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#1 | Back to Top10-29-2006 05:00:02 PM

Ger
Rose Smilee
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 139
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Akio and the choice of victor

In one of the Ruka/Juri/Shiori threads (good lord we have like 3 of them now. I've created a monster) someone brought up the point that Akio orchestrated Juri's duel so that Utena would win.

I don't disagree with that, but I have always wondered....why Utena? What did she have that the others don't? If we theorize that all these duels are designed simply to build up Utena to Akio's vision of the victor, then one could make the argument that Anthy's supposed "like" of Utena and their "friendship" are merely a farce - that she helps Utena when she's in a tight spot simply because that's Akio's plan.

However, every so often, we get a glimpse of Anthy's true self, and that true self REALLY wants Utena to be the one to win. How else would you explain Touga's second duel, when the tear rolls down her face? That then leads me to wonder why Akio would want Utena to win, if Anthy is supposed to not have any will of her own and to be following Akio's every command? Someone Anthy wants to win would immediately disqualify as someone Akio wants, wouldn't it? The vision of Dios coming down from the castle isn't all Akio, either, because he is shocked when that happens the first time.

(I'm confusing myself here)

I think at some point Akio decided that Utena was "it" and began orchestrating the duels in her favor. But what was that point, and why did he decide that? That's in part why Ruka's duel confuses me. If Akio sent Ruka in purely to make sure that Juri would lose, and orchestrated the cutting of the locket, didn't he underestimate Ruka's determination? The cutting of the locket was exactly what saved Juri, and I just don't buy the idea that Akio and Ruka both wanted the same thing out of that duel. That's not very Akio-like...at least in my opinion. Maybe someone can explain this to me so it makes sense XD

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#2 | Back to Top10-29-2006 05:30:44 PM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6018
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Re: Akio and the choice of victor

I think the real problem is that people don't give Utena enough credit for being something other than just a girl. The show hammers it home at the end of the series, with Anthy saying she's unable to be a Prince, but didn't she get up and save the Princess in the only way possible afterward? Anthy was so far gone that there was only one possible way to show to her that she could be saved, and that was to 'die' for her. That's not something that just anyone would have done, put in the same situation.

Utena has a power of her own, whether that's the spirit of Dios guiding her or the capability of loving someone purely and selflessly. At some point that has to interfere with Akio's plans, because it's completely counter to his goal, whatever you believe that to be. The unfortunate thing for him is that this capability that's so dangerous to his plans is the very thing he needs in order to carry them out.

In the specific case of Juri's duel, let me offer you three different explanations. These are the only people that could have affected the breaking of the locket at that particular moment. First, it could very well have been Akio who orchestrated the broken locket. He needed Utena to win, and once Juri had been through that duel, I really don't think he cared about her. This is why I can't see Akio as evil; I think it's very much within his character to just allow her locket to break and let her travel her path to healing without interfering. He just wouldn't care, keeping the 'miracle' theme going because it makes a nice, tidy ending so that he doesn't have to worry about Juri coming back into his plans at all.

Secondly, it could have been Utena. For whatever reason you choose, spirit of Dios guiding her or unconscious realization of the locket's importance, she may have broken it purposefully. Consciously or not, that is something Utena would choose to do. This one is pretty flimsy, but if you're assuming Dios's guidance, it works.

Thirdly, Anthy. Anthy may very well have given the sword that little extra nudge it needed to break the locket. Why? She wants Utena to win for her own purposes, and for Akio's. It's something she would have no conflict about, as it falls in line with what she wants as well as what Akio wants. In this case Juri and Ruka are secondary, but since she realizes the end is coming, she may have allowed Juri a miracle in order to keep her out of the duels, the same as Akio. It would be a little more compassionate, and more in line with what Utena would want-- hence the broken locket rather than something that might compromise her Prince's spirit, like finding a dead body stuffed in the fountain the next day. emot-biggrin

I can't say as I'm stuck on any of these theories, so if anyone can come up with a better one, go for it!


