wouldn't much like it now.

I should rewatch the last episode before tackling this, but going on memory my line of thought is something like:

Utena opens the coffin and reunites the sealed portion of Anthy's heart with the rest of her body. This sticks all of Anthy into her coffin (Ohtori itself, but now able to leave if she chooses) and the swords of hate lose their designated pin cushion. Just before all that, (I think) we see Dios getting up on his horse, facing away from Utena and kind of moseying off. I'm trying to remember... where did the sword of Dios go after Anthy stabs Utena with it? Akio's not holding on to it, is he? Anyway, it's been suggested that Utena has taken Dios's place as The Prince, (which allows her to save Anthy) so it's possible that the power of Dios goes into Utena after she frees Anthy. When Anthy falls away the swords of hate stop and then focus directly on Utena. Judging for Akio's attitude later, he seems to have been completely unscathed by the swords, whereas Utena has vanished from the campus. That seems to me as if Utena took on the power of the prince. Anthy's surity that Utena is out there in the real world, making it likely the swords of hate didn't attempt to kill her. (Utena, that is.)

So, to summarize. Utena either gains the power of Dios or achieves an equal power to Dios on her own. The swords of hate aren't easily quelled, but they are put to rest as a new cycle (or revolution, if you will) in the story of The Prince begins. Akio believes Utena's actions were inconsequential because he still doesn't see the link between Anthy's feelings and Dios's power. At least until Anthy walks out on him.

(As for the manga, I've not read it. But if it makes sense then where's the fun of interpretation? emot-wink)


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#6 | Back to Top11-04-2006 08:16:22 PM

Ger
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Registered: 10-21-2006
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Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

Giovanna wrote:

Also poppycock on this "Even Saionji knows"! Saionji's the one no one pays enough attention to. (Including Saionji.) There's a lot he knows intuitively that the rest of the cast ends up stumbling around and never finding.

Oohhhh yes, amen!

I'm surprised we haven't had a Saionji thread on here yet. I've been thinking I should make one, but for one reason or another never got around to it.

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#7 | Back to Top11-04-2006 11:58:55 PM

ShatteredMirror
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From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 10-22-2006
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Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

I think that Dios died at the end of the series. He was only a hair's breadth from dying when Anthy sealed him away, and Utena's rescuing Anthy and becoming the new Prince allowed him to die, which was the only way he'd ever get any rest. His riding off into the sunset was symbolic of the fact that he was finally able to leave the cycle behind.


Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source.

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#8 | Back to Top11-05-2006 09:10:18 PM

Tamago
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Registered: 10-17-2006
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Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

Giovanna wrote:

Also poppycock on this "Even Saionji knows!" Saionji's the one no one pays enough attention to. (Including Saionji.) There's a lot he knows intuitively that the rest of the cast ends up stumbling around and never finding.

It's funny that while Saionji told Utena that the castle in the sky was just a trick of the light in Ep 1 but wasn't he lured in by the prospect of the same castle coming down in Ep 9?

satyreyes wrote:

Dios is dead.

/nietzsche

Or in this case, a phantom that can only reveal himself to someone or possess their body.  I suspect that the Sword of Dios that Anthy stores inside of her is not Diosís soul so much as a template for the Betrothed Duellist to forge a Princeís sword from.

As for Akio seeking the power of Dios, he does not seek to reunite with the essence of Dios as he no longer wants to be Dios, he just wants the power that he resides in the Rose Seal because in the end, all those with power seek even more power.


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#9 | Back to Top11-08-2006 04:12:08 AM

Xu Yuan
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 189

Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

Ragnarok wrote:

If Dios -- the prince -- still existed inside Anthy, the so-called Sword of Dios would be the prince's sword Akio needs to open the coffin and revolutionize the world.  There would be no need for him to mold someone else into a prince so that he could use their sword instead of Dios's.

I'm not thinking that Dios as a personality is inside of Anthy. The aspect of him that, combined with what Akio has going on, creates Dios is sealed inside Anthy. The sword of Dios is part of his power, but she doesn't let out the power to revolutionize the world through the sword. It's just a taste. Since Anthy can power up the sword on command, it's clear she doesn't naturally even do that much without being commanded.

Akio could try to regain Dios's power with the sword of Dios, it's possible he tried doing that first. It's a pretty big oversight for him to try other prince's swords without checking if the sword of Dios could solve his problem on the outset. ("Another failure." And all that.) He might have battered on the door with the sword of Dios enough for the sword to shatter, then simply stuck the pieces back into Anthy for them to reform. But it's the intent that matters, not the sword. Utena's sword breaks in Akio's grip, but Utena is able to open the coffin that holds Anthy's heart with her bare hands and determination. Because Akio is trying to get the power of Dios and it's not where he thinks it is.

