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Gougai! Gougai!

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, IT'S NOT BAD ENOUGH WE'RE GETTING AN UTENA EXHIBITION RIGHT NOW

THEY. ARE. MAKING. A. NEW. MUSICAL. NEXT. YEAR. START LOSING YOUR SHIT RIGHT NOW

#1 | Back to Top02-26-2008 12:26:46 PM

Duelist Megu
Ruthless Deflorist
From: Calgary, AB
Registered: 12-07-2007
Posts: 303
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Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

So, I'm probably the only one who ships these two, from the looks of it, but what do other people think?  Like, the intense blushing by Nanami, reacting to how her protege is growing up, at the end of the Black Rose Tsuwabuki episode, it definitely screamed straight shota pairing to me.  It seems to me like, Nanami might be older but the maturity gap isn't necessarily all that large.  I think it'd certainly be a lot different from some of the more popular Utena pairings, with the experienced manipulators paired up; Nanami might be a manipulator, but not on the level of the big players, and Tsuwabuki reads her like a book.  Anyways, I think it'd be cute.

On that note, I might as well bring this thinly disguised request to the surface.  If anyone knows where some good fic or fanart for this pairing exists, please let me know. ^-^

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#2 | Back to Top02-26-2008 02:38:52 PM

allegoriest
Delicious Duellist
From: Cloudcuckooland
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2506
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Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

I really don't have much to add right now, but I think I week ago, some people here and I were talking about how we liked said pairing.

I can see Nanami coming onto Mitsuru, but he'd totally freak out. Though, with his MUST PLEASE NANAMI streak (HAHAH I first wrote steak D: moo) he'd go along with it, a bit shaken the whole time.


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#3 | Back to Top02-26-2008 02:51:39 PM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
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Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

Duelist Megu, I must admit that I kinda like the Nanami/Mitsuru pairing myself, its far from ideal (Nanami with her Big Brother Complex, Mitsuru a bit young agewise and too submissive) but maybe a few years time. emot-keke


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#4 | Back to Top02-26-2008 03:10:35 PM

Ragnarok
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From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4472
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Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

Duelist Megu wrote:

I think it'd certainly be a lot different from some of the more popular Utena pairings, with the experienced manipulators paired up; Nanami might be a manipulator, but not on the level of the big players, and Tsuwabuki reads her like a book.

Tsuwabuki is easily a better manipulator than Nanami is. There's also indication at the end of the series, especially with him becoming Miki's protégé, that he's far more intelligent than a ten year old boy ought to be. He's also a dangerous personality, he arranged for Nanami to become attached to him by purposefully putting her life in danger so that he could 'save' her. It's possibly that's a childlike innocence...

Mitsuru has huge potential, in a few years time all he really needs to do is assert himself as the dominant side of the relationship and Nanami would be his for the taking. I don't know if that would be a good thing or not.


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#5 | Back to Top02-26-2008 04:56:32 PM

Duelist Megu
Ruthless Deflorist
From: Calgary, AB
Registered: 12-07-2007
Posts: 303
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Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

allegoriest wrote:

I really don't have much to add right now, but I think I week ago, some people here and I were talking about how we liked said pairing.

I can see Nanami coming onto Mitsuru, but he'd totally freak out. Though, with his MUST PLEASE NANAMI streak (HAHAH I first wrote steak D: moo) he'd go along with it, a bit shaken the whole time.

Seriously?  How come search function reveals nothin' of said discussion?  Bah, internets.

I'd actually find it easier to see Nanami as the pursued uke here; slowly warms up to him following her around and wakes up to her own feelings as he continues to do her bidding.

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#6 | Back to Top02-26-2008 08:16:06 PM

allegoriest
Delicious Duellist
From: Cloudcuckooland
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2506
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Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

It was in chat, not on said boards.


I can kinda see that happening too, but I don't think that Mitsuru would really jeopardize his relationship with Nanami.


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#7 | Back to Top02-26-2008 11:56:43 PM

ShatteredMirror
Yaoi Pet #1
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 8858

Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

I think at the point that they're at in the series, he needs her too much to assert himself. I can see him growing up to be like Touga though, if things were to go properly.


Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source.

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#8 | Back to Top03-04-2008 04:20:45 PM

Anthiena
Egghead
From: ...the space between your ears
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 1107

Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

ShatteredMirror wrote:

I think at the point that they're at in the series, he needs her too much to assert himself. I can see him growing up to be like Touga though, if things were to go properly.

....in a good way or a bad way? I could see him being crazier than dub Saionji if shit goes down the tubes.


I stopped seeking to be sought after. That wasn't being true to myself.
I want to become someone who can exercise power. I want to become a prince. - Ikuni

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#9 | Back to Top09-24-2008 12:14:12 PM

sharnii
Pharaoh of Phanstuff
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: 08-10-2008
Posts: 2416
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Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

ShatteredMirror wrote: I think at the point that they're at in the series, he needs her too much to assert himself. I can see him growing up to be like Touga though, if things were to go properly.