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#3 | Back to Top10-29-2006 05:43:42 PM

Rosemary Bats
Mikage Mistruster
From: Gloucester, Massachusetts, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Posts: 62

Re: Akio and the choice of victor

I think I brought that up...not sure, though. Anyway, more of my haphazard theories! school-sherlock

I think Akio picked her from the beginning. Orchestrated her parent's death, had the church "accidentally" set out three coffins (what are the odds of that being a true accident at the funeral of a married couple?) appeared as Dios to tell the tale, show her how Anthy suffered (Anthy appearing as a child, which she probably wasn't at that point), and give her the ring. She had just suffered the loss of her parents, and the only thing that could wake her up from her suffering was "to see something eternal." When she saw Anthy's eternal suffering, she snapped out of it, and THAT is when the wheels picked up their own momentum: she swore to be Anthy's prince and save her. Later in life, even if she didn't remember quite WHY, she remembered that she wanted to be a prince, because she made that decision at a psychologically crucial point in time. He could have done this to hundreds of children before: driving them to the point of mental exhaustion and then showing them something so profoundly HORRIBLE that it would remain imprinted on them forever, even if they weren't quite aware of it, the buried memory having subtle effects on their choices and goals.

The gathering of the other duelists was to provide challenges for Akio's "golden goose" to strengthen her "self" and come to care more for Anthy, drawing her closer and closer to the duel Revolution. He looked, found children who each had their own issues and each had a heartfelt wish, and then showed them the castle, saying in a roundabout way that THIS would bring them their desire, if only they achieved victory in the duels. And so all of them, except perhaps Touga, sadly and honestly thought they had a chance to win, unknowing Akio had merely seen them as the perfect adversaries/"obstacles" to overcome.

At the beginning, I'm sure Anthy knew Utena was a pawn and just went along, and that it was indeed a farce for a short time. But when she saw Utena fighting Touga when there was virtually no hope--and when she "could die"--she was reminded of Dios, and began to actually form her OWN feelings and opinions surrounding Utena. Just as Utena was carefully manipulated down the spiral of duels until the very end, Anthy found herself becoming more and more unfettered as time passed and she didn't know what to do--her conflict with Akio when he asks "What do you think of her?" and she tries to dodge it by saying "what do you mean, what do I think of her?" and then draws attention to the teacup Akio breaks illustrates this confusion. Should I continue to serve with and for the brother I have been with forever, or trust this new girl who says she wants to be my friend and fights for me--not the power I promise, like the others, but for me?

With Ruka, it just so happened he wanted to "set Jury free" and was willing to bargain. Since Akio had to intervene on Utena's behalf in Jury's first duel, there's a chance he would need to do so again...and here's his chance not only to do so, but to get someone else to sacrifice themselves in a pact as well, and Akio had no reason to tell Ruka he didn't need to give his life to cut the locket. What a neat little deal for him, eh? We know the planetarium projector's ability to pull illusions over the eyes of people runs on sacrificial death as if it were "fossil fuels": Nemuro compares the death of the 100 boys to the death of dinosaurs in this way to Tokiko before she slaps him.

That's it for now. school-eng101


WARNING: Rabid fangirl and well of useless trivia; wielder of endless random theories; pervy fancier of all things Anthy and/or Chigusa.
-I have the honor of playing Tenjou Utena on LJ's wonderful UTENA_RPG.-

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#4 | Back to Top10-29-2006 06:07:41 PM

Ger
Rose Smilee
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 139
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Re: Akio and the choice of victor

Rosemary Bats wrote:

I think Akio picked her from the beginning. Orchestrated her parent's death, had the church "accidentally" set out three coffins (what are the odds of that being a true accident at the funeral of a married couple?) appeared as Dios to tell the tale, show her how Anthy suffered (Anthy appearing as a child, which she probably wasn't at that point), and give her the ring. She had just suffered the loss of her parents, and the only thing that could wake her up from her suffering was "to see something eternal." When she saw Anthy's eternal suffering, she snapped out of it, and THAT is when the wheels picked up their own momentum: she swore to be Anthy's prince and save her.