I do agree with everything else you say, I just don't think it contradicts the former thought.

Akio would never have the heart to open the door with the Sword of Dios as the swords of hate would come rushing at him. As he says himself, "She takes the sword of the Prince and bears the hate of humanities milllion swords..." Or something... to my poor dub's effect. That's the primary purpose of forging a Prince's Sword. Oy.. sorry about the screwed up quote, I just woke up.


Please check out the MTG Utena Set Progress we have made at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?id=o … 103070805#

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#10 | Back to Top11-08-2006 01:27:49 PM

ZSPACE
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Registered: 10-16-2006
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Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

Anthy turned into a twiksted, new Dios when she sealed him inside her. Anthy is the prince who brings about the real revolution (Read the Analysis essays). Anthy only has/had the real power to end the duels and show Akio for what he ( and everyone else) really is. The power sleeps wihtin her and she shows it little by little and at the end she brings about the true revolution and wakes the world up.

Last edited by ZSPACE (11-08-2006 01:29:47 PM)

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#11 | Back to Top11-08-2006 03:28:05 PM

Ragnarok
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From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
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Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

Xu Yuan wrote:

Akio would never have the heart to open the door with the Sword of Dios as the swords of hate would come rushing at him. As he says himself, "She takes the sword of the Prince and bears the hate of humanities milllion swords..." Or something... to my poor dub's effect. That's the primary purpose of forging a Prince's Sword. Oy.. sorry about the screwed up quote, I just woke up.

Oh yes! I forgot that Anthy's holding the sword of Dios while she gets impaled. That's where it went. emot-redface

Akio is trying to open the door with Utena's sword, though. The swords of hate don't care about what else is happening as long as they've got Anthy to stab. Akio believes Utena's soul sword may be the key to unlocking the power of Dios, which is his goal. He doesn't realize that (theoretically) the power of Dios and Anthy's sealed heart are linked and one can't be had without the other. When Utena's sword breaks he gives up and has himself a drink, but that wasn't his goal. He chalks it up to another failure and maybe next time will be the lucky number. Then Utena goes and shows him how it's done.


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#12 | Back to Top11-08-2006 05:28:32 PM

Xu Yuan
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 189

Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

Hmm... though he does seem to know what lies beyond the gate as hinted at by "Don't you know what will appen if you open that! Stop!" or soemthing to that affect. It's not anger that fuel's his voice but fear. He knew what lied beyond there. Perhap's once upon a time he did open the gate with Utena's method. Only to flee from the swords and leaving Anthy alone in her coffin. It has become so ritualistic that he no longer cares about his sister's pain. Therefore no reason to shed any tears... or at least that's what I believe.


Please check out the MTG Utena Set Progress we have made at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?id=o … 103070805#

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#13 | Back to Top11-08-2006 06:37:43 PM

Ragnarok
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Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

Oh he's defintely not pleased when he looks up to see Utena pulling open Anthy's casket. There's a huge change in his attitude when the gate to Dios turns into the casket of Anthy. If he thought there was a chance of Utena doing what she did, he wouldn't even have let her try. She was in no state to stop him if he dragged her away.


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#14 | Back to Top11-10-2006 08:33:23 PM

rhyaniwyn
Myth is my Bitch
From: Tallahassee, FL
Registered: 11-09-2006
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Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

Akio's a manipulative genius, but we can't assume he knew exactly what was going on with the  Power after it left him.  I think the key is to go back...

Dios was a Prince who saved all the girls of the world whenever they needed a Prince.  He  had a sister who was stuck in limbo, as she was his sister he couldn't be her Prince.  She  had no one to rescue her.  Eventually all this constant rescuing makes Dios exhausted  (why?).  His sister tells him she'll take care of him and goes outside to face the world and  tells them that she is not going to let Dios out.  It's noteable to me that humanity had  become an angry mob even before this point.  The enraged crowd stabs her "to death."  When  Dios sees what they have done, he is grief-striken that his sister has sacrificed herself  for him.  He loses any desire to help humanity and becomes Akio.

I think that's the play-by-play.  But this being such a multi-layered story...  They are  brother and sister, if one is a type of god, then presumably the other is too.  I know many  people are opposed to mixing storylines, but this fits with what my interpretation has  always been. 