Anthiena wrote:
....in a good way or a bad way? I could see him being crazier than dub Saionji if shit goes down the tubes.

lol to "crazier than dub Saionji" emot-rofl

Since I'm playing Mitsuru in the Ohtori roleplaying thread, I've now given this question some thought.
I didn't think about it much before, I admit. emot-redface

I think they have good potential as a couple a few years down the track.
Nanami does seem to blushingly "respond" to Tsuwabuki after his black rose duels. She likes the idea of a guy going to all lengths for her, even the dark side. And she does originally make him her "boyfriend" - if he hadn't been so young and er usable, he was just the kind of protective prince she was looking for...modeled on Touga.

Sure sure he's a crazy stalker type too (but aww, in such a cute way at his young age! emot-tongue), but then Nanami is quite the crazy stalker type herself in alllllll sortsa situations. And Mitsuru seems to have an excellent understanding of Nanami's psychology. I'm sure he could manipulate her in style, all for her own good and their future marital bliss of course.

So yeah. A couple years. Let Mitsuru grow up. Let him realize what kissing is all about. I think he'd definitely realize he's smitten with Nanami and do everything (and I mean everything) to get her to eat his banana so he can be satisfied. (to verrrry loosely quote the show...)
See see! Here he is as an oddly proportioned erm 16 year old: school-devil

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2631/adultmisuru2zr3.jpg http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2747/adultmisuru4bh4.jpg

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/963/adultmisuru3nm1.jpg
Nanami: "But Mitsuru-kun...why don't you grow your hair long and luscious like all the other men I admire?"
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/7595/adultmisuruwh7.jpg
Nanami: "What broad shoulders you have! I mean...seriously broad! Erm..do you wear shoulder pads?"

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#10 | Back to Top09-24-2008 01:20:44 PM

Nanami's Rose Groom
Rose Assignee
From: Czluchow, Northern Poland
Registered: 04-07-2007
Posts: 1717
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Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

Emmm.. I always liked the idea of that pairing. And I'm not even sure, if Mitsuru didn't take the advantage of the situation in The Black Rose Arc, if ya know what I mean emot-smile


"Get back to the surface, where the sunlight is so dazzling"

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#11 | Back to Top09-24-2008 10:59:26 PM

Duelist Megu
Ruthless Deflorist
From: Calgary, AB
Registered: 12-07-2007
Posts: 303
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Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

Nanami's Rose Groom wrote:

Emmm.. I always liked the idea of that pairing. And I'm not even sure, if Mitsuru didn't take the advantage of the situation in The Black Rose Arc, if ya know what I mean emot-smile

It's definitely something I've considered, but from her actions later I'm inclined to think he didn't.  Unfortunate, perhaps.school-devil

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#12 | Back to Top09-24-2008 11:12:26 PM

OnlyInThisLight
KING OF ALL DUCKS
Registered: 01-15-2008
Posts: 4411

Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

As far as analysis goes, I think Nanami definetly doesn't consider Mitsuru in a sexual sense.  Nanami doesn't like to be around men who she sees as sexually threatening, save for her brother, but that's only because she is in great denial that he is.  This is why she gets along so well with innocent Miki.  Nanami doesn't want to be around anything that reminds her of her own blossoming womanhood, because she falsey assumes that women cannot be princesses, only girls can, due to the behavior she sees so many 'dirty' girls exhibit around her brother, and how they are treated in turn.  She spends most of the series trying to remain a child, by throwing tantrums and seeking attention.

So maybe there is something between Nanami and Mitsuru, but it will have to wait and see how the newer Touga-free Nanami handles an older Mitsuru.  Mostly, it's like Gio says, in that Nanami really does use Mitsuru as means to end not just in the way of trivial chores, but in that he is something of hers that sets her apart, a sign of how amazing she is without her brother, but does not make her appear as a woman and threaten her relationship with her brother, because Mitsuru, it seems, does what he does for Nanami because part of him likes her and part of him desires to be like Touga --a fact that also depresses Nanami, because this means that he is, in fact, not entirely her own.  Nanami however, by said point in the series, is not willing to admit that she wants Mitsuru because he makes her feel special, because that would be admitting that she is not entirely happy with the way things work between her and her brother.  She's not ready to openly desire or think about her own identity and independance.

Last edited by OnlyInThisLight (09-24-2008 11:13:03 PM)

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#13 | Back to Top09-25-2008 01:00:45 AM

Nanami's Rose Groom
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From: Czluchow, Northern Poland
Registered: 04-07-2007
Posts: 1717
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Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

Okay, but this is as far as Nanami's point of view is taken into consideration. I've watched lately episode 18, trying to definitely find out if something took place between the two, and I take it as a very probable possibility.