That actually then makes a lot of sense to me. I never quite understood the "something eternal" that Dios/Akio showed her and how it related to Touga and Saionji's discovery of her in the coffin.

Rosemary Bats wrote:

Since Akio had to intervene on Utena's behalf in Jury's first duel, there's a chance he would need to do so again...and here's his chance not only to do so, but to get someone else to sacrifice themselves in a pact as well, and Akio had no reason to tell Ruka he didn't need to give his life to cut the locket. What a neat little deal for him, eh?

Hmm I don't agree there, if only because I'm such a big Ruka fan and I don't really think Ruka was in it for the living. I think Ruka knew he was going to die anyway, whether he dueled or didn't duel, whether Juri won or didn't win. I think in that sense, what Akio offered to him was sort of a "why not?" deal. He could die in a hospital bed dreaming about what could have been, or he could spend his last days doing something about it. I do believe that Akio thought Ruka would have gone ahead and tried to get Juri for himself. Maybe that's what he thought would happen after the locket broke (if you take the theory that he did orchestrate the breaking of the locket) - that Ruka would immediately step in and "claim" Juri for himself. I think the fact that he didn't is Ruka's way of breaking free of Akio's game, maybe? A microcosm look at what would eventually happen with Anthy and Utena - just as Utena freed Anthy and let her stay free.

Yasha wrote:

Utena has a power of her own, whether that's the spirit of Dios guiding her or the capability of loving someone purely and selflessly. At some point that has to interfere with Akio's plans, because it's completely counter to his goal, whatever you believe that to be. The unfortunate thing for him is that this capability that's so dangerous to his plans is the very thing he needs in order to carry them out.

There was a thread in which the topic of how very naive and young Utena really is is brought up (can't quite remember which one that was), but it's precisely that naivety that allows her to keep on loving purely and selflessly, isn't it? Throughout the show, she appears blind to a lot of the problems which plague the rest of her classmates, but being the person that she is, if she had actually been aware of all these problems, they would have bogged her down. We see how she attempts to insert herself into other people's quarrels - telling Juri she should make up with Shiori, trying to help Kozue and Miki - and I think if she'd known the depths of all these people's troubles, she would have run herself into the ground trying to fix them and, in the end, become just as Dios did.

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#5 | Back to Top10-29-2006 06:27:32 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: Akio and the choice of victor

Rosemary Bats wrote:

I think Akio picked her from the beginning. . . . At the beginning, I'm sure Anthy knew Utena was a pawn and just went along, and that it was indeed a farce for a short time. But when she saw Utena fighting Touga when there was virtually no hope--and when she "could die"--she was reminded of Dios, and began to actually form her OWN feelings and opinions surrounding Utena. . .

Hm?  Okay, so Anthy called out to Utena during Miki's first duel and threw the duel.  That was clearly Akio's doing.  But in Touga's second duel?  Was Anthy's sudden epiphany, leading to Utena's victory, also Akio's doing?  Either Akio has a much more subtle control over Anthy than the series suggests, or he's willing to let Utena lose here.  I think it's the latter.  I am sure Akio orchestrated the deaths of Mr. and Mrs. Tenjou so he could have a champion to groom, but that doesn't mean the first season isn't a test to see just how devoted Utena is to being Anthy's prince -- and there is no duel that tests that devotion better than her second with Touga.  No way would Akio interfere with this one.  If Utena is not unshakeably devoted to Anthy, heart and soul, her soulsword will not be the sword of a prince, and revolution will fail.  Yasha said it best:

Yasha wrote:

Utena has a power of her own, whether that's the spirit of Dios guiding her or the capability of loving someone purely and selflessly. At some point that has to interfere with Akio's plans, because it's completely counter to his goal, whatever you believe that to be. The unfortunate thing for him is that this capability that's so dangerous to his plans is the very thing he needs in order to carry them out.