Some, at least, of Dios's power (as in the movie)--maybe even the most important part--came  from Anthy.  Anthy presumably needed someone, a Prince, and since her brother couldn't be  it, she began to resent him and humanity.  Her power stopped supporting his.  His duties  became exhausting rather than easy.  Out of both concern and selfishness, she "locks him  away" by telling humanity that she's not going to let him out.  We know he's sick, but they  probably don't.  They label her a witch and stab her.  She's a goddess, so she can't die.   The look on her face shows she didn't expect it.  She, too, loses any faith in humanity.   This and her now-eternal torment as "the witch", being constantly impaled, cause her  deliberately lock away most of herself, in order to truly become the witch she is called.

So what they call "The Power of Dios" and what Akio wants back is the combined power and the  godhead that both of the siblings lost on that fateful day.  The thing is, he can't have the  power without Anthy's support.  If she doesn't believe in him as a Prince, and love him as a  Prince, he can't have the Prince's power.  He believes, or wants to believe, however, that  he can have the power without being the ideal and without making Anthy whole.  He believes  he can take it by force...symbolized by his use of a sword to open the doors as opposed  to...say...a key?

Now, let me say here that I think it's likely that humanity would have attacked Dios as well  had he come out and been unable to meet their demands (which he would have been unable to  do).  I think that's why part of the "curse" of the Rose Bride is to take the swords of  hatred in place of the Prince.  I think the swords hate both of them.

I also always felt that Dios in the series is basically the "ghost" of Dios.  I think he  tends to act in Anthy's favor, but since I believe the siblings' duties and powers as gods  were symbiotic, he is connected to both.  (I think also that the same Sword of Dios could  have been drawn from either sibling.)  But he's really just a shadow, a shadow of Dios the  last moment he existed.  He's bitter and disillusioned, and he also doesn't believe that  anything can change for the better.  He's more of a metaphor than a character, the  embodiment of a memory, of "what Dios would say"...  But I don't think he's completely "an  illusion."

Since I tend to view the story of the siblings' as a myth, I don't think time is static (and  obviously time is often very weird in the series).  I think "shadow" of Dios at the moment  of his death that brought Utena to Anthy at the moment of her most intense despair.  Utena's  despair echoed Anthy's at the moment of the fall.  No one may have "acted" per se, but I  believe that's the moment Utena saw.  I don't think the intent at that moment was to inspire  Utena with a desire to become a Prince.  I think they wanted to show this self-centered  human an eternal suffering worse than her own, and perhaps subconsciously to set in motion  events that might lead to Anthy's rescue.  And to Akio's own redemption--had he chosen it.

I definately believe that, for the most part, the shadow of Dios, Akio, and Anthy all know  everything each of them knows individually.  So why doesn't Akio "know" that he can't take  back the power with his schemes?  Anthy answers us when she leaves him--he's deceiving  himself.  She had been buying into the self-deception while in her coffin as well, but now  that she has been "saved", she sees clearly.

So, yes, I believe the power of Dios sleeps inside Anthy.  Whoever she loves and believes in  as a Prince will become the Prince.

Akio fails to open the doors (multiple times) with the Prince's sword because the Prince's  sword will never open the door.  He doesn't really understand what the door is or what it  will take to free the Power--because he doens't want to believe it.  He wants to think that  there's a loophole.  He knows what the *coffin* holds, by virtue of what he and Anthy are  and because Anthy knows.

Utena doesn't know anything--she just wants to keep trying to save Anthy.  Her intense and  sincere desire and the genuine tears she sheds for love of Anthy enable her to open the  door.  She becomes essentially a Prince at that moment of her own merit.  I believe it's  possible she came into possession of the Power at the moment the doors open and uses it to  "meet" the "real" Anthy in order to talk to her.

But the real way she "saves" Anthy isn't by heroic and Princely acts or using the Power to  revolutionize her.  She does it by believing in Anthy no matter what--by being Anthy's  friend.  She inspires Anthy to leave.  It wasn't the act of opening the coffin that let  Anthy out, she could have chosen to stay--it was Utena not giving up.  The fact that Anthy  began to believe in Utena, and reached out.  That shows that Anthy has been literally  transformed inside.  A revolution DOES occur for Anthy, and for others touched by Utena  (even if they don't remember her).

However, gratification is not part of Utena's fate, and she doesn't even realize what she's done.  She isn't perfect, and she still thinks that the only way to save Anthy is by playing the active Prince saving the passive Princess.  The sight of Anthy falling makes Utena think she's failed.