First: Why actually did Mitsuru take the soulswords? And when it happened? We can see, that Mitsuru's black rose is taken just in the moment, when Nanami shows, that she actually does care about him in some way.
But hello...
It's not ebough for a boy who starts to discover his deeper feelings towards Nanami. He doesn't want to be liked "just the way he is right now". He wants to be an equal adult to her, which means a possible relationship.

Second: Confession in the elevator. Mitsuru says, that just being with Nanami isn't enough for him anymore. So what can he mean by that? I guess something deeper and darker, than usual. Remember, that his drive to duel was to become an adult. And what is usually considered as a proof of adulthood by young people? Sex, of course (this is implied in the Shadow Play)

Of course this is just my opinion, I might be mistaken, but I guess, that something took place. Good Mitsuru school-devil


"Get back to the surface, where the sunlight is so dazzling"

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#14 | Back to Top09-25-2008 06:52:07 AM

Giovanna
Ends of the Forum
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8731
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Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

Nanami's Rose Groom wrote:

It's not ebough for a boy who starts to discover his deeper feelings towards Nanami. He doesn't want to be liked "just the way he is right now". He wants to be an equal adult to her, which means a possible relationship.

Second: Confession in the elevator. Mitsuru says, that just being with Nanami isn't enough for him anymore. So what can he mean by that? I guess something deeper and darker, than usual. Remember, that his drive to duel was to become an adult. And what is usually considered as a proof of adulthood by young people? Sex, of course (this is implied in the Shadow Play)

I think he wants to be a bit more than an equal adult to her. Don't forget, he looks up to Touga's position in regards to Nanami. He doesn't admire Touga as a person, it's the position he wants, with Nanami, no one's slave, simpering and pawing and grinding against his leg. He makes the same mistake she does in that he's sexualizing something that shouldn't be sexualized. The difference is if you tell Nanami 'You want to fuck your brother' she whines in your car and then tries to cut up Utena because you're WRONG. Tell Tsuwabuki that and he's like 'I'm gonna be an adult so I can POUND THAT ASS.'

He's ambitious, you have to give him that. He wants to prove his manhood on the absolute toughest target in the school. Well, maybe save for Juri. emot-tongue


Also, do thou wear thine suits and cuffs, be thee male or no, for such attire doth please my girl parts. - Gios 3:15
Chiefest of Calamities

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#15 | Back to Top09-25-2008 08:49:16 AM

Stormcrow
Magical Flying Moron
From: Los Angeles
Registered: 04-24-2007
Posts: 5971
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Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

OnlyInThisLight wrote:

As far as analysis goes, I think Nanami definetly doesn't consider Mitsuru in a sexual sense.  Nanami doesn't like to be around men who she sees as sexually threatening, save for her brother, but that's only because she is in great denial that he is.  This is why she gets along so well with innocent Miki.  Nanami doesn't want to be around anything that reminds her of her own blossoming womanhood, because she falsey assumes that women cannot be princesses, only girls can, due to the behavior she sees so many 'dirty' girls exhibit around her brother, and how they are treated in turn.  She spends most of the series trying to remain a child, by throwing tantrums and seeking attention.

nnnh...that totally sums up Nanami's Touga thing in a way that I didn't fully grasp before. It's cogent, lucid, and well-thought out. I'm more than a little impressed. Maybe slightly aroused too...nice work there, OITL!

EDIT: Oh yeah, NanamixMitsuru. Like Sharnii says, they could work several years after the show, but I think it far more likely that he'll become a little brother figure to her. This may be a source of great frustration to him. If he's persistent enough, he may even be able to hook up with her, but I'm talking 10-15 years after the show, after she's looked around a bit.

Last edited by Stormcrow (09-25-2008 08:51:24 AM)


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#16 | Back to Top09-25-2008 11:28:08 AM

Anthiena
Egghead
From: ...the space between your ears
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 1107

Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

Highly agreed. Oddly though, I could see in a couple years Nanami hooking up with Saionji. Ass-pull, I know, but....

One thing I do not see at all is Nanami and Miki. A shared neurosis is not good grounds for a relationship. Ask anyone who goes to NA or AA.


I stopped seeking to be sought after. That wasn't being true to myself.
I want to become someone who can exercise power. I want to become a prince. - Ikuni

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#17 | Back to Top09-25-2008 11:58:37 AM

sharnii
Pharaoh of Phanstuff
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: 08-10-2008
Posts: 2416
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Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

Gio wrote: The difference is if you tell Nanami 'You want to fuck your brother' she whines in your car and then tries to cut up Utena because you're WRONG. Tell Tsuwabuki that and he's like 'I'm gonna be an adult so I can POUND THAT ASS.'