Well said!  Possibly the best and most succinct explanation of the role of the Champion Duelist I've ever heard.

By the third season I think Akio has made up his mind that Utena is the one, and I don't doubt that he used Ruka and the locket to rig the duel with Juri.  But her duel with Touga, at least, was honest.

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#6 | Back to Top10-29-2006 06:38:00 PM

Rosemary Bats
Mikage Mistruster
From: Gloucester, Massachusetts, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Posts: 62

Re: Akio and the choice of victor

satyreyes wrote:

Rosemary Bats wrote:

I think Akio picked her from the beginning. . . . At the beginning, I'm sure Anthy knew Utena was a pawn and just went along, and that it was indeed a farce for a short time. But when she saw Utena fighting Touga when there was virtually no hope--and when she "could die"--she was reminded of Dios, and began to actually form her OWN feelings and opinions surrounding Utena. . .

Hm?  Okay, so Anthy called out to Utena during Miki's first duel and threw the duel.  That was clearly Akio's doing.  But in Touga's second duel?  Was Anthy's sudden epiphany, leading to Utena's victory, also Akio's doing?  Either Akio has a much more subtle control over Anthy than the series suggests, or he's willing to let Utena lose here.  I think it's the latter.  I am sure Akio orchestrated the deaths of Mr. and Mrs. Tenjou so he could have a champion to groom, but that doesn't mean the first season isn't a test to see just how devoted Utena is to being Anthy's prince -- and there is no duel that tests that devotion better than her second with Touga.  No way would Akio interfere with this one.  If Utena is not unshakeably devoted to Anthy, heart and soul, her soulsword will not be the sword of a prince, and revolution will fail.  Yasha said it best:

Yasha wrote:

Utena has a power of her own, whether that's the spirit of Dios guiding her or the capability of loving someone purely and selflessly. At some point that has to interfere with Akio's plans, because it's completely counter to his goal, whatever you believe that to be. The unfortunate thing for him is that this capability that's so dangerous to his plans is the very thing he needs in order to carry them out.

Well said!  Possibly the best and most succinct explanation of the role of the Champion Duelist I've ever heard.

By the third season I think Akio has made up his mind that Utena is the one, and I don't doubt that he used Ruka and the locket to rig the duel with Juri.  But her duel with Touga, at least, was honest.

No, about the Anthy's "epiphany" thing, I WAS saying it was her, and NOT Akio, who caused the feeling during Touga's second duel. I never said Akio made Anthy feel that way: in fact, I said Anthy's tear for Utena was the turning point at which what was "Anthy" at that point began to unravel and jumble up, because SHE didn't just see Utena as a pawn anymore. Up until THAT POINT, I believe was mostly farce, which is what I was TRYING to say in my theory...and which I thought I had said clearly. I never said "Anthy saw her as a pawn for the entire first season." I said she did at the "beginning." Not at the turning point. The beginning. And the other duels, with "Conviction" and "Self" as the only exceptions, WERE all set obstacles with set outcomes, including the first-arc duels, the black rose duels, and the final duels.

Last edited by Rosemary Bats (10-29-2006 06:40:26 PM)


WARNING: Rabid fangirl and well of useless trivia; wielder of endless random theories; pervy fancier of all things Anthy and/or Chigusa.
-I have the honor of playing Tenjou Utena on LJ's wonderful UTENA_RPG.-

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#7 | Back to Top10-29-2006 07:32:16 PM

Ragnarok
Caption Captor
From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4472
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Re: Akio and the choice of victor

I think it can be said that Akio as well as Anthy doesn't see Utena as 'the one' until after the duel of Self. Up until that point Akio has been fairly hands off, just orchestrating events behind the scenes through his letters to the council. After Utena defeats Touga (The following episode, in fact) Akio shows up in person for the first time to review Utena's progress thus far.