I do think that Utena became a Prince, and I think it's highly likely the swords did attack  her for that reason.  I really can't interpret that last shot of her any other way.  Her  self-loathing at that point, as well, may mean that she will fall into the same sort of  limbo that Anthy was in.  I think Utena may well take Anthy's place as pincushion, even if she doesn't fall into the same despair.

Anthy then leaves Ohtori, because Utena has inspired her enough to do so, and goes seeking  Utena.  I think that Anthy may have to rescue Utena the same way that Utena rescued her.   That's what friendship is all about.  I don't necessarily think that she will have to become  a "Prince" to do it--she will be princely in her sincere desire to save Utena, and by virtue  of the fact that she WILL (I believe this strongly) rescue Utena.

Um, sorry, once I got started I couldn't stop...


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#15 | Back to Top11-11-2006 04:10:25 PM

Ragnarok
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From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
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Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

rhyaniwyn wrote:

Um, sorry, once I got started I couldn't stop...

You're not the only one around here who does that. I sure hope it's not a bad thing. emot-redface

rhyaniwyn wrote:

Dios was a Prince who saved all the girls of the world whenever they needed a Prince.  He  had a sister who was stuck in limbo, as she was his sister he couldn't be her Prince.  She  had no one to rescue her.  Eventually all this constant rescuing makes Dios exhausted  (why?).  His sister tells him she'll take care of him and goes outside to face the world and  tells them that she is not going to let Dios out.  It's noteable to me that humanity had  become an angry mob even before this point.  The enraged crowd stabs her "to death."  When  Dios sees what they have done, he is grief-striken that his sister has sacrificed herself  for him.  He loses any desire to help humanity and becomes Akio.

rhyaniwyn wrote:

Some, at least, of Dios's power (as in the movie)--maybe even the most important part--came  from Anthy.  Anthy presumably needed someone, a Prince, and since her brother couldn't be  it, she began to resent him and humanity.  Her power stopped supporting his.  His duties  became exhausting rather than easy.  Out of both concern and selfishness, she "locks him  away" by telling humanity that she's not going to let him out.  We know he's sick, but they  probably don't.  They label her a witch and stab her.  She's a goddess, so she can't die.   The look on her face shows she didn't expect it.  She, too, loses any faith in humanity.   This and her now-eternal torment as "the witch", being constantly impaled, cause her  deliberately lock away most of herself, in order to truly become the witch she is called.

If, even before Dios became Akio, Anthy was the source of some of Dios's power, it makes sense that Dios would eventually become exhausted as Anthy would care less and less about his saving the princesses of the world as she knows he can't do the same for her. She'd lend him less power until finally shutting him off completely, just before she's stabbed by the mob.

It's an interestng way of looking at it.


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#16 | Back to Top01-12-2009 12:38:26 AM

Coco Melancholy
Framed Landscaper
Registered: 06-04-2007
Posts: 415

Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

Ragnarok wrote:

Xu Yuan wrote:

Akio would never have the heart to open the door with the Sword of Dios as the swords of hate would come rushing at him. As he says himself, "She takes the sword of the Prince and bears the hate of humanities milllion swords..." Or something... to my poor dub's effect. That's the primary purpose of forging a Prince's Sword. Oy.. sorry about the screwed up quote, I just woke up.

Oh yes! I forgot that Anthy's holding the sword of Dios while she gets impaled. That's where it went. emot-redface

Akio is trying to open the door with Utena's sword, though. The swords of hate don't care about what else is happening as long as they've got Anthy to stab. Akio believes Utena's soul sword may be the key to unlocking the power of Dios, which is his goal. He doesn't realize that (theoretically) the power of Dios and Anthy's sealed heart are linked and one can't be had without the other. When Utena's sword breaks he gives up and has himself a drink, but that wasn't his goal. He chalks it up to another failure and maybe next time will be the lucky number. Then Utena goes and shows him how it's done.

I *beep* love you. It all makes sense now.

I mean I had been thinking about what exactly *sealed* away meant not long ago, and how specifically Anthy done it:

Coco Melancholy wrote:

then she done the unthinkable, she sealed he's soul sword inside herself, she told herself she didn't need a heart, as long as she had he's.

It was his nobility, his purity that was his true weapon against injustice.