Lol emot-rofl
Nicely put!

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#18 | Back to Top09-25-2008 01:09:48 PM

Riri-kins
World's End
From: Cloud Nine
Registered: 09-22-2008
Posts: 2346

Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

I like them together once he matures. Although the only way she'd surrender completely to him is if Touga died in a car accident or something and she slept with him for comfort. In that case, I'd think he'd actually have the more emotional attachment and couldn't pull away even though he knew he was only a warm body. However, in time I think Nanami would fall for him. etc-love


Proud Saionji and Mikage fangirl
My Utena fanfiction: http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2000115/Riri-kins

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#19 | Back to Top11-12-2008 08:33:55 PM

Twisted
Juri Jeerer
From: Canada
Registered: 10-23-2008
Posts: 46

Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

Nanami/Mitsuru is a great pairing in my mind^^ and as for this 'In a few years thing', not so much. I think people tend to forget that yes, Mitsuru is only 10, but Nanami is only 13! Three years isn't that much of a gap, its just for some magical reason in the Utena-verse girls get the bodies of fully developed females at 13 (Not that I really mind) I say when puberty hits Mitsuru full on (Around 12) and he starts to notice other girls and not just Nanami, thats what it's going to take for her to start really notice him that way. Just as soon as she's not the center of his world, the way she likes it. As for them even doing anything sexual in that theater during Black rose, I don't see it going farther then a kiss, which knowing Nanami would still be a big deal to her.


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#20 | Back to Top11-13-2008 12:38:16 AM

Nanami's Rose Groom
Rose Assignee
From: Czluchow, Northern Poland
Registered: 04-07-2007
Posts: 1717
Website

Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

And what about the scene, where Mitsuru pulls the swords from her chest? Afterwards we see a short pic of a rose with some dew on it. If this isn't a pointer that something happened between them, when she was unconscious, I don't know what it is, then emot-tongue


"Get back to the surface, where the sunlight is so dazzling"

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#21 | Back to Top11-13-2008 09:07:34 AM

Bluesky
Chpn Dlst
From: Your window
Registered: 10-25-2008
Posts: 1939
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Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

My libido hurts at the thought of this pairing, and not in a good way emot-frown


/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\

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#22 | Back to Top11-14-2008 02:42:32 PM

Hiraku
Easter Elf #40
From: Singapore
Registered: 02-21-2007
Posts: 6340
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Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

Miss Bluesky wrote:

My libido hurts at the thought of this pairing, and not in a good way emot-frown

At least she liked it. She called it child's play afterwards, though, or something along that line.

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#23 | Back to Top04-18-2009 09:34:28 PM

YostinAust
Pathtracer
From: Tallahassee, Florida
Registered: 04-02-2009
Posts: 352

Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

These two were made for each other, like a quirky filler episode version of Utena and Anthy


"In this age, the mere example of non-conformity, the mere refusal to bend the knee to custom, is itself a service"
     - John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

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#24 | Back to Top08-20-2011 12:55:39 PM

Riri-kins
World's End
From: Cloud Nine
Registered: 09-22-2008
Posts: 2346

Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

Does anybody else think that the writers were worried that NanaSuru would be the most controversial couple?
We didn't get to see Nanami spend the night in his dorm in episode thirty-one and the ending of his Black Rose episode is very ambiguous.


Proud Saionji and Mikage fangirl
My Utena fanfiction: http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2000115/Riri-kins

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#25 | Back to Top08-20-2011 02:23:04 PM

Louchan
Rose Bride
Registered: 11-08-2006
Posts: 100

Re: Tsuwabuki and Nanami: An Underdiscussed Pairing

I can't say I ever cared much for this pairing. Nanami has obviously never seen Tsuwabuki as anything more than a lackey. One that she came to care for, sure, but still a lackey. And as for Tsuwabuki, the sole reason why he became so obsessed about Nanami was because of Touga, who he thought looked so cool when saving Nanami that he wanted to become like him. The closest I can ever see their bond developing to would be that of a little brother/big sister relationship. Quite ironic considering how Tsuwabuki wishes to become something similar to a big brother to Nanami.
As for the blush scene, I always had the impression that after Tsuwabuki's duel, something matured inside of him. Something small but still very significant for his future growth. Nanami caught a glimpse of that which, even if just for a brief moment, made Tsuwabuki suddenly look more mature in her eyes, hence the blush.

Riri-kins wrote:

Does anybody else think that the writers were worried that NanaSuru would be the most controversial couple?
We didn't get to see Nanami spend the night in his dorm in episode thirty-one and the ending of his Black Rose episode is very ambiguous.

They didn't spend the night in his dorm. You're forgetting Akio's cock block. emot-tongue

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