So while both Akio and Anthy at that point start to really look at who Utena is, they are doing it for slightly different reasons. Akio sees her as an instrument to gain the power of Dios. To Anthy, Utena is now a stand-in for Dios, although one she does not fully have faith in. (Incidentally it can be argued she doesn't have full faith in Dios himself.) As the series progresses this minute difference in view grows ever larger, with Anthy moving further away from Akio's agenda without ever become disloyal to him.

So back to Ruka and Juri! The motivation for the characters as I see it are as follows:

Akio: Wants Utena to win to continue her advancement towards the duel Revolution.

Anthy: Wants Utena to win for the above reason as well as having a genuine attachment to Utena this late in the game.

Ruka: Wants Juri to be free of her Shiori fixation regardless of the cost to himself or pretty much anyone else.

Utena: Simply trying to win the latest duel, aware of the basic events leading to this involving Ruka, Shiori and Juri but mostly in the dark as to specifics.

Juri: I still feel Juri isn't in this duel one hundred percent, mentally. The emotional termoil she's recently gone through besides, she was coerced to duel by Ruka, not for her own ends. She says she'd rather free Shiori of Ruka (Thus, although unsaid, indicating she wants Shiori to be happy even if Juri herself cannot be.) She doesn't desire the power of miracles for her own ends, thus when she loses the locket she immediatly forfeits. As was said in another thread, Juri is more dueling herself than Utena.

Dios: His participation in the duels can be interpreted any number of ways, whether he has a will of his own or not is questionable. Personally I view his involvement as in support of Utena's current actions.

Then we take into account Ruka's speach during the car ride, about how miracles can only be attained by the sacrifice of others, and how Shiori was willing to step on other people to advance herself. The sacrifice in this case is Ruka's own life, putting his goals foremost in mind. His means of this trade off is Akio whose own goals neither mesh completely with Ruka's nor work counter productively against it. The method through with the miracle occurs is logically the Utena/Dios lunge which results in the shattering of the locket. In that view the wishes of both duelists as well as Anthy are not taken into account and their actions are not consciously needed for this miracle to occur.

I've gone on more than long enough at this point, but the other thing I feel worth noting is Juri's first duel. We already have a thread about the similarities between both duels and the end of both are close as well. In the first duel Juri's skill beats Utena with ease until, miraculously, the sword of Dios severs Juri's rose. I've looked at that ending as being the will of Dios, though it can also lend credence to either Akio or Anthy's manipulation.


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#8 | Back to Top10-29-2006 08:57:21 PM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 588

Re: Akio and the choice of victor

Perhaps Anthy wanted Utena to win duels not because she wanted Utena to become the Final Victor but because she wanted Utena to hang around and be her friend. Anthy may have thought that a menage-a-trois was all for everybody's best.

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#9 | Back to Top10-29-2006 09:13:31 PM

Rosemary Bats
Mikage Mistruster
From: Gloucester, Massachusetts, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Posts: 62

Re: Akio and the choice of victor

Ragnarok wrote:

As was said in another thread, Juri is more dueling herself than Utena.

Whee! Everytime someone quotes me, a moronic middleschooler snorts pixie stix! I think that's better than angels getting their wings. Screw them.

Anyway, yeah, onto analasys of Akio's chosen pawns. The seitokai are the perfect pawns: so wrapped up in their internal struggles that they either honestly, truly believe they have a shot at solving them through some power, or merely want to believe that, which can be enough in some cases; either way, their single-mindedness over what they want or need makes them the ideal obstacles.