The prince was inflamed with rage, all that was left of he's original self was the sword of he's soul which she had drawn from him that day, and sealed within herself, the soul that possessed it forever lurking wherever she roamed. The empty husk grew a new soul, a angry bitter soul, and that angry bitter soul turned the body of her beautiful Dios, into an angry bitter man.

I think it's Akio that makes me stop to wonder a bit more and I'm defintely going to ponder on some of the comments made here.

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#17 | Back to Top01-12-2009 06:42:34 PM

Ragnarok
Caption Captor
From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4472
Website

Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

Coco Melancholy wrote:

then she done the unthinkable, she sealed he's soul sword inside herself, she told herself she didn't need a heart, as long as she had he's.

It was his nobility, his purity that was his true weapon against injustice.

The prince was inflamed with rage, all that was left of he's original self was the sword of he's soul which she had drawn from him that day, and sealed within herself, the soul that possessed it forever lurking wherever she roamed. The empty husk grew a new soul, a angry bitter soul, and that angry bitter soul turned the body of her beautiful Dios, into an angry bitter man.

You know, with castration anxiety like that it's no surprise how large he made his tower...

Glad you like the thread, though it's funny that after two years and two months I confused myself again in the Swords of Hate thread.

Last edited by Ragnarok (01-12-2009 06:44:06 PM)


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#18 | Back to Top01-13-2009 05:24:47 PM

Riri-kins
World's End
From: Cloud Nine
Registered: 09-22-2008
Posts: 2346

Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

I think Dios is weakly omnipresent. He posesses only those he deems worthy so he doesn't completely fade.


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#19 | Back to Top01-15-2009 01:58:44 PM

StarlightArcher
Miki Molester
From: Texas
Registered: 12-06-2006
Posts: 30

Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

I would have to say I agree with the idea of Anthy sealing away part of herself [into the coffin] when she sealed Dios' power away. As can be seen in real live relationships, often people become so scared by their experiences, they push their true nature into the background, put on their emotional armor and try not to look back.

This can be seen in many of the cast. Juri pretends not to care, Saonji pretends he's not an emo-kid, Wakaba pretends she's ok being the wingman, etc. Considering the frustration and pain of Anthy's eternal torment [both from fellow students & her brother], it's no wonder she's got part of her heart locked up. For anyone who's done something even remotely similar with a part of their soul, they know how it feels to be beset to open up. Akio is after the power of Dios. I agree that he's looking for the loophole. He doesn't want the prince's office hours, but he still wants to be one. Anthy provides a receptical for the Dios Soul Sword, but Dios' own heart was broken back then. She saved him & he couldn't rescue her (or care for himself). Dios' sword is probably as ineffective as all the others, because the soul swords represent the hearts of people who [like Anthy] are closed off. Everyone's in the game for selfish reasons...except for Utena in those final moments.

She's been stabbed in the back by the very person she was trying to rescue. Anthy [still wearing her armor] perhaps fears that Utena will be the one to open the door. Perhaps it's another of Anthy's tests. What friend could still persist after being literally stabbed in the back? Yet, Utena shows Anthy [and likewise Akio] what a true prince would do for her. A prince would persist, would tear down all the defenses just to reach the true nature lying hidden away.

Perhaps in the end Anthy retains the power of Dios in herself. Akio clearly doesn't have it. He's still deceiving himself about everything. While Utena may have become the prince (and gone off to rescue princesses round the world) she voices doubt about her success at saving Anthy. In the end, Anthy has to save herself. Utena shows her acceptance, but Anthy must ultimately choose to leave on her own. She must, in a way, rescue herself. Perhaps she retains the power of revolution, and carries part of it with her as she leaves Ohtori for good? Hard to say.

Last edited by StarlightArcher (01-15-2009 01:59:22 PM)


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#20 | Back to Top01-15-2009 08:56:38 PM

End of the Tour
Ballgoer
From: The Nowhere Islands
Registered: 09-11-2008
Posts: 143

Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

Wow.  I have absolutely nothing to add, StarlightArcher, because you seem to have absolutely nailed the whole "in truth, we're all trapped in our coffins" thing.  Congrats.


Sometimes life is about making difficult sandwiches.

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#21 | Back to Top01-17-2009 02:15:37 AM

Soukougnan
Black Rosarian
From: home. sort of.
Registered: 01-02-2009
Posts: 373

Re: "Power of Dios that slumbers within me"

End of the Tour wrote:

Wow.  I have absolutely nothing to add...

ditto. this should be formed into sections and put up into the analysis part of the website.
school-eng101


what-- where did i go?

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