Jury's intentions change many times throughout the show, in many different ways, but they all revolve somehow around Shiori. Whether her miracle is disproving miracles, letting her true self be known, being able to tell Shiori her true feelings, having Shiori reciprocate those feelings, or freeing Shiori from Ruka...as much as those differ, they all begin and end with Shiori. Jury has been spurned by Shiori as both friend and (unknown to Shiori) lover: quite brutal, considering Shiori tells Utena that they grew up together and were "practically like sisters," and only for the reason that Shiori is jealous of Jury. Jury is the classic "woman scorned" in this tale, and her bitterness covers her like a sheet of ice, to the extent that the student body call her "the beautful panther" and the administration is afraid of her. The reason why Jury's goal is never really about her is partly because she knows nothing, not even a miracle, could make Shiori love her, but mostly because of the rut she's in. She's miserable, but after awhile of being steeped in misery, it's all you know and it becomes easier and less painful to exist that way than to give up your failed fantasies and evolve beyond them. Jury WANTS to win, desperately, and at the same time DOESN'T, because winning would mean a forced change in the world and in herself, and she is afraid, and too accustomed to misery, to change now; even more, it would also force her to admit that miracles are real, which would also be admitting that she has not, and will probably never, receive one, and her illusion that someday Shiori and herself might reconcile without stirring up the past would be shattered. She lies to herself, and as I've said before, is fighting herself rather than Utena in the duels.

Miki seems to be the easiest duelist to interpret: he wants to live in an eternity of his childhood, the childhood he's idealized in hindsight, and falling for Anthy when she seems like how Kozue "used to be" is part of that. He doesn't trust adults, because he knows that when something's "for your own good" it's usually for THEIR own good, and part of him is afraid to grow up: even his fantasies of Anthy are almost entirely chaste ones, because he clings to the purity of his youth.

Saionji says he loves Anthy, and he believes he does, 100%; but he sees her as a way to get into the castle, about which Anthy mentioned "something eternal dwells in there." He wants eternity, or more to the point, an eternal friendship. When Touga didn't make it clear that he hadn't shown the girl in the coffin something eternal, Saionji thought that he HAD...and why would Touga share eternity with a random girl and not his 'best friend?' That's when he began to mistrust Touga, and harbor jealousy concerning everything Touga surpassed him in. Obviously Touga wasn't really his best friend, if he couldn't share that eternal thing with him...and if Touga couldn't be trusted, his only friend, then neither could anyone else. He makes himself believe he loves Anthy, but all he wants is to be the one to show her eternity, so that Touga can't show it to THIS girl, like he did before...and then Saionji will have beaten him, in his own mind.

Touga, as I said above, in not telling Saionji, broke Saionji's trust, and Touga could see that. He probably started all his power games in the same way he accidentally started that one: with simple ambiguity. Eventually, seeing what results could come from manipulation, he developed a lust for power, specifically power over people. That's why he can serve Akio knowing he has a set agenda, which none of the other duelists would be able to: because Akio wieldspower, and Touga is drawn to it, gets high off it almost. He even begins to try imitating Akio (the motorcycle to rival Akio's car), and thinks he can achieve his wish this way, until near the very end, when he realizes what will happen and tries to spare Utena.

People have trouble figuring out Nanami's desire, but in truth, she's very much like Wakaba in that way: she wants to be SPECIAL. It's apparent, from her childhood memories, that her parents favored Touga, but Touga was kind to her and treated her warmly. This was probably the only real source of love she got as a child, and as she grew, it stemmed into the feeling that if Touga's eyes drifted anywhere else, she would be forgotten. This fear led to all of her hurtful schemes to keep women away from Touga, and when Touga gave her the rose crest, she jumped into it full-force, getting a new uniform, weapons and all...because she thought that her brother wanted her to, and that she'd be able to keep people away from him this way. When Nanami is led to believe she and Touga aren't really blood siblings, her world crashes down around her: without Touga's attention and familial ties, she'd be like any other face in the crowd, just another annoying girl flitting about Touga, which is what she really fears. She realizes this in the Akio car, and also realizes what she wants. What she wants is power, but not in the way Touga does: she merely wants to be able to stand out ON HER OWN and be her own person, and be adored for being Nanami rather than 'Touga's little sister.' When she loses her second duel, she actually voices this aloud to Utena (or perhaps just to herself):

"Tell me, what's left for me now? Am I just another fly in the swarm? Anything but that...!" And she begins to cry.

I'm not going to analyze Ruka further here, because we all have, and to death. But when you look at each duelist from their shoes...they seem less like menacing opponents with mean streaks and more like confused, sad little kids biting and spitting at each other because they don't know any other way. Which is how, I'm sure, Akio must view them, and why it is so easy for him to move them like chess pieces without their noticing.

Last edited by Rosemary Bats (10-29-2006 11:25:31 PM)


WARNING: Rabid fangirl and well of useless trivia; wielder of endless random theories; pervy fancier of all things Anthy and/or Chigusa.
-I have the honor of playing Tenjou Utena on LJ's wonderful UTENA_RPG.-

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#10 | Back to Top10-30-2006 12:07:23 AM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: Akio and the choice of victor

Rosemary Bats wrote:

No, about the Anthy's "epiphany" thing, I WAS saying it was her, and NOT Akio, who caused the feeling during Touga's second duel. I never said Akio made Anthy feel that way: in fact, I said Anthy's tear for Utena was the turning point at which what was "Anthy" at that point began to unravel and jumble up, because SHE didn't just see Utena as a pawn anymore. Up until THAT POINT, I believe was mostly farce, which is what I was TRYING to say in my theory...and which I thought I had said clearly. I never said "Anthy saw her as a pawn for the entire first season." I said she did at the "beginning." Not at the turning point. The beginning. And the other duels, with "Conviction" and "Self" as the only exceptions, WERE all set obstacles with set outcomes, including the first-arc duels, the black rose duels, and the final duels.

Wow, I'm really sorry!  It sounds like I really made you angry.  I think maybe it sounded like I misunderstood your original point, which I don't think I did.  To clarify, I was basically trying to say almost the exact thing Ragnarok said below:

Ragnarok wrote:

I think it can be said that Akio as well as Anthy doesn't see Utena as 'the one' until after the duel of Self.

I seriously doubt that Akio manipulated Anthy into feeling the way she does about Utena, and I'd be shocked to see evidence otherwise emot-smile  I included that possibility as an alternative to the statement that Akio didn't yet regard Utena as proven at the time of her second duel with Touga.  You said "Akio picked her from the beginning;" I was just trying to point out that if Akio didn't intervene at this critical moment of the duel, Akio must not have picked her for sure until after the duel.

Again, I'm really sorry I offended you so much.  Only good thoughts here emot-smile

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#11 | Back to Top12-27-2009 11:08:27 AM

oldboy
Miki Molester
Registered: 12-20-2009
Posts: 38

Re: Akio and the choice of victor

Yasha wrote:

Utena has a power of her own, whether that's the spirit of Dios guiding her or the capability of loving someone purely and selflessly. At some point that has to interfere with Akio's plans, because it's completely counter to his goal, whatever you believe that to be. The unfortunate thing for him is that this capability that's so dangerous to his plans is the very thing he needs in order to carry them out.

I always thought Utena's strength came from her ability to love selflessly in spite of her tragedy, to turn what happened to her into something good. She cares about other people. Yes, she's also selfish and na´ve. But if she wasn't, she wouldn't be as interesting.

Deep down, she seems to want the unconditional love which she lost when her parents died. That's why Akio is so successful in seducing her. He takes control of situations because he "admires" her. She had to be emotionally self-reliant from a very young age. I'm sure the "prince" act is partly a defense mechanism, a way to convince herself she doesn't need to be protected. When someone offers her a relief from this total self-reliance, a relief she didn't even know she needed--and she has no reason to resist, except maybe a vague gut feeling. Akio has no problem taking her and absolutely crushing her dream beneath his heel--you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette. (ho ho ho!)

My guess is that the closer a duelist seems to be getting towards revolutionizing the world, the closer Akio will get to them. Perhaps he had Touga picked out as the next sacrifice. Perhaps, as the series continues and the game escalates, he takes the others in a ride on the Akio car because he can't manipulate them as well from a distance.

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